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Free energy!

  • 28-11-2006 10:24pm
    #1
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 7,921 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Gaspode


    Anyone know what happened to that Irish company that claimed to be able to produce free energy, I think it was earlier this year?

    Edit: think they were called Storm or Steorm, something like that


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,871 ✭✭✭✭ kippy


    http://www.steorn.net/frontpage/default.aspx
    Theres a few posts in here on it.
    Looks like no movement since the last we heard of it.....Havent heard anything by email yet.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,083 lostexpectation


    apparently they had a party the other day and invited variosu international forum members/public.


    they had one forum member take a long visit at the company which is busy working away preparing to verify and launch the product

    they said they were working on another project for water pump for africa, the person visited said she knew who the irish aid guy was.

    here's the pics

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 209 ✭✭ DublinEvents


    Let's hope these folks can rid our world of the ever mounting energy crisis and set humanity free from battling over limited energy resources. By the way, a fusion reactor project in France is also promising almost free energy. It's magnitudes safer than fission reactors since no plutonium is produced as a waste product.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,930 Jimoslimos


    Let's hope these folks can rid our world of the ever mounting energy crisis and set humanity free from battling over limited energy resources. By the way, a fusion reactor project in France is also promising almost free energy. It's magnitudes safer than fission reactors since no plutonium is produced as a waste product.

    I'm hoping that this last statement was made tongue-in-cheek, fusion has been a pipe dream for a long time and is looking that way for a good few years. As for Steorn....a slickly produced PR stunt/scam at best. Why else would the CEO be pimping it in the Economist as opposed to a scientific journal - maximum exposure to a wealthier audience, thats why. Methinks once they've captured enough outside investment you won't be hearing much from them again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,307 ✭✭✭ jonski


    Jimoslimos wrote:
    Methinks once they've captured enough outside investment you won't be hearing much from them again.

    I think if you read a bit more into it would will find that they are not taking on any investment . I think the worst that this will turn out to be is a mistake somewhere .


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 7,921 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Gaspode


    Have to say the cynic in me goes withhte make a quick buck and disappear theory. They're a bit short on details of what they are selling/doing/proposing.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 87,003 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Capt'n Midnight


    Have they cancelled their ESB connection yet ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4 Ronald Burgundy


    As far as I know they're still there on the Docklands marvellling at their invention of perpetual motion.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 569 Ice_Box


    Press Release from Steorn...

    Steorn announces plans for widespread deployment of its free energy technology post-validation

    Dublin, 11th January 2007: Steorn, the Irish technology development company, has today announced that its free energy technology will be made widely available to the development community immediately after the independent scientific validation process that is currently underway.

    Under the terms of a modified general purpose licence and for a nominal fee, Steorn's intellectual property will be made available concurrently to all interested parties, from individual enthusiasts to larger research organisations. Steorn is taking this bold move to accelerate the deployment and acceptance of its technology for both humanitarian and commercial products.

    Steorn's technology is based on the interaction of magnetic fields and allows the production of clean, free and constant energy. The technology can be applied to virtually all devices requiring energy, from cellular phones to cars.

    Steorn placed an advertisement in The Economist in August 2006 to attract the attention of the world's leading scientists working in the field of experimental physics. It has now completed the selection of its jury of scientists who have embarked on the testing of the technology prior to publshing their results worldwide.

    Sean McCarthy, CEO of Steorn, commented: "We have experienced enormous levels of interest in our free energy technology from the product development community.

    "Experience tells us that opening up access to technology to all interested parties via the internet allows for rapid third party development. We believe that our technology can have a profound impact on people's lives and are confident that the delivery of our intellctual property via this type of online development and engineering support environment will lead to the rapid deployment of all kinds of different products."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 569 Ice_Box


    Their discussion board has thousands of members only too willing to pay this nominal fee what ever it will be.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,307 ✭✭✭ jonski


    Kinda gives it an open source feel to it .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,895 Dave!


    Have these people changed the world yet, or what? :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 569 Ice_Box


    I visit their discussion board every now and then; here is what I can work out...

    The technology is to be called ORBO which stands for nothing in particular. They chose it because they already owned the domain orbo.com and they think it’s kind of cool or something.

    They have updated their website. It’s now worth a visit.
    www.steorn.com

    Their development club (The Spud Club) went live a few days ago. This gives some forum members access to some of their secrets and allows them to build their own devices to test the Orbo effect. Members have to sign an NDA. They have been given permission to enter some competition where the prize is one million dollars.

    They claim to have made an order for 100,000 "toys" to demonstrate the "Orbo" effect. This perpetual motion machine will be available later this year and could be expensive.

