Smokers getting a rough ride?

Fighting Irish

So the price of smokes is more than likely gonna go up again and also they're banning boxes of 10 smokes........I think us smokers are getting screwed because parents/government can't control the kids these days and stop them from smoking :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: Muck This

Dragan

Just to warn you, expect all sorts of "you ****ing deserve it you smoking scum" and "I hope you ****ing die" from all the anti smoking nazi's about the place. It always happens, the thread breaks down into a big argument and eventually will get locked, my money is Ruu having to sort it out.

L5

Fighting Irish wrote:

So the price of smokes is more than likely gonna go up again and also they're banning boxes of 10 smokes........I think us smokers are getting screwed because parents/government can't control the kids these days and stop them from smoking :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: Muck This

Delighted to hear this, hopefully they'll double the price of them.

super_furry

Can't see the problem with either of those measures. Why would you against banning boxes of 10?

Degag

Fighting Irish wrote:

So the price of smokes is more than likely gonna go up again and also they're banning boxes of 10 smokes........I think us smokers are getting screwed because parents/government can't control the kids these days and stop them from smoking :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: Muck This

I agree with you even though i'm not a smoker. It's unfair to penalise people because more and more kids are smoking. The problem is the culture we live in today. I remember they increased the price of cigerettes fairly drastically a few years ago to try and curb the same problem and look what it did... Nothing! I imagine the result will be the same now. Kids have more money than ever before now.

kizzyr

I am unapologetically anti-smoking and would welcome a move like this by the government. I think the banning of boxes of 10 is long over due and the price of 20 should at the very least be doubled.
There is nothing good about smoking, its a nasty habit that kills and if these are the steps that have to be taken to make more people stop well then let them be taken.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Vex Willems

what about those of us that only smoke ten a day ...going to have to buy twentys now and end up smoking more....

KTRIC

I'll kick this off now....



Hope you f**king die you smoking s#*mbag


Only joking;) , i think people should be let smoke if its not causing any harm to others. Everyone to there own.


But the government might argue that they are putting up the price of a pack of 20 to cover the increasing health care they have to provide to smoking related ailments.

CiaranC

There is nothing good about smoking

Yeah there is. Its enjoyable. I smoked for years and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Nothing like smoking a cuban over an hour or two on the porch on a summer eve.

Have at it Nazis.

johnnyrotten

No!

Archeron

super_furry wrote:

Can't see the problem with either of those measures. Why would you against banning boxes of 10?

IMO any kid who can afford a 10 pack can also afford a 20 pack. Many people use the 10 packs to try and curb what they smoke, so I reckon that all this will serve to do is actually increase how much some people are smoking by making them buy 20 packs.

Anyone who ever brought back millions of ciggies from holidays knows well that if they are there, you will smoke more.

apparently 92% of ciggie purchases are made wihtout any ID being asked for. If they want to tackle something, they should try clamping down on that for a start.

Fighting Irish

Dragan wrote:

Just to warn you, expect all sorts of "you ****ing deserve it you smoking scum" and "I hope you ****ing die" from all the anti smoking nazi's about the place. It always happens, the thread breaks down into a big argument and eventually will get locked, my money is Ruu having to sort it out.

Let people say what they want it doesn't bother me

humanji

Fighting Irish wrote:

So the price of smokes is more than likely gonna go up again and also they're banning boxes of 10 smokes........I think us smokers are getting screwed because parents/government can't control the kids these days and stop them from smoking :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: Muck This

Sure, kids, THAT'S why they're raising the price :rolleyes:

Fighting Irish

super_furry wrote:

Can't see the problem with either of those measures. Why would you against banning boxes of 10?

Personally i wouldn't care because i always get 20 boxes, but i can see how it might be difficult for some people, either way banning them isn't going to prevent anything

Fighting Irish

kizzyr wrote:

I am unapologetically anti-smoking and would welcome a move like this by the government. I think the banning of boxes of 10 is long over due and the price of 20 should at the very least be doubled.
There is nothing good about smoking, its a nasty habit that kills and if these are the steps that have to be taken to make more people stop well then let them be taken.

:rolleyes: why so the government can get more of our money?

everyone knows how bad smoking is but we still do it and 99% of us will still do it when the price goes up

kizzyr

CiaranC wrote:

Yeah there is. Its enjoyable. I smoked for years and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Nothing like smoking a cuban over an hour or two on the porch on a summer eve.

Have at it Nazis.

I'm not a Nazi about it, if you chose to "enjoy" your addiction then that is your perogative. However you will in the long run through your "enjoyable" actions end up costing those who don't smoke a lot more through health care etc. I really think they should be hugely expensive and if they cost enough it will stop people starting in the first place and maybe just maybe make those who are still smoking stop and think about what else they could be spending their money on.

