Broke down after driving through flood

Enygma

I drove through a small flooded road today, couldn't have been more than 5-6 inches deep and about 10-15 foot long. I've managed to drive through it a few times over the last few days.
Unfortunately someone on the opposite side of the road decided to drive through too . Almost immediately after coming out of the flooded area my car jerked and then carried on for a little bit and then just switched off.

I managed to get towed home but the car won't start. The car is a Golf TDI, anyone know what kind of damage I'm looking at? Is this sort of thing serious?

Thanks

Gary ITR

One of the lads I work with was driving a TDI caddy and drove through a puddle, same thing happened, van just jerked to a stop. The van was written off. It was a 2002 and this happened last year

Enygma

ugh, now I feel sick, only just got the car

mike65

Does the engine have a low air intake scoop? If its got up there and literally flooded the engine then its pooped I'd say.

Mike.

Gary ITR

mike65 wrote:

Does the engine have a low air intake scoop? If its got up there and literally flooded the engine then its pooped I'd say.

Mike.

Thats what happened the caddy. I hope this isn't the case with you Enygma:(

crosstownk

If the engine ingested air then you've a major problem. And, tbh, its the most likely scenario given you went through a flood.

Essentially your engine has taken in water instead of air - and this can write off an engine.

Enygma

****!

maidhc

Friend did the same to his Avensis TD. Same story, engine mangled beyond economical repair.

Ciaran500

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CERdMwrewgw

bazz26

Something similar happened to a friend at work recently. The car started stalling just after she came out of a flooded road. She managed to pull over to the hard shoulder before it gave up. She had the car toed home and was left over night. Luckily for her the next day when she got into it the car started first time.

It might not have had the same damage done as your car though.

sudzs

Bloody hell!

Are there any make/models in particular that are more prone to being killed by a 6 inch puddle???

c - 13

My cars been chugging a bit after hitting floodwater over the last few weeks, high revs but no real "pull" from the car, 99 Polo Saloon, it usually starts fine in the mornings though. I'm worried about going into floodwater now :eek:

joejoem

sudzs wrote:

Bloody hell!

Are there any make/models in particular that are more prone to being killed by a 6 inch puddle???

And what should you do if you have a massive puddle in front of you and a big line of traffic behind you!!!!

ciarsd

Diesel engines tend to have a much lower air intake behind front bumper, hence the problem with flooded roads and dead engines

I pulled in to help a lad not so long back after he drove through a flooded road - he was in a petrol engined car but had an aftermarket intake which repositioned the intake a little lower than standard - it was enough to break the conrods and write off the engine, such was the damage.

Hope your news is better.

layke

Well this thread is very negative.

Look mate i've seen Petrol cars filled with diesel and still ran ok.

You may be lucky.

saobh_ie

You have to be kidding, surely he would have just filled the airbox with water as a worst case.

Never would have thought cars would be so vunerable to a little water. I think I'll stick to the bike when the country starts flooding again.

Hagar

Get yourself one of these babies http://www.mantec.co.uk/index.cfm?param=Products/category.cfm&category=1

Rovi

With a bit of luck, it could be just that the engine management stuff got wet and has shut itself down to protect everything, or a small splash got into the air intake and has messed up the air filter and/or whatever electrical gubbins are in there.

On the other hand, if it sucked water into the engine itself, there could be terminal damage done
If the starter is able to spin it and it's not making any unusual noises, things are looking hopeful, but it'll still need to be looked at by a mechanic (or similar).

Pull the dipstick and see if there is water in the sump, you'll know by it being overfull and the fact that water and oil don't easily mix. It doesn't sound like the engine ran for long enough to emulsify the oil/water mix into thick grey sludge.

The best case scenario is that something just needs to be dried out or at worst, replaced.
Worst case is if the engine got hydraulically locked (water in the cylinders) and trashed itself.

Enygma

Well I spoke to my mechanic this morning and he reckons there shouldn't be too much damage, he thinks it should be able to start with jump leads.

Is the air intake the funnel from the turbo into the engine? If so then that's at the top of the engine. It really was no more than a big puddle.

I'll let ye know what the story is after lunch anyway. Fingers crossed.

Rabies

Hagar wrote:

Get yourself one of these babies http://www.mantec.co.uk/index.cfm?param=Products/category.cfm&category=1

Snip that link before the boy racers see it, could make them go faster and with more noise.... Vrooooom

Rovi

Enygma wrote:

Is the air intake the funnel from the turbo into the engine?

No.
The air intake is the place where air begins its journey into the innards of the machinery.
Follow the pipes away from the engine/turbo back through the air filter and various other things (air mass meter, etc) to where you come to an open end exposed to the open air. That's the air intake.
That's where water can get sucked in, if it's low enough and the water's deep enough.

ciarsd

Fingers crossed Enygma.

With regards to previous posts about engines standing up to a simple puddle, from reading your descriptiong of how it happened, I suspect that the actual damage was caused not by 'the simple puddle' but more than likely by the wave effect created by oncoming car through the same flood - filling your air intake in the process.

