Women in Martial Arts

47MartialMan

Women In Martial Arts

Nature has made the female gender of most species less dominate than their male counterparts. Can women become utilitarian in martial arts despite their lesser physical being?

47MartialMan

To approach it-how many women one can observe who actually view matches, come on forums, and etc., in terms of martial arts verses men?

damo

Holy crap, do you seriously have nothing better to do than reply to your own bull**** rants?

You must really need a 'less dominate than their male counterparts'-friend...there are lots more fun things to do with your time with one of them you know.

mikeruurds

I let my wife put me into full mount regularly... does that make me weak?

47Martialman... your posts bore the hell out of me.

Mike

Baggio...

47MartialMan wrote:

lesser physical being?

Uh oh... I think your post is going to go down like a lead balloon - but I guess that that's the general intention.

I was originally training with a girl who had a Black Belt in Kick boxing (while I took a break from Kenpo). I can tell you know, despite her smaller frame she packed a hell of a punch and had lots of speed to back it up.

Amz

I've been reading this guys posts for a while now and it appears to me that he's had too many blows to the head.

What a muppet.

monkey tennis

47MartialMan wrote:

Nature has made the female gender of most species less dominate than their male counterparts

I'm going to assume you meant 'less aggressive' (partly because your sentence doesn't even make sense grammatically).

The short answer to your question is 'yes'.

The more in-depth answer would be that women can become as proficient in martial arts as men from a technical point of view, but they will always be in the minority, and men generally have the distinct natural advantage of greater physical strength, both in terms of muscle power and of bone structure, and of greater aggressiveness (party due to physiological differences, such as hormones).

PLEASE NOTE THE WORD 'GENERALLY' IN THERE, I don't need morons berating me because they know a woman who can mop the floor with the 6'6" guy in their dojo or whatever.

astfgl

47MartialMan wrote:

Women In Martial Arts

Nature has made the female gender of most species less dominate than their male counterparts. Can women become utilitarian in martial arts despite their lesser physical being?

I hear World MMA Champion Rosi Sexton will be at the Karl Tanswell seminar in SBG Rathcoole this Saturday, why dont you ask her.

Roper

I love this thread. Sopt on Martial Man for creating a thoughtful, 21st Century discussion.

I'll chime in: Women in martial arts are great because they are fit and hot. They can dominate me anytime.

Black Swan

Now, just walking down the street, what is the likelihood that a woman is going to have to defend herself against a (sober) male skilled in MA or KB or boxing or wrestling? Not likely, I would think. So a woman that is highly skilled in MA should do OK for herself against the average untrained male in the street?*








*For womens' SD, we teach them to run first, hit then run (if necessary), or fight dirty if cornered and not allowed to run.

gymrabbit

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

Now, just walking down the street, what is the likelihood that a woman is going to have to defend herself against a (sober) male skilled in MA or KB or boxing or wrestling? Not likely, I would think. So a woman that is highly skilled in MA should do OK for herself against the average untrained male in the street?*
*For womens' SD, we teach them to run first, hit then run (if necessary), or fight dirty if cornered and not allowed to run.

nah. i don't buy it. a woman would have to be very good at something to have the edge on somebody 30kg heavier then her.

Black Swan

gymrabbit wrote:

nah. i don't buy it. a woman would have to be very good at something to have the edge on somebody 30kg heavier then her.

By your comment, are you suggesting that MA skilled women cannot defend themselves against "heavier" untrained men? That they should not bother spending years becoming skilled in MA and SD?

This thread started off on the wrong foot by the OP, but setting that aside, I would like to hear from the instructors of MA on this issue.

john kavanagh

imo someone like this girl could well handle herself against an average guy, even if he was 30 odd kgs heavier. however this is a girl who's devoted herself to a (proven) very effective delivery system.

yomchi

john kavanagh wrote:

imo someone like this girl could well handle herself against an average guy, even if he was 30 odd kgs heavier. however this is a girl who's devoted herself to a (proven) very effective delivery system.

She's top class. Seen her working the pads one evening. Fcuk me has she got co-ordination and power combined.

All credit to her for taking home the gold. (I didn't say that in an improvised Roy Keane accent )

gymrabbit

Of course there always exceptions to the rule. I'm sure top quality female Boxers, Thai Boxers, Judo ppl, BJJ ppl would not be easy targets for a male attacker, regardless of size differntial.