Tabnabs

QuinnyKid wrote:

what about those of us that only smoke ten a day ...going to have to buy twentys now and end up smoking more....

You could just smoke ten today and the other ten tomorrow... :rolleyes:

Dragan

To the people like Kizzyr I would simple say that it's free choice. Just because you don't want to do something yourself does not mean you can force others not to do it. Whatever way you want to look at it smoking is legal in this country, as is drinking. So people are entitled to do both, either as much or as little as they like.

I would simply suggest you get on with your own lives and if you are so interested in health then remove all hydrogenated fats from diet, get your veg in and do your excercises.

Leave people to do what they want to do within the realms of the law.

Fighting Irish

kizzyr wrote:

I'm not a Nazi about it, if you chose to "enjoy" your addiction then that is your perogative. However you will in the long run through your "enjoyable" actions end up costing those who don't smoke a lot more through health care etc. I really think they should be hugely expensive and if they cost enough it will stop people starting in the first place and maybe just maybe make those who are still smoking stop and think about what else they could be spending their money on.

If the government were so worried about us they would ban smokes altogether! All they want is more money, simple as.

6th

QuinnyKid wrote:

what about those of us that only smoke ten a day ...going to have to buy twentys now and end up smoking more....

You have them so you have to smoke them? ... Just like Fatties and their cakes.

Fighting Irish

6th wrote:

You have them so you have to smoke them? ... Just like Fatties and their cakes.

you can buy a 20 pack of cakes? :eek: where?




I agree with what you're saying, if i have only a couple smokes on me and i've no chance to buy anymore i can make them last ages, but if i've a full 20 box in front of me i'll light up whenever i feel like it, about every half hour if i'm bored

CathyMoran

I agree with anti smoking measures. I know that it is a lot easier to avoid being with someone when they are smoking now but passive smoke is still a problem in some places. I worry about the health of smokers, it is not good for them.

CiaranC

6th wrote:

You have them so you have to smoke them? ... Just like Fatties and their cakes.

Well yeah, its an addiction...

kizzyr

Dragan wrote:

To the people like Kizzyr I would simple say that it's free choice. Just because you don't want to do something yourself does not mean you can force others not to do it. Whatever way you want to look at it smoking is legal in this country, as is drinking. So people are entitled to do both, either as much or as little as they like.

I would simply suggest you get on with your own lives and if you are so interested in health then remove all hydrogenated fats from diet, get your veg in and do your excercises.

Leave people to do what they want to do within the realms of the law.[/QUOTE]
To be fair (to me:) ) I do. If you want to smoke and suffer all of the horrible horrible things that go with it then you do that. I'm not someone who goes around preaching at people about their smoking most of those who smoke are intellient enough to know that they are slowly killing themselves by doing it. BTW I do eat my veg and get my exercises in regularly.

Dragan

kizzyr wrote:

I'm not a Nazi about it, if you chose to "enjoy" your addiction then that is your perogative. However you will in the long run through your "enjoyable" actions end up costing those who don't smoke a lot more through health care etc. I really think they should be hugely expensive and if they cost enough it will stop people starting in the first place and maybe just maybe make those who are still smoking stop and think about what else they could be spending their money on.

Oh come on there fella, the two biggest earners for the government coffers are taxes on booze and smokes!!! The simply fact is that without them our economy would be a pretty pale shade of what it is now.

I would also like to point out that in this unfortunate world people who do not smoke or drink also need health care for various reasons, so the whole "you smoke means I pay for health care" should really be applied to them too. Only it would be "you got sick and I pay for your health care"…..but if you can say that then your really just a plank!!!! I imagine the taxes paid by a lifetime smoker on the ciggarettes he/she buys more than cover the cost of his health care?

The simple fact is you pay your taxes and they go where they go. I don't drive, nor have I ever owned a car, and yet many of the euros I pay in my tax have built the M50. I have no kids, and yet many of the euros I pay into the government coffers go to single parents and on child benefits.

It just the way of it, you work in this country and your taxes go where they go.

Sleepy

You know, I might quit if they raise the tax again. Not because they'd be costing me more, purely because I don't think I could bear watching the fvcktards waste any more of my taxes.

J.R.HARTLEY

as long as they maintain the ban on smoking in pubs then leave the poor smokers alone, the governmnet aren't interested in getting kids off cigarettes at all, if they were that worried they'd ban smoking altogether, but they won't because they love the money they get from doubling the price and taxing smokers to the point where a pack of 20 will cost a monthly mortgage repayment in a few years.it's all bullcrap, this is no way a nanny state move it's a thinly veiled money grabbing exercise, and as a non smoker i say as long as they're not blowing their smoke out on me leave them alone.

