Revenue charging VAT on Orders over 22euro - Play/cdwow

alastair_doom

TheDriver just brought this to my attention in the 'tarrantino' thread, But i said i better make a new thread just to make sure everyone hears about this...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055018103

xebec

Jees, that's nasty, really crappy thing to happen just before chrimbo too

Ruu_Old

Another kick up the arsh for the consumer.

RobertFoster

Looks like an expensive Christmas

Sponge Bob

This is the law and always has been the law. Small Package relief applies to packages under €23 or €22 . Vat and duty are chargeable thereafter.

craichoe

So does the full rate of VAT apply or the reduced rate ?

Taken from:
http://europa.eu/abc/travel/shop/index_en.htm

Shops in airports might advertise with "duty-free" or similar terms. This can be either general publicity or it might refer to special rules that apply when you travel to a country outside the EU. You might then be allowed to pay lower VAT or duty on a limited number of goods, because you are not considered to be in any one country during your travel. Similar "duty-free" shopping does not exist when you travel between EU countries, because all the EU is one single market and you can instead profit from the freedom to buy whatever you want and take advantage of the diversity of choice, taste, taxes and prices.

The table below shows the standard and reduced rates of VAT applied in the EU as at 1 July 2005. A more comprehensive list of VAT rates PDF (175KB) and the goods and services to which they are applied is also available.
Country

Reduced rate of VAT

Standard rate of VAT
Austria 10 20
Belgium 6 21
Cyprus 5 15
Czech Republic 5 19
Germany 7 16
Denmark - 25
Spain 7 16
Estonia 5 18
France 5.5 19.6
Finland 8/17 22
United Kingdom 5 17.5
Greece 9 19
Hungary 5/15 25
Italy 10 20
Ireland 13.5 21
Luxembourg 6 15
Lithuania 5/9 18
Latvia 5 18
Malta 5 18
The Netherlands 6 19
Portugal 5/12 21
Poland 7 22
Sweden 6/12 25
Slovakia - 19
Slovenia 8.5 20

Sponge Bob

21% or (total+duty+21%) whichever is applicable .

7dayshop would also be affected as would mx2 .

construct06

Maybe A Silly Qt. But How Do The Revenue Know? Are The Websites Obliged To Inform Them Or Are The Packages Caught On Way Into Country?

xebec

The packages are marked with the value of the contents. Also pretty easy to spot packages from the major companies.

rubadub

They can charge on postage too so beware. Play etc do not usually disclose the post cost. Many US ones do.
So they add the declared cost, to the postage cost, Then add duty to that sum, then add 21% to that. Then add €5 handling fee on top of that.

So better to go with the cheapest postage option from the likes of dvdpacific, the postage can be far more than the item sometimes.

A simple way around this for play is to charge a postage & handling fee (instead of including it in the price like they currently do and call it "free").
So if you went for a £40 box set, they could say it is £15, postage £15 (undisclosed on the packet as normal) and handling of £10

muffler

One of the advantages of living close to the border here in Donegal is that I have a good few relatives and friends around the Strabane area (just for the benefit of the people in Dublin please note that Donegal is in the Republic of Ireland and Strabane is in Northern Ireland )

If I do order something over €22 I will get it sent to a friends address in Northern Ireland - happy days.

But the old saying "a friend in need is only a torture" springs to mind though

Dades

At least with free postage on CDWOW you can order stuff to be sent in separate batches of less than €22 (unless the order costs over €22 ).

hk797

muffler wrote:

One of the advantages of living close to the border here in Donegal is that I have a good few relatives and friends around the Strabane area (just for the benefit of the people in Dublin please note that Donegal is in the Republic of Ireland and Strabane is in Northern Ireland )

If I do order something over €22 I will get it sent to a friends address in Northern Ireland - happy days.

But the old saying "a friend in need is only a torture" springs to mind though

muffler looks as if you and your relatives and friends have a nice little business opportunity sitting before you - nice work if you can get it

indiewindy

rubadub wrote:

They can charge on postage too so beware. Play etc do not usually disclose the post cost. Many US ones do.
So they add the declared cost, to the postage cost, Then add duty to that sum, then add 21% to that. Then add €5 handling fee on top of that.

So better to go with the cheapest postage option from the likes of dvdpacific, the postage can be far more than the item sometimes.

