BMWs

Elessar

What is it about BMWs that is so popular? I know that they look fantasic (well, not the 06 models...) but what else is it that makes them so appealing?

I have only recently started driving, but already I'm eyeing up buying a beamer. I hear they're nice to drive - but what does that mean really? All cars have a steering wheel to go left and right.

And what about the rivals? I know Mercedes are built like a tank, at least the older models, and from that alone I would even consider going for one of them instead. And what of Audi? All these German motors have fairly equal specs and additions (like climate control etc). Is it just down to brand?

It would be nice to get some opinions on this as I hope to buy a beamer or so in the future, but due to sheer expense, it won't be for some time to come. So I'd like to get as many opinions as possible here.

peasant

What makes them so popular?

perception, perception, perception ....

or is it deception?

colm_mcm

I think it's a mixture of heritage, rear wheel drive and percieved superiority.

can't see the point in the "cheap" ones. you generally need at least a 6 cylinder engine to actually enjoy driving one*


* or a high powered diesel, of course

cancan

Nothing lets the world know how great a photocopier salesman your are like a 316 BMW.

Unless once can afford at least a 6 cylinder beemer, don't waste your money.

Bit like buying a 32MB Ipod.

colm_mcm

A friend of mine bough a 1.6 litre. 316i for €39,500 - showed her the Lexus 177bhp IS220D for another €5,000.... she was regretful

dahamsta

My first car was and is a '93 525i and it's been bulletproof since I got it. Solid build, great ride, good handling for a big car, classic looks, nice bit of poke when it's needed, and absolutely great for long journeys. All I've needed to do since I got it was some work on the front suspension, for €1500. I'm pretty sure I'd've spent a hell of a lot more on a 13 year old Mundane or similar. Course I've probably spent more on petrol than a Mundane, but then I'm not driving a Mundane...

unkel

I always liked BMWs but no more than many other cars. Until I bought my first one by chance 6 years ago. I've been very impressed ever since. Mind we're talking large V8 petrol saloons here, not 3-series

cancan wrote:

Bit like buying a 32MB Ipod

LOL - I love the comparison. Still I don't blame people who prefer a 32MB Ipod over a 1GB memory stick though

mike65

I think dahamsta (a man, like unkel who is after my own heart on this old German car business) has summed it up. Not that I'd be seen dead in a Bimmer of course*

Why anyone would even consider a new one is another matter, a Mondeo will beat a 3 series hands down and is more exclusive these days! For a 5 the Audi A6 would seem wiser and the 7 is proberly outgunned by the Lexus GS (even if it looks like a pile of poo) and Merc S class

Mike.

*'cept old 6 series

Ice_Box

Dont buy a BMW, nobody will let you in when you need to change lanes. And people will accelerate when you try to evertake them.

Henry Ford III

colm_mcm wrote:

A friend of mine bough a 1.6 litre. 316i for €39,500 - showed her the Lexus 177bhp IS220D for another €5,000.... she was regretful

She was also clearly hard of hearing

That IS220D is an gravy stain on the bib of the usually refined Lexus brand. It's very crude and downright loud.

colm_mcm

it's only loud on tickover with the aircon running (very annoying) but it's very quiet on the move. at motorway speeds in 6th it's very Lexus-like (and light on fuel!)

Guy:Incognito

unkel wrote:

LOL - I love the comparison. Still I don't blame people who prefer a 32MB Ipod over a 1GB memory stick though

Well in fairness, if you want something to play music, an mp3 player is always going to be better than a storage device.

unkel

Stekelly wrote:

Well in fairness, if you want something to play music, an mp3 player is always going to be better than a storage device.

You've missed the point entirely. If you want a storage device (A-B vehicle), a 1GB one is bigger and better value than a 32MB one. If you want your storage device to give you music as well (sheer driving pleasure), the IPOD wins hands down

unkel

colm_mcm wrote:

A friend of mine bough a 1.6 litre. 316i for €39,500 - showed her the Lexus 177bhp IS220D for another €5,000.... she was regretful

Just as well you didn't tell her she could have a genuine BMW 320d for similar money as that Lexus. Surely she would have topped herself then

Guy:Incognito

unkel wrote:

You've missed the point entirely.

I did indeed, my bad.

dahamsta

mike65 wrote:

and Merc S class

Which also looks like a pile of poo. What is the deal with those arches? Did they help one of the nineties bodykit manufacturers clear out their attic?

adam

The CLS, on the other hand... yum yum.