Fighting Irish

J.R.HARTLEY wrote:

as long as they maintain the ban on smoking in pubs then leave the poor smokers alone, the governmnet aren't interested in getting kids off cigarettes at all, if they were that worried they'd ban smoking altogether, but they won't because they love the money they get from doubling the price and taxing smokers to the point where a pack of 20 will cost a monthly mortgage repayment in a few years.it's all bullcrap, this is no way a nanny state move it's a thinly veiled money grabbing exercise, and as a non smoker i say as long as they're not blowing their smoke out on me leave them alone.

CathyMoran

I will admit to being very anti-smoking when I was 4, I kept on begging my dad to stop smoking and he did. My brother is finally going to give them up when I get over my current health scare which pleases me a lot as I do worry about him. I must admit that anti-smoking measures are good as well for getting rid of the smell of smoking which is very unpleasant.

kizzyr

Dragan wrote:

Oh come on there fella, the two biggest earners for the government coffers are taxes on booze and smokes!!! The simply fact is that without them our economy would be a pretty pale shade of what it is now.

I would also like to point out that in this unfortunate world people who do not smoke or drink also need health care for various reasons, so the whole "you smoke means I pay for health care" should really be applied to them too. Only it would be "you got sick and I pay for your health care"…..but if you can say that then your really just a plank!!!! I imagine the taxes paid by a lifetime smoker on the ciggarettes he/she buys more than cover the cost of his health care?

The simple fact is you pay your taxes and they go where they go. I don't drive, nor have I ever owned a car, and yet many of the euros I pay in my tax have built the M50. I have no kids, and yet many of the euros I pay into the government coffers go to single parents and on child benefits.

It just the way of it, you work in this country and your taxes go where they go.

I'm fully aware that the tax from cigarettes brings in loads of money for the government, and I'm not saying that I as a non smoker am paying for your health care and yes taxes go into one pot and some benefit more than others from them. I think people have a responsibility to care for their bodies and look after their health as best they can and smoking, drinking to excess on a regular basis, over eating and the consequences of this puts additional strain on an already over stressed health service.
When it comes down to it smoking is a personal choice for someone to do or not do, I think it makes people smell, their clothes, breath, stains fingers, ages people, the are spending their money stupidly and I find it disgusting.

cornbb

Increasing the price of cigarettes has done absolutely nothing to curb smoking in the past. All it serves to do is penalise the less well-off, who tend to smoke more than the middle classes. I agree that something needs to be done to stop kids from smoking but this hasn't worked before, why should it work now?

Edit: not to promote smoking or anything, but I'd recommend that if fellow smokers can't quit, they should switch to rollies. They're far cheaper, the rate of taxation increases is lower, and you'll get used to them in no time. I switched years ago. If you're gonna kill yourself, might as well do it cheaply is what I say

Dragan

kizzyr wrote:

When it comes down to it smoking is a personal choice for someone to do or not do, I think it makes people smell, their clothes, breath, stains fingers, ages people, the are spending their money stupidly and I find it disgusting.

And thats fair enough, and all quite accurate!!!

Also, my apologies for calling you fella, i just copped on from another post that you are, in fact, a lady!

eirebhoy

Tackle69 wrote:

I remember they increased the price of cigerettes fairly drastically a few years ago to try and curb the same problem and look what it did... Nothing!

How do you know that? Only a few years ago I remember hearing that 1 in 3 Irish people smoke. Now it's down to about 24%.

Dragan

eirebhoy wrote:

How do you know that? Only a few years ago I remember hearing that 1 in 3 Irish people smoke. Now it's down to about 24%.

Indeed, but how much have the population increased in that time? I reckon the bases of smokers now would be bigger than then.

Fighting Irish

eirebhoy wrote:

How do you know that? Only a few years ago I remember hearing that 1 in 3 Irish people smoke. Now it's down to about 24%.

Sure buddy

kizzyr

Dragan wrote:

And thats fair enough, and all quite accurate!!!

Also, my apologies for calling you fella, i just copped on from another post that you are, in fact, a lady!

