Cork-Midleton Railway Public Inquiry

NavanJunction1

Irish Rail to seek reopening of line to Midleton By Tim O'Brien, Mon, Apr 17, 06

Irish Rail will formally ask Minister for Transport Martin Cullen in the coming weeks for permission to reopen the Cork to Midleton railway.

The line is to become part of a €100 million development of the commuter rail network around Cork city, which also includes services on the Mallow line.

The new commuter service is designed to meet the long-term needs of the rapidly expanding east Cork region, to alleviate traffic congestion in and out of the city at peak times and to attract industrial and commercial development.


Documentation formally requesting permission from Mr Cullen is to be lodged early in May and a public inquiry will then be held. It is anticipated that construction work on the Midleton line will begin later this year and commuter services will start in 2008.

The reopening of the line, first announced by then minister for transport Séamus Brennan in April 2003, was included in the Government's €35 billion transport strategy last year.

Transport 21 also provides for five additional commuter railway stations at Blarney, Kilbarry, Dunkettle, Carrigtwohill and Midleton.

After the development of Dublin's Luas the service to Midleton will be the first major extension of the rail network in the Republic for more than 100 years.

At a cost of about €100 million the new Cork commuter service will provide for peak hour services every 15 minutes between Cork city and Midleton, a distance of 20km (12 miles), involving the construction of 10km (6 miles) of new track, three new stations and new signalling

The plan will also involve enhanced services between Cork city and Mallow, a distance of 35km (22 miles), on the main Dublin-Cork line. New commuter trains are to be provided at a cost of almost €30 million.

New park-and-ride facilities are also being planned for new stations at Dunkettle (750 spaces), Blarney (200), Carrigtwohill (450), and Midleton (600).

A study by Faber Maunsell estimated that revenue support would be needed only during the first six years of operation.

The reopening of the Midleton line is part of the Cork Area Strategic Plan (Casp), which was commissioned by Cork city and county councils in 2000. It is also supported by Cork Chamber of Commerce.

Casp contains proposals for further expansion of commuter rail services in the longer term, including extending the Midleton line to Youghal.

That extension is not likely to happen in the lifetime of Transport 21, which covers the period up to 2015.

© The Irish Times

deRanged

The 'Glounthaune Midleton' project office is open in Glounthaune train station.
There's a fair bit of work to do on the line though:


Some more shots http://bclayton.ucc.ie/pics/train

Transport21 Fan

This Midleton extention has been on-going for over 20 years now. Cork City and County Councils to their credit have done everything required of them to make this happen and we still at the classic CIE 'eternal feet-dragging on public transport' development stage.

Can anybody explain to me what is meant by "will formally ask Minister for Transport Martin Cullen in the coming weeks for permission to reopen the Cork to Midleton railway"?

Was that photo of Seamus Brennan and Dr John Lynch (with a look on his face like he was pissed off that he was not able to build office blocks on the site and had to do the 'whole railway thing'...) in the Irish Times a few years back - with the promise to start opening the line ASAP a figment of our imagination?

Glad to see that a possible Youghal extention is finally on the cards. I am sure CIE got seriously depressed when that was put to them. "what do you mean an extention to the rail network, we have luxury penthouses to build!"

Pfungstadter

is it just going to be diesel rail car service or are they going to think about electricity!!!!!! :eek:

Chris_533976

Diesel for sure. No way would they electrify that line with the Cobh line there too, especially since they recently upgraded the Cobh trains to ones whos floors arent quite so sticky.

Yes, this is long long overdue. CIE have ****ed up badly. This should have been done a long time ago and the Youghal extension should be started NOW, not later. The whole track from Glounthaune to Midleton will have to be relaid, they cleared the briars and nettles off the track recently.

2008 tho? Seems like one hell of a long time yet.

MarkoP11

Its a slow news day, the article is quite misleading.

The line was never actually closed under the regulatory procedures, the line reached engineers siding, it is technically still open to non passenger services, the correct authorisation was given in 1963 to close the line to passengers. The Minister requests Irish Rail to reopen the line. CIE as the legal entity then submit a works order under the transport act (infrastructure) 2001 which the minister then signs if he deems appropriate. It aint cheap produce a works order so its only done if the DoT have funded it. So it messy but its not IE's call to open the line they haven't the legal power. Irish Rail don't run the railway the Department of Transport do.