A simple way around this for play is to charge a postage & handling fee (instead of including it in the price like they currently do and call it "free").
So if you went for a £40 box set, they could say it is £15, postage £15 (undisclosed on the packet as normal) and handling of £10

That won't work as vat and duty are charged on the total value including postage and handling. As other posters are saying stick to retailers who ship individually like play and cdwow. Sendit ship all together. The reason for the crackdown is retailers kicking up a fuss as they are being hammered by these online sellers.

muffler

hk797 wrote:

muffler looks as if you and your relatives and friends have a nice little business opportunity sitting before you - nice work if you can get it

You know there is a possibility for that if I had more time. I see that some online stores would for example deliver free to N.I. but could charge anything from £2 to £10 sterling for delivery to the Republic. In those instances there would be an opening for a "re-posting" service"

But sure we are all too busy smuggling this, that and the other to get into those things

hk797

muffler wrote:

You know there is a possibility for that if I had more time. I see that some online stores would for example deliver free to N.I. but could charge anything from £2 to £10 sterling for delivery to the Republic. In those instances there would be an opening for a "re-posting" service"

But sure we are all too busy smuggling this, that and the other to get into those things

lol ... well someones got to do it ... selling up and packing the car as i write ... setting up a reposting service next week exclusively for boards members ... glad i thought of it ... let it never be said i never gave you first refusal muffler

johnny_adidas

dont suppose u can post up any who have prices and similar stocklists to play? and who dont charge a fortune for delivery

event

will www.movietyme.com be affected?

so i ordered buzz from cdwow a few weeks ago, and was only shipped yesterday
this will get taken i reckon, was €26.99

what will i be charged?

muffler

johnny_adidas wrote:

dont suppose u can post up any who have prices and similar stocklists to play? and who dont charge a fortune for delivery

FREE DELIVERY
Cdwow.com
Blahdvd.com
DVD Plus ????
Filmnight.com
Mx2.co.uk
Sendit.com
Asda
Softprod.co.uk ???

Choicesdirect £2 per order
Loaded .com
Sainsburysentertainsyou
DVD.CO.UK - The standard shipping charge on a CD is £1.
DVD+ The charge for postage would be £2.50 for an individual cd/dvd. £1 is added for every other item added to the order

You will have to google a couple of this to get the url

johnny_adidas

cheers. im guessin all of those are UK based? (although i thought cdwow was posting from HK and sendit from somewhere similar to play) either way i think ive used loaded in the past

edit: ok cross loaded off the list, no longer in business as i cant find the site
2nd edit: cross mx2 off as well, they are based in guernsey

3rd edit: softprod isnt working either. reckon u need to update that list of yours

blorg

There is a slight difference with 7dayshop - they actually pay UK VAT on items over the exemption limit. Now while this is OK for people importing into the UK I do not know if is OK for us here (obviously would be if 7dayshop were actually shipping from mainland Britain.) It _should_ be as EU VAT has paid but that's no guarantee as it will be arriving from outside the EU.

rubadub

indiewindy wrote:

That won't work as vat and duty are charged on the total value including postage and handling. As other posters are saying stick to retailers who ship individually like play and cdwow. Sendit ship all together. The reason for the crackdown is retailers kicking up a fuss as they are being hammered by these online sellers.

Wrong, duty and vat are charged on the declared postage (i.e. stamps or courier charge) on the package and the value of the item NOT on the handling (unless somebody was foolish enough to include handling in the unit price but that is an incorrect thing to do for insurance reasons, though false prices are also incorrect for insurance reasons). They could charge whatever they want for handling, this does not have to be disclosed on the outside of the package. All in all my suggestion would work, and does work.

In a sort of similar way many ebay sellers avoid ebay fees by charging huge postage & handling fees, and very low unit cost. When the package arrives the post paid is very low, and the declared value is low, so you avoid duty too. But still some ignorant ebayers leave negative feedback even though it was cheaper than from any other seller (the reason they bought it in the first place!)

indiewindy

rubadub wrote:

Wrong, duty and vat are charged on the declared postage (i.e. stamps or courier charge) on the package and the value of the item NOT on the handling (unless somebody was foolish enough to include handling in the unit price but that is an incorrect thing to do for insurance reasons, though false prices are also incorrect for insurance reasons). They could charge whatever they want for handling, this does not have to be disclosed on the outside of the package. All in all my suggestion would work, and does work.

In a sort of similar way many ebay sellers avoid ebay fees by charging huge postage & handling fees, and very low unit cost. When the package arrives the post paid is very low, and the declared value is low, so you avoid duty too. But still some ignorant ebayers leave negative feedback even though it was cheaper than from any other seller (the reason they bought it in the first place!)

you are wrong again, duty and vat is payable on the "landed value" of the goods which is the price you pay which includes all charges involved in getting the goods to you. Here is the information taken directly from the revenue websiteCustoms Duty:
The value of the goods for the purposes of charging customs duty is calculated on the price paid or payable for the goods plus the cost of transport (including postage), insurance and any loading or handling charges associated with the delivery of the goods into the EC.