Obviously, few people get to the "top quality" standard .

Black Swan

gymrabbit wrote:

Of course there always exceptions to the rule. I'm sure top quality female Boxers, Thai Boxers, Judo ppl, BJJ ppl would not be easy targets for a male attacker, regardless of size differntial.

Obviously, few people get to the "top quality" standard .

Are you suggesting that since only "few" women reach this "standard" that you proclaim, that (most) women interested in taking MA for SD are wasting their time and money?

47MartialMan

damo wrote:

Holy crap, do you seriously have nothing better to do than reply to your own bull**** rants?

You must really need a 'less dominate than their male counterparts'-friend...there are lots more fun things to do with your time with one of them you know.

Did you take like to cogitate this? Why dont you reply with something more in terms of the thread?:)

47MartialMan

mikeruurds wrote:

I let my wife put me into full mount regularly... does that make me weak?

47Martialman... your posts bore the hell out of me.

Mike

How your wife weakens you is different than in actual defense/combat.

And yet you respond with this rhetoric?

47MartialMan

Baggio... wrote:

Uh oh... I think your post is going to go down like a lead balloon - but I guess that that's the general intention.

I was originally training with a girl who had a Black Belt in Kick boxing (while I took a break from Kenpo). I can tell you know, despite her smaller frame she packed a hell of a punch and had lots of speed to back it up.

But can she defeat most of her male counterparts?

Has she been in a position to defend herself?

47MartialMan

monkey tennis wrote:

I'm going to assume you meant 'less aggressive' (partly because your sentence doesn't even make sense grammatically).

The short answer to your question is 'yes'.

The more in-depth answer would be that women can become as proficient in martial arts as men from a technical point of view, but they will always be in the minority, and men generally have the distinct natural advantage of greater physical strength, both in terms of muscle power and of bone structure, and of greater aggressiveness (party due to physiological differences, such as hormones).

PLEASE NOTE THE WORD 'GENERALLY' IN THERE, I don't need morons berating me because they know a woman who can mop the floor with the 6'6" guy in their dojo or whatever.

I have seen many women take up kickboxing and actually going gung ho at males.

47MartialMan

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

Now, just walking down the street, what is the likelihood that a woman is going to have to defend herself against a (sober) male skilled in MA or KB or boxing or wrestling? Not likely, I would think. So a woman that is highly skilled in MA should do OK for herself against the average untrained male in the street?*



*For womens' SD, we teach them to run first, hit then run (if necessary), or fight dirty if cornered and not allowed to run.

Nice reply. So this can be said for any martial artist whom doesnt have to train in MMA/Grappling/BJJ...etc...

47MartialMan

Roper wrote:

I love this thread. Sopt on Martial Man for creating a thoughtful, 21st Century discussion.

I'll chime in: Women in martial arts are great because they are fit and hot. They can dominate me anytime.

I had prognostigated that some one would reply erogenously.:eek:

47MartialMan

gymrabbit wrote:

nah. i don't buy it. a woman would have to be very good at something to have the edge on somebody 30kg heavier then her.

Then for that matter, how come in competitions of any fighting sport has it to pair off each combatant equal in weight?

How come they do not pair off one with someone heavier?

47MartialMan

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

By your comment, are you suggesting that MA skilled women cannot defend themselves against "heavier" untrained men? That they should not bother spending years becoming skilled in MA and SD?

This thread started off on the wrong foot by the OP, but setting that aside, I would like to hear from the instructors of MA on this issue.

Please excuse the context of this thread. It was not meant to be chauvinistic. By observation, it would seem more males are enthralled with combat.

I am not attempting to adumbrate that women cannot learn how to defend themselves.

47MartialMan

gymrabbit wrote:

Of course there always exceptions to the rule. I'm sure top quality female Boxers, Thai Boxers, Judo ppl, BJJ ppl would not be easy targets for a male attacker, regardless of size differntial.

Obviously, few people get to the "top quality" standard .

This appears to be a contradiction of your other post-

nah. i don't buy it. a woman would have to be very good at something to have the edge on somebody 30kg heavier then her.

