What should be mandatory?

Seth Brundle

We don't really have mandatory requirements like on the continent. Should we make carrying a spare set of bulbs compulsory? Or what about a high viz vest given that we have more motorways now? Or even something like a simple tow rope?
Thoughts?

Alun

Add a warning triangle, and a first-aid kit to that list too, all of which (except the tow-rope) I have in my car ... comes from decades of living on the continent where such things are compulsory, I suppose.

The spare bulbs should definitely be made compulsory IMO.

Larry David

I keep spare bulbs, jump leads, a warning triangle, a first-aid kit, basic tools, a torch w/ car charger, and an AA membership - all in a Superquinn green bag (bar the triangle & AA card), so it doen't even take up much room.

slickmcvic

Dont believe in enforcement but i'd deffo Recommend a mobile air compressor that plugs into the lighter socket and jump leads!!

Henry Ford III

Turning off fog lights should be compulsory unless they are used in fog or falling snow.

Sorry it already is, but is simply ignored by many, and the law is not enforced.

Check this.

peasant

Same here ...

Got warning triangle, first aid kit, spare bulbs and tow rope ...old habits die hard.

But what's to be gained by making it mandatory?

Do you honestly expect people to actually notice and replace blown bulbs there and then? Actually putting up a warning triangle? In the correct place and not just directly behind the car? Would anybody know what the triangle means once it is actually up?

Would the garda start searching your vehicle for these items now, once they have you stopped for whatever reason?

All I'd expect out of this is just a lot more moaning and groaning about nanny state, garda harassment, fleecing the motorist etc... and no real benefits.

What's needed is proper, mandatory drivers education that among other things also covers the proper use and advantage of the above items.

Once people cop on to what they're for, they might actually WANT to have them with them.

Alun

peasant wrote:

But what's to be gained by making it mandatory?

Well, in Germany and Holland if you're stopped by the police for having a light out (yes, a strange concept, I know, but it does happen!) then they expect you to replace it there and then, and if you do so they generally let you off, but if you've not got the bulbs with you then it's an instant fine. You can bet your bottom dollar, they won't be without them again.

Mind you, if you ask some dealers here in Ireland if they have a replacement bulb kit for your car, they look at you as if you've got two heads! I had to make do with a cardboard box with loose bulbs rattling around rather than the nice foam lined plastic boxes with one of each bulb and a few spare fuses for good measure that seem to be readily available everywhere else.

towger

Fire Extinguisher is also compulsary in some countries.

Anan1

A can of TyreWeld is also a good thing to have in the boot.

kevodaly

In my opinion, it should be compulsory to have headlights switched on at all times of the day, regardless of weather conditions or brightness etc.

I think it should be of more concern of the RSA that there are so many cars being driven without any form of lights on, that focusing on the people driving with front fog lights on.

I wonder which is higher, the number of accidents caused by misuse of front fog lamps, or the number of accidents caused by cars with no lights on at all.

I don't drive with front fog lights on unnecessarily, but I do drive with lights on all the time. It doesn't cost me anything.

Fey!

I have warning triangle, toolkit, first aid kit, jump leads, tow rope, high viz jacket, tyre weld, spare fuses, torch and fire extinguiser in the spare wheel. I don't have a compressor/booster pack in there any more, nor do I carry a trolley jack anymore. I don't have spare bulbs either (oversight on my part, tbh), but I tend to stop at the next garage when a warning light comes on for a blown bulb (has anyone else noticed how few garages now stock spare bulbs and fuses?).

Have only used the triangle once when assisting a woman broken down in the right lane of the Quincentenial Bridge (50kph dual carraigeway) with her 3 kids in the car! (she was there 15 minutes when I stopped, and a guy from the Peugeot garage stopped at the same time). We had to tow her car to the nearest garage and then go back for the other guys car (he had it pulled up onto the path so as not to obstruct the road). I couldn't believe that nobody else even checked to see that she was OK!

Henry Ford III

I'm doing a good bit a walking in the evenings these days and reckon that over 40% of cars I see have something wrong with their lights:

1/. Blown bulbs.
2/. Fogs on when they shouldn't.
3/. No lights on at all.

A simple "on the spot" financial penalty would address this issue. No need for penalty points.

Even and consistant enforcement is the key.

MercMad

I was on the M1 last week in a Merc Sprinter Van and this woman flew past me in a grey Yaris, or some such, in the rain at about 3.30PM. She had no lights on and she dissapeared into the spray........I knew she was there but couldn't see the car !