Oilrig

We have a Lexus LS400 & a BMW 318I (old model)

The beemer wins hand down as a nicer car to drive, its like a go kart, really interesting to drive. The Lexus is pure luxury but its more like a video game than a car - no sense of driving it?

The Beemer is economical (40mpg on a run), responsive, and the insrtuments are better positioned than the Lexus.

Neither has given a minutes bother. Just that the Beemer feels better to drive, even though it has three times the mileage, I can't explain.

Can't see us replacing the LS400 with another one, shot our load if you like. The new 530 is looking good.

PS Had several Mercs but had horrendous reliability problems - coupled with bad dealer service - never agian.

bazz26

unkel wrote:

Just as well you didn't tell her she could have a genuine BMW 320d for similar money as that Lexus. Surely she would have topped herself then

Maybe not. With the 320D ES you will not have much change left from €51k once you tick the options list to bring the spec up to the standard on the entry IS220D. Add climate control, cd changer, upgrade speakers, cruise control, etc and it gets very expensive. Even a rear centre arm rest is a €130 option on the basic €46k 320D ES.

The 3 Series might be a sharper drive than the IS but it doesn't represent value for money. Some people however maybe happier to be seen in a spartant 3 Series.

dahamsta

Oilrig wrote:

The Lexus is pure luxury but its more like a video game than a car - no sense of driving it?

Exactly why a 400 will be my next car. Six points is quite enough thank you.

bazz26

Oilrig wrote:

We have a Lexus LS400 & a BMW 318I (old model)

The beemer wins hand down as a nicer car to drive, its like a go kart, really interesting to drive. The Lexus is pure luxury but its more like a video game than a car - no sense of driving it?

The Beemer is economical (40mpg on a run), responsive, and the insrtuments are better positioned than the Lexus.

Neither has given a minutes bother. Just that the Beemer feels better to drive, even though it has three times the mileage, I can't explain.

Can't see us replacing the LS400 with another one, shot our load if you like. The new 530 is looking good.

PS Had several Mercs but had horrendous reliability problems - coupled with bad dealer service - never agian.

Strange comparision you have there - A 4.0 litre barge and a 1.9 litre compact saloon.

unkel

dahamsta wrote:

Exactly why a 400 will be my next car

Enjoy the music while you're floating about

JHMEG

Your average BMW is below average in terms of reliability, is RWD for the sake of it (it doesn't have the power to make use of it), has a scabby spec list, will wear out the syncromesh on 3rd if you leave your hand resting on the gearstick, and is more common-as-muck than a Ford Mondeo.

But... it does have a good turning circle.

My (factual) 2c. Take it or leave it.

unkel

JHMEG wrote:

Your average BMW is RWD for the sake of it

You, Sir, have just made a fool out of yourself. Prepare to enjoy the power of Google which will never fail to remember your post here

Unless it goes bankrupt

JHMEG

unkel wrote:

You, Sir, have just made a fool out of yourself. Prepare to enjoy the power of Google which will never fail to remember your post here

Unless it goes bankrupt

Eh... a hundred-and-fsck-all bhp is lip service.

Your point is?

Andrewf20

Even with 136 bhp, and wet surfaces, with RWD, drifting can be easily granted. Although a LSD is a big help.

Cant believe a basic 116i cost 30k as far as I know. Id rather have a new Golf GTI for a few grand more.

maidhc

unkel wrote:

You, Sir, have just made a fool out of yourself. Prepare to enjoy the power of Google which will never fail to remember your post here

I'd agree with him. Is RWD so much better than a well balanced FWD chassis like one would find in a Ford Mondeo? I can appreciate a difference when you are dealing with major power, but with your average car up to 200bhp I doubt it!

The BMWs are nice cars,and I will buy a big one one sometime, but the smaller ones are very very conservative, they are poorly specced for the price, and no more reliable or better built than much cheaper cars such as Ford or Toyota.

colm_mcm

I would rate a Mondeo TDCI over a 316i, Who buys a new 3 series to drift?

peasant

If you want to drift, get a Suzuki Jimny

17 k, 1.3 and 80 bhp ...and it'll shake its ass at you like a Brazilian samba dancer

galwaytt

Drift....in a 3-series..............only on your PSP or PS2, methinks. Even dumping the clutch on the loud pedal of the 320 only gets.............bogging. Between a complete lack of power, traction control, and an engine that needs a telegram to wake it up............well...........

Nope, imho, 2l is too small for sixes - 4pots respond better, and rev quicker. Witness Altezza 4-pots vs IS 6-pots. Almost the same car, but not quite. Both nice, but Altezza 'feels' better.

