MW Radio

Elmo

Are there many new radios being sold with MW (medium wave) installed?

I have just noticed that most radios only have AM/FM signals.

Which gets me asking why do RTE Radio broadcast alternative programming on RTE RADIO 1 MW when newer radios cann't pick it up?

Is the AM spectrum used at all?

If this needs to be moved to Radio thats ok only I have seen some threads on Radio in Broadcasting.

Also this question could apply to LW

Mossy Monk

isnt MW and AM the same thing?

i may be confused by something else

BuffyBot

AM is pretty much the same as MW

DMC

I've always considered AM to be what Americans call Medium Wave.

In a lot of car stereos, the AM band covers LW and MW.

byte

Yes, AM = MW in basic terms. Most radios are at least FM and MW (though FM-only radios are very common too), though less cover LW also.

Foggy43

Elmo! I'm sure you are in Ireland but I do not know which part. If you are in the North maybe you are referring to DAB, the new radios.

Nearly, if not all DAB Radios do not have AM/MW or LW.

I maybe completly wrong here but I do remember RTE marketing VHF/FM for clearer, interference free music listening. I have become to associate AM/MW as the sport and chat show wave band and FM/VHF for music. Before the days of Radio 5 BBC Radio 2 would broadcast live sport on their AM/MW/LW frequencies and their normal schedule on FM/VHF. I think RTE did the same.
Yes! I can remember when BBC Radio 2 was on LW before changing to AM/MW:(

DMC

Molly Dawson wrote:

I have become to associate AM/MW as the sport and chat show wave band and FM/VHF for music. Before the days of Radio 5 BBC Radio 2 would broadcast live sport on their AM/MW/LW frequencies and their normal schedule on FM/VHF. I think RTE did the same.
Yes! I can remember when BBC Radio 2 was on LW before changing to AM/MW:(

The night/morning of 22nd/23rd November 1978 was when the BBC frequency changes occurred.

watty

AM and FM can be used on any spectrum They are modulation types.

LF/LW, MF/MW and SW/HF spectrum usually have AM. In the longer term from 150Khz to 30MHz, (LW/MW/SW), Digital Radio Mondial (DRM) is replacing AM and also eventually SSB on 1.6Mhz to 30MHz will be phased out for ships and aircraft.
VHF is 76MHz to 110MHz, depending on region tends to use FM
Alos VHF is 116MHz to 137MHz tends to use AM for Aircraft

FM may be replaced by variations of DRM and DAB.

Analogue TV uses vistigial sideband AM video, with FM mono sound and NIcam digital for Stereo. It is gradually being replaced by Digital.

Most AM/FM radios in fact have MW & VHF, or MW/LW and VHF. Some have SW/HF too, but I've never seen SW on a car radio, though some have DAB.

Some high end Sony Portables have:
150KHz to 30MHz continious AM, narrow AM, SSB
118.. 136MHz Airband VHF AM
88MHz .. 108MHz Broadcast VHF FM.

Some radios have AM/FM, LW,MW,SW, VHF and Worldspace Satellite Digital, and/or DRM and /or DAB.

watty

DMC wrote:

The night/morning of 22nd/23rd November 1978 was when the BBC frequency changes occurred.

I remember the night the Original Caroline stopped and the time Home, Third and Light became boringly named 4, 3, 2 and 1 was added.

Elmo

Thanks.

Having a problem tuning RTE Radio 1 on AM. I think it is the ariel.

Foggy43

DMC

DMC wrote:

The night/morning of 22nd/23rd November 1978 was when the BBC frequency changes occurred.

Oh my god! Almost 30 years ago now! I am getting on a bit! Even Terry Wogan is still there on BBC Radio 2

watty

Elmo wrote:

Thanks.

Having a problem tuning RTE Radio 1 on AM. I think it is the ariel.

252KHz or 567KHz?
Car or or home?

Foggy43

Watty!

watty wrote:

LF/LW, MF/MW and SW/HF spectrum usually have AM. In the longer term from 150Khz to 30MHz, (LW/MW/SW), Digital Radio Mondial (DRM) is replacing AM and also eventually SSB on 1.6Mhz to 30MHz will be phased out for ships and aircraft.
VHF is 76MHz to 110MHz, depending on region tends to use FM
Alos VHF is 116MHz to 137MHz tends to use AM for Aircraft.

SSB for aircraft is supposed to be getting phased out. All the 'big' airlines are behind this but it is a question of cost and getting all countries to change. Easier said than done. Most new aircraft have both HF an Satcoms but I am pretty sure Satcoms is an optional extra. It will be a pity should the HF station at Ballgirreen go.

I just want to clear something. Is DRM a digital radio service, using a frequency between 150khz to 30mhz? Is there a set standard?
Would I be correct in saying DAB in the UK uses Band 111 VHF but it could use a Band 1, 11, 111, IV or V frequency?

Elmo

252KHz or 567KHz?
Car or or home?

At home. 567KHz AM/MW. 252KHz LW?, I don't have long wave on the radio.

Found it, Its just a really bad reception.