The rate of customs duty applicable can vary and depends on the nature of the goods being imported. Further information on rates of duty can be obtained by accessing Part 4 of the
Customs and Excise Tariff of Consignments not exceeding a value of €22 may be imported from outside the EC without payment of import charges. However, this relief does not apply to importations of tobacco, tobacco products, alcoholic products, undenatured perfumes or toilet waters.

muffler

johnny_adidas wrote:

cheers. im guessin all of those are UK based? (although i thought cdwow was posting from HK and sendit from somewhere similar to play) either way i think ive used loaded in the past

edit: ok cross loaded off the list, no longer in business as i cant find the site
2nd edit: cross mx2 off as well, they are based in guernsey

3rd edit: softprod isnt working either. reckon u need to update that list of yours

Yeah, it was an old list I had here on the PC so I must update it.

In fairness the sites I buy from myself would be Cdwow, Blah, Play.com and HMV an odd time.

Sendit.com are based in Belfast AFAIK

rubadub

indiewindy wrote:

you are wrong again, duty and vat is payable on the "landed value" of the goods which is the price you pay which includes all charges involved in getting the goods to you. Here is the information taken directly from the revenue websiteCustoms Duty:
The value of the goods for the purposes of charging customs duty is calculated on the price paid or payable for the goods plus the cost of transport (including postage), insurance and any loading or handling charges associated with the delivery of the goods into the EC.

The rate of customs duty applicable can vary and depends on the nature of the goods being imported. Further information on rates of duty can be obtained by accessing Part 4 of the
Customs and Excise Tariff of Consignments not exceeding a value of €22 may be imported from outside the EC without payment of import charges. However, this relief does not apply to importations of tobacco, tobacco products, alcoholic products, undenatured perfumes or toilet waters.

That maybe so but I would like to see anybody who has been charged for handling charges on a boxset of DVDs. My point is play could do this just as many sellers ALREADY do, and DO get away with. The "landed value" in this case is just the value of the goods declared + the postage, why divulge the handling, play & cdwow already do not divulge the postage. What you have quoted there is more to do with proper importation. I have never seen handling charges shown on a package containing dvds or the like. As I already said I would hope no company would be foolish enough to put handling charges displayed on the package, all that is seen is the stamps or courier charge. For insurance reasons they would have to pick a reasonable value for the goods, but they can weigh up the options, pick high and they get less customers.


In the end do you think play could get away with what I am suggesting? i.e. not openly declare the handling charge like many already do?

EDIT- I notice on http://www.revenue.ie/index.htm?/leaflets/pn1882.htm they do not explicitly state that the €22 limit includes postage, I have emailed them enquiring about this.

Tipsy Mac

Sponge Bob wrote:

This is the law and always has been the law.

So is the free movement of goods within the EU yet when it suits the government they can ignore this law in the case of VRT

sarahn11

is this just for eu goods or all goods??!

have to say.....terrible timing, they will make a mint over the xmas!! i ordered everything off the net, thought ide save my sanity from going into town on the run up to xmas!!

C*nts!

Sponge Bob

mx2 and play and 7dayshop are in the channel islands and 'outside the eu' duty wise anyway.

This rule has always been the case but its only now that revenue have cracked down on these operators where the package is worth over €22 or €23 . It applies to outside EU parcels that are POSTED . An international courier company is an agent of the revenue and administers duty if applicable but revenue are dealing with posted items themselves or so it seems.

If not posted , if couriered , its worse because the courier cost + the goods is the 'value' before duty is added , say 20% then vat at 21% is added to goods+courier+duty and the threshold is 1c not €22. The handling charge is arbitrary and is added to that again.

If teh posted item is labelled GIFT the limit is €45 (double) . Read about the courier company GLS and us postal service packages worth over €45 elsewhere on boards a few christmases back. Joe Duffy tore strips off them at the time but Revenue insisted on these christmas pressies from America being taxed at entry .

A posted CD from anywhere on the planet will always be cool as its value below that threshhold. New release DVDs and especially box sets are the big problem I'll wager.

Joe Duffy should get a call about this PDQ because the Revenue are simply being meanies stealing kids pressie DVDs at christmas from what I can see.