I came up behind her at the airport, flashing my lights. She looked in the mirror but never twigged. I had to pull up beside her and tell her to put on the lights.........."Its not dark enough yet " she said !!

My jaw dropped and again she was gone before I could retaliate ! Now THAT is the type of idiot who pulls their car over onto the central resrvation to change a tyre and not only has no clew where the spare is, but they have no idea how to change it and they deffinitely do not have a high viz vest, a trangle or spare bulbs !

I feel it should be part of the NCT test, it IS road safety after all !

Having said that most rear bulbs are easy to change but some of the front headlamp assemblies have to come out before one can replace a bulb. I would expect anyone to have to dissemble their car, there and then, in order to fit a bulb !

peasant

MercMad wrote:

I feel it should be part of the NCT test, it IS road safety after all !

/ runs off to open a triangle - high viz - bulb kit - hire business

gonna make a fortune, I tells ya !

ninty9er

Well I think DRL should be made compulsoy by statute, making it illegal for manufacturers' distributors to bring in cars without DRL, such as was done with ABS in 2004. If Saab and Volvo can do it, why can't everyone else. It removes the need for at least one switch in most cars.

Yup bulbs are a good idea. I do have a spare set, but not in the car, because frankly nothing distracts me more than a small rattle in the glovebox or boot.

I'm goin to look into getting some velcro strips during the holidays in January though when I have time on my hands.

And on the topic of fog lights, the front ones don't bother me, but I was stuck behind a new 156 going through town lastnight and the same one again tonight, i had to put sunglasses on in the dark. I only drive a 00 Corsa nad they switch off automatically when you turn off the headlights and don't come on the next time unless you hit the button for them

bazz26

I agree with all the things listed so far.

How many people actually check the condition of their spare tyre regularly or carry a simple thing like a torch or jack in the car?

It happened to a friend of mine some time back where he had a puncture and when he went to change the tyre he found that the jack was missing and the spare wheel was practically bald. Luckily he was not too far from home and had to call me to bring a jack down to him. He bought the car used about 2 years before and never checked the spare or jack. He would have been in right trouble if he was stranded on a back road in the middle of nowhere.

Most people take these tools for granted until the time arrives when they need them. The amount of rubbish that people carry around with then in the boot of their car yet they don't have the right tools that can get them home in the event of a break down.

Anan1

kevodaly wrote:

In my opinion, it should be compulsory to have headlights switched on at all times of the day, regardless of weather conditions or brightness etc.

I think it should be of more concern of the RSA that there are so many cars being driven without any form of lights on, that focusing on the people driving with front fog lights on.

I wonder which is higher, the number of accidents caused by misuse of front fog lamps, or the number of accidents caused by cars with no lights on at all.

I don't drive with front fog lights on unnecessarily, but I do drive with lights on all the time. It doesn't cost me anything.

I agree with you regarding headlights, but fail to see the relevance to your point of the misuse of foglights.

colm_mcm

There is an unbelievable amount of cars going around with one headlight blown. I was travelling along a 1 mile stretch last night (not a busy road,) and counted 4 cars with one light out. I had 300m before i came to a roundabout, I bet myself that I'd see another before I came to the roundabout (as you do!) sure enough, there was one! I'm sure these people know but can't be arsed to fix it.

Even if it was manditory to carry replacement bulbs, people couldn't or wouldn't change them.

maidhc

colm_mcm wrote:

There is an unbelievable amount of cars going around with one headlight blown.

There sure is! I think it is because changing bulb for most people involves a trip to a mechanic. A reflection on them rather than the car.

colm_mcm

maidhc wrote:

A reflection on them rather than the car.

Ever tried to replace a headlight on some cars? need to strip half the engine bay, or in some cases remove the headlight unit!

Someone told me that you need to clip off the bumper in the new Fiestas to replace the headlamp bulbs! (not sure how true that is!)

bazz26

colm_mcm wrote:

Ever tried to replace a headlight on some cars? need to strip half the engine bay, or in some cases remove the headlight unit!

Someone told me that you need to clip off the bumper in the new Fiestas to replace the headlamp bulbs! (not sure how true that is!)

Yes, the 2003 - 2006 Avensis is the same. It is pretty tight getting your hand down into the engine bay to get at the bracket of the front headlights. Not sure about the facelifted Avensis though.