47MartialMan

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

Are you suggesting that since only "few" women reach this "standard" that you proclaim, that (most) women interested in taking MA for SD are wasting their time and money?

I am not trying to have this thread on males verses females in so far as non-ability.

The thread was in a open ponderance in relation to the general thought that females may, or may not be, as interested, as involved, and not matched (esp in unisex hardcoe-extreme combat competitons)

47MartialMan

Amz wrote:

I've been reading this guys posts for a while now and it appears to me that he's had too many blows to the head.

What a muppet.

The moment there is something so controversial, I have had many head percussions?

I would think that many of my threads were compelling.:)

gymrabbit

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

Are you suggesting that since only "few" women reach this "standard" that you proclaim, that (most) women interested in taking MA for SD are wasting their time and money?

Anyone that takes up MA for SD are wasting their time and money. However, seeing as you've gone to the trouble of disagreeing with me, I'll point out a few truisms just so we're reading from the hymn sheet.

Improving your strength, "fitness", speed, agility, coordination, timing, accuracy etc.etc.etc. will not work against you in a SD situation.
Becoming proficient at a MA may give you great self-confidece, more confidence, more peace of mind - against all beneficial.

My basic premise is, improving your fighting ability will give you benefits in a SD situation. However, very few SD situations require good fighting ability and very few people find themselves in genuine SD situations. So MA training will only you help you so much in a SD situation and because it's a highly unlikely occurence it's probably not a good primary motivaton. It's like me training in MA because in case I go to war, and in case I end up in hand to hand combat, I'll have an edge on my opponent. A far better method of preparation would be - not become a soldier, if i do, not go to war, if can't avoid this, don't drop my weapon, if I can't avoid this, run like hell.

It's probably important that we kinda define what we all mean by SD situation. I'm talking about a situation where someone is robbing you, or is actually interested in causing you serious bodily harm or attempting to rape you. This covers things like attempted rape, kidnapping, mugging, robbery attempted battery. I'm not talking about some guy harassing you on the beach wanting to get into your pants, or someone calling you a "******" outside a chipper/nightclub.

And my idea of the assialant is a 17 stones 250lb rugby/football type player.

Perhaps, if I looked at it a different way. And the self-defense situation is a wobbly, malnourish, unarmed heroin addict (junkie) trying to snatch your purse. Perhaps, if any girl with a descent punch gave him that initial smack he'd let go and run off himself or allow you to run off. Is this more realistic? If it is, I'll have to retract my orignal sentiment and apologise and agree with you.

Anyway, I hope I've explained my point of view, that's cleared up any misunderstandings we had and now you can see what we agree and disagree on.

gymrabbit

gymrabbit wrote:

Anyone that takes up MA for SD are wasting their time and money. However, seeing as you've gone to the trouble of disagreeing with me, I'll point out a few truisms just so we're reading from the hymn sheet.

Improving your strength, "fitness", speed, agility, coordination, timing, accuracy etc.etc.etc. will not work against you in a SD situation.
Becoming proficient at a MA may give you great self-confidece, more confidence, more peace of mind - against all beneficial.

My basic premise is, improving your fighting ability will give you benefits in a SD situation. However, very few SD situations require good fighting ability and very few people find themselves in genuine SD situations. So MA training will only you help you so much in a SD situation and because it's a highly unlikely occurence it's probably not a good primary motivaton. It's like me training in MA because in case I go to war, and in case I end up in hand to hand combat, I'll have an edge on my opponent. A far better method of preparation would be - not become a soldier, if i do, not go to war, if can't avoid this, don't drop my weapon, if I can't avoid this, run like hell.

It's probably important that we kinda define what we all mean by SD situation. I'm talking about a situation where someone is robbing you, or is actually interested in causing you serious bodily harm or attempting to rape you. This covers things like attempted rape, kidnapping, mugging, robbery attempted battery. I'm not talking about some guy harassing you on the beach wanting to get into your pants, or someone calling you a "******" outside a chipper/nightclub.

And my idea of the assialant is a 17 stones 250lb rugby/football type player.

