Advanced Kicks

FootWork

Hi there,

Could someone help me out? I currently kickbox a few times a week but want to start training in other forms of martial arts. What I really want to focus on is more advanced kicks. I was told by someone that taekwondo would be my best bet. Would anyone know if this is so, or could they suggest something else. I am looking to train somewhere in the City Centre.

Thanks

yomchi

FootWork wrote:

Hi there,

Could someone help me out? I currently kickbox a few times a week but want to start training in other forms of martial arts. What I really want to focus on is more advanced kicks. I was told by someone that taekwondo would be my best bet. Would anyone know if this is so, or could they suggest something else. I am looking to train somewhere in the City Centre.

Thanks

Question, are you looking to learn 'advanced' kicks to support your kickboxing?

Or are you looking to learn them just to know them and be happy you can do them?

If the answer to the first question is yes, well then I would suggest you reconsider. By advanced kicks are you refering to jumping spinning kicks 180 degrees and 360 degrees etc?

pma-ire

Jon wrote:

Question, are you looking to learn 'advanced' kicks to support your kickboxing?

Or are you looking to learn them just to know them and be happy you can do them?

If the answer to the first question is yes, well then I would suggest you reconsider. By advanced kicks are you refering to jumping spinning kicks 180 degrees and 360 degrees etc?

have to agree with Jon here!

semi-contact kickboxing has much of the same kicks as much of TKD sparring comps.

just go find someone to cross train with (outside a class fomat) to learn these extra kicks you want to perform. as a class may bore the head off you as tkd don't really don advanced kicks until at least a year in usually?

Unpossible

WTF tae kwon do people seem to always be doing fancy kicks (in the videos Ive seen anyway), so I guess they would be good for learning them, on the down side they spar with their hands by their side so it wont really help you in kickboxing

By advanced kicks are you refering to jumping spinning kicks 180 degrees and 360 degrees etc?

Im also curious as to what kicks you consider advanced

EDIT

just go find someone to cross train with (outside a class fomat) to learn these extra kicks you want to perform. as a class may bore the head off you as tkd don't really don advanced kicks until at least a year in usually?

actually this sounds like a better idea

FootWork

Hey,

Thanks for getting back so quickly lads. Yeah, I'd want it to improve my kickboxing skills, so if they spar with hands down by their sides I reckon that wouldn't make sense cause I don't want to pick up any bad habits.

Yeah I want start doing some difficult 360 degree kicks and do harder combinations of kicks, but I suppose you're rite pma-ire, if you have a good knowledge of kicks anyway, I may as well just train myself, yeah?

I'm just trying to improve my overall technique and I have only ever done kickboxing. I also want to get into boxing to focus on the boxing end of my training.

Colm_OReilly

What's the aim of your training? Why do you want to learn advanced kicks, i.e. what's your definition of advanced?

If it's more effective in striking then Muay Thai kicks are very simple, but very powerful. Depending on what type of kickboxing (it's a vague enough term) you're doing will have an impact on what you want out of them.

If it's more flashy, difficult display kicks, TKD schools could help, but you'd need to know which associations/clubs this is best for.

pma-ire

FootWork wrote:

Hey,

Thanks for getting back so quickly lads. Yeah, I'd want it to improve my kickboxing skills, so if they spar with hands down by their sides I reckon that wouldn't make sense cause I don't want to pick up any bad habits.

Yeah I want start doing some difficult 360 degree kicks and do harder combinations of kicks, but I suppose you're rite pma-ire, if you have a good knowledge of kicks anyway, I may as well just train myself, yeah?

I'm just trying to improve my overall technique and I have only ever done kickboxing. I also want to get into boxing to focus on the boxing end of my training.

hook up with jon there if your near him?

maybe he knows of a sparring session thats run near you that you may be able to get in on??

you will learn much more from a person at sessions like that than in a class situation

Unpossible

where are you based footwork? The lads here might be able to point you in the right direction

Millionaire

Hi Footwork

I did kickboxing (full contact) for years (4h dan black belt), and what I suggest is you have all the tools at your feet already. You should be able to improve your punches and kicks within kickboxing, without going to TKD for kicks, and a boxing club for boxing.

Start shadow boxing your kicks yourself in your own time and work from there. when you can fire off combos like roundhouse, hookick, roundhouse, with one leg without touching the ground to head height and no loosing the balance, and land back in stance, you will be well on your way.

