Purchasing 19 Computers & 20 Printers for a national school

axer

Hey y'all,

I am helping out a local national school to pick computers & printers for their school. The school is networked with broadband.

They want 19 computers and 20 printers. I dont think networked printers are really an option i.e. kids leaving class to pick up print outs but I am open to suggestions. They have thrown out all their computers (233mhz) so are starting from fresh.

I was thinking about just telling them to buy the following from dell:

PROCESSOR: Intel® Celeron® D 346 Processor (3.06GHz, 533MHz, 256k)
OPERATING SYSTEM: XP Home
SUPPORT SERVICES: Collect & Return, 1 Year Service only
MONITOR: 17" Value Flat Panel (E177FP)
MEMORY: 512MB Dual Channel DDR2 533MHz [2x256] Memory
HARD DRIVE: 160GB - will see if 40/80GB hdd is cheaper.
OPTICAL DRIVE: 48x CDRW/DVD Combo Drive
GRAPHICS CARD: Integrated
SOUND CARDS: Integrated
SPEAKERS: Dell™ A225 Stereo Speakers
KEYBOARD: Entry Level
MOUSE: Optical
FLOPPY/MEDIA DRIVES: 1.44MB Floppy Drive (not 100% sure about this but it seems like a good idea to have floppy drives still) - 30 euro extra per computer! :eek:
MODEMS: No Modem
NETWORK: Integrated

€573.54 inc VAT

I am not sure when it comes to printers. I was thinking of just getting this Canon Pixma iP1300 but was also thinking about getting the Dell All-In-One Printer 946 for each classroom or at least for some classrooms so that teachers could copy pages in their classroom. I hate the way you have to buy the ink from dell (?) though although it might not be so bad as at least they can order a good few at a time.

Anyone have any better ideas or suggestions?

Thanks for any help/advice.

petes

That price for the celeron machine. Did you just do that online? You should get talking to a a sales guy. Tell him what you are after and knock some more euros off that.

is_that_so

If you contact Dell Business directly you may well get a better price from them. With an order that size you should get a volume discount.

layke

Whoah shop HP and IBM as well, you never know there may be better deals.

colm_c

I'd also look into upping the 1 year support to a 3yr support - unless they have some IT person there they'll struggle if something goes wrong.

For educational there are also some dirt cheap versions of windows XP Pro/XP Home, I think they're about 50% of the price of a standard version, same for MS Office I think - talk to dell/microsoft and they should be able to sort you out.

XP Pro has much better networking than XP Home.

Also some of those locks to lock the PC's to desks/walls might be handy - things tend to have a habit of walking off in schools and colleges...

A proxy server might also be handy to restrict certain sites (*ahem* bebo *ahem*) and could be run from one of those old machines quite easily.

Also virus software is essential for an open setup, again there's some good educational deals to be had from Norton/Symantec.

challengemaster

30 quid for a floppy drive?! bs they're 10 quid on komplett

re: anti-virus, get avg free 7.5

norton is practically a virus itself tbh.

Ruu_Old

Definitely talk to an agent over the phone and make sure whoever you deal with gives you some sort of a discount.

is_that_so

axer wrote:

I am not sure when it comes to printers.

A couple of networked printers make more sense tbh. Just means teachers having to be organised and print stuff out at end or before class. Crazy to buy so many printers when the cash could be better spent on educational software etc.

colm_c

challengemaster wrote:

30 quid for a floppy drive?! bs they're 10 quid on komplett

Yeah but dell's case design is strange and there's no 'place' for the floppy like other cases, it needs the full surround...

axer

petes wrote:

That price for the celeron machine. Did you just do that online? You should get talking to a a sales guy. Tell him what you are after and knock some more euros off that.

Yep, just did it online but was planning on calling them to knock some off it.

colm_c wrote:

I'd also look into upping the 1 year support to a 3yr support - unless they have some IT person there they'll struggle if something goes wrong.

I was thinking about that but the problem is that I can't see them calling dell because they would be more inclined to get someone local to come in and fix their computer. People have asked me to come in and fix computers even when they have a service contract with dell - just afraid it might be a waste of 1200 odd euro (of course thats the price per computer not an overall support contract price). Anyone know what dell's onsite service is like? What happens if it is spyware or viruses that ****ed up the computers? i.e. will they fix the computers damaged by viruses/spyware or will they charge seperatefor that? Asked them that question before and they wouldn't give me a straight answer. Anyone know from experience? Was going to ask dell to price a support package for all the computers as a whole to see what they can offer. Would look after everything myself but I'm moving abroad after christmas.

colm_c wrote:

For educational there are also some dirt cheap versions of windows XP Pro/XP Home, I think they're about 50% of the price of a standard version, same for MS Office I think - talk to dell/microsoft and they should be able to sort you out.