Joe even has an agent on Boards did ye know with contact details here

chump

indiewindy wrote:

you are wrong again, duty and vat is payable on the "landed value" of the goods which is the price you pay which includes all charges involved in getting the goods to you. Here is the information taken directly from the revenue websiteCustoms Duty:
The value of the goods for the purposes of charging customs duty is calculated on the price paid or payable for the goods plus the cost of transport (including postage), insurance and any loading or handling charges associated with the delivery of the goods into the EC.

The rate of customs duty applicable can vary and depends on the nature of the goods being imported. Further information on rates of duty can be obtained by accessing Part 4 of the
Customs and Excise Tariff of Consignments not exceeding a value of €22 may be imported from outside the EC without payment of import charges. However, this relief does not apply to importations of tobacco, tobacco products, alcoholic products, undenatured perfumes or toilet waters.

I'm lovin it!
In fairness rubadub hands should be raised when proven wrong.

I am sure I have seen 'shipping + handling' costs on packages that have arrived to me before.

Either way this renewed application of the law is rough on us all.

Our man in Havana

I suppose that the party was bound to end sometime.

Sponge Bob

Bond-007 wrote:

I suppose that the party was bound to end sometime.

Quite

The other party that will end with a crackdown is when the customs do a blitz on the shopping in America brigade either in Dublin or Shannon and either this sunday or next sunday. I have been warned to to arrive in Ireland from America on both of thise days between midday and midday monday because the queues will be diabolical and the overtime for the customs will be in their christmas pay packets too as will the overtime pay for the kids DVD crackdown.

dwaned

A friend of mine bought Buzz Sport from play.com for 44.99 and was charged a tenner plus 5 quid postage...:mad:

parsi

Tipsy Mac wrote:

So is the free movement of goods within the EU yet when it suits the government they can ignore this law in the case of VRT

Well Jersey isn't within the EU and I don't believe that it is a candidate country so free movement doesn't apply to Play.

UK customs are doing the same thing as well. At the end of the day it is a form of tax avoidance !

My last few shipments from CD-wow came through Luxembourg so they shoud be ok..

cygnet

received several games dvd's today - declared value was above whats stated and asked the postman he said its nonsense hes never heard of it !!

kahaya

Received GTA:Vice City Stories for PSP yesterday after waiting since 10 Nov. No charges at all, but did have a label on the front with MailTrace written on it. The play.com logo on the address label was hidden by the MailTrace label, and the usual envelopes that play use have play.com printed on the back but this one didn't. So don't know if anyone else has seen the MailTrace on their packages or don't know what it means.

rubadub

chump wrote:

I'm lovin it!
In fairness rubadub hands should be raised when proven wrong.

I am sure I have seen 'shipping + handling' costs on packages that have arrived to me before.

I did "raise my hand", I am accepting it might be the actual law but was saying I have never seen it been done for packages such as DVDs, and still stand by my idea that play could use this as a loophole.
I was previously saying duty & vat would only be charged on postal cost and declared value since that is what is stated on packages, I also noted that it would only be a foolish company that included the handling charge, they could have added this to the goods value if they were really foolish, same thing, just like tescos include all their overheads in the price they charge you. But why would they do this? knowing that the end customer would be charged more duty? and probably not do business with them again. It is in their interest to have low values declared, so most companies do.

Do you think play could get away with my suggestion?

Has anybody else here ever seen handling charges explicitly stated on the outside of a package containing dvds or stuff of a similar low value from an online store?

I have ordered many gallons of vodka online for half price, and have never been charge duty, because the company I buy from has cop-on, and is fully obeying the law.

blorg

sarahn11 wrote:

is this just for eu goods or all goods??!

have to say.....terrible timing, they will make a mint over the xmas!! i ordered everything off the net, thought ide save my sanity from going into town on the run up to xmas!!

C*nts!

It's for anything coming from _outside_ the EU. There is no duty or additional VAT paid on anything bought from within the EU VAT area (which includes EEA countries such as Norway/Iceland/Lichtenstein but excludes the Channel Islands, Canaries, etc.)

datk

Sponge Bob wrote:

Quite

The other party that will end with a crackdown is when the customs do a blitz on the shopping in America brigade either in Dublin or Shannon and either this sunday or next sunday. I have been warned to to arrive in Ireland from America on both of thise days between midday and midday monday because the queues will be diabolical and the overtime for the customs will be in their christmas pay packets too as will the overtime pay for the kids DVD crackdown.