Thanks.

watty

Molly Dawson wrote:

Watty!



I just want to clear something. Is DRM a digital radio service, using a frequency between 150khz to 30mhz? Is there a set standard?
Would I be correct in saying DAB in the UK uses Band 111 VHF but it could use a Band 1, 11, 111, IV or V frequency?

There is a range of quality possible on DRM to suit 150KHz to 30MHz and also VHF too. There is proposed both a V2 of DAB, DRM and a newer DRM all as possible VHF Digital. DVB-h and DVB-T can also be used for "radio" on VHF/UHF

Yes on Band III DAB. DAB, DRM, DVb-h and DVB-t can also use L-Band. Som DAB radios have L-Band. (close to Satellite "worldspace" digital broadcast frequencies).

The USA also has Sirius system for satellite radio.

Antenna

Elmo wrote:

Found it, Its just a really bad reception.

Try rotating the radio to optimise reception. On portable radios the telescopic aerial (or wire dangling out the back on clock radios) is for FM and does not act as the aerial for MW/LW which is picked up by a ferrite bar inside the radio which has maximum pickup broadside. Some radios (hi-fi tuners, combis) have a MW/LW frame aerial which is plugged in the back for, again position for best reception.

If you are in a steel-framed building this can badly affect MW/LW and best reception would usually be by putting the radio beside windows.

You could also have a very poor quality radio. Radios of the 'jWIN' brand - I have found to be appallingly bad.

Foggy43

I have lived at the same address in a built up area of London for the last 12 years. MW, LW and SW reception has deteriorated. I had to erect an outdoor band 11 aerial to get good FM reception.
I just tried 198khz and 252khz LW. Nothing but a buzz. Oh dear too close to my Laptop. Move away and no buzz and no reception either.

It is a case of the costruction industry finding grass and building tall because they can't go wide. Signal is getting blocked.

watty

Energy saver lamps. Plasma & LCDs worse than CRT TVs. "Electronic" "transformerless" (SMPSU) 12V halogen light power units, transformerless phone chargers ... etc

I get 198KHz nearly perfectly in Limerick (9km west of city centre) here in bedroom but not at all in kitchen. The car radio is good except under power lines. I can tell if they are live! Here the powerlines wipe out reception (R4 198KHz) entirely. On East coast, just make it very bad.

252KHz just needs a wire and earphone

Foggy43

Watty!
Just read your list! Ive got everything!

In just over 3 weeks in will be 30km (Better put my metric head on again) south east of Limerick city and expect no 198khz or 252khz reception problems.

I assume the Radio 4 we receive in Limerick is coming from a transmitter up North.

watty

Not on LW, no. All the way from Droitwitch. I've seen the poles for the aerial too. Not that far from Worchester / Evesham etc.

I can get R. Ulster & R. Devon very poor during day in car, and better at night (Virgin on MW from London then too)

Give a shout when you going past

Ulsterman 1690

The night/morning of 22nd/23rd November 1978 was when the BBC frequency changes occurred.

I just about remember that. Back in those days most radios had the approximate dial positions of major European stations marked which caused a lot of confusion when BBC4 appeared at "BBC2" (or "Light") BBC3 appeared at "BBC1" etc etc

Is the Droitwich TX on lower power than it used to be ?

The reason I ask is back in the seventies that when BBC Radio 2 were on LW they were widely listened to throughout Ireland (there being only one national RTE station and the odd pirate) but the signal from Droitwich nowadays in most parts of Ireland while listenable is hardly good enough for music.

Even here in Northern Ireland it is pretty poor (although I suspect its mainly down to phasing interference from the two Scottish transmitters)

Were people back in the seventies more tolerant of poor reception (nothing else to listen to ???) , were the signals stronger back then or were radios better at recieving weak stations ?

Incidently there are no longwave transmitters in NI. Only MW and FM (not to mention DAB)

I remember the night the Original Caroline stopped and the time Home, Third and Light became boringly named 4, 3, 2 and 1 was added

The original UK offshore stations stopped a couple of weeks before the BBC shake up but "the original Caroline" actually struggled on for a few months only to disappear and then reemerge in various guises over the following decades

Foggy43

I found this info on Droitwich!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/transmitters/radio_trans/medium_long_wave.shtml

There seems to be no power change on R4 LW. I also found the location of the other 2 R4 LW transmitters

http://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/transmitters/radio_trans/index.shtml

I dug out my Roberts R817 and just as I expected totally contradicted me on MW. No reception problem but LW is about zero. I also have the Piccadilly / District Line about 50 metres behind me and above. It is interference causing the problem.

With Alan Freeman sadly passing away it doesn't leave a lot of entertaining DJ's on radio.

I can remember listening to Radio Luxembourg. Was it 208 Metres MW? Keep turning the dial back and forward, turning the radio and holding it over your head, trying to get reception back when in fact there was nothing you could really do about it. They were the days! I'd rather not be reminded how long ago that was

watty

Noise levels have been rising steadily due to man made interference. Out in countryside here away from house LW R4 can be quite good.