Will ask dell about them on the phone then.

colm_c wrote:

XP Pro has much better networking than XP Home.

True, will look at getting pro if it can come with an educational licence i.e. cheaper.

colm_c wrote:

Also some of those locks to lock the PC's to desks/walls might be handy - things tend to have a habit of walking off in schools and colleges...

Yep, will look in to that alright. Would probably be ok in this school as it is only a national school but if it is feasible then I will include locks.

colm_c wrote:

A proxy server might also be handy to restrict certain sites (*ahem* bebo *ahem*) and could be run from one of those old machines quite easily.

No problems with that as the schools broadband program has a filter built in with all broadband connections i.e. all the connections use a common remote proxy IIRC.

colm_c wrote:

Also virus software is essential for an open setup, again there's some good educational deals to be had from Norton/Symantec.

Yes will contact them about bulk educational licences.

is_that_so wrote:

A couple of networked printers make more sense tbh. Just means teachers having to be organised and print stuff out at end or before class. Crazy to buy so many printers when the cash could be better spent on educational software etc.

You're right there but I'm not sure it is practical though as the kids need to get their printouts there and then. They don't want the kids to have to leave the class to pick up printouts.

challengemaster wrote:

30 quid for a floppy drive?! bs they're 10 quid on komplett

Damn right - can't really buy 19 dells without floppys and add them all afterward tho

challengemaster wrote:

re: anti-virus, get avg free 7.5

Not exactly free for schools though. I will price up a few different ones with education licences and see which one is most feasible.

challengemaster wrote:

norton is practically a virus itself tbh.

Am not a big fan of it myself either but it does the job well. I like kaspersky but had a few problems with it also.

Thanks everyone for the replies. Keep them coming.

monkey tennis

is_that_so wrote:

Crazy to buy so many printers when the cash could be better spent on educational software etc.

I agree, buying 20 seperate printers is nuts.

About the floppy drives, you should just get 3 or 4 USB drives and have them locked away to be brought out if they're ever needed (not likely).

Orion

They should speak to the Dept of Education. Dell have a tender with them which is cheaper still. I can probably get the details for you from a teacher I know.

I'd leave out the fdd tbh especially at that price. Get one or two usb ones instead for the very odd occasion that they're needed.

I'm assuming that all these pcs are for different classrooms rather than a computer lab. Is that why you need so many printers? If they're for a lab just get two and an cheapo print server box from komplett.

Orion

Another note - AVG is free for educational use afaik. Also M$ do extremely good terms on their software for schools if you contact them directly. There's plenty of free educational software out there as well - just google it.

Sparky

Would you not be able to get 20 VLK's from microsoft for the dell systems?

Also 20 printers is mad. That's 20 print cartridges to replace down the road when they go also.
Why not get 4 or 5 networked printers?
Put the most used ones in the classrooms and one in a central area so that the print can be collected later?

I also agree with ringing up a sales agent. I have heard in cases of an order like that where one or two of the complete PC's comes free.

SouperComputer

AVG is not free for educational use. They do offer an educational discount however. That said, if you are paying for AV, get the best: NOD32. They also do educational discounts.

You may also consider ewido (AKA AVG's) antispyware. Its the best all-round package about. Again, they do educational discounts too.

4 or 5 networked printers, be sure to work out the TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) base on average sheets per toner/toner cost as very often the cheap printers cost almost litterally and arm and a leg to run. Brother's LASER's although expensive to buy are really cheap to run.

Also, if buying a colur laser, be aware that some cheaper ones will refuse to print if ANY of the toners run out.

For the PC's give www.encom.ie a shot.

Bin the floppies, unless the price is reasaonable. a 32Mb key can be sourced for 5euro these days, its a no brainer IMO. As someone else said, get a couple of USB floppies just in case.

If its a school you MUST have a proxy, DOE's orders. A server could be setup using clarkconnect. It includes dansguardian which is an excellent web filtering software. It can also work as a domain controller, file, web and email server etc etc.

axer

monkey tennis wrote:

I agree, buying 20 seperate printers is nuts.