When you can work that example I gave you into a vigorous sparring session and hit your opponent with it, you will be doing very well.

Same for punches, work them youself, get on the bag, or someone to do pads for you and you will improve.

what club are you kickboxing in?

FootWork

Thanks pma-ire. I really appreciate it.

Jon where r u based? Do you teach kickboxing or boxing. As it is I spar a few times a week so would love to spar in some other clubs.

yomchi

Thanks for the plug Paul

However.. I don't teach these 'advanced' kicks in class. Simply because they are not functional in a sparring context. Some nights when we have time we might do some drills doing tornado kicks, twin directional kicks, twin front kicks etc etc but I do them for fun and for the work out.

Any good TKD sparrer or kickboxer will have a handful simple functional kicks that they use to good effect. Some of the best in the world will have no more than 4 maybe 5 kicks max that they will use in a match. For example 'Superfoot' Bill Wallace only ever used 3 kicks, and they were all off his left leg.
The most functional being, the turning kick (round kick), side kick, front kick, back side kick and axe kick. All these can be used effectively in offensive and defensive (counter) techniques.

To the OP, your best bet for competition sparring is to pick a handful of functional kicks that you are comfortable with and drill them to unconcious competence and then figure them into your fight plan.
Keep it simple!

If you want to learn fancy aero dynamic kicking for the sake of it, drop down some evening when we have some time on our hands and we'll do some for the craic!



Afterwards we'llplay football and use myself as the cross bar!

God dam ego getting the better of me again

yomchi

FootWork wrote:

Thanks pma-ire. I really appreciate it.

Jon where r u based? Do you teach kickboxing or boxing. As it is I spar a few times a week so would love to spar in some other clubs.

Based in Cabra, we are essentially a Taekwon-Do club. However we train for Kickboxing comps (ring fights) also. We are also a part of the WKA Ireland light contact branch of the IUTF.

What type of kickboxing do you do? If you give me your stats I can organise some spar's for you, I have a working relationship with a handful of full contact and light contact Kick boxing clubs in the city centre.
What type of experience have you? weight, age etc?

Unpossible

Some of the best in the world will have no more than 4 maybe 5 kicks max that they will use in a match.

its all in the combos, just have more than one combo and keep the guy guessing least thats what Im told*

I have to avoid my opponent grabbing my leg and throwing me if he sees the kick comming

Millionaire

if I was to fight a kickboxing ring fight again , I would be trading all my kickboxing kicks I did for years, for the Thai Round House, and Push Kick. ;-)

pma-ire

Jon wrote:

hmmm!

very useful against two guys coming against you with there hands folded

Jon wrote:

God dam ego getting the better of me again

hanging around with them saki drinkers too much man

pma-ire

Millionaire wrote:

if I was to fight a kickboxing ring fight again , I would be trading all my kickboxing kicks I did for years, for the Thai Round House, and Push Kick. ;-)

thats pretty much all the kicks i do now when sparring!

though i throw in some of the other ones so that my students see them and won't be throw off by them in a comp.

yomchi

very useful against two guys coming against you with there hands folded

Na its not even useful for that!

Its one of them kicks you do..because you can!

hanging around with them saki drinkers too much man

LOL, im not rich enough for that

kenpo_dave

Jon wrote:

Thanks for the plug Paul

However.. I don't teach these 'advanced' kicks in class. Simply because they are not functional in a sparring context.

The only reason these so called 'advanced' kicks dont work in sparring is because the fighters trying to use them 1. dont have the flexability and agility to do them properly and 2. havent trained them properly. There are plenty of 'advanced' kicks used successfully in Kyokushin competitions (and Im sure in other styles too). Heres a few examples

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5z7xc7sC-k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nX3hjkY2tw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE0wO_wAus8 (Jumping knee to head)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-w407p_Mm8 (K-1. The kick is tried a few times but only works at the end of the clip)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0HXeJyxAoY

I think thats enough.

FootWork

Millionaire I'm living in Dublin 7 at the minute and train in Martial Arts Inc. Love training there but just want to try out other clubs every second week or so. MAI would be my main club. The combo you gave there I can do in the air, I just wouldn't have done it in sparring just yet.

Ha Jon - I'll give the football a miss. You might have to hang around a bit too long in mid air for me to score a goal but nice photo.

