When is it ok to Call Clock on an opponent?

BigCityBanker

Iv thought about this quite a bit and now that I see both Rounders and MrPillowTalks posts on the GJP review thread I decided Id start a thread on the topic as I am interested in peoples opinions and i dont want to drag the other thread off topic.....

So when is it ok to call clock. I admit to calling it on a number of occasions and iv also had it called on me on a couple of occasions (by Rounders btw) when I had A3 on an AAK board after UTG open pushed all in on the flop with two players left to act behind me.

Anyway what are the golden rules?

Id not call when somebodys tournament life is on the line...

I would call when somebody is giving it all talk after being RRAI and I can see they are never going to call but are putting on a show!!

I would call it when somebody has donkey played themselves into a tight situation (Ollieboy u rem the East Wall Game when guy 3 bet with 3rd nuts on a 4 diamond board and you fired another bullet)

I will also call it when i am not involved in the hand - I feel I am at the table and I dont want somebody taking 5/6 mins of my playing time.

I would never call it hastily - you will have at least 3 mins to make a decision before I call clock....

What is the general consensus on this? I have been told I should never call it unless I am in the hand but I dont exactly buy this. FWIW It doesnt bother me when somebody calls clock on me.

smurph

I have 2 stories about this. First one was at the GJP festival, SB raises, and gets a call. Flop come down and SB bets, other guy goes all in. The 1st guy that bets, after about 3mins it is quite obvious he is not going to call. There is another women at the table (bernie I think) a local woman who is getting irrate, she is short stacked and the clock is ticking, she asks whats the story about a clock being called, now she doesn't ask for clock at this stage. The guy who went all in then says that only the people in the hand can call clock. I say that anyone can call a clock.
At this stage the SB takes out a coin and proceeds to do the coin flip motion, immediately myself and bernie call clock at the same time. The minute is counted down and he mucks, then he proceeds to say the usual "those ladies are in an awful hurry, and they cost you money" to the guy who went all in. I have no hesitation in calling clock on someone if I feel that they are doing the hollywood on it and pretending that it is a big decision..


2nd one involved Martin. He was at a table and there was a guy who was doing alot of commenting on hands he was not in, ie Martin was shortstacked and anytime he put a bet in the other guy would make a comment like "look at the shortstack trying to rob the blinds etc." Anyway story goes that the guy called clock on Martin who let the minute go right down to the last second and then mucked his cards.

The guy says "Why did you wait til the last second to fold", Martin replied "Cause i knew it would annoy the tits off you".

5starpool

I have only ever called clock once and that was only in jest really, and I can't recall having the clock called on me either. The fact that I have never had clock called on me is mostly due to the fact that usually I play in the Fitz where I know the majority of players and if I am taking a long time (very rare) they know it must be a big decision.

Washout

can you call clock on a player in a live cash game or is the dealer meant to keep an eye on the time and warn a player that their decision time is running out.

5starpool

Dealer should never, ever call clock.

ianmc38

You can call clock in a cash game if you want.

ntlbell

I don't call it much but when I do I'm

Not involved in the hand and the player is constantly slowing the game down.

mdwexford

i have no qualms about calling a clock on people

it happened to me in binions in vegas, a guy took 5-6mins and had still not made a decision, i wasnt involved in the hand but it was still wasting the level so i called a clock, i was not mr. popular after that, the yanks werent immpressed

Dub13

smurph wrote:

I have 2 stories about this. First one was at the GJP festival, SB raises, and gets a call. Flop come down and SB bets, other guy goes all in. The 1st guy that bets, after about 3mins it is quite obvious he is not going to call. There is another women at the table (bernie I think) a local woman who is getting irrate, she is short stacked and the clock is ticking, she asks whats the story about a clock being called, now she doesn't ask for clock at this stage. The guy who went all in then says that only the people in the hand can call clock. I say that anyone can call a clock.
At this stage the SB takes out a coin and proceeds to do the coin flip motion, immediately myself and bernie call clock at the same time. The minute is counted down and he mucks, then he proceeds to say the usual "those ladies are in an awful hurry, and they cost you money" to the guy who went all in. I have no hesitation in calling clock on someone if I feel that they are doing the hollywood on it and pretending that it is a big decision.