FWIW, I test drove a new 320d Tiptronic lately, as I was very, very impressed with a friend's 01 320d - stonking engine, actually - but the new one was awful - suspension was as hard as a rock. Nicer inside than the 'old' one, but outside is a bit of an acquired taste, that's for sure............

Actually, if it's 2l, we shouldn't even include the petrols - the 320d is better than most, anyway.

layke

BMW's are popular because your nobody in business unless you have a Merc, Jag or BMW. However these models being the businessman's choice makes them also the assholes' choice of car.

Hence the reason why propper BMW enthusiasts are tarred with the same brush. The majority of BMW drivers just know that they are 'good business cars' and nothing more.

I would like to reinforce the statement ::

Nothing lets the world know how great a photocopier salesman your are like a 316 BMW.

It's like buying a Merc C180 without a supercharger... it's like your nearly there but, not, quite, yet. In fairness I find myself thinking the exact same however the 3 series is as common as muck.

"It's the cheapest one but it's still a Merc, you know."

JHMEG

maidhc wrote:

and no more reliable or better built than much cheaper cars such as ... Toyota.

Toyota kicks BMW big time in the reliability stakes.

Henry Ford III

colm_mcm wrote:

it's only loud on tickover with the aircon running (very annoying) but it's very quiet on the move. at motorway speeds in 6th it's very Lexus-like (and light on fuel!)

I don't agree.

Seth Brundle

Ice_Box wrote:

Dont buy a BMW, nobody will let you in when you need to change lanes. And people will accelerate when you try to evertake them.

Thats rubbish. I get the same treatment whether Im in my 5 series or my wifes 106 and its nothing to do with my driving - its just that people don't like letting cars out!

RobAMerc

I have spent the last 6 months looking at changing my car. I have driven everything from Audi tt, A4 cabrio, Volvo C70, Saab 93, Merc clk and bought a bmw.
Admittedly I am a bit embarrased by the "w*nker" image, which is why I didnt consider one till recently.
But having done my usual research, when I did finally surcome to drive it, I realized why it took me so long to find what I was after.

Basically for smaller engine models the chassis is over engineered but the thing rides, handles, is build, and (6 cylinder) sounds as well as if not better than any of the rest of them in any of these areas.

I still do look at guys in 316 and 318's and think, if it wasnt for the image he'd never have bought it, but they truely are worth the extra if you know what it is your getting for your money.

Ps this is number 20ish of a list of varied classic and sports cars so I do feel I have a bit of an idea whats what at this stage.

maidhc wrote:

no more reliable or better built than much cheaper cars such as Ford or Toyota.

I respect this though, but in my eyes the BMW is better engineered than any Toyota (although newer Fords have narrowed the gap with the controll blade suspension etc), and thats what I am paying for, reliability while important is less of a factor for me. (unless it effects resale which unfortuneately has happened other brands)

cancan

People generally buy executive cars more in an attempt to impress their neighbours than themselves.

BMW make some fine cars - it's just a pity that most people buy their crappy ones.

40k for a 1.6 ltr 3 series.
God bless the boom - there's a old saying about fools and their money.

And the 1 series - probably BMW's most pathetic attempt in years....
I think I'd rather have an STD than have to have one of those yokes parked in my driveway.

Now throw a 3ltr into a 3 series, and they begin to make sence - although the money involved is verging on madness. But each to their own i suppose.

dahamsta

The 1 series is a lovely looking car, and I'm pretty sure I've seen reports that the pokier versions widdle all over several of their bigger brothers.

Can't stand the 3 series meself. Rubbish from start to finish, has been since the original M3. Hairdresser's cars.

adam

peasant

dahamsta wrote:

The 1 series is a lovely looking car

Does the term "optician" mean something to you ?

No?

"Specsavers", maybe ?

cancan

The colin montgomerie of cars........

JHMEG

There's something ZZ Top about the 1 alright, but not in a cool way...

dahamsta

peasant wrote:

Does the term "optician" mean something to you ?

Each to his or her own peasant, no need to be rude.

Gatster

I'd have a 130i if someone donated one, but wouldn't buy one even if I was in the market. My 323i Coupe was the best car I'ver ever owned (and the longest I've ever owned a car), and I'm going to get an M3 at some point next year. The first car I ever owned was an Alpina kitted E21 320i and I've never really looked back (I've owned other makes along the way), though I don't like the new 3 series saloon or any base spec 1,3,5,z4,x3...

colm_mcm

Henry Ford III wrote:

I don't agree.

have you ever had one for any length of time, or even driven one?

peasant

dahamsta wrote:

Each to his or her own peasant, no need to be rude.

come on ...seriously now ...