Perhaps, if I looked at it a different way. And the self-defense situation is a wobbly, malnourish, unarmed heroin addict (junkie) trying to snatch your purse. Perhaps, if any girl with a descent punch gave him that initial smack he'd let go and run off himself or allow you to run off. Is this more realistic? If it is, I'll have to retract my orignal sentiment and apologise and agree with you.

Anyway, I hope I've explained my point of view, that's cleared up any misunderstandings we had and now you can see what we agree and disagree on.

I have to disagree with you too!
I'll make a sweeping generalisation here and say that most women don't like to hit. Girls generally don't have "a decent punch". That has to be learned, as does the confidence to punch someone.
Before I started MA I wouldn't have known what to do in a choke situation or a wrist grab. I think it's fair to say both of those would be more likely to happen to a woman than a man.
Of course, not putting yourself in that situation and getting the hell out of there are Plan A and Plan B.
Poking a would-be rapist in the eye is no harm as a Plan C in my book.

breadmonkey

I hate this troll.

mikeruurds

47MartialMan wrote:

The moment there is something so controversial, I have had many head percussions?

I would think that many of my threads were compelling.:)

Head percussions?

Oh... you mean blows to the head.

I would liken reading your posts to the act of passing kidney stones. Painful.

john kavanagh

gymrabbit wrote:

Anyone that takes up MA for SD are wasting their time and money. However, seeing as you've gone to the trouble of disagreeing with me, I'll point out a few truisms just so we're reading from the hymn sheet.

Improving your strength, "fitness", speed, agility, coordination, timing, accuracy etc.etc.etc. will not work against you in a SD situation.
Becoming proficient at a MA may give you great self-confidece, more confidence, more peace of mind - against all beneficial.

My basic premise is, improving your fighting ability will give you benefits in a SD situation. However, very few SD situations require good fighting ability and very few people find themselves in genuine SD situations. So MA training will only you help you so much in a SD situation and because it's a highly unlikely occurence it's probably not a good primary motivaton. It's like me training in MA because in case I go to war, and in case I end up in hand to hand combat, I'll have an edge on my opponent. A far better method of preparation would be - not become a soldier, if i do, not go to war, if can't avoid this, don't drop my weapon, if I can't avoid this, run like hell.

It's probably important that we kinda define what we all mean by SD situation. I'm talking about a situation where someone is robbing you, or is actually interested in causing you serious bodily harm or attempting to rape you. This covers things like attempted rape, kidnapping, mugging, robbery attempted battery. I'm not talking about some guy harassing you on the beach wanting to get into your pants, or someone calling you a "******" outside a chipper/nightclub.

And my idea of the assialant is a 17 stones 250lb rugby/football type player.

Perhaps, if I looked at it a different way. And the self-defense situation is a wobbly, malnourish, unarmed heroin addict (junkie) trying to snatch your purse. Perhaps, if any girl with a descent punch gave him that initial smack he'd let go and run off himself or allow you to run off. Is this more realistic? If it is, I'll have to retract my orignal sentiment and apologise and agree with you.

Anyway, I hope I've explained my point of view, that's cleared up any misunderstandings we had and now you can see what we agree and disagree on.

very good post

Ridire_Dubh

gymrabbit wrote:

Anyone that takes up MA for SD are wasting their time and money.

Thought there was a martial art developed by Okinawa monks for self defense against robbers, because they were forbidden to use weapons by their Japanese Shogun (hundreds of years ago). They may have included pole and cane, but also "open hand" should they not have a pole or cane to use.

Pro. F

gymrabbit wrote:

Anyone that takes up MA for SD are wasting their time and money.

I disagree. Shock horror :eek:

gymrabbit wrote:

My basic premise is, improving your fighting ability will give you benefits in a SD situation. However, very few SD situations require good fighting ability

I'm talking about a situation where someone is robbing you, or is actually interested in causing you serious bodily harm or attempting to rape you. This covers things like attempted rape, kidnapping, mugging, robbery attempted battery. I'm not talking about some guy harassing you on the beach wanting to get into your pants, or someone calling you a "******" outside a chipper/nightclub.

I agree that harassment or abuse is not the problem, real danger is the problem. How do people learn how to tell the difference? By going to a good MA club that deals with SD in a realistic way.