Cork Midleton has been held up for years due to a refusal from the DoT to actually make promised funds available, there are numerous reports, the first of which dates from, September 1978. There are three more recent reports, one by MVA in 1991, one by Arup 1999 and another by Faber Maunsell both Arup and Faber Maunsell recommended Midleton. The Youghal option adds a massive amount to the costs. The journey time from Midleton is 22 minutes, 44 from Youghal

Given the scale of work, its not just the 6km to Midleton and the legal hoops required 2008 is a reasonable target

lostinsuperfunk

Several websites claim that seasonal Cork-Youghal passenger services ran until the early 1980s - is this true?
e.g. this one: http://www.westontrack.com/news123.htm

MarkoP11

Scheduled passenger services ceased in 1963. Freight remained until the early 1980's leaving the line open. The current condition is such that nothing could be sent down the line its rotten through

Special trains ran from Youghal mainly for GAA matches and also for the trip to Knock, the last trip was 1988. Nothing unusual in that the Navan branch had similar use last passenger service was 1996. None of these services where normal scheduled services

Passenger services are now banned from freight only lines

paulm17781

MarkoP11 wrote:

Nothing unusual in that the Navan branch had similar use last passenger service was 1996.

I assume that is Navan - Drogheda?

Aidan1

Glad to see that a possible Youghal extention is finally on the cards.

Its not, and most likely never will be. The cost benefit ratio of extending the line to Youghal is awful. Simply put, beyond Midleton the thing rapidly becomes unviable. The population density is not there, and won't be under even the most optimistic population predictions in the CASP. Moreover, were the line to be extended, it would probably require double tracking at least as far as Midleton in order to keep frequency reasonable. Then things get really expensive. Midleton is designated to receive a huge amount of population growth in the medium term (to approx 22,000 people by 2020) and is being zoned accordingly. Youghal isn't going to see anything like that amount of growth.

There are a number of road developments around the railway suggested in the Special Local Area Plan for Midleton, and a number of others are 'under discussion' which should facilitate Park and Ride from the Eastern side of Midleton (as well as from the south).

If people were looking for changed to make to the project, it would be much more productive to ensure that enough passing loops are in place on the Midleton route, and Kent Station will actually be able to handle the numbers of passengers by mid 2008.

NavanJunction1

paulm17781 wrote:

I assume that is Navan - Drogheda?

It is Navan-Drogheda - there is a picture of the 1991 All-Ireland passenger train at Navan station at the link below:

http://blog.meathontrack.com/2006/04/15/navan-drogheda-rail-link.aspx

Pfungstadter

Are you saying that the original line wasn't double track or that the currnet plans are for single track only?

It should be double track, it's so stupid, we can afford to build big roads because we can say there will be grwoth but not a railway. And what makes it more stupid is that it's beside our second city (some say first) and that it's a perfect corridor for the growth or Cork, the right or way is already there for the line. Very little land has to be bought if any. Should be built to a standard that allows for electrification incrased capacity.

Surprised the RPA hasn't tried to get in on this and make it a different gauge. and stick a lightweight tram in it, and a different ticketing system

Just a note on the Gauge, was some law passed a long long time ago in the 1800's standardising all railway gauges to broad and narrow, so is the RPA breaking the law. I just know this cos when the Dublin - Belfast railway was being built, two different gauges were used during construction. The Belfast end was wider I think.

Aidan1

The original layout was single track from Glaunthaune to Youghal, with a number of level crossings. The 'new' scheme will be single track also, with a number of passing loops. Both Midleton and Carrigtwohill stations will have two lines and two platforms from the outset though. The level crossings will be closed, and replaced with a smaller number of overpasses. A number of minor roads will be closed also.

The population of the entire East Cork Area is somewhere in the region of 45,000. It's growing quite spectacularly (we'll have to wait until the census data comes out to know just how much) but theres no suggestion that the density will approach that necessitating a DART service! Single track, with enough passing loops, sufficient frequency and reliability and a continuation of investment in tying other transport means into this mode is all thats required in the medium term.

As far as I'm aware, all plans are such that electrification can be added later. Dual tracking would require a lot of extra land, and the removal of a number of bridges and a lot of extra cutting work. It could be done, but the figures don't justify it within any reasonable time frame, if ever.