Yeah, when I'm sparring I like to throw out a lot of kicks. Roundhouse, side kick, front kick, hook etc are the ones which you can land easier on an opponent as opposed to jumping spinning kicks, but I like to use all of my kicks when sparring otherwise there ain't no point in being able to do them (well that's what I think anyway). When competing though, yeah, the more basic kicks are the ones that are gonna land.

Ok, I'll shadow box, try out my own combos and focus on my technique and balance.

Thanks a million for all your helps lads. Appreciate it big time.

kenpo_dave

Hey Footwork. I train down in East Wall on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Feel free to gives us a visit anytime. We do Kyokushin and Judo. Check out our websites www.mmaireland.com and www.kyokushinbudokai.org

Good Luck,

Dave.

yomchi

kenpo_dave wrote:

The only reason these so called 'advanced' kicks dont work in sparring is because the fighters trying to use them 1. dont have the flexability and agility to do them properly and 2. havent trained them properly. There are plenty of 'advanced' kicks used successfully in Kyokushin competitions (and Im sure in other styles too). Heres a few examples

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5z7xc7sC-k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nX3hjkY2tw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE0wO_wAus8 (Jumping knee to head)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-w407p_Mm8 (K-1. The kick is tried a few times but only works at the end of the clip)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0HXeJyxAoY

I think thats enough.

Hi Dave, from my experience in TKD none of them kicks I would class as advanced. Spinning hook kicks/reverse turning kicks are a favourite in TKD. In fact at the last TKD nationals I stopped my GTI opponent with this kick.

Axe kicks are very common and useful, thats why I had it in my list of functional kicks.
The very first 'wheel kick' was very acrobatic, no doubt.

Your points above, both 1 and 2 are of the same. Also, clips of Kyokoshin are not really relevant to the OP as he studies kick boxing and includes punches to the head. The reason I say this is because like WTF Taekwon-Do it can be much easier to execute such acrobatics kicks when one doesn't have to worry about punches to the head and maintaining a boxing like guard.

But you are correct, individuals will not execute a technique in sparring that they are not familiar with or good at, makes perfect sense!
However, again to use Wallace as an example, he was a very flexible and agile man, he could do anything with his legs. What kept him winning was a small tool box of functional kicks.

Marty Mc

Gerry,

Just 2 ask u a quick question about ur comment about the thai kicks u wuld use in kboxing if u ever returned to it.......

U mention the thai front push kick and round house.......how would u apply these to kboxing fights to your advantage? Is it the added power of getting ur hip through the round house or the advanced power of the front kick that u would use?

Is it simply the added power or is thai a better technique for ring fighting?

Im gabbling i know........but i kbox (full contact) also and would be interested on ur point of view on this as i have a small understanding a working knowledge of thai through MMA training. Another point of view would be appreciated as i too have my thoughts on this subject and have thought about it from time to time in training.

Roper

FootWork wrote:

Millionaire I'm living in Dublin 7 at the minute

Tut tut. Man lives in Dublin 7 and hasn't come to K.O. Martial Arts yet, for shame...:D Seriously, we train kickboxing with an emphasis on MMA so theres lotsa hands and low kicks. If you want to pop down and try a session with us you'd be more than welcome. It might give you a different slant on your training. All experience is benificial, even if its just to say "I'm never doing that again"!

kenpo_dave

Jon wrote:

Hi Dave, from my experience in TKD none of them kicks I would class as advanced. Spinning hook kicks/reverse turning kicks are a favourite in TKD. In fact at the last TKD nationals I stopped my GTI opponent with this kick.

Axe kicks are very common and useful, thats why I had it in my list of functional kicks.
The very first 'wheel kick' was very acrobatic, no doubt.

Your points above, both 1 and 2 are of the same. Also, clips of Kyokoshin are not really relevant to the OP as he studies kick boxing and includes punches to the head. The reason I say this is because like WTF Taekwon-Do it can be much easier to execute such acrobatics kicks when one doesn't have to worry about punches to the head and maintaining a boxing like guard.

But you are correct, individuals will not execute a technique in sparring that they are not familiar with or good at, makes perfect sense!
However, again to use Wallace as an example, he was a very flexible and agile man, he could do anything with his legs. What kept him winning was a small tool box of functional kicks.