About the floppy drives, you should just get 3 or 4 USB drives and have them locked away to be brought out if they're ever needed (not likely).

I would love not to get 20 printers but I don't think they will go for network printers for the aforementioned reasons.

Macros42 wrote:

They should speak to the Dept of Education. Dell have a tender with them which is cheaper still. I can probably get the details for you from a teacher I know.

Yes please PM the details if you can.

Macros42 wrote:

I'd leave out the fdd tbh especially at that price. Get one or two usb ones instead for the very odd occasion that they're needed.

Thats what I may do yet or I might look into setting one computer up as a file server.

Macros42 wrote:

I'm assuming that all these pcs are for different classrooms rather than a computer lab. Is that why you need so many printers? If they're for a lab just get two and an cheapo print server box from komplett.

Yes the printers are for a number of classes dotted around the school. One per room.

Sparky-s wrote:

Would you not be able to get 20 VLK's from microsoft for the dell systems?

Will def find out about this tomorrow along with educational licences, thanks.

Sparky-s wrote:

Also 20 printers is mad. That's 20 print cartridges to replace down the road when they go also.
Why not get 4 or 5 networked printers?
Put the most used ones in the classrooms and one in a central area so that the print can be collected later?

I really think that they want to be able to print there and then in each classroom but I will explain to them the advantages of networked printers.

SouperComputer wrote:

AVG is not free for educational use. They do offer an educational discount however. That said, if you are paying for AV, get the best: NOD32. They also do educational discounts.

Thats what I thought too.

SouperComputer wrote:

You may also consider ewido (AKA AVG's) antispyware. Its the best all-round package about. Again, they do educational discounts too.

Will def look at that, thanks.

SouperComputer wrote:

Bin the floppies, unless the price is reasaonable. a 32Mb key can be sourced for 5euro these days, its a no brainer IMO. As someone else said, get a couple of USB floppies just in case.

True.

SouperComputer wrote:

If its a school you MUST have a proxy, DOE's orders. A server could be setup using clarkconnect. It includes dansguardian which is an excellent web filtering software. It can also work as a domain controller, file, web and email server etc etc.

I am very certain you don't need to set up a proxy as each PC is given a public IP address which goes through the departments filter. When the schools got broadband they were all given a form to fill out to decide the level of filtering they wanted on their connection.

Again, thanks everyone for the replies. I want to sort this out for them as best and as cheaply as I can as I once went to school there some time back - there was no sign of computers in the school in those days of course.

Anyone know anything about these Interactive Whiteboards? Just not sure if they are value for money. They are about €6,000 - €10,000 each I believe. The school wants to purchase 2 of them - the school is split with a public road down the middle.

Orion

axer wrote:

I am very certain you don't need to set up a proxy as each PC is given a public IP address which goes through the departments filter. When the schools got broadband they were all given a form to fill out to decide the level of filtering they wanted on their connection.

I'm certain you don't have to - I know two schools that don't. But it's advisable.

I'll try to get those details for you and either post here or pm it.

[edit]My mistake re: avg. I thought they were free for educational.

subway

windows live one care = firewall/spyware/av all in one.
its relatively cheap to license generally (50eu for 5 machines for 1 year) so an edu discount will be even more id guess.

its based on a good antivirus solution - gdata

sdanseo

Your quote is incl. VAT - im sure this is refundable for schools, at least in part?

djmarkus

go the thin client route

Stephen

Don't get the dell all in one printers, they will cost an arm and a leg, and probably a kidney too to run.

Decent laser printers will cost more initially but should be cheaper to run and maintain for their lifetime.

axer

Ok I got on to Dell directly and this is what they offered me.

Heres what they are offering:

PROCESSOR: AMD Athlon 64 3200
OPERATING SYSTEM: XP Home
SUPPORT SERVICES: Collect & Return, 1 Year Service only
MONITOR: 17" Value Flat Panel (E177FP)
MEMORY: 512MB Dual Channel DDR2 533MHz [2x256] Memory
HARD DRIVE: 80GB
OPTICAL DRIVE: DVD+/- DVD Burner
GRAPHICS CARD: Integrated
SOUND CARDS: Integrated
SPEAKERS: Dell™ A225 Stereo Speakers
KEYBOARD: Entry Level
MOUSE: Optical
FLOPPY/MEDIA DRIVES: None
MODEMS: No Modem
NETWORK: Integrated

€595 inc VAT & Delivery

The price above includes only 1 year collect & return parts & labour. To upgrade to a 3 year next business day on site service is €97 per computer (€1843 for the 19 computers). I'm not sure if €1843 is worth it as I can't really see teachers staying on the phone with dell for 30/45 mins trying to diagnose a problem before a technician is send out - they would rather someone just came and fixed the problem there and then.