MarkoP11

Its important to note the boundary between Cork City and Cork County falls very close to Midleton. That has implications for development and trust me you don't want to follow the Dublin style sprawl, you develop hand in hand with the infrastructure and to be fair to Cork City Council they got the act together

The line is single, capacity isn't a major problem, you move from two car to four car trains as the platforms are all planned as 4 car length. Overhead clearances should be suitable for electrification if the time ever came on all new structures. The costs on the project are finely balanced so extravagant engineering isn't on the agenda. The 6 miles from Cork to Glounthaune are double, its less than 6.5 miles onwards to Midleton with a passing loop at Carrigtwohill and Midleton so 3 trains an hour in each direction would be no bother at all, 4 might even be possible, it depends on the track layout chosen

The RPA have no jurisdiction over any mainline rail project though they might give Luas in Cork a try (and it would work) but thats for another day. And they have legal advice over the 1846 act and it can be got round easily under section 2 of the act

The capital costs in going on to Youghal are not really that bad but its significant, the passing loop problem isn't really that major. The real sting is operating costs as you need at least one extra train set (2 million a coach) plus you need to staff it and maintain it and the return is not there as its a reducing return the further you go, bearing in mind its twice the journey time to Youghal compared to Midleton demand falls off with distance, it is 14 further miles to Youghal

Youghal might get added later but we are looking at 2020

Victor

MarkoP11 wrote:

Its important to note the boundary between Cork City and Cork County falls very close to Midleton.

No, the boundary is at Dunkettle (station long abandoned), roughly where the Jack Lynch Tunnel is.

Its the pink line here: http://www.corkcity.ie/maps/maps/24.html

Chris_533976

OT but that roundabout badly needs to be replaced with a normal flyover.

Course you wonder with this train just how frequent it'll be. Bets that there'll be some weird dealings between Bus Eireann (Midleton - Cork bus) and Iaranrod Eireann (Midleton - Cork train).

dowlingm

isn't a P&R at Dunkettle part of the plan?

Chris_533976

I dont think its part of the plan directly, but it's something that would be convenient to build at the same time.

Theres a huge car storage place at Dunkettle, all they have to do is buy that and they've got a ready made carpark

Pfungstadter

"The RPA have no jurisdiction over any mainline rail project "

If that is true how did the RPA get the Harcourt line? As far as I'm aware it never lost it's right of way. Did cié have to give the land to the RPA or did they sell it or does cié still own it?

And also the RPA is eyeing up the Broadstone Alignment, can they just take it.

One agency should be out incharge of rail, not two, it's so stupid. One gauge should be kept too. How is stuff supposed to be intergrated in the future!

ok give trams a smaller one (since it's done), better for streets and stuff but metro and rail should be the same.

Winters

Pfungstadter wrote:

"The RPA have no jurisdiction over any mainline rail project "

If that is true how did the RPA get the Harcourt line? As far as I'm aware it never lost it's right of way. Did cié have to give the land to the RPA or did they sell it or does cié still own it?

Back then the RPA was known as the Light Rail Project Office (Donal Mangan et al) and was part of the CIE group.

MarkoP11

Irish Rail still have full jurisdiction over all rail lines and heavy rail based projects, e.g Cork Midleton

The RPA are in charge of all light rail and metro related projects as well as ticketing countrywide. If Luas comes to Cork RPA run the show

Harcourt Street line in its entirety was sold and CIE had no right of way all the lines closed were sold off. It was reacquired under CPO, most of it was still in public ownership of local councils. Cork Midleton was never closed legally and all the land stayed in the ownership of the CIE board. Additional lands are required to reopen the line to allow for new stations and passing loops as well as to deal with any potental claims for adverse possession hence the public inquiry

As it stands only CIE (on behalf of IE since they are the legal entity) or the RPA have the direct ability to request permission to build rail based infrastructure

Pfungstadter

So the RPA started out as a CIÉ company!!!
So how did they manage to create the most unintergrated system then

No intergrated ticketing

No standard gauge

No intergrated map showing both systems together, the Dart and the Luas anywhere in the city on both networks. (But the OS managed to produce one for it's dublin map book)

And with that the call one of the Lines the Green Line, eveyone knows that the Dart has used green from day one, colour of the trains might just give it away and their network map.

Is this just a big stand off between the two to see who gets their way and comes out on top!!

Metrobest

For some history on Irish railway gauges, try
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_in_Ireland

It's interesting to note that the Dublin-Kingstown railway was initially 1435mm, the gauge of luas and metro systems the world over. It was then relaid to the "CIE special" gauge. What a joyful day that was. :rolleyes:

1435mm is used in the folllowing countries:
Known as "Standard (Stephenson) gauge"
Albania [670], Argentina [2900] (APL, Metrovias, ONABE), Australia [17621], Austria [5394], Belarus [60], Belgium [3568], Brazil (Amapá, Jari), Bulgaria [4055], Canada [77387], Chile [150], China [73000], Colombia [150] (Medellin Metro), Croatia [2592], Cuba, Czech Rep. [9434], Denmark [2770], Dominican Rep. [375], Egypt [4763], France [34322], Gabon [649], Germany [44770], Greece [1565], Guinea [239], Guyana [110], Hong Kong (KCR, tramway, Ma On Shan [110]), Hungary [7508], India (Calcutta Tramways Co), Iran [5240], Iraq [2457], Ireland (Dublin & Kingstown), Israel [700], Italy [18166], Jamaica [294], Japan (Shinkansen [2503], Keisei Elec. Rly [83]; Shin-Keisei; Hokusou Kaihatsu; Keihin Kyuko; Tokyo Subway: Marunouchi, Ginza, and Asakusa Lines; Kintetsu [200]; Keihan; Hankyu; Hanshin; Nishi Nippon; Hakone Tozan), Lebanon, Liberia [328], Liechtenstein [19], Lithuania [16], Luxembourg [272], Malaysia (LRT) [56], Mauritania [690], Mauritius [170], Mexico [26612], Monaco [2], Morocco [1893], Netherlands [2828], New Zealand (trams [215]), Nicaragua [3], North Korea [4250], Norway [4223], Panama [78], Paraguay [1053], Peru [1501], Poland [23857], Portugal [12], Rumania [10860], Russia [140] (Kaliningr., Zarubino), Saudi Arabia [1390], Singapore (rapid transit [83]), Slovak Rep. [3507], Slovenia [1201], South Korea [3044], Spain [1016], Suriname [80], Sweden [11330], Switzerland [3677], Syria [1766], Thailand (SkyTram, etc.), Trinidad [640], Tunisia [2115], Turkey [8429], Turkmenistan [8] (Sarakhs), Ukraine [210], Uruguay [3000], UK [16584], USA [284818], Vatican [0.4], Venezuela [542], Vietnam [381], Yugoslavia

The "Irish" gauge is used in:
Brazil [4290], Australia (Victoria, South Australia) [7970], Germany (Badische Staatsbahn), Ireland [2810], New Zealand, UK (Northern Ireland) [330], USA (Altoona)

source: http://www.parovoz.com/spravka/gauges-en.php

Use of the Irish gauge has proven a disaster in every country it's been used, including Ireland. Brazil's train service is a joke, slower than the bus, and I don't think New Zealand has an extensive railway service either.In other words, there is no example of a successful use of the Irish gauge unless you count Ireland - and I don't, not with CIE at the helm! Australia's situation was particularly problematic thanks to the "irish" gauge which subsequently had to be relaid to standard gauge. The Irishman who foisted the rogue Irish gauge onto Australia has become somewhat of a hate figure...

In 1855 the New South Wales colonial government employed a somewhat volatile Irish engineer by the name of F.W. Shields. He was, it seems, a persuasive man; he led the board of the company to scrap its plans for a 4’8 1/2” system in favour of the Irish 5’3” gauge. Neither he nor his board could foresee the massive problems that decision was to have for Australia for 150 years to follow.

source: http://www.adelaidereview.com.au/archives/2004_04/issuesandopinion_story7.shtml

So, why would we build metro to a rogue gauge which has failed everywhere in the world, including Ireland? And when luas, built to standard gauge, has been Ireland most successful rail project in history?

The luas and metro will be interoperable using the standard gauge found in metro systems almost everywhere. The metro has absolutely zero need to operate on a DART or Irish Rail track. It is a point to point, segregated, high-frequency line. Its gauge isn't relevent; even Platform 11 accepts that now doesn't it?

Re the RPA - I thought its role was to procure new railway infrastructure. I'd rather the RPA handle this Midelton line, as well as the interconnector. RPA has all the expertise when it comes to building new lines, and no doubt lessons have been learned for some of the communication failures of the luas project. CIE, on the other hand, never learns. But it does seem to know a thing or two about apartments.

Bill McH

Metrobest wrote:

For some history on Irish railway gauges, try
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_in_Ireland

It's interesting to note that the Dublin-Kingstown railway was initially 1435mm, the gauge of luas and metro systems the world over. It was then relaid to the "CIE special" gauge. What a joyful day that was. :rolleyes:

I recall hearing that we introduced our gauge as it was more suitable for carriages carrying cattle placed sideways in the carriage! Don't know if there's any truth in that.

Metrobest wrote:

Use of the Irish gauge has proven a disaster in every country it's been used, including Ireland. Brazil's train service is a joke, slower than the bus, and I don't think New Zealand has an extensive railway service either.In other words, there is no example of a successful use of the Irish gauge unless you count Ireland - and I don't, not with CIE at the helm! Australia's situation was particularly problematic thanks to the "irish" gauge which subsequently had to be relaid to standard gauge.