Sorry, Im just wrecked after a boozey weekend. The brain isnt working too good. Ye I get your point about Kyokushin not being relevant to the OP. Kyokushin fighters not keeping their guard up is a bad habit IMO. You wont find any of that in Kokoro , also we do punch to the head.
Interesting, what would you consider to be 'advanced' kicks? Personally, I dont think there are any 'advanced' strikes, unless by advanced you mean more complicated technique than the basic straight and roundhouse kicks. I only put the clip of the knee in because I love it. I think its great.

yomchi

Roper wrote:

Tut tut. Man lives in Dublin 7 and hasn't come to K.O. Martial Arts yet, for shame...:D Seriously, we train kickboxing with an emphasis on MMA so theres lotsa hands and low kicks. If you want to pop down and try a session with us you'd be more than welcome. It might give you a different slant on your training. All experience is benificial, even if its just to say "I'm never doing that again"!

Stick to your own post code Roper.. you martial arts whore you!

layke

I would reccomend Tae Kwon Do to a certain degree it's mainly a kicking martial art.

However and this is a big however they don't allow kicking below the belt. So you learn no below belt sweep tecniques.

I was training in shotokan back in the day and every so often we would go to a tourney where and a few TKD clubs had heard about it and entered.

The first thing I do is go straight for his legs, you knock a TKD fighter on his arse and the majority have no idea what to do.

In a fight, you will score 90% of your points with your fists. Fancy tecniques leave you too vunerable imo.

Roper

Ah c'mon Jon nobody wants to do TKD anymore. All that sine waving killed it!:D

yomchi

kenpo_dave wrote:

Sorry, Im just wrecked after a boozey weekend. The brain isnt working too good. Ye I get your point about Kyokushin not being relevant to the OP. Kyokushin fighters not keeping their guard up is a bad habit IMO. You wont find any of that in Kokoro , also we do punch to the head.
Interesting, what would you consider to be 'advanced' kicks? Personally, I dont think there are any 'advanced' strikes, unless by advanced you mean more complicated technique than the basic straight and roundhouse kicks. I only put the clip of the knee in because I love it. I think its great.

I supposse the word 'advanced' is subjective to the user. I think it would be better classing the two types as:

1) Functional (what can be used effectively and simply)

2) Non Functional (kicks that are demo based, or acrobatically designed)

Theortically, you can make any kick functional as long as you train it long enough and test in in sparring. However, functionality is also dictated by surroundings.. our OP - (if he comes back to see what he started ) is governed by a roped ring - im assuming he's FC. Therefore that environment isn't best suited for over the top acrobatic type kicking. Again if he is FC, he should as a matter of course develop kicks that are going to aid his FC fight plan. The objective being to stop your opponent. Keeping it simple in a FC ring is an aid to survival!

I would teach functional kicking drills to my students, one's that are easily learnable and easily accessable under pressure, both in an offensive and defensive manner. Spinning 180 is functional for some counter techniques, spinning 360 demands a lot and isn't functional per se. These kicks you will see in WTF type Taekwon-Do where you are not worried about a guard or missing the target and having your head punched in.

'advanced' kicking really depends on your style and your match rules and surroundings - arena.
Our OP is a kick boxer, which type we will wait and see

yomchi

Roper wrote:

Ah c'mon Jon nobody wants to do TKD anymore. All that sine waving killed it!:D

LOL, and your based in Finglas East.. NOT Glasnevin. (That should shut you down )

FootWork

Ok lads I'm gonna pop down to yez all over the next few weeks and train with all of you. Sorry for not visiting you sooner Roper.....and excuse the ignorance but where is 'K.O. Martial Arts'?

Also, I'm a chick......is that cool?

yomchi

layke wrote:

The first thing I do is go straight for his legs, you knock a TKD fighter on his arse and the majority have no idea what to do.

tut tut tut.. becareful of them generalisations! Out of curiousity what did you learn in Shotokan about grappling?

yomchi

FootWork wrote:

but where is 'K.O. Martial Arts'?

LOL up urs Roper..

Hey foot work, pop down anytime. What kind of Kick boxing are you doing? I've two girls in my place with experience in the ring. If you tell me your stats I'll see if they are suitable.

Roper

Jon wrote:

LOL, and your based in Finglas East.. NOT Glasnevin. (That should shut you down )

Glasnevin West, Glasnevin Weeeeeesssst!!!:D
I'm done for now, no more mothers bringing their children to train with me!

Sorry for not visiting you sooner Roper.....and excuse the ignorance but where is 'K.O. Martial Arts'?

Also, I'm a chick......is that cool?

Theres a map on the website in my signature. Also, someone made a cool google map that I can't find right now but I'll post it when I bother going through the threads. Your chick status is duly noted. We have quite a few female members theres no difference in the way that they train.