He was never going to call this hand,and he was doing my head in pondering over most calls.I think he watches to much poker on TV.

cooker3

Yeah I dealt that hand with smurf, guy was a nightmare. Every decision took forever. It was funny seeing you and other lady say clock in unison the second he took coin out.

cardshark202

I have never called clock cos I hate when the clock is called on me.

Lazare

cardshark202 wrote:

I have never called clock cos I hate when the clock is called on me.

I'd never call it in a cash game, but a tournament is a different story, although I'd probably only do it in a situation like Smurphs.
If I felt a player had a genuine difficult decision for his tournament life, there's no way I'd call it.

BigCityBanker

cardshark202 wrote:

I have never called clock cos I hate when the clock is called on me.

Have you ever delayed a fold to act as if its a tough decision or induce clock being called on you through excessive delaying when it was a clear fold?

pok3rplaya

f you're drunk Dave Masterson, about 1 second into every decision!

Lazare

I often call clock on my wife - bathroom delays etc..

She has no clue what I'm on about.

cardshark202

BigCityBanker wrote:

Have you ever delayed a fold to act as if its a tough decision or induce clock being called on you through excessive delaying when it was a clear fold?

No I might take a few extra seconds when I know I'm going to fold but that's often because I'm just going back over the hand in my head.

DeVore

I give everyone at least a minute. I'll generally give people about 5 minutes. I'll take about 1-2 minutes off that each time I feel like the person is just taking the piss. If they are simply taking the mick and not even thinking about it (like the guy who was singing to his chips in Cork) then I dont feel its a problem to call clock on them the moment they start acting the boll*x.
That has happened exactly once.

Mostly I dont call clock I'll just kinda gently indicate that the person needs to make a decision. Most people generally respond to that (I certainly respond better to it ) and will acknoledge that they need to make a decision.

DeV.

kakak1

mdwexford wrote:

i have no qualms about calling a clock on people

it happened to me in binions in vegas, a guy took 5-6mins and had still not made a decision, i wasnt involved in the hand but it was still wasting the level so i called a clock, i was not mr. popular after that, the yanks werent immpressed

what did the yank who you put the clock on have to say

did he call / fold / win the hand

ocallagh

I called clock when Player X was involved in a hand. He'd had about 10 whiskeys too - NOT a good idea

sikes

i called the clock on myself once, cos i saw it done on tv once and thought it would be cool

nicnicnic

just never put anyone on the clock unless ur taking the pis s. if there legit and in the tank well let them if there not and acting the bollex and u clock ur playen into there hands so dont

nicnicnic

mdwexford wrote:

i have no qualms about calling a clock on people

it happened to me in binions in vegas, a guy took 5-6mins and had still not made a decision, i wasnt involved in the hand but it was still wasting the level so i called a clock, i was not mr. popular after that, the yanks werent immpressed

mick tell the full storey it was the guy u travelled to vegas with u put the clock on u sick *****

mdwexford

kakak1 wrote:

what did the yank who you put the clock on have to say

did he call / fold / win the hand

it was lorcan i put the clock on dave, he wasnt too happy!!!!

he folded of course, he was never calling, just wasting my level

mdwexford

nicnicnic wrote:

mick tell the full storey it was the guy u travelled to vegas with u put the clock on u sick *****[/QUOTE

it sure was nic,
but he had just sucked out on me when the board double paired and his ace high beat my small pocket pair so i was still fuming over that :mad:

id call a clock on my own mother if i thought she was wasting my time with no intention of calling.......;)

smurph

Dub13 wrote:

He was never going to call this hand,and he was doing my head in pondering over most calls.I think he watches to much poker on TV.

Actually had not realised you were Dub13 til the break. Yeah he was doing my head in aswell, his plan worked as I donked half my stack to him on a call when I knew I was behind. Got them back thank god.

kakak1

mdwexford wrote:

nicnicnic wrote:

mick tell the full storey it was the guy u travelled to vegas with u put the clock on u sick *****[/QUOTE

it sure was nic,
but he had just sucked out on me when the board double paired and his ace high beat my small pocket pair so i was still fuming over that :mad:

id call a clock on my own mother if i thought she was wasting my time with no intention of calling.......;)

hold up here, are you telling me you put the clock on a mate who you travelled to Vegas with in a tournament out there :eek: :eek: :eek:

and we're all saying we wouldn't put the clock on a total stranger

bops

...i don't think they're mates anymore...

bit harsh mick??
lololololololololol

5starpool

ocallagh wrote:

I called clock when Player X was involved in a hand. He'd had about 10 whiskeys too - NOT a good idea

I did that to him once when he was sober after he dared someone to call the clock on him. He waited til the last second, glared at me the whole time and then folded. I don't think he cared that I was messing. He doesn't take kindly to the clock being called on him.

califano

Also imo 1 minute is too long a countdown. It should be 30 seconds. One minute is like an age when theyve already been thinking over 4 minutes.