The train services in the countries with Irish gauge may not be great. But is this down to the fact that they use Irish gauge? I can't say much about Brazil or New Zealand, but I do have some views on the train services in Ireland. How much of the problems with the service provided by IE could be put down to the gauge issue? I'd say it's irrelevant.

IE buy in trains which are perfectly capable of running on Irish tracks. It is then down to how the trains are run and maintained, how much investment is put into the service, and a whole heap of other factors which have been discussed at length on other threads. The gauge itself is not the issue.

metrobest wrote:

So, why would we build metro to a rogue gauge which has failed everywhere in the world, including Ireland? And when luas, built to standard gauge, has been Ireland most successful rail project in history?

Again, did the services on Irish gauge fail because these trains were running on Irish gauge? Or were there other factors. Is LUAS such a successful rail project because the trams run on standard gauge? Or are there other factors, such as better customer service training?

metrobest wrote:

The luas and metro will be interoperable using the standard gauge found in metro systems almost everywhere. The metro has absolutely zero need to operate on a DART or Irish Rail track. It is a point to point, segregated, high-frequency line. Its gauge isn't relevent; even Platform 11 accepts that now doesn't it?

Quite right, the metro as currently planned has absolutely zero need to operate on IE track. But does that mean that that will always be the case? Maybe down the line it might be sensible to use some underutilised IE track (such as the Midland line) for a new metro line or spur. Or use some underutilised RPA track for a DART type service. I don't know. I just can't see that we're doing ourselves any favours by having two Government agencies building rail tracks to a different gauge.

I can understand how the private companies of old might have had their reasons for building tracks to different gauges - possibly even in some cases to prevent competitors from having access to stations and lines. But two government agencies?

metrobest wrote:

Re the RPA - I thought its role was to procure new railway infrastructure. I'd rather the RPA handle this Midelton line, as well as the interconnector. RPA has all the expertise when it comes to building new lines, and no doubt lessons have been learned for some of the communication failures of the luas project. CIE, on the other hand, never learns. But it does seem to know a thing or two about apartments.

I agree - it would seem to make sense to have one agency running all rail infrastructure. If the RPA are so good, let it be them, and let CIE handle the real estate. It is complete nonsense to have two agencies competing with each other to build lines. The travelling public may well lose out eventually.

Sgt Slaughter

I want to go on the railroad

mackerski

Metrobest wrote:

And when luas, built to standard gauge, has been Ireland most successful rail project in history?

What, ever since 1834? You don't imagine that any part of the old network may have brought more of a transport revolution to Ireland? Back in a day with crap roads and no motor vehicles? Not being terribly objective here, I fear. (Granted, all those old-time rail users would have been very put out by the iffy gauge, but still...)

Dermot

paulm17781

Is the Luas more sucessful than the DART?

Chris_533976

mackerski wrote:

Back in a day with crap roads

When did that day ever end

parsi

Metrobest wrote:

For some history on Irish railway gauges, try
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_in_Ireland

It's interesting to note that the Dublin-Kingstown railway was initially 1435mm, the gauge of luas and metro systems the world over. It was then relaid to the "CIE special" gauge. What a joyful day that was. :rolleyes:

Indeed. Strange that you call it the "CIE Special" gauge considering it was drafted by the British Board of Trade (you may remember that we were occupied by the British for a few years) around a 100-odd years before CIE was formed.

So it should really be better described as a "British-imposed gauge designed to cripple future railway plans".

(edit for spelling)

MarkoP11

The gauge in the UK and Ireland was set in 1846 (100 years before CIE existed). You can read it yourself http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/HMG_Act_Reg1846.pdf

The Irish gauge was chosen as a rough average of the three lines in existance at the time and a level playing field ensued as all lines had to be altered this ensured no commercial advantage to any private company. It was actually to ensure a proper joined up system was built to prevent anti competitive practices of one railway blocking another. Given the situation of the time its hard to fault the logic, and 160 years on its still not a problem

John R

Metrobest wrote:

It's interesting to note that the Dublin-Kingstown railway was initially 1435mm, the gauge of luas and metro systems the world over. It was then relaid to the "CIE special" gauge. What a joyful day that was. :rolleyes:

Just shows the lengths of stupidity that you will stoop to in order to score anti-CIE points, blaming them for a decision taken a century before the company came into existense.

In fact the worst guage decision ever made was the acceptance of Stephenson's guage as standard over Brunel's forward thinking 7 foot gauge. We could now have 8-10 foot wide bodied trains capable of much higher capacity and better ride/sability at higher speeds.

1435mm wasn't chosen for any inherent ability, it was the gauge used in the horse-drawn quarry line that the Stephenson's originally worked at. When they were commissioned to build more lines they just kept on using it.