They quoted me €108 for each Office 2003 Professional edition Academic Open License. The license will also work for Office 2007 when it is released early next year.

What do people think?

petes

Still no XP Pro!!

Also are speakers necessary.

Orion

It's for a school. Xp Home should be ok unless there's a domain there. But it sounds like just a peer-to-peer network with a possibility of a fileserver.

And why not just get OpenOffice or StarOffice. Free and similar enough to M$ Office. The kids won't know any different and you might just get some converts young

I agree with the warranty. You could easily have some local tech on call for less than that. He'll be available for software issues too which Dell won't help with. The only problem is parts failing after the first year will have to be bought but you'll probably still save them money even with the odd failure.

ob

sdonn_1 wrote:

Your quote is incl. VAT - im sure this is refundable for schools, at least in part?

Amazingly enough, it's not!

Orion

Oh btw. I checked out that tender. It appears it's actually individual VECs that have tenders not the Dept. Sorry about that.

Orion

Schools are VAT exempt iirc. This means they don't charge VAT on their services but they can't redeem VAT on purchases.

Zero Rate VAT means that you can redeem VAT.

petes

Macros42 wrote:

It's for a school. Xp Home should be ok unless there's a domain there. But it sounds like just a peer-to-peer network with a possibility of a fileserver.

And why not just get OpenOffice or StarOffice. Free and similar enough to M$ Office. The kids won't know any different and you might just get some converts young

I agree with the warranty. You could easily have some local tech on call for less than that. He'll be available for software issues too which Dell won't help with. The only problem is parts failing after the first year will have to be bought but you'll probably still save them money even with the odd failure.

I know pro is probably not necessary but still think for the amount they are paying they should get it.

weeder

i think you should get an active directory server too and then permissions etc etc can be set for everything at once

CuLT

Processor is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay overspec'd for usage by school children.

What I'm gathering from your posts (that others might not be) is that all of these 19 computers are going to be in different classrooms, hence the 20 printers. Is that correct? Basic printers are dirt cheap in any case.

Honestly, I think that's an absolutely criminally bad price for what you're getting, I'd have them knock off another hundred from each. You might get it if you hardball it, "I buy them all for x amount or I don't buy them at all".

axer

CuLT wrote:

Processor is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay overspec'd for usage by school children.

What I'm gathering from your posts (that others might not be) is that all of these 19 computers are going to be in different classrooms, hence the 20 printers. Is that correct? Basic printers are dirt cheap in any case.

Honestly, I think that's an absolutely criminally bad price for what you're getting, I'd have them knock off another hundred from each. You might get it if you hardball it, "I buy them all for x amount or I don't buy them at all".

Yes, I will probably change the processor down to a sempron alright and then play some hardball and get a thousand or two off the whole price.

Yes, the 19 computers will be in different rooms - sorry, I probably didnt make that clear earlier on. I will probably end up ordering 20 cheap inkjet printers alright because at least they will all be the same model of printer. I will see if mono laser printers will do though as they will cost €133 to buy but are only 3.3c a page to print out whereas an inkjet is about about 13c a page (in black & white or colour) - but am not sure

weeder wrote:

i think you should get an active directory server too and then permissions etc etc can be set for everything at once

I think the only server that would possibly be needed is a file server which would wouldn't take much to setup - not set up on xp home obviously though.

petes wrote:

I know pro is probably not necessary but still think for the amount they are paying they should get it.

The dell sales guy told me that to get pro would be an extra €79 ex VAT per machine.

Macros42 wrote:

Oh btw. I checked out that tender. It appears it's actually individual VECs that have tenders not the Dept. Sorry about that.

No worries, thanks anyway for checking.

Macros42 wrote:

It's for a school. Xp Home should be ok unless there's a domain there. But it sounds like just a peer-to-peer network with a possibility of a fileserver.

And why not just get OpenOffice or StarOffice. Free and similar enough to M$ Office. The kids won't know any different and you might just get some converts young

I agree with the warranty. You could easily have some local tech on call for less than that. He'll be available for software issues too which Dell won't help with. The only problem is parts failing after the first year will have to be bought but you'll probably still save them money even with the odd failure.