That yoke looks like a gale swept through the drawing room in first year design school, blew all the different drawings of different cars around and somebody just picked up the pieces of paper and randomly created the one series.

Nothing on this car fits together. The bonnet is too long ...but not E-Type-sexy long, just wrong. The grill has no connection or relation with the headlamps ..it has a face like a drunken chinaman. The cabin looks squashed, the rear doors look like an afterthought (which they surely were) and the arse end of the thing looks like they simply ran out of space ...ooops we mustn't make it any langer than x mm, so we better stop here.


Feel free to like it as much as you want, but you can not seriously call that contraption a goodlooking car ...sorry ...

dahamsta

I'm being lectured on taste and style by someone with a camper?

peasant

and not just a camper ...a buck ugly camper on top of it !

dahamsta

A shed on wheels is a shed on wheels in my book!

(My old man had one of the small ones, I still don't get it. American style RV's, yes, because they're a home away from home and you can drive them into the Glastonbury festival; but the dinky ones defy logic.)

maidhc

dahamsta wrote:

A shed on wheels is a shed on wheels in my book!

(My old man had one of the small ones, I still don't get it. American style RV's, yes, because they're a home away from home and you can drive them into the Glastonbury festival; but the dinky ones defy logic.)

I don't own one, but have had the loan of one once or twice. They are very cleverly designed, and sure as hell beat a tent in our climate. Great way to tour. Anyway.

unkel

bazz26 wrote:

Maybe not. With the 320D ES you will not have much change left from €51k once you tick the options list to bring the spec up to the standard on the entry IS220D

I guess it depends on what you want in a car. There's a lot to say for a small exec luxurious and (at long last) diesel ueberToyota with a great sound system and lots of toys. Still no automatic available though, big mistake!

But you're right. Plenty (perhaps even most) people that buy expensive cars brand new care a lot for image and status. A status-conscious friend bought a new GS recently. He was very happy with it for a few months but then couldn't get rid of it quick enough after being slagged off by his peers. He was a bit like people here a few years ago who bought the SC430 when it came out. Another Celtic nouveau riche fad to put it bluntly

maidhc

unkel wrote:

A status-conscious friend bought a new GS recently. He was very happy with it for a few months but then couldn't get rid of it quick enough after being slagged off by his peers.

That is more a self confidence issue though.

I know one "business man" who wouldn't drive anything other than a Camry for years so as not to appear too much like "the boss" to his employees.

bazz26

unkel wrote:

I guess it depends on what you want in a car. There's a lot to say for a small exec luxurious and (at long last) diesel ueberToyota with a great sound system and lots of toys. Still no automatic available though, big mistake!

But you're right. Plenty (perhaps even most) people that buy expensive cars brand new care a lot for image and status. A status-conscious friend bought a new GS recently. He was very happy with it for a few months but then couldn't get rid of it quick enough after being slagged off by his peers. He was a bit like people here a few years ago who bought the SC430 when it came out. Another Celtic nouveau riche fad to put it bluntly

Agree with you on the diesel Lexus, the ommission of an auto box from the range in this market could be damaging.

A bit O/T but I think Lexus were in two minds, they are going full steam ahead with hybrid technology yet I think they decided that a hybrid compact executive saloon may not be a viable solution or at least it needs more market research. So as there was already a mid range capacity diesel available for the parent company, they may just done it as a temperary solution. Lexus may not be the sharpest handling cars or best in class to drive but their level of refinement, smooth petrol engines and comfort are still very good, generally alot of thought goes into their cars.

peasant

unkel wrote:

But you're right. Plenty (perhaps even most) people that buy expensive cars brand new care a lot for image and status. A status-conscious friend bought a new GS recently. He was very happy with it for a few months but then couldn't get rid of it quick enough after being slagged off by his peers. He was a bit like people here a few years ago who bought the SC430 when it came out. Another Celtic nouveau riche fad to put it bluntly

But that's the bit I don't get ...how does the perceived image and glory of the bigger Beemers consistently manange to trickle down to even the most basic, underpowered and underspecced entry model 3 series?

Surely everybody that spent huge bucks on one must notice pretty quickly that it is a million miles away from "the ultimate driving machine" and that even the wifes Micra has better spec?

But yet they don't feel cheated but continue to bask in make-believe glory with a proud grin on their face ...look what I can afford ...

I just don't get it ...