The Mazda 6 is equally difficult to change a front bulb.

colm_mcm

the facelifted model is just as difficult, the ABS unit gets in the way on the drivers side, and the air filter on the other. right pain! that said, I'd get it replaced ASAP

maidhc

I read on the net about how hard it was to change the bulbs in a the Focus. People had all kinds of solutions from taking out the lights to removing the battery.

It took under 15mins to replace both dipped headlamp bulbs. Only one blew, but I replaced both of them for the sake of it.

colm_mcm

Mondeo is very easy. unit clips out IIRC

greglo23

On the new Megane you have to remove the bumper and the new Focus,Beetle and Polo the headlight has to be removed to change the bulb. Also most new cars have a smaller bulb which is a pain to fit correctly as it has only one locating pin. the amount of these i've seen badly fitted including main stealer fitting has to be seen to be believed.

kevodaly

Anan1 wrote:

I agree with you regarding headlights, but fail to see the relevance to your point of the misuse of foglights.

I included my point about mis-use of front fog lights because it was mentioned in the quote below.

Henry Ford III wrote:

Turning off fog lights should be compulsory unless they are used in fog or falling snow.

Sorry it already is, but is simply ignored by many, and the law is not enforced.

Check this.

By the way, do the RSA set out the laws for the road, or do they set out guidelines ?
Is it really against the law to have your fog lights on without fog or falling snow?
If it is against the law, then surely driving without headlights on in failing light or rain or anything less than perfect driving conditions should be against the law too.

digweed

the new vectra is a pita to change, they changed the way the dip bulbs are held in from the old spring to three 'hook' things that are a b1tch to work with, and there is no room behind the passenger side one, at least with the drivers sides you can shift the airbox a little but you'll still be left with bleeding knuckles. i found the mk2 mondeo handy enough to fit, dont know about the newer models, my own e39 bmw couldn't be easier, plenty of room and each bulb has its' own holder that rotates out of the headlight.

D.

WizZard

kevodaly wrote:

Is it really against the law to have your fog lights on without fog or falling snow?

Yes, there was a link in a post here before where it was brought up in the Dáil and it was shown to be against the law.
Earlier this year IIRC

maidhc

WizZard wrote:

Yes, there was a link in a post here before where it was brought up in the Dáil and it was shown to be against the law.
Earlier this year IIRC

You are not surely suggesting TDs understand the law?

FYi Art 49(1)(b)(8) of si189/1963:

(8) Where a vehicle equipped with a fog lamp within the meaning of article 44 of these Regulations is used in a public place, such lamp shall be used only in fog or while snow is falling.

However, I don't think non-compliance with this attracts a penalty. I am open to correction, but the legislation specifies certain articles to which a penalty attaches, but art 49 does not seem to be one.

I think relying on a 1963 definition of "Fog lamp" is a bit questionable also.

(There may be a more recent statutory instrument that 1963, but I can't find it...)

Silvera

I have been doing a 3-hour round trip to work over the last week and the amount of cars with either...

- No lights switched on, or
- One light gone, or
- Front fog lights switched on

....is unreal!! :eek:

There really needs to be an urgent introduction of an on-the-spot fine for such offences!


Likewise the amount of cyclists out with no lights needs to be addressed with an on-the-spot fine!

Just yesterday morning at 6.30am I was overtaking a car on a straight road and all of a sudden I saw amber reflectors on my right!! ....i.e. the reflectors on the pedals of a bike. Luckily I managed to pass between the car and cyclist safely. But what an idiot was that cyclist!!! ...riding in almost pitch dark with no lights whatsoever:mad:

On-the-spot fines should also be brought in for car trailers used with no lights/indicators/number plates.


Anyway back to the topic....

What needs to be mandatory is..........

- DRL's on all vehicles
- Warning Triangle, First Aid Kit, Fire Extingusher, Bulb Kit in all cars/vans/trucks
- Rear 'Slow Vehicle' sign on all tractors, JCB's, etc (see pic below)
- Amber flashing Roof Light on all slow-moving-vehicles

(Nearly all of these are already compulsory in most EU countries...Ireland needs to catch up!)


Re: Bulb Kits.....Lidl do sets for about €5 ever so often, so keep a look out for these.

maidhc

Silvera wrote:

I have been doing a 3-hour round trip to work over the last week and the amount of cars with either...