Yep, just a peer-to-peer network. I thought the same too about the service agreement/warranty.

petes wrote:

Also are speakers necessary.

Thanks for bringing that up. I started thinking then that headphones would be better than speakers so that kids can work away quietly without disrupting the whole class. I will have to talk to the teachers there first though.

ethernet

I'll probably be stoned for suggesting it, but I think Windows Server 2003 could be great for your requirements. Set up file and printer sharing for the school. There'll be lots of logs to keep you busy also. Set up an intranet and run Moodle [http://moodle.org, great software for educators] on it. I realise it is borderline overkill but it is a great product. Can you imagine the wasted bandwidth in not having a centralised Windows Update server? The hassle of running multiple instances of anti-virus scanners and, possibly, a firewall and anti-spyware software won't do anyone any good.

In school, they have just one server running Windows Server 2003. Staff have roaming profiles and documents are syncronised on log off. 'My Documents' is mapped as a network drive. IP addresses are assigned by DHCP. Domains are used also.

The client PCs were custom built by a small firm and were running Windows 98 until two years ago. They're now all running XP Pro quite comfortably. Logging in seems to be quite slow but there are over one-hundred PCs on the network [in domains]. PCs used by students have been locked down to the last -- no more Solitare or the like. Students 'stumbling' upon dodgy content have been pin pointed and punished accordingly.

Do try and go for XP Pro. Winge and moan to the DES and Dell. There's no reason for a school to fork out such outrageous prices for software and hardware aimed at the consumer market.

At least one laser would be a blessing. This mono laser seems quite reasonable for €300 [it has an ethernet port to save you buying a print server for a USB printer].

Regarding the anti-virus setup, perhaps a centralised app on the server would be in order. I have no experience of it but I think Norton offers a product that can scan the drives of client machines [open to correction on this].

Oracle

These are on offer at the moment in PC World: http://pcworld.ie/products.aspx?range_rid=116&image=EI_Systems You can usually upgrade the screen to 17" for an extra €50. You may not even need to 15" is probably fine for school use. I think the spec Dell supplied is way over the top and far too expensive. Do you need a DVD rewriter in every single PC? Do you need 20 printers? XP Home has File and Printer sharing capabilites. I'd go back to basics and reassess your hardware needs. While you're at it check out Edubuntu http://www.edubuntu.com/ It's a Linux implementation of PC's and a server using thin client terminals. It's exciting, innovative and I believe the future of computing, especially in the educational arena. There's more about the set up here: http://www.edubuntu.com/GettingStarted
Those PC's from PC World would make ideal thin client pc's then all you need is one to act as a server, or buy get one better specified computer to do the job. Here's what Edubuntu can do: http://www.edubuntu.com/UsingEdubuntu
With a bit of planning and "thinking outside the box" you could slash those hardware and software costs, both now and in the future. Good luck!!
P.S If you do go the Linux route you could ask for a refund for all those unwanted XP licenses, it has been known to succeed: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6144782.stm

Capt'n Midnight

weeder wrote:

i think you should get an active directory server too and then permissions etc etc can be set for everything at once

AD implies a windows server. Say goodbye to one PC to pay for the license. AD is not something for teachers to use, and you have one point of failure. What do yod do if the server keels over, apart from use the PC's Peer to Peer ??

If you want all the PC's to be the same then at the opposite end of the spectrum is http://www.edubuntu.org/ one decent PC and there rest don't need drives, no floppies, no CD, no hard drive, and that means the PSU does less work so the whole thing is quieter. Don't know what apps you need but OpenOffice means word/excel/powerpoint compatability

http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted

Configuring Diskless Thin Client Booting

In order for your workstations to boot over the network, you might have to do some additional hardware and software tweaking. This sections will walk you through it.

The minimum requirements for a thin client computer is a Pentium II with 48MB RAM and a 2MB display card. Recommended specifications is at least a Pentium II/300 with 64MB RAM and a 4MB display card. You will also need a method to boot over the network. Most newer motherboards (and network cards) have built-in PXE software that allows you to boot from the network. If it doesn't, you can create a network boot floppy or CD from http://rom-o-matic.net. Keep in mind that you need to enable PXE emulation when creating the boot media.

http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/linux_terminal_server

If you go windows then make sure you have all the anti spyware / windows defender setups
xp sp2 firewall setup is easy - setup one pc and do a export of the reg and then just re-import on the others

woolymammoth

If the network cards (and the system bios) support PXE booting, you don't even need to look at etherboot or rom-o-matic. A DHCP and TFTP server with the LTSP software means you won't even need floppy disk drives!