Metrobest wrote:

So, why would we build metro to a rogue gauge which has failed everywhere in the world, including Ireland? And when luas, built to standard gauge, has been Ireland most successful rail project in history?

The luas and metro will be interoperable using the standard gauge found in metro systems almost everywhere. The metro has absolutely zero need to operate on a DART or Irish Rail track. It is a point to point, segregated, high-frequency line. Its gauge isn't relevent; even Platform 11 accepts that now doesn't it?

There is a much higher possibility of it being joined up with other irish railway lines than with mainland european metros

The only reason Irish gauge has "failed" elsewhere is because the operation of different gauge lines within countries/regions was a problem preventing interoperability. Changing the lesser used to connect with the other was the logical choice.

John R

http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/news.asp?action=view&news_id=156

Midleton line Railway Order process underway by Corporate Communications

Iarnród Éireann has said that advertisements are to appear in local and national newspapers from today (Friday 26th May) to commence the Railway Order process for the restoration of rail services on the Cork-Midleton rail line.

An integral part of the Transport 21 investment programme, the upgrade and restoration of the ten kilometre Glounthaune to Midleton line will enable Iarnród Éireann to begin commuter services between Cork and Midleton.

Services proposed on the route would be initially peak services every 30 minutes between Midleton and Cork, with the potential to expand to every 15 minutes as demand increases. Off-peak services would operate hourly, and all services would be operated by commuter railcars. It is envisaged that the line would reopen in 2008.

The project proposes:

- upgrading track on the disused Glounthaune to Midleton line, through provision of a single track with a passing loop at Carrigtwohill

- providing a new signalling system

- provision of two new stations at Midleton and Carrigtwohill, including car parking facilities, lifts and footbridges

- the replacement of five level crossings with four new overbridges and one underbridge, including overbridges on the Cork-Glounthaune section of line

- other infrastructure work including bridge, boundary and drainage works

The Railway Order process, the equivalent of a planning permission process for a rail scheme of this type, provides for a Public Inquiry to be established to establish the final scope of the project, and rule on Compulsory Purchase Order powers for Iarnród Éireann.

Full details of the project will be on display in seven locations in Cork, Carrigtwohill and Midleton (see below) to allow the public and interested parties to study the plans and make submissions if they wish. Information will also be available on line at http://www.irishrail.ie/midletonproject .

The Midleton line works are part of a wider programme of investment to expand Cork area commuter services. New stations are also planned at Dunkettle on the Cork-Cobh/Midleton line; and Blarney and Blackpool/Kilbarry on the Cork-Mallow line.

The Cork commuter area investment plan is endorsed by national, regional and local planning, such as the Cork Area Strategic Plan (CASP), Strategic Rail Review and Special Local Area Plans, as well as Transport 21.

A spokesperson for Iarnród Éireann said “ the development of the Midleton line is an integral part of a framework for land use, transportation, social and environmental policies in the Cork region which sees Cork take the lead in sustainable planning in this country. This will deliver a system which will benefit generations to come in Cork and in the Munster region. There has been tremendous public support for this major investment, and we would encourage the community and interested parties to avail of the opportunity to see the plans for the Midleton line in any of the seven locations, or online.”

GLOUNTHAUNE TO MIDLETON LINE FAQs

Q. WHEN WILL THE GLOUNTHAUNE TO MIDLETON LINE BE IN USE AGAIN?

A. It is expected that trains will be running to Midleton before the end of 2008.

Q. WHAT KIND OF TRAINS WILL RUN AND HOW OFTEN?

A. The same kind of trains will run on the Cork to Midleton line as run on the Cork to Cobh line today. i.e. two-car commuter railcars. It is intended to commence the service by running trains half-hourly for the morning and evening peak demand periods and hourly during the day and off-peak. Services can expand further in response to demand.

Q. WILL THERE BE DISRUPTION TO EXISTING SERVICES WHILE NEW TRACK AND OTHER ELEMENTS OF THE PROJECT ARE BEING BUILT?

A. There will be unavoidable disruption to existing road traffic in the vicinity of the existing railway line and two stations during the construction phase of the works at limited times during the development of the project. Iarnród Éireann will endeavour to minimise this, but the full extent of disruption will be confirmed following the public inquiry and detailed design work.

Q. WHAT IS THE RAILWAY ORDER AND PUBLIC INQUIRY?

A. The Railway Order is the equivalent of a planning permission process for railway line, stations and elimination of level crossings.

It also covers Compulsory Purchase Order powers for Iarnród Éireann and gives Iarnród Éireann full operating rights over the new railway.