I guess that you would say the ability to run away fast would get you out of these situations. And that avoidance first is best. (I guess this because I've been reading these boards for ages and it's usually what people say when they say that being able to fight effectively isn't important for SD.)
I agree that avoidance is best. Where would one learn how to avoid trouble? - in a good martial arts club that deals with SD. Don't say that it's just common sense its far more than that. esp if you live in a city and you want a social life and doubly especially (its a real term :mad: ) if you live in a rough part of a city.

So, running away. Ye it works well if you train running. So then you're fast.. What if you're with your friends or family? are you just going to run and leave them?

So then, SD situations require good fighting ability and the ability to run fast in case it's suitable, and good danger awareness/avoidance skills. (not in order of importance)

Seeing as this thread is about women in MA here's my bit.
It seems to me that most women get into MA for fitness and the craic.. cool by me. I've observed many women that don't train for long enough to make there MA very useful for protecting themselves or others. But also, I've seen woman who have trained for long enough. Actually thinking about it it's the same with lads. Just that there's more lads, of both types, involved.

Here's something interesting: I've heard that in FMA the girls often achieve more power with their stick strikes. Apparently this is because they rely on technique and don't try to 'muscle' their strikes. I think that's a cool example of the importance of technique.

gymrabbit

Ridire_Dubh wrote:

Thought there was a martial art developed by Okinawa monks for self defense against robbers, because they were forbidden to use weapons by their Japanese Shogun (hundreds of years ago). They may have included pole and cane, but also "open hand" should they not have a pole or cane to use.

That's a succinct review of the genesis of Karate/ninjutsu or whatever. However, news flash, we don't live in feudal japan. Samurai don't walk the lands chopping people down, 99.999% of people don't commit murder. We don't live in treacherous dangerous times.

I agree that harassment or abuse is not the problem, real danger is the problem. How do people learn how to tell the difference? By going to a good MA club that deals with SD in a realistic way.

You think so? I think common sense is what is useful in these situations or street smarts or whatever you call it. I can't think of many martial arts that will prepare you to tell the difference between a drunk thug who wants to slag you off or a drunk thug that wants to stab you.

Where would one learn how to avoid trouble? - in a good martial arts club that deals with SD. Don't say that it's just common sense its far more than that. esp if you live in a city and you want a social life and doubly especially (its a real term ) if you live in a rough part of a city.

Hehe, you took the words right out of my mouth. I think Pro you know exactly what I'm going to say and I've an idea what you're going to say so we may as well save the electrons and not bother .

Just about the FMA girls. It's a good point. However, all people practicing martial arts of all types should endeavour to put technique and the development of skill first and the use of natural physical attributes (strenght, speed, power) second. Obviously, some girls are at an advantage in that they can't rely on their natural power because they haven't got any and 17stone Fiachra the rugby player has a lot of prejudices to overcome to put skill before brawn.

i think we can all think of situations were running away isn't an option (What if you're friend is on crutches? What if your granny is in a wheelchair?). We can all agree that the best thing to do is just try and not be there in the first place. But can we all accept that you there is a limited amount of preparation for these type of scenarios you can do? My point is, and it's probably shared by many people on this forum, why spend all that time preparing for something that probably won't happen? Secondly, how exactly do you prepare for these things? Multiple opponents, weapons, rain, snow, curbs, lamposts, visibility, looking after your crippled granny. There are too many variables and trying to create a model system for multivariable-nonlinear systems that is any way realistic is almost impossible.

More importantly, if this is something you like doing. You like training in the RBSD way, soft skills, shouting at people and stuff - GO RIGHT AHEAD. This type of training, even the though of this type of training just makes me want to go out and play football.

Roper

47MartialMan wrote:

I had prognostigated that some one would reply erogenously.:eek:

It's spelled prognosticated. Erogenous is a word, erogenously is not. You can touch an erogenous zone, but you can't erogenously touch a zone. See? You need to keep it simple and maybe then you'll be understood and not look so stupid.

Amz

Methinks the OP needs a new dictionary.

I'm not impressed with his attitude at all and he does strike me as a troll.

47MartialMan

gymrabbit wrote:

Anyone that takes up MA for SD are wasting their time and money. However, seeing as you've gone to the trouble of disagreeing with me, I'll point out a few truisms just so we're reading from the hymn sheet.