    They will demo their device around the world on July 7th which is the day of Al Gores concerts.

    The Jury of Twelve which started its work in January have made no statements and are thought to be working away on their thermodynamic analysis and whatnot.

    At the end of Quarter 1 (ie April 1st) they claim they will make some technical details known "providing specifics on power density, power to weight and so on."

    To summarise, there is still no proof of anything.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,930 Jimoslimos


    Ice_Box wrote:
    Members have to sign an NDA.
    No problem then, since I'd imagine there's feck all to disclose :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,210 ✭✭✭✭ Ghost Train


    Ice_Box wrote:
    At the end of Quarter 1 (ie April 1st) they claim they will make some technical details known "providing specifics on power density, power to weight and so on."

    April 1st lol


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 7,921 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Gaspode


    Ice_Box wrote:
    At the end of Quarter 1 (ie April 1st) they claim they will make some technical details known "providing specifics on power density, power to weight and so on."

    To summarise, there is still no proof of anything.


    I've had a look around the site today. much ado about nothing really - all very slick and well presented, but in essence they are talking about nothing. There is no product, so service, no promise that you can actually graps from their technomarketing pseudo-sciene blurb.
    How sad to spend that much money on trying to sell nothing.
    When I grow up I'd prefer to have a real job.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,307 ✭✭✭ jonski


    So why do you think they have spent so much money ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 569 Ice_Box


    Video update from Steorn...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3aaRrEIp-0


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,307 ✭✭✭ jonski


    Nothng new really and still no evidence of them having anything .


  • Registered Users Posts: 44 ✭✭✭ DrFunkenstein


    Aye most likely charlatans, although hopefully not ehh..

    The only way I can see for viable (well after the initial outlay and regular maintance costs) free energy (not Zero Point) would be wind turbines generating to perform electrolysis on water, collecting and burning the hydrogen produced..

    it would be a self sustaining system, assuming it was wet and windy :rolleyes:


    If anyone could knock up designs, specifications and design the processes needed so I can build a system to do this, t'would be much appreciated :D

    Dr.F


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭ cavedave




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,307 ✭✭✭ jonski


    cavedave wrote:
    Magnetic forces do no work


    or so says that blogger


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,475 Son Goku


    jonski wrote:
    or so says that blogger
    And James Clark Maxwell and every experiment and technology ever. They do no work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭ cavedave


    What have these maxwells equations ever done for me? Most of the arguments for free energy devices seem to be
    A: it does not work according to known laws of physics. But plug it into the national grid and become an instant zillionaire proving me wrong
    B: I know my perpetual motion machine generates electricity but I have not bothered to plug it into the national grid because then the fillings in my teeth are part of a big oil conspiracy.

    It is quite sad because there are many areas of interesting research that people are scared to go near because they will be labelled a crank. For example there does seem to be an effect on time of birth and personality but research into this based on light, diet etc is shown to "proves astrology" so it is an area that is commonly ignored. There are many "cold fusion" techniques where a very small area is made very hot indeed, but you cannot study cold fusion so you have to call it table top fusion instead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 861 Professor_Fink


    cavedave wrote:
    Magnetic forces do no work

    That largely depends on your perspective. Feynman has an interesting discussion about why magnets get pulled together in one of his books.


  • Registered Users Posts: 861 Professor_Fink


    cavedave wrote:
    What have these maxwells equations ever done for me? Most of the arguments for free energy devices seem to be
    A: it does not work according to known laws of physics. But plug it into the national grid and become an instant zillionaire proving me wrong
    B: I know my perpetual motion machine generates electricity but I have not bothered to plug it into the national grid because then the fillings in my teeth are part of a big oil conspiracy.

    It is quite sad because there are many areas of interesting research that people are scared to go near because they will be labelled a crank.

    What makes a crank is not a claim that they have discovered some new phenomena in an area that has not been studied before, but rather a claim that they have discovered a phenomena is a regime that has been studied intensively and thoroughly and no such effect has every been observed.

    We know the physics of how magnetic fields behave and interact with matter for the types of energy scales, and space time curvature that we find in a lab. You _cannot_ find a way to build a perpetual motion machine like this, as the physics which we know govern it do not allow for nonconservation of energy.