- No lights switched on, or
- One light gone, or
- Front fog lights switched on

....is unreal!! :eek:

The fog lights being on is by far the lesser of these evils. I really don't see the big issue. Maybe it is me, but they are not half as blinding as a set of HIDs coming towards you.

Silvera wrote:

Likewise the amount of cyclists out with no lights needs to be addressed with an on-the-spot fine!

Just yesterday morning at 6.30am I was overtaking a car on a straight road and all of a sudden I saw amber reflectors on my right!! ....i.e. the reflectors on the pedals of a bike. Luckily I managed to pass between the car and cyclist safely. But what an idiot was that cyclist!!! ...riding in almost pitch dark with no lights whatsoever:mad:

I see this every evening around UCC. Worst thing is if you in a car knock them down you are pretty much screwed.

Silvera wrote:

- DRL's on all vehicles
- Warning Triangle, First Aid Kit, Fire Extingusher, Bulb Kit in all cars/vans/trucks
- Rear 'Slow Vehicle' sign on all tractors, JCB's, etc (see pic below)
- Amber flashing Roof Light on all slow-moving-vehicles

SMV signs should be compulsory, but as it stands even using an amber flashing light on a tractor appears to be illegal.

Silvera

maidhc wrote:

The fog lights being on is by far the lesser of these evils. I really don't see the big issue. Maybe it is me, but they are not half as blinding as a set of HIDs coming towards you.

SMV signs should be compulsory, but as it stands even using an amber flashing light on a tractor appears to be illegal.

Fog lights create an extra hazard to oncoming motorists, or when the vehicle behind you has their fogs on.

One of the worst of such cases are Renault Traffic vans which have round fogs low in their bumpers....which creates the situation of 4 x big lights coming towards you instead of just two! ...likewise trucks with fogs on :mad:

Vans and trucks headlights by their nature are high up and cause a lot of glare when travelling behind you....now add in another set of 'headlights' (i.e. their fogs) and it makes things even worse!

God knows that driving can be challenging enough without creating extra unnessecary hazards by using fog lights!


Re; Amber Lights being technically illegal on slow vehicles....
Yes, this is the current situation, but if a garda summonsed someone for using one of them, then he/she is a fool.....and I have been told this by other gardaí

colm_mcm

Silvera wrote:

- Rear 'Slow Vehicle' sign on all tractors, JCB's, etc (see pic below)

Would most people not know that a JCB will be slow? (excluding Fastrac!)

peasant

colm_mcm wrote:

Would most people not know that a JCB will be slow? (excluding Fastrac!)

At night all you see is a dark shape and two red lights (if you're lucky) ...difficult to guage speed from that.

maidhc

colm_mcm wrote:

Would most people not know that a JCB will be slow? (excluding Fastrac!)

I met one at night once with NO lights... but that is a different story.

The SMV is very useful on traliers where it isn't obvious what speed they may be travelling at. This is particularly so on dual carriageways(and motorways*) where a car can bear down on a tractor at an alarming speed (I have been at both sides of this particular fence).

*Tractors with a speed of 50k are legal on them.

Rowley Birkin QC

Mate bought a jap import Integra Type R lately and there was a space in the passenger footwell for an emergency flare! how cool is that? asked the guy who brought it in from Japland to get one for him and sure enough it slotted right into place.

Guy:Incognito

Henry Ford III wrote:

Turning off fog lights should be compulsory unless they are used in fog or falling snow.

Sorry it already is, but is simply ignored by many, and the law is not enforced.

Check this.

I cant see why manufacturers dont have some sort or warning sound for when you have your fogs on. ie if you have it on for more than 10 mins, a bell should start chiming until you turn it off. If you are genuinely infog you could flick it off and on.

My uncle had an early 90's mazda estate (iirc) years ago that had a bell for when you went over the speed limit. Unfortunately it was an import and the speed limit in Japan must be around 100km. Was very annoying on long straight roads.:)

wingnut

Had a Honda Civic Shuttle that had the speed warning on it too. I have a MK 2 Mondeo and the instructions to change the bulb are as follows:

1. Remove the front Grille.
2. Unbolt and remove both headlights.

Crazy, I can just about manage to change them without doing this but it is very tricky. The funniest thing about it is it is in the 'roadside emergencies' section so your there at night by the side of the road taking off the front grille and headlights.

You would think there would be one guy in the design team who might say " hay maybe we should make the bulbs a easier to change!"