Improving your strength, "fitness", speed, agility, coordination, timing, accuracy etc.etc.etc. will not work against you in a SD situation.
Becoming proficient at a MA may give you great self-confidece, more confidence, more peace of mind - against all beneficial.

My basic premise is, improving your fighting ability will give you benefits in a SD situation. However, very few SD situations require good fighting ability and very few people find themselves in genuine SD situations. So MA training will only you help you so much in a SD situation and because it's a highly unlikely occurence it's probably not a good primary motivaton. It's like me training in MA because in case I go to war, and in case I end up in hand to hand combat, I'll have an edge on my opponent. A far better method of preparation would be - not become a soldier, if i do, not go to war, if can't avoid this, don't drop my weapon, if I can't avoid this, run like hell.

It's probably important that we kinda define what we all mean by SD situation. I'm talking about a situation where someone is robbing you, or is actually interested in causing you serious bodily harm or attempting to rape you. This covers things like attempted rape, kidnapping, mugging, robbery attempted battery. I'm not talking about some guy harassing you on the beach wanting to get into your pants, or someone calling you a "******" outside a chipper/nightclub.

And my idea of the assialant is a 17 stones 250lb rugby/football type player.

Perhaps, if I looked at it a different way. And the self-defense situation is a wobbly, malnourish, unarmed heroin addict (junkie) trying to snatch your purse. Perhaps, if any girl with a descent punch gave him that initial smack he'd let go and run off himself or allow you to run off. Is this more realistic? If it is, I'll have to retract my orignal sentiment and apologise and agree with you.

Anyway, I hope I've explained my point of view, that's cleared up any misunderstandings we had and now you can see what we agree and disagree on.

Nice post except what I had highlighted in boldface.

When you go to war, there is a less chance in hand-to-hand being that military strategies and technologies have turned from such. In this era of war, you are most likely to get shot or bombed.

47MartialMan

Deleted User wrote:

I have to disagree with you too!
I'll make a sweeping generalisation here and say that most women don't like to hit. Girls generally don't have "a decent punch". That has to be learned, as does the confidence to punch someone.
Before I started MA I wouldn't have known what to do in a choke situation or a wrist grab. I think it's fair to say both of those would be more likely to happen to a woman than a man.
Of course, not putting yourself in that situation and getting the hell out of there are Plan A and Plan B.
Poking a would-be rapist in the eye is no harm as a Plan C in my book.

You still may not "know what to do" in a choke or wrist grab upon the moment.

47MartialMan

breadmonkey wrote:

I hate this troll.

To whom may you speak of?

47MartialMan

mikeruurds wrote:

Head percussions?

Oh... you mean blows to the head.

I would liken reading your posts to the act of passing kidney stones. Painful.

So your analogy of my posts is in passing of kidney stones?

Have you ever had kidney stones?

47MartialMan

Pro. F wrote:

I disagree. Shock horror :eek:


I agree that harassment or abuse is not the problem, real danger is the problem. How do people learn how to tell the difference? By going to a good MA club that deals with SD in a realistic way.

I guess that you would say the ability to run away fast would get you out of these situations. And that avoidance first is best. (I guess this because I've been reading these boards for ages and it's usually what people say when they say that being able to fight effectively isn't important for SD.)
I agree that avoidance is best. Where would one learn how to avoid trouble? - in a good martial arts club that deals with SD. Don't say that it's just common sense its far more than that. esp if you live in a city and you want a social life and doubly especially (its a real term :mad: ) if you live in a rough part of a city.

So, running away. Ye it works well if you train running. So then you're fast.. What if you're with your friends or family? are you just going to run and leave them?

So then, SD situations require good fighting ability and the ability to run fast in case it's suitable, and good danger awareness/avoidance skills. (not in order of importance)

Seeing as this thread is about women in MA here's my bit.
It seems to me that most women get into MA for fitness and the craic.. cool by me. I've observed many women that don't train for long enough to make there MA very useful for protecting themselves or others. But also, I've seen woman who have trained for long enough. Actually thinking about it it's the same with lads. Just that there's more lads, of both types, involved.

Here's something interesting: I've heard that in FMA the girls often achieve more power with their stick strikes. Apparently this is because they rely on technique and don't try to 'muscle' their strikes. I think that's a cool example of the importance of technique.[/QUOTE]

Nice.