Implementing an LTSP server isn't hughly difficult. And to make thinks even easier again, check out k12ltsp.org. And its all free! If i were you, i'd ask them where they threw those PII's, and spend the cash on a kick ass server!

axer

ethernet wrote:

I'll probably be stoned for suggesting it, but I think Windows Server 2003 could be great for your requirements. Set up file and printer sharing for the school. There'll be lots of logs to keep you busy also. Set up an intranet and run Moodle [http://moodle.org, great software for educators] on it. I realise it is borderline overkill but it is a great product. Can you imagine the wasted bandwidth in not having a centralised Windows Update server? The hassle of running multiple instances of anti-virus scanners and, possibly, a firewall and anti-spyware software won't do anyone any good.

I really do think it would be more hassle to implement a windows 2003 server. What happens if the network goes down?

ethernet wrote:

Do try and go for XP Pro. Winge and moan to the DES and Dell. There's no reason for a school to fork out such outrageous prices for software and hardware aimed at the consumer market.

I doubt they would use the extra features of XP pro so I think it would be a waste of money paying the extra for it over home edition.

ethernet wrote:

At least one laser would be a blessing. This mono laser seems quite reasonable for €300 [it has an ethernet port to save you buying a print server for a USB printer].

1 colour laser would be a good idea alright.

Oracle wrote:

These are on offer at the moment in PC World: http://pcworld.ie/products.aspx?rang...age=EI_Systems You can usually upgrade the screen to 17" for an extra €50. You may not even need to 15" is probably fine for school use. I think the spec Dell supplied is way over the top and far too expensive.

The school has a bit of fundraising money to spend on the computers but the principal is not keen on any of this at all. After a bit of convincing from me that their 233mhz gateway 2000's were a bit old she agreed to throw them out. The teachers then had to try to convince her that they need new computers and broadband in the classrooms even though they had gotten a grant for the network. It could be a long time before they purchase computers again so I think there is no point going too low with the spec either.

Oracle wrote:

Do you need a DVD rewriter in every single PC?

Nope, just a CDRW I'd say. I will see if that saves any money. The sales guy said that he could not lower it to a DVDRW with the package.

Oracle wrote:

Do you need 20 printers?

Yes or at least close to that. Some of the offices may be able to use a networked laser but for the classrooms each computer needs a printer as there will be only one computer per classroom.

Unfortunately I neither know enough nor have the time to implement a linux environment. Plus I will not be around from February to keep things going when problems occur. So I think any form of linux implementation is out the window as it would cost them more to keep it running.

I want to keep the setup as simple as possible so that it will not cost them a fortune to keep things running. A simple clone of the harddrives should keep things going so that if things do go wrong it might be just better and cheaper to re image the computer.

Again, thanks for all the replies. Any more suggestions/advice is much appreciated.

axer

Ok,

How about I push for €500 each with this spec:

PROCESSOR: AMD Sempron 3400
OPERATING SYSTEM: XP Home
SUPPORT SERVICES: Collect & Return, 1 Year Service only
MONITOR: 17" Value Flat Panel (E177FP)
MEMORY: 512MB Dual Channel DDR2 533MHz [2x256] Memory
HARD DRIVE: 80GB
OPTICAL DRIVE: CDRW/DVD Combo
GRAPHICS CARD: Integrated
SOUND CARDS: Integrated
SPEAKERS: No Speakers
KEYBOARD: Entry Level
MOUSE: Optical
FLOPPY/MEDIA DRIVES: None
MODEMS: No Modem
NETWORK: Integrated

€500 inc VAT & Delivery

Or is €500 still too high to be paying for this spec?

MS Office 2003 Pro installed on each machine.

Then running NOD32, windows firewall and Microsoft Defender on each of the computers for protection. There is a firewall built in to the Cisco router provided by the department of education already aswell anyway.

Then 1 or 2 128mb flash pen drives per classroom.

Then, a few CANON - Pixma iP1300 printers or a few HP OfficeJet 5610 Multifunction printers or a few mono HP LaserJet 1018 printers and 2 HP Colour LaserJet 1600 printer (the school is split into two parts by a street).