Some motorists have no courtesy when it comes to floods...

mloc123

layke wrote:

Well this thread is very negative.

Look mate i've seen Petrol cars filled with diesel and still ran ok.

You may be lucky.

Completely different situation. The reason water will destroy an engine is....

The water is sucked in the chambers and is then compressed, unlike air it can not be compressed to the same extent and will stop the piston from moving all the way up. As the piston tries to complete its cycle something has to give and it's usually the conrod that will break or the chamber wall will crack.

MercMad

.........I doubt you will get good news, I'd be very surprised.

Petrol cars have lower compression engines, so there is less of a "vacuum" effect in the intake manifold. You could put your hand over the air intake on a petrol car and stall the engine, whereas with a diesel you could say goodbye to your arm !!

The ignitions ystem on a petrol car tends to drown out if hit with a quantity of water whereas witha diesel there is not ignition system so it will keep running !

The only thing positive I can add is that I am not familiar with this particular engine, but as with most modern diesels there is a certain amount of electrics/ecu's and hopefully it was this that was drowned before water was consumed!

Best of luck !

SouperComputer

Look mate i've seen Petrol cars filled with diesel and still ran ok.

This comment has no bearing on the situation of the OP.

If diesel is put in a petrol cars tank, it comes in, metered carefully through the injection system or carburation system.

Not in a gush of high pressure past the turbo, the inlet manifold, past the valves, fills the cylinders , then try to compress it and BANG! Bent conrods, damaged valves and cams, blown headsaskets and warped heads. In short, not good.

If the engine swallowed the same amount of diesel through the intake, the same damage would result.

At the OP, hopfully the engine stalled and there is no damage, fingers crossed.

Enygma

Well the jump leads didn't work but I wasn't holding out too much hope for that. The mechanic can't make it until friday night so I'll have to wait till then for any news. He seems to think it should be ok though.

is there any way I can tell if the engine is totalled? Wouldn't there have been a loud noise or anything? There wasn't any noise. Is there anything I can look at to check it out myself?

Thanks!

Rovi

Enygma wrote:

Well the jump leads didn't work but I wasn't holding out too much hope for that. The mechanic can't make it until friday night so I'll have to wait till then for any news. He seems to think it should be ok though.

is there any way I can tell if the engine is totalled? Wouldn't there have been a loud noise or anything? There wasn't any noise. Is there anything I can look at to check it out myself?

Thanks!

Have you pulled the dipstick to see if there's water in the sump?
If you can get into the air filter, to see if there's water in there too.
These are both bad things

Does the engine spin on the starter?

Enygma

I've checked the dipstick and it didn't look like there was any water.

The engine doesn't spin on the starter, there's a clunk sound and then nothing.

any ideas where the air filter is on the TDI?

Thanks

Rovi

Enygma wrote:

I've checked the dipstick and it didn't look like there was any water.

The engine doesn't spin on the starter, there's a clunk sound and then nothing.

any ideas where the air filter is on the TDI?

Thanks

Assuming a good battery and starter motor and the 'clunk' isn't just the starter making a feeble attempt to engage (check starter motor electrical conections too), it sounds like water got into the cylinders all right.

All may not be lost though.
If the engine wasn't revving too hard at the time (ie. ticking over or thereabouts), it might have gotten away with just stalling out without doing any mechanical damage.
The first thing I'd do is pull the injectors (or the heater plugs if fitted, possibly) and spin the engine on the starter to blow the water out of the cylinders.
If water comes out, it had to get in there through the turbo and intercooler (if fitted), so they'll want to be looked at too.
If it all looks okay, great. Button it up and try starting it again, it's probably fine. Then change the oil and fit a fresh air filter of course.


If it still won't spin with the cylinders open to the atmosphere, and assuming (again!) that the battery and starter motor are in good order, it'd be looking more and more like there's something broken/bent in there.

With a bit of luck, it won't be that bad. Fingers crossed.

Enygma

Thanks for the advice, is it possible to get a second hand engine for these? any idea what kind of price you're talking about?

SouperComputer

Sounds like its water locked. Water has entered the cylinders and the engine cannot turn over as it cant compress the water.

The quesion is did the water do any damage before the engine stopped. Hopfully not.

ciarsd

Either way I would not be attempting to start / turn over the car until you've had it looked at by someone who's qualified to do so.
There is a slight possibility that the damage has not been done (if the car shut down before the water got near the internals). However, all it needs is an attempt to turn it over and bang, there goes a conrod, a bent valve, a cylinder cracked and the like :eek:

wyndham

What about when they tried to drown the Toyota Hilux on TopGear? Didn't it start after the tide went out?

peasant

wyndham wrote:

What about when they tried to drown the Toyota Hilux on TopGear? Didn't it start after the tide went out?