There is a difference between training in a controlled environment and SD

47MartialMan

Roper wrote:

It's spelled prognosticated. Erogenous is a word, erogenously is not. You can touch an erogenous zone, but you can't erogenously touch a zone. See? You need to keep it simple and maybe then you'll be understood and not look so stupid.

Hey-anyone can make an eror

47MartialMan

Amz wrote:

Methinks the OP needs a new dictionary.

I'm not impressed with his attitude at all and he does strike me as a troll.

I am not trying to impress anyone.

mikeruurds

47MartialMan wrote:

So your analogy of my posts is in passing of kidney stones?

Have you ever had kidney stones?

Yes. But I won't be derailing this thread further with stories of my previous afflictions.

Carry on.

Mike

Amz

47MartialMan, I have been instructed to ban you if you continue to post in this fashion. Your posts appear to be nothing but flamebait and spam.

Colm_OReilly

47MartialMan banned from SD/MA for postwhoring and ignoring my warnings.

Please do not flood this thread with "good riddance" type comments.

Colm

Pro. F

gymrabbit wrote:

I think common sense is what is useful in these situations or street smarts or whatever you call it. I can't think of many martial arts that will prepare you to tell the difference between a drunk thug who wants to slag you off or a drunk thug that wants to stab you.

1. A big problem lots of people have with getting out of trouble/potential trouble is that fear means that they loose a large part of their observational powers. When the average Joe is faced with a threatening situation they freeze up (not necessarily completely freeze) and therefore find it hard to judge what is going on in fine detail. The adrenaline causes the field of vision to reduce and other things like that.
IMO any MA that has decent sparring will give an advantage as the practitioner will be exposed to confrontation and aggression. I think that time in the ring/cage or something extreme like that is very important too. And of course good SD actually has exercises and drills which help you deal with or avoid adrenaline dumps.

2. Since you can't think of many martial arts that will prepare you to tell the difference between a drunk thug who wants to slag you off or a drunk thug that wants to stab you I'll name some - ..good self defence systems. I'm not up to date on the naming conventions that's why I haven't used any term like RBSD etc. Now which ones are good is open to debate but ask on these boards and people with more experience than me, like Millionaire and Bagio for example, will point you in the right direction. Geoff Thompson is the most often named dude in this area that I've heard. These good self defence systems deal with how to tell the difference between a drunk thug who wants to slag you and a drunk thug who wants to stab you.

gymrabbit wrote:

Just about the FMA girls. It's a good point. However, all people practicing martial arts of all types should endeavour to put technique and the development of skill first and the use of natural physical attributes (strenght, speed, power) second. Obviously, some girls are at an advantage in that they can't rely on their natural power because they haven't got any and 17stone Fiachra the rugby player has a lot of prejudices to overcome to put skill before brawn.

Ye, that's what I was trying to get at.

gymrabbit wrote:

i think we can all think of situations were running away isn't an option (What if you're friend is on crutches? What if your granny is in a wheelchair?).

Your use of funny/unlikely situations would lead people to believe that situations in which you can't run are uncommon. I would say that there are many common situations in which running wouldn't be a good idea. I think that running is only a good option if you are with a companion(s) that you know will run at the right time (ie at the same time as you) and will run quick enough. Here's the situations in which running seems a good option for me: when I alone; when I'm with some friends who train MA (and who aren't fat and old:D ); when I'm with some other friends of mine who are fit(ish) and I know how they think. Other than that I'm struggling to think of situations in which running would be Plan A. Now, that means there are still a fair proportion of situations in which running works so I practice it and agree with it as a tactic.

gymrabbit wrote:

But can we all accept that there is a limited amount of preparation for these type of scenarios you can do?

I'm not being smart here but there is a limited amount of preparation that can be done for any type of scenario. A more important question may be is there effective preparation that can be done. I believe that functional MA training (training with resisting partners; in all ranges likely to be encountered; with a lot of fitness work, if you're planning to fight weapon-less; with a lot of repetition of techniques etc. etc) guided by and backed up with good quality SD training and understanding is very effective.

gymrabbit wrote:

My point is, and it's probably shared by many people on this forum, why spend all that time preparing for something that probably won't happen?