Roper

Jon wrote:

LOL up urs Roper..

Ah Jon don't be like that, it wasn't me it was that picture you posted of your kick, too much exposure of your groin. Put me right off my lunch I tells ya!:D

You should pop down for a roll sometime Jon.

yomchi

Roper wrote:

You should pop down for a roll sometime Jon.

COLM!!! Ropers threatening me..again

Seriously, I'd like that very much. At the moment my evenings are pretty full, but I will pop down sometime, if i teach you that kick will you teach me a jumping spinning Kimora?

yomchi

FootWork wrote:

Millionaire I'm living in Dublin 7 at the minute and train in Martial Arts Inc. Love training there but just want to try out other clubs every second week or so. MAI would be my main club. The combo you gave there I can do in the air, I just wouldn't have done it in sparring just yet.

Ha Jon - I'll give the football a miss. You might have to hang around a bit too long in mid air for me to score a goal but nice photo.

Yeah, when I'm sparring I like to throw out a lot of kicks. Roundhouse, side kick, front kick, hook etc are the ones which you can land easier on an opponent as opposed to jumping spinning kicks, but I like to use all of my kicks when sparring otherwise there ain't no point in being able to do them (well that's what I think anyway). When competing though, yeah, the more basic kicks are the ones that are gonna land.

Ok, I'll shadow box, try out my own combos and focus on my technique and balance.

Thanks a million for all your helps lads. Appreciate it big time.

Sorry FW I missed this post completely! You're just down the road from me, I take it you do light contact then?
Pop up anytime and we'll do a kicking class/sparring, see how you get like it.

FootWork

No worries Jon. Yep we would do light / semi-light contact. I'd occasionally ask the lads to go a bit heavier on me though. Hope to see you soon.

Roper

Jon wrote:

COLM!!! Ropers threatening me..again

Seriously, I'd like that very much. At the moment my evenings are pretty full, but I will pop down sometime, if i teach you that kick will you teach me a jumping spinning Kimora?

I have about as much chance of doing that kick... I'm 6'1" when I stand and 4'6" when I jump!:D Sorry but I don't know any jumping kimuras. We have a guy who does some pretty slick guard passes though, based mostly on his ability to flip/cartwheel. One day he'll learn an actual pass and he'll be ruined! Anyway, make it happen, I think you now Keith who trains down with us, pop down with him sometime.

OP, all banter aside, you should try everything and see what you think.

Millionaire

Marty Mc wrote:

Gerry,

Just 2 ask u a quick question about ur comment about the thai kicks u wuld use in kboxing if u ever returned to it.......

U mention the thai front push kick and round house.......how would u apply these to kboxing fights to your advantage? Is it the added power of getting ur hip through the round house or the advanced power of the front kick that u would use?

Is it simply the added power or is thai a better technique for ring fighting?

Im gabbling i know........but i kbox (full contact) also and would be interested on ur point of view on this as i have a small understanding a working knowledge of thai through MMA training. Another point of view would be appreciated as i too have my thoughts on this subject and have thought about it from time to time in training.

Yes thats a very good question.

I feel (have done both types of kicks), that the Thai style kicks....both of them are much more powerful, and have the potential to cause much more damage.

I was quite a decent kicker in Kboxing, and I could fire off the combos of kicks when sparring hard, and make them work. of course I was stretching alot too, and that give me the flexibilty and speed. (the only time I stretch now is when I do yoga class once a week).

I said the thai kicks, I think cause more damage... here is how...

in Kboxing, I could take full whack kicks to my arms when holding my guard up and rarely did they bother me. earlier in the year I was sparring a thai, and he kicked me in the biceps with a shin kick, and numbed my arm so much, I could had hold my guard up.

I find Kboxing kicks a little more "flicky" and your hitting with top of the foot. while in thai, there pretty myuch straight leg, and you drive right through with the shin.

Also in my experience, the Thai way of training with the pad man, pushing you for full power and speed on every kick (see the vid on my signature, I am a bit out of shape, as I was only back after a month sick when I macde this vid). This way of training is way bettter, than how I was trained in kickboxing.

The Thai use their front push kick (teep) with great effect, and can nail you with it so fast, like a boxing jab.

Personally, I used to find in kboxing the Side Kick was not great in fighting as a sharp opponent could see it a mile away. though I also made the Hook Kick to face, and Spinning Back kick work great for me. In fact used to be prety sharp at nailing in coming round house kicks with spinning back kick to body.