Just dip your head into the full bathtub there for a minute or so ...you'll come up perfectly alright, albeit probably gasping for air.

Now try gasping for air under water

Spot the difference?

Gary ITR

peasant wrote:

Just dip your head into the full bathtub there for a minute or so ...you'll come up perfectly alright, albeit probably gasping for air.

Now try gasping for air under water

Spot the difference?

lol:D

JHMEG

wyndham wrote:

What about when they tried to drown the Toyota Hilux on TopGear? Didn't it start after the tide went out?

It did, but they didn't try start it when it was *in* water.

(and it's a Toyota )

AMurphy

Enygma wrote:

I drove through a small flooded road today, couldn't have been more than 5-6 inches deep and about 10-15 foot long. I've managed to drive through it a few times over the last few days.
Unfortunately someone on the opposite side of the road decided to drive through too . Almost immediately after coming out of the flooded area my car jerked and then carried on for a little bit and then just switched off.

I managed to get towed home but the car won't start. The car is a Golf TDI, anyone know what kind of damage I'm looking at? Is this sort of thing serious?

Thanks

If you can turn it over it is not liquid locked, and if it does not turn over because of liquid, you have two choices, rotate the engine backwards to get the liquid back out the intake or remove the injectors/plugs and let eh liquid out there.
And hope the liquid did not rust the valves and seats while sitting there.

Liquid lock is usually associated with internal banging, even if not destructive.

Assuming it is not locked. you might have a very wet filter which will stop air, you coudl have flooded/destroyed the air sensor (assuming this has an MAF sensor).
Anyway, first things first. New filter and dry out the intake.
Unplug the MAF sensor and see if it will run open circuit.

Enygma

Thanks, the mechanic said he'll take a look at it today, said he'll inspect the air filter. I should know before lunchtime.

But I'm not very hopeful now

MercMad

What about when they tried to drown the Toyota Hilux on TopGear? Didn't it start after the tide went out?

............yeas but only after they removed the glow plugs and spun the engine over. I recall Jeremy explained that briefly !

Enygma

Well took it to a diesel mechanic and he's gonna take a look at it. He said the con-rods are probably bent so he'll replace them and see if it's ok. If the crank-shaft is bent then I'm really ****ed. but he said chances are it should be ok.

Still looking at a few thousand though.

crosstownk

If you went through a puddle, and assuming this is obvious to a mechanic, you may be able to claim on your insurance if you are fully comp. It is, after all, accidental damage. Worth investigating, imo.

Gary ITR

Any update on this Enygma?

Enygma

It's been down at a mechanics since thursday but he hasn't been able to look at it until probably today. He said he'd ring tuesday or wednesday with a verdict and a price (probably around 2K)

He's saying that if water got into the engine then the conrods are probably bent so he'll check it out and replace them if necessary. Only then will he know if the crank shaft is bent but he said that was unlikely and that he'd never seen it. If it is, I'm totally screwed. Fingers crossed!

If I hear anything I'll post it up.

gaillimhabu

Hi Guys,

Same thing happened to me last night. I drove through a flooded road. Wasn't really that deep. Car got sluggish after driving through it. Was home in two minutes and car wasn't idling when stopped. It was kinda churning over and car was shaking a bit.

Tried to start this morning. No luck. It was turning over allright but wouldn't start.

Is it bad for me to try to start it. Will I just do more damage to the engine this way. What is my next best step. Bring it to garage I suppose

Car is a 93 1.4 Golf CL (petrol)

mloc123

Petrol car is different. The electics are probably just wet, let it dry out and it should start up fine again. If the coil-pack/dizzy and sparkplugs/leeds are damp the car will miss-fire and stall.

franksm

mloc123 wrote:

Petrol car is different. The electics are probably just wet, let it dry out and it should start up fine again. If the coil-pack/dizzy and sparkplugs/leeds are damp the car will miss-fire and stall.

Continue to drive it like that and it will destroy the cat (which can be expensive). Get yourself an aerosol of WD40 and spray the ignition leads, the distributor and anything else electrical under the bonnet. WD40 is great stuff

layke

layke wrote:

Well this thread is very negative.

Look mate i've seen Petrol cars filled with diesel and still ran ok.

You may be lucky.

Best case its some electrics.

But if a substantial amount of water made it past the air filter into the cylinder heads good bye engine for certain.

Theres no better way to destroy an engine.

http://www.prepsparkplugs.com/hydrofact.htm

Enygma

Well mines ****ed anyway, he said there was damage to the crank and whats worse the block was cracked too. Looking at around 5K+ to fix it

Well she was fun for the two weeks I had her

MercMad

Thats really tough luck at anytime of the year especially this time !

You could claim from your insurance or buy a second hand engine !

Enygma

Any idea where I can get a second hand engine? And how much?

Thanks!

crosstownk

A second hand engine may sound like a good idea - but how do you know you're not inheriting someone elses old problems - be careful.

That said I've seen plenty of second hand engines fitted without much reliability issues.