Why spend four hours a day training? Why do rounds until you puke? Why do shadow boxing instead of reading? Lots of people have lots of reasons for training. I think lots of people lose sight of why they train MA (but that's another matter). I know that I train MA because I want to be effective at dealing with violent situations - avoiding them or resolving them.

gymrabbit wrote:

Secondly, how exactly do you prepare for these things? Multiple opponents, weapons, rain, snow, curbs, lamposts, visibility, looking after your crippled granny. There are too many variables and trying to create a model system for multivariable-nonlinear systems that is any way realistic is almost impossible.

It can't be proved that there aren't too many variables. But I suggest we can look at it this way - there are effective techniques, strategies and tactics, which can be studied and trained, for dealing with: multiple opponents; weapons; different ground conditions; poor visibility and partners that need to be protected. I'm not going to get into how to deal with each factor - there's too many, too much info on each, and I'm not an authority anyway. If you start a thread on any factor I'm sure you'll get info on how to deal with it from lots of people (some from me probably).

gymrabbit wrote:

More importantly, if this is something you like doing. You like training in the RBSD way, soft skills, shouting at people and stuff - GO RIGHT AHEAD. This type of training, even the though of this type of training just makes me want to go out and play football.

I'm not arguing with you because you don't want to do it I'm arguing because you said it couldn't be done.

Ps: Sorry about the big delay (days:( ) in responding.

john kavanagh

Pro. F wrote:

I want to be effective at dealing with violent situations

and how do you test if your training is making you effective at dealing with violent situations?

galfano78

Tis very easy to distinguish the harmless drunk from the harmful one.

With over 14 years experience in the bar-trade i'd have to say i'd be an expert in the field.

The concept of National Service in the bar trade in Ireland has often come into conversation between myself and fellow colleagues, especially in a country that prides itself on being able to drink more than the average foreigner.

I/we reckon that if every person who was eligible to drink in this country had to do a six month stint behind the bar we'd be a nation of happier drunks, not alcohol fuelled morons (and coke and alcohol fuelled morons) who want to take on the world.

My martial arts training has proved invaluable, probably would be in a wheelchair typing this if it hadn't been for the edge against the average joe that martial arts has given me. Not that I started fights, no siree! more like punters turning on bar staff after they had been refused, or after a fight being broken up.

I never train with a sd / street motivation in mind, I train to better myself and thats the only way to train.

If you want to become a master at avoiding violent confrontations then work on your personality and sprinting.

As far as women in martial arts goes I think there should be more girls out there training and giving just as good as the fellas because they are equally capable. That lassie from Bray would give most posters on this site a run for their money.

This is probably an underlying problem that needs to be addressed by more women only classes. I've brought my better half training numerous times and she has said that the only reason that she doesn't go back is because she feels intimidated by all the males.

Maybe a big market for you and Suzi to tap into john?


P.S. As for the dope who started this thread: GET A LIFE!

gymrabbit

Pro. F wrote:

I'm not arguing with you because you don't want to do it I'm arguing because you said it couldn't be done.
Ps: Sorry about the big delay (days:( ) in responding.

Thanks for the long reply man, no worries about the delay, we all have lives to live

I agree with the majority of the things you say because they sound very reasonable and rational.

We've agreed that the self-defence situation is a complex environment with many unknown variables (number of attackers, weapons). We've also agreed with the SBG mantra that circumstances dictate tactics but the delivery system stays the same so functional MA training is the way to go.

And of course good SD actually has exercises and drills which help you deal with or avoid adrenaline dumps.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you use specific drills that are designed to deal with adrenaline rushes or do you mean the more experienced you are in high stress environments (MMA sparring) the better you become at performing.

Since you can't think of many martial arts that will prepare you to tell the difference between a drunk thug who wants to slag you off or a drunk thug that wants to stab you I'll name some - ..good self defence systems.

Ok, I'll take this opportunity to ask Baggio or Millionaire or Jon or any of the urban combativies/RBSD people in what ways do they prepare for this dilemma? Pre-emptive attacks must lead to unprovoked assaults due to error on someon's part, at least in a few cases. It just seems to me like a very complex psycological problem, how to interpret, understand and predict a strangers behaviour.