These days I cannot kick , Kboxing style at all as good as I used to, but I am very happy to have swaped them for the Thai style.

You ask me how would I employ the thai kicks if fighting kickboxing... very simple... everytime my opponent moved, I would blast him full power and speed with a thai round kick. That would feck up most kickboxers.... I know I was a Kboxer...and looking back, if someone started nailing me with Thai kicks, I would have been well fecked up...and thats just been honest.

Marty Mc

Thanx for that Gerry,

I understand what u mean by flicky kicks but at our club we are encouraged to kick full power driving through the opponent and drilling combo's when using the thai pads.

Of course this aint practical every sparring session as the dangers are evident but come fight time its full steam ahead for the fighters and make use of their full power. At the moment my cardio is getting better but not were i would like it to be and im trying to tighten my defence (elbows out, dropping hands etc..) to employ full power thai kick for the duration of a four rnd spar i would be wrecked and have to employ the 'flicks' to conserve energy.

Spinning back kick is one i have real bother with, just need to prctice is suppose. When im able to employ this when fighting i will know my kicking and confidence have come a long way. I have seen a team mate devastate an opponent with it k.o'ing his opponent and gained the European full contact title.

But anyway, when my 'wind' level is satisfactory i will attempt to use the teep and round house esp, 2 my advantage.

Jimkel

Jon wrote:

tut tut tut.. becareful of them generalisations! Out of curiousity what did you learn in Shotokan about grappling?

Howdy Jon, Not my question but I'm a gonna answer anyway. In Shotokan theres plenty of footsweeps and pushes and trips, in fact every basic move can be followed through with a takedown. But theres no actual grappling. (ie: Wrestling) only the takedown followed by some sort of strike(s),Punch, Axe kick that kind of thing. Originally there where over 200 Throws tought in Shotokan, but Unfortunatly these have been filtered out over the years to make the syllabus easier to digest. They can still be learned though, if a person looks hard enough.

Jimkel

Anyway back to the point, jumping spinning crescent kick, jumping inward crescent kick, jumping spinning reverse side kick , flying "dragon" kick, yadayadayada.

I know guys that can do em all, but power?? probably equal to a good old roundhouse or front kick. If you want to learn something a little "advanced" yet still functional try the Axe kick, reverse roundhouse kick, reverse side kick. But DON'T try to fly in a fight unless you really know what your doing.

yomchi

Jimkel wrote:

Howdy Jon, Not my question but I'm a gonna answer anyway. In Shotokan theres plenty of footsweeps and pushes and trips, in fact every basic move can be followed through with a takedown. But theres no actual grappling. (ie: Wrestling) only the takedown followed by some sort of strike(s),Punch, Axe kick that kind of thing. Originally there where over 200 Throws tought in Shotokan, but Unfortunatly these have been filtered out over the years to make the syllabus easier to digest. They can still be learned though, if a person looks hard enough.

Thanks for that!

stephenwhelan31

Just to pick up on a few points.
As a generalization I would recommend TKD as a martial art for learning "advanced ticks" but from my experience it really is club and trainer specific i.e. if the trainer can't do it then he usually can't show you how. I've trained through out the country Limerick, Dublin & now Cork for years TKD, Karate and kickboxing (grappling too) and in all the clubs there Kicking ability really depended on the ability of the trainer, the competition they were training for, the students general ability and the general ages in class (I know DUH!). But my point is basically its always good to shop around but do it with a wide perspective, be upfront about what your looking for after a few classes\weeks you should get a general idea where the class is heading, is its sport\traditional\flashy(martial art tricks www.bilang.com) \competitive driven or all and generally likes to try it all, was it fun and when you leave most class are you happy with what your learning especially when its hard.

Also just on the hole sweeping thing and most TKD guys landing on there asses. First of all my main thing is TKD 80-90%. I'm afraid in my opinion this is pretty true and for obvious reasons. As a general rule unless we train(TKD) specifically for a kickboxing competition where we know sweeping is allowed then sweeping and defending sweeping is not practiced so we are wide open to it. I noticed this alot at the WKA spain competition TKD guys were getting seriously nailed. From talking to most of the Irish TKD/IUTF lads I was one of the few TKD guys there who knew anything about sweeping (In competitions anyway). From watching all the male Irish fights I'm fairly sure I was the only one who didn't get nailed with a sweep (I'm sure it was at the very least half luck!) but some had to be experience as when I was training in a karate club in Dublin I always kept getting nailed with sweeps until I finally got used to the hole idea.)
So in conclusion its not good to generalize because there's always someone whos the exception and they pass **** on. And trust me, to any TKD guys out there who are worried about learning and getting caught with sweeps, it really should only take half a dozen spars where sweeps are aloud to pick up the defense and another half dozen to do them when your show the right techniques (if your sparring and sport ability are at a good level!).