Also fewer decent LW radios with 6" long ferrite rods.

My 150KHz to 30MHz Sony ICF2001D is quite good.

My Yaesu FT817 and Racal/Grinell Syncal30/TR48 both are OK on LW if you have more than 20m of wire outdoor (ideally much more). I must try a loop aerial. I made up a ferrite rod with tuning capacitor and 2N3819 FET as buffer to the 50 Ohm BNC connector but very weak signal.

Foggy43

I have an AOR 8200 Mk111 which gives the best LW reception. It comes with a seperate MW/LW antenna.

Do you need a license to own / operate a Yaesu FT817. I see it transmits on HF 2cm, 6cm and 70cm bands What frequencies are these? 27mhz? What is the range?

watty

You need in UK an Amatuer Licence or in Ireland a Wireless Experimenter Licence. Its only short comming really as a scanner is that it cant do 54MHz to 88MHz (4M band is 70MHz) and it can't listen to Marine 156 .. 162MHz.

It has 5W TX power on SSB and FM and about 2W on AM Transmit. Range depends on wave band, aerial, height, sun activity, solar wind, time of day, air pressure, season, 11 year sunspot cycle etc..

Using a 10ft high Military Biconical aeiral (erects on lawn in about 5 minutes out of a canvas carry bag) my best range was Kazakstan on 18MHz and Germany on 50MHz and Italy on 28MHz. But conditions were good.

It does all the Amateur bands and broadcast on SW (1.8MHz to 30MHZ) Receives 150Khz to 30MHz, only TX on actual Amateur bands e.g. 40m = 7.0MHz to 7.2MHz

6m = 50 .. 52MHz
2m = 144 .. 146MHz
70cm = 430 .. 440MHz
It can listen but not TX on PMR446
It also receives WB FM on 88 .. 108 MHz (Band II Radio)
and AM on 108 .. 137Hz (Air Band).

The main reason it is no use for 4m band (70MHz) is that the 1st IF internally is close to 70MHz! (Normal radios are 10.7MHz )

I'm not sure why it can't do Marine band, I have 3 other radios that can however. Important out boating to listen to Ch16

watty

27MHz = 11M = CB
28MHz .. 29.7MHz = 10M = Amateur

Actually depending on country CB varies from nearly 26MHz to slightly more than 28MHz

mike65

I've noticed the MW/LW recption picking up in the winter days, I could listen to 198 LW over in the Limerick in the van today and very good in the car commuting back into Waterford. Nice to have the extra stations (or put another way nice to avoid the "usual suspects" every now and again!).

Mike.

watty

The worst time for R4 LW is at Dusk and Dawn, when Nighttime SkyWave and daytime Groundwave are similar strength. After dark reception is by much stronger Skywave. I also get the main French LW station in Limerick / Dublin/Dundalk on car radio. Of course it is a French Car

Foggy43

Thankyou for the info Watty.
I notice there is a variation on the Yaesu FT817. The Yaesu FT817ND seems to be still available but for the American market only but it seems to be available in the UK. The difference I noticed is the ND can receive Aircraft VHF.

Yes I do remember CB radio. Hit 'Send' and completley block RTE1 Channel B. RTE Band 1 of course is now history.

watty

ND is the current 817. The 817 without ND is obsolete years ago.

The US & European models of all radios & TV are different due to differnt standards and laws and wavebands.

Indeed mine is 817ND and does RX. Aircraft. None do marine.

I bought mine from Netherlands saving some 200 Euro on UK dealer mail order and up to 350 Euro on Irish dealers. Some friends got ones from Germany slightly cheaper but the wavebands for TX where not quite right and they had to post them pack for an adjustment, losing most of the saving.

There are a lot differences of various of bands legal to TX in different countries.

The safeset plase for my TV aerial is on my Transmitter mast as the signal is VERY weak just below the Transmitter aerial.

Mobile phone masts are the same. Within about 20ft there is hardly any signal on the ground at all as the beam is shaped to give range and not bounce of the ground nearby.

Foggy43

The 817ND is currently £350 in the UK or that is the best price I found so far.

How popular is Amateur Radio in Ireland? I as wondering what VHF Repeaters do?

watty

It isn't very popular anywhere.

The exams in UK (3 stages of licence) or exam in Ireland (1 licence equivalent to UK full Licence) aren't very hard though.

Repeaters are 8W to 50W simultanous TX and RX on two separate frequencies on vey high sites like mountains allowing hand held maybe 20 miles range, Mobile 40 to 80miles and basestations at home up to 120 Miles from repeater.

Some repeaters are linked by radio or by Internet.

"Simplex" operation users use one frequency they both TX and RX on.
"Repeater" is a little like half Duplex. On VHF your TX frequency is 600kHz below your RX. The "Repeater" runs full duplex with the frequency shift of course reversed.

UHF repeaters use +1.6 or +7.6MHz shift. 10M/29MHz repeaters use 100kHz shift and usually two sites (one TX and one RX 5km to 10km apart) linked by VHF, UHF or WiFi.