Marq

I agree with Rounders that a minute is too long. 30 seconds is long enough.

The worst etiquette I have ever seen in relation to the clock was in a cash game a few months ago. the two people involved in the hand were Cardshark202 and Kevin Corcoran, a regular in the 50 He in the fitz. On the turn cardshark had bet a significant amount into a very large pot, corcoran thought for over 5 minutes before calling. Noone called clock on him the whole time he was thinking. On the river, Corcoran led at the pot, and after cardshark had been thinking about 30 seconds he called clock on him. I thought it was pretty despicable at the time, especially as after cardshark called and lost (the pot was about 1500) corcoran told him that he only called clock on him thinking it might help him fold. Player X was at the table and almost punched him for this comment.

strewelpeter

rounders123 wrote:

Also imo 1 minute is too long a countdown. It should be 30 seconds. One minute is like an age when theyve already been thinking over 4 minutes.

Thats right. Once the clock is called it means there has been more than enough time to think about it now its time to **** or get off the pot. The minute only encourages the messers, they almost always do that grandstanding bollix of letting the hand die.
Come to think of it, I don't remember ever seeing anyone going right to the end of the countdown and calling.

kincsem

I make most of my decisions almost instantly. Sometimes I delay a little to pretend I have a tough decision, especially against a serial raiser.

In the GJP ME early in the tourney a player bet 2k after a big delay, then 4k after a massive delay. I might have been radiating tell like an Aurora Borealis, but I didn't care as I was holding QQ on a 5 high board (22335). I let him take all the time he wanted. I don't see much point in delays. They won't affect me. I've made my decision.

Asaik I have never called clock on anyone. But I have no problem if a player not in the hand calls clock. I welcome it.

kincsem

I've just read back through the thread.

I'm awarding the Victoria Cross, posthumously (or the Irish equivalent) to the players who called clock on player X .

phantom_lord

strewelpeter wrote:

Come to think of it, I don't remember ever seeing anyone going right to the end of the countdown and calling.

I did in the 300 game at the weekend, first time clock's been called on me.

Tar.Aldarion

A guy sang to his chips in cork eh.
Lol.
I've never called it, nor had it called.

smurph

kincsem wrote:

I've just read back through the thread.

I'm awarding the Victoria Cross, posthumously (or the Irish equivalent) to the players who called clock on player X .

Player X After a load of drink = scary monster

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

califano

Thats fair enough Lloyd, you made some good points which i will take on board a bit more in future.
Actually the more i think about it the more i believe calling clock to get someone to make a quicker decision is needless. Because however long they have taken up to the clock being called they then get another full minute by the dealer, by which time they may have made their decision during this minute or not further past it had clock not be called.
Also it seems to create bad feeling and i'd prefer to play on a friendly table. I have probally called clock about 4 or 5 times in live tournaments(usually against wallys like ollyk1 ) usually without remark but in future seeing as it seems to create hard feeling i might just see if someone else calls the clock and be the 'bad guy'.

Solksjaer

CLOCK on Lucky Lloyds post.....

I know for a fact that I'm not a slow player and I have been 'clocked' twice and both times after just over 30 seconds, and both times I was actually comtemplating a call before correctly folding..
In my opinion both players were acting the mick with me, one in particular was just an ego twit. (IMO)
I think the whole clock things needs addressing. I reckon a player needs time to think for a big hand decision. So maybe he should announce 'CLOCK' on himself whereby the dealer gives him max 5 minutes to think/dwell. If the player uses this option more than once then and only then can other players be allowed to clock him and thus he gets the standard minute. If a player is constantly dwelling well then opposed to actually clocking him the delaer should warn him .