Under the Railway Order, Iarnród Éireann will be displaying the full plans for the Project at various different locations for a period of 28 days. This is to allow all interested parties to view the plans.

Any interested party then has the opportunity up to 14 days after the end of the display period to submit any views they have on the project to the Minister for Transport.

All submissions, including the original plans, are then the subject of a public inquiry, chaired by an Inspector appointed by the Minister for Transport. The Inspector shall submit to the Minister a report in writing of the findings of the inquiry and any recommendations he/she considers appropriate having regard to the inquiry.

The Minister will rule on the final scope of the project and CPO powers for Iarnród Éireann.

Q. WILL THERE BE COMPULSORY PURCHASE ORDERS?

A. Under the Iarnród Eireann proposal, there will be certain areas of land required not currently in the ownership of the company. This includes land to facilitate the project which may be permanently acquired; land over which rights including rights of way may be acquired; public or private rights of way which may be extinguished; public or private rights of way which may be temporarily interrupted; and land of which temporary possession may be taken. All affected landowners will be contacted directly by Iarnród Éireann to advise them of the scope of impact proposed on their property.

Q. DOES THE GLOUNTHAUNE TO MIDLETON RAILWAY PROJECT HAVE A WIDER SCOPE?

A. The project is part of wider infrastructure plans required for the growth of the Commuter rail service for the County and will include new stations at Dunkettle, Blackpool and Blarney and various other works such as signalling and station upgrades.

Q. WHAT IS THE TIMESCALE ENVISAGED FOR THE PROJECT?

A. Assuming the Public Inquiry takes place in late summer 2006, detailed design and tender of the works are envisaged to take place up to the end of 2006, with construction taking place from early 2007 to late 2008.

Q. WHAT ARE THE COSTS ENVISAGED FOR THE PROJECT?

A. The final costs will be determined by the ruling of the Minister following the Public Inquiry, detailed design work and any inflationary pressures up to the signing of contracts.

Q. WILL THE GLOUNTHAUNE TO MIDLETON LINE BE EXTENDED TO YOUGHAL AGAIN?

A. Although there is no plan to re-use this line from Midleton to Youghal in the short to medium term; the County Planners have reserved the existing railway reserve for the potential reuse of the railway.

Q. WHERE CAN I FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THE GLOUNTHAUNE TO MIDLETON LINE PROJECT?

The full Railway Order documentation, including:

- Plans of the Route

- Alignment Plans

- Structure Plans

- Draft legal order and schedules to the order

- Environmental Impact Statement, in full and summary form

are on display from 26th May to 6th July 2006 at the following locations:

Cork City Council, Planning and Development Directorate, Navigation House, Albert Quay, Cork

Cork Central Library, Grand Parade, Cork

Cork County Council, Corporate Affairs Department, 14th Floor, County Hall, Cork

Midleton Town Council, Pearse Memorial Chambers, Youghal Road, Midleton, County Cork

Midleton Public Library, Main Street, Midleton, County Cork

Carrigtwohill Community Centre, Main Street, Carrigtwohill, County Cork

Iarnród Éireann Travel Centre, Kent Railway Station, Lower Glanmire Road, Cork

Information will also be displayed shortly in pdf format at: http://www.irishrail.ie/midletonproject

Full copies of the documentation are also available to purchase from the Iarnród Éireann Travel Centre in Kent Railway Station, Cork; and the Project Office, Inchicore Works, Dublin 8.

The Project office can also be contacted for those seeking information on the project at: 021-455 7255 and 01-7034228 or midletonproject@irishrail.ie

Chris_533976

Its good they're getting it going at last

Anyone know why they're replacing overbridges on the Cork-Glounthaune route? Didnt think any of them were in a bad condition.

MarkoP11

Current safety standards require 4.5m from the outer rail to the bridge abutment that would not be possible to achieve with existing bridges. The bridge at Carrigtwohill needs to be widened as it will become a 2 platform station

The bulk of level crossings are also being removed again safety standards dictate that level crossings are a last option and all possible alternatives should be investigated first. Long term it works out cheaper

Chris_533976

I await Union issues because the guy that works at the level crossing near the station will get sacked

Fool 5000

About Bloody Time

craigybagel

They keeping the crossing at middleton? Looks a bit close to the station to replace it with a bridge......

Stark

Fool 5000 wrote:

About Bloody Time

Aye.

Victor

Chris_533976 wrote:

Anyone know why they're replacing overbridges on the Cork-Glounthaune route? Didnt think any of them were in a bad condition.

At least one at Glounthaune has a 6-ton limit.