3/4 USB Floppy Drives around the place.

And the possibility of a file server which I don't think is really necessary at all.

Capt'n Midnight

Office Pro for a national school
What will the little darlings be doing ?

I've been using openoffice instead of microsoft office for years. Base is not a replacement for Access, yet. If you want to generate web pages openoffice produces much cleaner code form microsoft office docs than office does.
Oh yeah you also get foreign langague dictioneries and interfaces, free no need to purchase a separate langague pack.

If it's a Irish school you can get a interface pack for windows XP as gaeilge.

DublinEvents

Have a look at BeTwin from http://www.thinsoftinc.com. This software allows a single PC to be shared by almost 8 people! The other 7 people only need a monitor and USB keyboards and mice. And since it works with Windows XP, you don't have to worry about teaching Linux to the children.

thegoth

Hi,

PM me me. I can give you details of a company that can do a similar deal, but with a 3 year onsite warranty. I dont work for them. I am in the IT business and buy all my P.C's from them.

Also, why not get just one or two printers and network them ?

axer

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Office Pro for a national school
What will the little darlings be doing ?

I have asked Dell for a teacher and student version but they told me that it is cheaper to get an academic open license for Office 2003 pro - €108.10 inc vat. Anyone know of a cheaper license?

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

I've been using openoffice instead of microsoft office for years. Base is not a replacement for Access, yet. If you want to generate web pages openoffice produces much cleaner code form microsoft office docs than office does.
Oh yeah you also get foreign langague dictioneries and interfaces, free no need to purchase a separate langague pack.

Its just there are a lot of young teachers in the school - which is good but they would have used word and powerpoint in college and they won't like the idea of changing to open office - even if it is free because they want as hassle free as possible.

DublinEvents wrote:

Have a look at BeTwin from http://www.thinsoftinc.com. This software allows a single PC to be shared by almost 8 people! The other 7 people only need a monitor and USB keyboards and mice. And since it works with Windows XP, you don't have to worry about teaching Linux to the children.

I have actually used WinConnectServer XP before for someone who wanted to remote into his machine in the office and use it while someone in the office used it aswell. It works grand but it can be very hard on resources even with two people using the machine.

thegoth wrote:

PM me me. I can give you details of a company that can do a similar deal, but with a 3 year onsite warranty. I dont work for them. I am in the IT business and buy all my P.C's from them.

PM sent

thegoth wrote:

Also, why not get just one or two printers and network them ?

As I said earlier - the printers are for about 17 different classrooms. They cant have students walking around the school unsupervised to pick up print outs. It would probably be ok for the principal's, vice principal's and secretary's offices but for classrooms its not an option I see.

Found out from NOD32 that educational licenses for one year are €5.45 each. Will probably go with them with a 3 year license on each machine.

Cuddlesworth

Getting separate printers for the pc if the school is networked is a very bad idea. Its going to cost much, much more in the long term and with kids handling 20 cheap plastic printers they wont last any amount of time. Network printers are built to last with minimal maintenance.

colm_c

If you're going to get that many printers - go for some very cheap ones from dell:

http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/print_725?c=ie&cs=iebsdt1&l=en&s=bsd

13 euros for a printer - at that price you could afford to buy enough for classrooms, and have enough cash left over to buy a 1 or 2 midranged mono laser printers.

axer

krazy_8s wrote:

Getting separate printers for the pc if the school is networked is a very bad idea. Its going to cost much, much more in the long term and with kids handling 20 cheap plastic printers they wont last any amount of time. Network printers are built to last with minimal maintenance.

How will the kids pick up the print outs if the printers are networked and in a central location? I think ideally a few networked printers in central locations would be more efficient and cost effective but I dont think it is practical to do so though in a primary school that has 1 computer dotted in classrooms all around the school.

axer

colm_c wrote:

If you're going to get that many printers - go for some very cheap ones from dell:

http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/print_725?c=ie&cs=iebsdt1&l=en&s=bsd

13 euros for a printer - at that price you could afford to buy enough for classrooms, and have enough cash left over to buy a 1 or 2 midranged mono laser printers.

Would I be better off buying a printer for €50/€60/€70 that has seperate ink cartridges for colours though? than the above €13 printer whereby all the colours are joined and where the ink must be bought from dell?

Sponge Bob

Macros42 wrote:

Also M$ do extremely good terms on their software for schools if you contact them directly.