DeVore

Lloyd, in a 20 minute clock game I disagree that only people in the hand should call clock. If you are short stacked and someone is grandstanding then I think its perfectly acceptible to call clock because they are affecting your tournament enormously.

Normally I wont call clock on someone who genuinely has a big decision, or hasnt been taking a long time before. Especially if they are new to the game.

Obvious grandstanders like Humberto Brenes or the muppets like the guy in my two recent cork blogs should have clock put on them the second its their turn to act.

DeV.

myflipflops

DeVore wrote:

Normally I wont call clock on someone who genuinely has a big decision, or hasnt been taking a long time before. Especially if they are new to the game.

This pretty much sums up my opinion on the matter. I've never had a clock called on me but have done it plenty of times, mainly in cash games. I've never, ever done it in a pot that would be considered ven reasonably large and would never call clock on someone who is deciding on his tournament life.

Really it'sa common sense thing. I feel no guilt calling a clock on someone after a minute when he's considering calling a €10 bet into a €20 pot (ive seen it in the emporium) but if the pot is €1000 and the bet is large, the player deserves time.

Also, i would never dream of clocking PLayer X, i'd feel safer slapping his head and humming the Beny Hill music.

MrPillowTalk

I have never had the clock called on me but this is what would happen if someone did, first off Id let it run to the last second before calling or folding, and from then on the player who called it will have about ten seconds for every decision before I call a clock every hand. Also I would start taking an absolute age on every hand making him call clock every hand on me and I would let it run down to the last second every time.

So be warned if you ever call a clock on me, also I'll follow you around to every cash game you play untill I bust you.

Solksjaer

CLOCK on Mr Pillowtalk, he can follow me around as he seems to have cash and I have none left, after my lastest (non poker related) purchase so CLOCK!

Can someone PM as to who Player X is .

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Washout

tony G using the clock effictively

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvCn_KbLpLY

DeVore

MrPillowTalk wrote:

I have never had the clock called on me but this is what would happen if someone did, first off Id let it run to the last second before calling or folding, and from then on the player who called it will have about ten seconds for every decision before I call a clock every hand. Also I would start taking an absolute age on every hand making him call clock every hand on me and I would let it run down to the last second every time.

So be warned if you ever call a clock on me, also I'll follow you around to every cash game you play untill I bust you.

Even if it was genuine and warranted??

I have done this before (and will again) but only when I feel the clock is being used as an unfair needle or tactic rather then for its proper purpose. If I have been taking time I will acknowledge it and make a decision as soon as possible.

DeV.

Solksjaer

kincsem wrote:

I've just read back through the thread.

I'm awarding the Victoria Cross, posthumously (or the Irish equivalent) to the players who called clock on player X .

LOL I've found out who he is lol, he is a barker all right. I don't know you that well Kincem but from what I do know he is the complete opposite to you personalitywise at the table. (also in general I'd say)....and you can take that as a compliment!

MrPillowTalk

DeVore wrote:

Even if it was genuine and warranted??

I have done this before (and will again) but only when I feel the clock is being used as an unfair needle or tactic rather then for its proper purpose. If I have been taking time I will acknowledge it and make a decision as soon as possible.

DeV.

yes even if I have taken a long time on a decision, if Im taking a long time then it is a genuine decision.

If someone wants to throw the toys out of the pram, well all I can say is I am yet to meet the person who can be more awkward and stubborn than I when I put my mind to it.

Solksjaer

MrPillowTalk wrote:

I am yet to meet the person who can be more awkward and stubborn than I when I put my mind to it.

You met me recently, so this comment is untrue, so how many more lies do you tell huh? I also think I'm a better player than you or Hector Jelly I'm just playing left handed this year to give you all a chance.


The clock has it's place I just wish it was more controlled as it really is a tilt device for the clever and mischievous so go on Green Joker break some ground and introduce a new rule

breadmonkey

pwhite587 wrote:

Also, i would never dream of clocking PLayer X, i'd feel safer slapping his head and humming the Beny Hill music.

I obviously don'y know this Player X but this sounds like a prop bet to me!

The Sheriff 101

MrPillowTalk wrote:

If someone wants to throw the toys out of the pram, well all I can say is I am yet to meet the person who can be more awkward and stubborn than I when I put my mind to it.

You obviously havent had the pleasure of meeting my ex:p