Victor

Added to an old page.

http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/projects/pdf/Glounthaune_Non-technical%20summary.pdf

Chris_533976

Interesting. Hard to tell from the pictures, but you know that disused building on the Lower Glanmire road thats covered in grafitti... is that where the crossing is going to go?

I bet there'll be fights over it tho. Residents nearby wont like it. TBH I dont think it will look great at all, it'll be like a big barrier, but I dont think theres much else they can do.

Navan Junction

Tim O'Brien, Irish Times, 08/06/2006

A public inquiry into Iarnród Éireann's plans to establish a commuter rail network in Co Cork is to be announced within weeks.

The network will include the development of new railway stations at Blarney, Kilbarry and Dunkettle, as well as the reopening of the Glaunthoune to Midleton line where stations will open at Carrigtwohill and Midleton.

Initially services between Midleton and Cork are to be every 30 minutes at peak times, with the potential to expand to every 15 minutes as demand increases.

Off-peak services are likely to operate hourly, and all services would be operated by commuter railcars.

It is envisaged that the line will reopen in 2008 using two-carriage diesel railcars. These would be similar to the trains currently running on the Cork, Glounthaune Cobh line.

The frequency of commuter services on the Mallow route has yet to be announced.

The work will involve the replacement of five level crossings with four overbridges and one underbridge, including overbridges on the Cork-Glounthaune section of line.

The Railway Order process which has been initiated by Iarnród Éireann is the equivalent of planning permission for railways. It involved the Minister calling a public inquiry and granting or refusing permission based on the inquiry report.

A spokesperson for Iarnród Éireann said the development of the Midleton line was an integral part of a framework for land use, transportation, and social and environmental policies in Cork.

Meanwhile, the inquiry report into how Iarnród Éireann plans to lay four tracks between Hazelhatch in Co Kildare and Dublin's Heuston station has found no major impediments to the scheme.

Final approval for the project is now expected to be granted by Transport Minister Martin Cullen, with work beginning by the end of this year.

It will separate commuter and inter-city trains and greatly increasing capacity on both services.

The inquiry report from inspector Pat Butler makes 11 recommendations. These are mainly in relation to the treatment of boundaries with local landowners.

However, the report does recommend that Iarnród Éireann and Dublin Bus carry out a review to ascertain that feeder buses are in place to serve new stations along the route.

The report also urges the Minister to ask Iarnród Éireann why new stations can not be built at Clondalkin in the short term.

The scheme envisages the closure of the existing Clondalkin station, which is said to be badly located, while there is no station serving Ballyfermot.

© The Irish Times

Victor

Lots of additional information.

http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/projects/railway_order_documents.asp


EIS would appear to be a year old. http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/projects/RailwayOrderDocumentsCD/04_GMR_EIS/Volume_2_Project_Setting/2005_05_12_Volume_2.pdf

Victor

Victor wrote:

http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/projects/railway_order_documents.asp

Some of those links go to the incorrect file.

dowlingm

Is there any plan for a Tivoli station down the line or has that been ruled out?

Victor

Not for the moment. Tivoli isn't very densely populated, south of the railway has heavy industrial type uses, north is a steep slope with low density housing.

Chris_533976

Im not even sure that a Dunkettle station is terribly needed. Glanmire is a fair way from the proposed station and everyone going to the station would have to cross the N25, and of course theres no way to do that at the moment, and I dont think any plans for lights/bridges.

Midleton - Glounthaune tho? Excellent idea, I'm all for it.

dowlingm

Victor - when the port goes downstream the developers will be into Tivoli like a shot

Chris_533976 - Dunkettle is primarily aimed at Park and Ride.

Victor

dowlingm wrote:

Victor - when the port goes downstream the developers will be into Tivoli like a shot

But they would have to commit to Marino Point or some other site first. There may also be the matter of oil contamination - I don't know.

Chris_533976 - Dunkettle is primarily aimed at Park and Ride.

Is Dunkettle in the current proposals, I've only gone through some of the documents and have seen no reference so far. The was a station at Dunkettle until I suspect the 1970s.

dowlingm

Victor - the downstream port will be Ringaskiddy :mad:

As for Dunkettle, I was thinking the same thing but it may be folded into the Kilbarry/Blarney part of the project?

Chris_533976

I've heard of a P&R at Dunkettle... would be a good idea in theory but would probobly clog up the N25/N8 interchange a bit.

Where they'd put it, I'm not sure. Theres a HUGE car storage place there near the Glanmire interchange.... thats the only place I really think they could put it - its next to the railway line and all.

Trouble is its been expanded a lot recently and I'd say the company probobly wouldnt want to sell to the County Council. I could be wrong tho.