Every inch of one too;) (everything the other people say is an outright lie:D )

grumpytrousers

kizzyr wrote:

I'm not a Nazi about it, if you chose to "enjoy" your addiction then that is your perogative. However you will in the long run through your "enjoyable" actions end up costing those who don't smoke a lot more through health care etc. I really think they should be hugely expensive and if they cost enough it will stop people starting in the first place and maybe just maybe make those who are still smoking stop and think about what else they could be spending their money on.

as a matter of interest...would the anti-smokers here also support a massive increase in the duties payable on, say, alcohol (due to the proven causation of liver damage by same) and any fatty foods which are major contributors to heart disease/obesity? An extra euro on a pound of butter, for instance? I mean, you don't HAVE to use it on your spuds, but you're wilfully taking something that's proven to be bad for you?

i'm not trying to justify anything here...just wondering how serious people are about this whole 'living by the choices we make'...

Lynfo

Wasn't there something mentioned this week that we could all buy smokes & drink from abroad and pay far less tax than we would here? surely there is no point in banning 10 packs if this is the case?

And just for the record, I'm an ex-smoker and still believe people should be able to smoke if they feel like it. People will give up if and when they want to, and not due to pressure from others. Just my 2 cents

raido9

grumpytrousers wrote:

as a matter of interest...would the anti-smokers here also support a massive increase in the duties payable on, say, alcohol (due to the proven causation of liver damage by same) and any fatty foods which are major contributors to heart disease/obesity? An extra euro on a pound of butter, for instance? I mean, you don't HAVE to use it on your spuds, but you're wilfully taking something that's proven to be bad for you?

i'm not trying to justify anything here...just wondering how serious people are about this whole 'living by the choices we make'...

Good point! I agree with this completely. Smoking seems to be the only vice that is attacked. There are lots of things we do that are not good for us but we do them anyway becaise we enjoy them. Anti-smokers can't understand that it can actually be enjoyable to smoke a cigarette. It is a choice and I think its wrong to be penalised for choosing to smoke.

Cathy said earlier that passive smoking is still a big problem. I'd like to ask where is it a big problem. Smokers can't smoke in any public places these days (which I think has been great) so can only smoke in their own home, which I think is fair enough if you choose to.

kizzyr

grumpytrousers wrote:

as a matter of interest...would the anti-smokers here also support a massive increase in the duties payable on, say, alcohol (due to the proven causation of liver damage by same) and any fatty foods which are major contributors to heart disease/obesity? An extra euro on a pound of butter, for instance? I mean, you don't HAVE to use it on your spuds, but you're wilfully taking something that's proven to be bad for you?

i'm not trying to justify anything here...just wondering how serious people are about this whole 'living by the choices we make'...

I do think something really needs to be done about the way Irish people behave with regard to alcohol. I've said this before, as a nation we really have very little self control about the way we drink. I find it pathetic really that people really seem to be think that there is nothing else to do except drink and then they drink to such excess. While I said I'm in favour of cigarette prices being increased I'm not sure if it will stop enough people from smoking and while you'd think education as to the dangers of smoking would be a prevention method some people are impervious to the truth. So I don't know if increasing the tax on alcohol would work either and I'm not of the exact same opinion of alcohol as I am of smoking. Having a drink once per week harms no one but when you smoke you don't have a cigarette once per week, its addictive so it doesn't work in the same way.
Incidentally I was in favour of the so called "fat tax" but again your example of using butter on your potatoes doesn't really work. Someone may occasionally use butter in that way or on their toast but thats different to someone who can't be arsed cooking dinner and so phones for pizza and chips to be delivered every evening and their only exercise for the day is getting from the couch to the front door to pay the delivery man. Then one day oops their obese and can't figure out how that happened or how they got Type II diabetes, why their joints hurt etc.

cornbb

While we're on the subject:

from ireland.com breaking news:

Allen Carr dies from lung cancer

Allen Carr the man who went on to help millions of people to give up smoking after giving up his 100-a-day habit - has died from lung cancer.

The 72-year-old was at his home near Malaga in Spain and his family were with him, a spokeswoman said.

Friends said it seemed probable that the years he spent curing smokers in smoke-filled sessions at his clinics may have contributed to the illness.

Mr Carr started his career as a qualified accountant in 1958. He was successful in his chosen profession, but his cigarette addiction was driving him to despair. He developed his Easyway method of giving up smoking in 1983 and set up a clinic in south west London.

He went on to build an empire of 70 clinics in 30 countries which treated 45,000 people last year. Aside from his tips on how to give up smoking, Mr Carr gave advice on how to stop drinking and lose weight.

He sold more than 10 million copies of his books and DVDs worldwide. His first book, Allen Carr's Easyway To Stop Smoking, has sold more than seven million copies. John Dicey, worldwide director of Allen Carr's Easyway, said today:

"This is a tragic and emotional day for everyone involved with Allen Carr's Easyway organisation, most of whom, as former smokers, owe Allen their lives.