Is this is the annual warning or a specific threat!! I'm flying back Monday week, I've found a Post Office opened on Sunday so I'm going to post any "bits" like user manuals, cables etc. Just my luck the feckers decide to put in a bit of overtime!!:mad:

johnny_adidas

well i duno if this is a help or a hindrance but i received a package sent only a couple of days ago from hong kong with a value of nearly 250 euro and no charges were applied. (its was sent by EMS and marked as gift) maybe it slipped through. def wasnt opened by customs anyway.

rubadub

rubadub wrote:

EDIT- I notice on http://www.revenue.ie/index.htm?/leaflets/pn1882.htm they do not explicitly state that the €22 limit includes postage, I have emailed them enquiring about this.

Got my reply and they said

I can confirm the value for Customs purposes is the CIF price, Cost,
Insurance and Freight.

If there is anything further please get back to me.

Regards

So beware of getting stuff sent express from the states, it can be pricey. Seemd from this and other threads they are targetting play. I have got stuff openly marked as $350 with hefty postage before and no charges.
I only hope play and cdwow keep on hiding the postage costs.

Sponge Bob

datk wrote:

Is this is the annual warning or a specific threat!! I'm flying back Monday week, I've found a Post Office opened on Sunday so I'm going to post any "bits" like user manuals, cables etc. Just my luck the feckers decide to put in a bit of overtime!!:mad:

I was told some time back by someone who works in there that they are planning a crackdown for max publicity and will have RTÉ and all the rest there to cover it etc etc. Then they will have blown their overtime budget for december (or the whole year) in those 24 hours and will only have normal service thereafter. We all know what normal service is

datk

Sponge Bob wrote:

I was told some time back by someone who works in there that they are planning a crackdown for max publicity and will have RTÉ and all the rest there to cover it etc etc. Then they will have blown their overtime budget for december (or the whole year) in those 24 hours and will only have normal service thereafter. We all know what normal service is

Hopefully it's this weekend!! I'll keep my eyes on the news!!

datk

Sponge Bob wrote:

I was told some time back by someone who works in there that they are planning a crackdown for max publicity and will have RTÉ and all the rest there to cover it etc etc. Then they will have blown their overtime budget for december (or the whole year) in those 24 hours and will only have normal service thereafter. We all know what normal service is

Doesn't look like it happened this weekend - hopefully it's just the annual scare - I'm travelling next week. Looks like I'll have to take my chances!!:o

standbyme

Hi all,

Can you tell me is it just stuff from playusa that's gettin affected as i rang up play.com & the fella had no idea what i was talkin about, sayin that theyre in the EU! & sayin:
"what you see is what you get charged"

i came across this similar thread before i could get to post this http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055022697

As the number is there to contact them from here (theyre based in belfast/jersey) Also i told him that number on the website you cant contact them & the number for here he was about to tell me what it was (idiot-how else did i get through!) So he said 'oh, i'll pass it on to the IT guys'

So let me know if its from the us as i'd like to get some seinfeld from the site.

Cheers

The tax man

Just wondering if anyone got stung yet by customs.
My boxset from Play.com came today valued at €37.49 and the postman just handed it over at the door. Happy days.:D

alastair_doom

All my cdwow stuff <22euro came in lovely envelopes with "VAT payed in Luxembourg" printed on the top.

thumbs up cdwow

makker2712

It should be noted that in most cases 99 out of 100 that the customs charges are actually being collected on behalf of revenue by outside agencies ie UPS, TNT and An Post and as such therefore collect a small percentage of the collection.

Goods are normally charged at the stated rates listed on packages, however if it is felt that the item in question is deliberately undervalued then customs can then value the goods ie look in any catalogue and charge duty and or VAT on the revised value. :cool:

The tax man

alastair_doom wrote:

All my cdwow stuff <22euro came in lovely envelopes with "VAT payed in Luxembourg" printed on the top.

thumbs up cdwow

Funny you mentioned that. I noticed on the label "import vat pre-paid" printed on it. Don't know if that's always been there but I ain't moaning.

blorg

makker2712 wrote:

It should be noted that in most cases 99 out of 100 that the customs charges are actually being collected on behalf of revenue by outside agencies ie UPS, TNT and An Post and as such therefore collect a small percentage of the collection.

More precisely, they charge a fixed "handling fee" rather than a percentage, that is the same irrespective of the value.

alastair_doom wrote:

All my cdwow stuff <22euro came in lovely envelopes with "VAT payed in Luxembourg" printed on the top.]

Makes sense that they would pay it there, Luxembourg has the lowest VAT rate in the EU at 15%.

damiennolan

I have a question..

I have ordered 3 dvd boxsets from play.com over the past few weeks ranging in price from €30 to €100.

All have arrived over a week long period. I was not asked for any extra money.

How long does it normally take to receive a "VAT/cash request" letter?

Our man in Havana

You get the letter before receiving the goods, so it looks like your in the clear.