    If you said that energy might not be conserved on the scale of a Planck length in the vicicity of a gravitational singularity for particles with energy more that10^100 Joules, then that would be a different story. We've never been able to do experiments in that regime, so we cannot absolutely rule it out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,475 Son Goku


    cavedave wrote:
    What have these maxwells equations ever done for me?
    There the basis for all modern technology. Especially the entire computing and communications industry. In fact they probably, in terms of profit, the single most fruitful piece of mathematics ever.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭ bonkey


    cavedave wrote:
    It is quite sad because there are many areas of interesting research that people are scared to go near because they will be labelled a crank.
    Thats not entirely true. People won't go near it because they won't get funding for it and then complain vociverously. These complaints they make themselves are typically where the reason "labelled a crank" comes from.
    For example there does seem to be an effect on time of birth and personality but research into this based on light, diet etc is shown to "proves astrology" so it is an area that is commonly ignored.
    Any time someone uses the term "prove" in relation to a non-scientific field, whilst discussing science, you can safely assume they are misrepresenting something. Science doesn't prove anything.

    Furthermore, even the allegation that there seems to be this correlation suggests that study has been done. How else could this claim be made? Well, it could be a completely baseless "I think the correlation exists" claim, which would be akin to someone saying "I think there is an actual basis to some of this astrology stuff and would like to have research funded to look into it". In such a case, yes, you will get ignored by mainstream science.
    There are many "cold fusion" techniques where a very small area is made very hot indeed, but you cannot study cold fusion so you have to call it table top fusion instead.
    And? Renaming something means you get to do the research.

    Its an important point, though, because it can be compared to your first one.

    "I think there is a basis behind astrology" gets renamed to "there appears to be an influence by light conditions, time of birth, various other factors, and the resultant personality" and still doesn't get funding.

    Stuff-that-isn't-cold-fusion gets renamed to something-other-than-cold-fusion and does get funding.

    This would suggest that the "rename to get funding" hypothesis is incomplete or incorrect. Similarly, the "labelled a crank" hypothesis.

    What makes the Steorn guys cranks (in my book) is the completely unorthodox way in which they have set about trying to gain "scientific acceptability". They claim that no-one would touch their stuff with a bargepole for peer-review because of this same alleged fringe-science-bias. Then , having gotten the publicity, by their own admission there were no shortage of scientists actually saying "sure, I'll quite happily review it".

    Did Steorn turn around and say "I guess we were wrong, we can actually find people willing to scientifically validate our work"??? No, they didn't.

    They instead established a system of (alleged) validation where they (allegedly) hand-picked the reviewers from amongst the (alleged) list of applicants, got them to sign NDAs, only allow (alleged) findings to flow back through their own publicity channels.

    I deliberately use the term alleged repeatedly above, because the claims cannot be verified at this time. Steorn themselves are the single source of information regarding these claims. Given that what is at stake in the first place is Steorn's credibility, they are one source who's information cannot be accepted without verification.

    Now here's the thing....

    Lets assume that sometime in the coming years, Steorn actually deliver the goods, turn science on its head, and deliver clean free energy for all. I will be absolutely delighted to be wrong but will argue that my skeptical position was still the right oen to take and will be right far more often than it is wrong.

    I'm pretty sure that their supporters, or those repeating some contentless mantra like "keep an open mind" will feel the same should they be wrong - that they're right to consistently lend their support to all of these claims, and as each one falls, they're right to "keep an open mind" when the next one comes along, because sooner or later one of them will pan out.

    If only I could play poker against people taking that mindset. "Hey, I've got nothing, but you know, until the last card falls and I see that I've lost, its possible that I have the best hand, so I'm right to keep putting money in the pot".

    And before you argue that there's a difference between putting money into something and believing it may have merit, I agree, there is. People not willing to put money into something don't really believe in it.

    Many are just not willing to stand by their lack of belief, preferring instead to criticise others (like those who fund science) for not putting their money into something they don't believe in either.

    Its simple. If you believe in the likes of Steorn, then find a way that you can given them your money rather than complaining that science is unfairly stacked against funding such people.

    If you think you have better things to do with your money...well...what exactly is it that you're complaining about?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭ cavedave


    There the basis for all modern technology. Especially the entire computing and communications industry. In fact they probably, in terms of profit, the single most fruitful piece of mathematics ever.
    My contention that Maxwells equations had never done anything for me was not intended to be taken seriously.

    bonkey good points well made
    This would suggest that the "rename to get funding" hypothesis is incomplete or incorrect.
    There are some examples of this phenonomen. For example the study of cancer causing viruses. Papers in the past have made attempts to make sure they did not mention viruses explicitly inorder to try get funding.

    Tabletop fusion does get funding
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/03/040303080222.htm
    Effects of the environment on pregnancy does get some research
    http://www.newstarget.com/021742.html
    but probably not as much as it should.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 569 Ice_Box


    Those of you intrested in following the Steorn story might be interested in this excellent blog...

    http://freeenergytracker.blogspot.com/

    The blogger reads the forum and writes about the interesting things that are happening over there. Saves you having to read through all the tinfoil hat stuff.


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