"Our hearts go out to Allen's family and the millions of former smokers who will be saddened by his passing.

"The fact that a former 100-a-day smoker, having quit in his middle age, lived to the ripe old age of 72 is a tremendous message to all smokers.

"Allen Carr's refreshingly different approach to stopping smoking earned him the position as the world's leading expert on helping smokers to quit.

"He was an iconic figure and a real inspiration and we will celebrate his life's work by ensuring that Allen Carr's Easyway message and method continues helping smokers quit throughout the world."

Mr Carr is survived by his wife, Joyce, his four children, two step-children, 11 grandchildren, and one great-grandchild.

eirebhoy

Fighting Irish wrote:

Sure buddy

You do realise that 24% is 1 in 4? And you don't think that a few years ago that figure was 1 in 3 (33%)? Or am I missing something?

raido9

Carr,who quit his own 100-a-day smoking habit 23 years ago, lost his cancer battle at his home in Spain this morning with his family by his side.

100 a day is ridiculous, would that be like a constant chain smoke everyday

cornbb

I don't think anyone could function normally on 100 a day these days. You'd need to be at home or outdoors all the time.

Love2love

Ireland's measures against smoking has benefitted eveyone, even the smokers. I know I smoke alot less when I'm home in Ireland. I'm here in Germany I think it scandalous that they advertise people smoking "looking cool", they also have smoking vending machines on every street corner where any child can get them without being asked for identification and they only cost 4euros for a pack of 20. Not only that but I'm restricted where ever I go because they smoke everywhere here and I don't want my son subjected to it! They smoke in the supermarket for feck sake!

Having said that I doubt this is the reason for the price increase, its for the fat cat politians to get their annual pay increase that they worked so hard for.

Wacker

I am a non-smoker, and very tolerant of smoking. What annoys me is all the complaining that goes on about the issue. And, believe it or not, the complaints come mostly from smokers.

Lads, look at it. The tax on cigarettes has not gone up in either of the last two budgets. Up until very recently, it was seen as ineivitable that the tax would go up every year, or at least every other year. For the last two years it hasn't. Be grateful for that much.
What I mean is, taxing cigarettes makes all the economic sense in the world. A high price on cigarettes could potentially prevent people from starting to smoke in the first place, and it could also encourage people to quit.
Smokers freely accept that the deciion will negatively impact upon their health, and government money will be used to treat diseased lungs, so it makes perfect sense in that respect for the government to ensure that they get as much tax out of it as they can.
And most of all, any arguement that people are being robbed can simply be countered by pointing out that one can quit. I find it bizarre that people attribute such blame to the government for what is their own decision.

I think the most ingenius coup pulled by the smoking lobby was in convincing people that non-smokers are whingers. It really looks like the reverse to me. How anyone can say something like "Well, I only wanted ten smokes, but I had to buy twenty, so I smoked them all!" and come across as anything other than a fool is beyond me. What is even crazier is that the above position gets sympathy.

Before anyone mentions it, I do support similair taxation increases on alcohol too, and I am a drinker. Sauce for the goose, etc.

cornbb

Wacker wrote:

What I mean is, taxing cigarettes makes all the economic sense in the world. A high price on cigarettes could potentially prevent people from starting to smoke in the first place, and it could also encourage people to quit

With due respect, you are a non-smoker who doesn't understand the nature of the addiction. Price increases will piss smokers off and maybe, just maybe, provide enough of an incentive to quit. In the vast majority of cases however, this is not a strong enough factor in the equation. Education is far more important than taxation IMO. As I said, higher taxes on tobacco will only serve to make poor people poorer.

Smellyirishman

cornbb wrote:

Education is far more important than taxation IMO.

You think there is a single person out there that doesn't understand the health risks involved in smoking? Hello, read the box you're paying so much money for.

Wacker

cornbb wrote:

Education is far more important than taxation IMO. As I said, higher taxes on tobacco will only serve to make poor people poorer.

Alright, how does the government pay for extra anti-smoking education? Maybe with the tax on cigarettes?

Yes, increased taxation on cigarettes will make poor people poorer; I am not denying that. But there is a way of avoiding this problem (quitting obviously), and people will be admired and encouraged for doing so.

cornbb

Smellyirishman wrote:

You think there is a single person out there that doesn't understand the health risks involved in smoking? Hello, read the box you're paying so much money for.

Absolutely, that's the whole point!

Most people start smoking when they are in their teens and don't know any better. They may be vaguely aware of the health risks but are generally unaware that they may end up hooked on a costly and deadly habit for life. Hence the need for education.