Also I agree with the Thai kicking (anyone any comments on shin conditioning though because you can't kick Thai style with full power unless you do this lets be honest!?!) comments and especially about the Thai pad work. A lot of Kickboxing/TKD clubs are taking this up though from what I've see, not enough though.

Tim_Murphy

Hi Stephen

As a general rule unless we train(TKD) specifically for a kickboxing competition where we know sweeping is allowed then sweeping and defending sweeping is not practiced so we are wide open to it. I noticed this alot at the WKA spain competition TKD guys were getting seriously nailed.

In the WKAs it's just foot to foot sweeps from the front leg isn't it. When I was competing in these competitions I didn't really find it much of a big deal TBH.

stephenwhelan31

Tim_Murphy wrote:

Hi Stephen



In the WKAs it's just foot to foot sweeps from the front leg isn't it. When I was competing in these competitions I didn't really find it much of a big deal TBH.

Hey Tim,

"Leg to leg foot sweeps" Ya it is. To be honest in most of the matches i saw sweeping wasn't a big thing or that noticeable. But in all the irish fights (to me) it seemed like a big deal, i.e. all the guys got swept and 2 of them got nailed to the mat flat on there backs (with a crushing sound!). I don't think sweeping is that huge a thing but i just think i should be given some/more concideration going into these competitions for TKD guys at least.

Sorry for going off topic with advanced kicks!

p.s. and Tim from seeing you fight and training under you for a year i don't think you found anything to be 2 big a deal in standup fights!

yomchi

p.s. and Tim from seeing you fight and training under you for a year i don't think you found anything to be 2 big a deal in standup fights!

Only his opponents as he's tiny LOL

stephenwhelan31

Jon wrote:

Only his opponents as he's tiny LOL

Sorry,

"2 big a deal in standup fights" .... for his tiny weight category!

yomchi

stephenwhelan31 wrote:

Sorry,

"2 big a deal in standup fights" .... for his tiny weight category!

Millionaire

stephenwhelan31 wrote:

Also I agree with the Thai kicking (anyone any comments on shin conditioning though because you can't kick Thai style with full power unless you do this lets be honest!?!) comments and especially about the Thai pad work. A lot of Kickboxing/TKD clubs are taking this up though from what I've see, not enough though.

if I can kick Thai pads and rock hard thai kick bags full blast....anyone can learn to do this too.

When I was a Kickboxer, I must have had the weakest shins on earth.

Now that I am doing thai....over a few months hard and consistent training, my shins have hardened and I no longer suffer pain, nor brusies, nor reddness.

Now you will hear all this BS about rolling old glass coke bottles, and rolling pins and whacking your legs with bamboo sticks to harden your shins.

I never did any of this...and why would you want to waste good training time doing this.

If you want to harden your shins... kick the Thai pads and kick the hard bags. and you will perfect our speed power and kicks and techniques in the process. Its as simple as that.

If they are brusied apply Thai Oil or Tiger Balm or Deel Heat and leave it a few days and go at it again. Might be a bit sore of the first few months, but you have to pay the price.

I have not to date seen any thais hopping rolling pins nor coke bottles off their shins. :rolleyes:

Unpossible

A lot of Kickboxing/TKD clubs are taking this up though from what I've see, not enough though.

Yeah, I have this problem too. When in china I bought some Thai style pads for training. My coachs seemed interested (although they seemed to think the best thing to do with them is to punch them ). So I thought yes I get to train with these again, I had used them before and think they are great for developing kicks/work-outs. Then we got two new trainers who have decided that all our kicks should be practiced infront of a mirror or by hitting those very thin "flappy" pads that offer no resistance. Now I can see some advantage in doing these two drills, and in the counter technique drills we do, but neither allow us to develop hard fast kicks which I think is important as we are supposed to be fighting full contact.

On saturday myself and the gf were alone in training session so I did the whole class with the pads, you could see the improvement in her sparring by the end of the class. Alas without training it often she will forget it all again.