MS only do these deals direct with a school through Micromail in Cork (and yes they are good , Office 2003 pro for €80). School must contact micromail direct about it.

Those PCs are way too high, Dell have a special edumacation section in Bray who will do a better deal, no more than €500 with small TFT and Media Centre XP and buy 2 dell colour lasers like the 3115n instead of 20 inkjets

if you MUST go inkjet try a canon (original ink is cheap) or an epson (clone ink is cheap) ONLY. HP and Lexmark are dire to run.

axer

Sponge Bob wrote:

MS only do these deals direct with a school through Micromail in Cork (and yes they are good , Office 2003 pro for €80). School must contact micromail direct about it.

Thanks for that.

Sponge Bob wrote:

Those PCs are way too high, Dell have a special edumacation section in Bray who will do a better deal, no more than €500 with small TFT and Media Centre XP and buy 2 dell colour lasers like the 3115n instead of 20 inkjets

I was on to the education section of Dell. I chose a really low spec dimension. The guy there told me that they cant sell more than 5 of these as they are home systems. He said the standard machine (optiplex) they offer to schools is 800 euro. I asked him why would I pay an extra 300 euro for a machine when I dont need to. He created a new machine for 600 euro as an optiplex (the specs I posted earlier). I requesting a new price with the lower spec as is posted earlier to get an optiplex for €500 with a 17" flat screen. Not sure if I will get it for that price yet though.

Sponge Bob wrote:

if you MUST go inkjet try a canon (original ink is cheap) or an epson (clone ink is cheap) ONLY. HP and Lexmark are dire to run.

Yes, I will probably go with a canon. The Canon Pixma iP1300 seems to have cyan, magenta and yellow as one single cartridge. Anyone know the cheapest printer that uses seperate ink cartridges for the colours? Epson or Canon.

Sponge Bob

The school must buy 1 copy of media (say 1 x windows mce and/or 1 x office 2007 pro edu edition)

remember kids do not use ms access so small business is cool and open office is free and does the same thing as office small businesss and then 20 licences on top of that media at €50 - €80 each .

The disk is typically €30-50 to buy.

Will dell flog you h/w only with no os installed ???

FINALLY, I got a job lot of Aldi pcs for my kids school , simply order 20 of them from the store manager the day they are on special and they show up in 2 -3 weeks .They always have slots for sd chips and tv out and all the funky connectors you need and you can get one with loads of software in a good bundle for about €450-€500 and then get the monitors elsewhere or even in aldi as well.

Worth considering because they are good digital video editing systems with all the connectors/cards and software for the kids but you must wait for the special. one next week but itmay be a bit pricier.

http://www.aldi.ie/

solarram

Hi all,
Try to buy as much quality as possible. Use AMD instead of Celeron. 512 Ram is good. HDD size will make very little difference in price. Get the DVDRW instead, useful in the years to come for doing large graphic backups, extra cost is small. Do not use floppy drives, use 128 mb usb disks. Floppy disk is gone, do not use them. Schools use a secure server so there is little or no chance of nasty sites. You still should use a good Antivirus software that does not hinder the performance of the pc. I find Bullgurad the best and I have tested and tried all, over the last 15 years. A bullguard license will cover 3 pc’s. AVG is not secure. I would recommend one laser printer and 2 epson inkjets, all networked of course. Finally Buy from a company, doesn’t have to be a big international company, that will give a good back up service even if the machines cost a little extra, it will be well worth it over the coming years.
As someone who has setup a lot of schools, I find if you buy right at the start you should have an enjoyable time using the pc's. So many schools have nightmares because they went for the cheap.
Best of luck!!

axer

A little change of info...

It turns out that I can get 19 licences for Office 2003 and 19 licences for XP Pro for €95 plus VAT in total as an annual charge. This also includes free upgrade to Vista and Office 2007. Thanks a million Sponge Bob for the info on Micromail.

That being the case, should I up the specs of the Machine a little so that they will all be capable of running Vista smoothly? i.e. Minimum 1GB RAM and sticking with the 64bit Athlons?

Next step is to talk to Dell about either not including an OS or not charging for the License as the school will have their own License for each machine already. Have I any chance of succeeding? If yes, how much should I expect/demand?

Thanks for everyone's advice so far.

colm_c

Dell have a new range of Optiplexes that have no OS installed called N-series if I remember correctly...