Irish strongest team

thebaz

As Ireland will probably play a weakened team against Pacific Islands , here would be my starting 15 for 6 nations .
Full back would be the toughest choice , between , Fitzgerald/ Dempsey / Murphy , and since its a tough call i'll go for the unknown and future .

15 Fitzgerald
14 Horgan
13 O'Driscoll
12 Darcy
11 Trimball
10 O'Gara
9 Boss
1. Young
2 Flannery
3 Hayes
4 O'Callaghan
5 O'Connell
6 Best
8 Leamy
7 Wallace

jank

thebaz wrote:

As Ireland will probably play a weakened team against Pacific Islands , here would be my starting 15 for 6 nations .
Full back would be the toughest choice , between , Fitzgerald/ Dempsey / Murphy , and since its a tough call i'll go for the unknown and future .

15 Fitzgerald
14 Horgan
13 O'Driscoll
12 Darcy
11 Trimball
10 O'Gara
9 Boss
1. Young
2 Flannery
3 Hayes
4 O'Callaghan
5 O'Connell
6 Best
8 Leamy
7 Wallace

Id go for Murphy at full back, Stringer at scrum half and Horan at Prop.
Boss offers something different alright but choose the wrong option many times and the backline missed those quick stringer passes.

damnyanks

Havent seen dempsey do anything from for ireland in a long time. He'd be my 15.

Skitbra

thebaz wrote:

As Ireland will probably play a weakened team against Pacific Islands , here would be my starting 15 for 6 nations .
Full back would be the toughest choice , between , Fitzgerald/ Dempsey / Murphy , and since its a tough call i'll go for the unknown and future .

15 Fitzgerald
14 Horgan
13 O'Driscoll
12 Darcy
11 Trimball
10 O'Gara
9 Boss
1. Young
2 Flannery
3 Hayes
4 O'Callaghan
5 O'Connell
6 Best
8 Leamy
7 Wallace

That's laughable. Why would you put Fitzy in Ireland's strongest 15? Ridiculous.
I assume you're from Blackrock.
And it's Trimble. He's not from D4 so I suppose I can understand.

Crash

Skitbra be civil or be banned. You can make your point without just being insulting.

As for mine, with Murphy really fighting for his jersey like he was yesterday I'd take him at 15. Boss i'll give another game in the green before deciding either way, but I thought that while his naivety showed a tiny bit, he knew what he did wrong by the time the prematch interview rolled around and he seems like he has a good head on him, enough to learn from his mistakes.

as for young, I'd bring him in depending on how Horans doing at the time - if he's off his game then yeah, but otherwise i'd keep horan on the team.

then on the bench it'd be Rory Best, Young, Hickie, Stringer/Boss depending, Mal O'Kelly, Dempsey, Easterby.

thebaz

Skitbra wrote:

That's laughable. Why would you put Fitzy in Ireland's strongest 15? Ridiculous.
I assume you're from Blackrock.
And it's Trimble. He's not from D4 so I suppose I can understand.

Maybe you should assume nothing -- Fitzgerald was outstanding against Australia A - and i stated it was a tight call and i went for a gamble -- i wish i did live in D4 , not sure if it would help my spelling !

daveirl

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RuggieBear

daveirl wrote:

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Do you really think so...he's got real potential and is awesome going forward but he a defensive light weight at the moment. (i didn't see the A game)

jank

Fitzgerald

Is this the lad that has yet to finish his leaving cert that hook and pope have mentioned a few times?

mikedragon32

OP, it's a fine XV, but I don't get why in a strongest team selection you need to go for the unknown when you've two highly experienced FBs. Surely the definition of a strongest 15 is to have THE BEST player at each position, not someone who might be okay.

Fitz out in favour of Dempsey. Crash, I appreciate Murphy had a good game yesterday, but I can't for the life of me understand how he keeps getting picked. He plays well in a Leicester shirt, but once he puts on the green of Ireland he's rarely anything better than ordinary, but that's just my opinion!

What about the bench?

Amazotheamazing

Think strongest 18 or so players are known (with Young/Horan, Best/Flannery, Dempsey/Murphy fighting for a start with the other on the bench) but it's after that that things get interesting. While Boss was good yesterday, he is not a fast passer and EOS will stick with Stringer for that.

But after that, who's backup 2nd row, who's back up outhalf, flanker?
I would have picked MOD ahead of Mal but neither are in great form, Easterby, Ferris, Gleeson, O'Connor, Heaslip, Jennings, who knows? outhalf, Wallace can play centre and fullback too, Staunton was good against Aus A so who gets the nod?

daveirl

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Danger_Dave

To have fitzgerald in the 15 for the 6 nations is a bit misguided, the 22 mabye, at least the squad. but you cant rush guys into matches like that. It can destroy confidence espically if there dropped after a bad game. A.K.A Matt Tait from england took him along time to get over that match agaisnt wales. Also you cant really think fitzgerald will get the nod at fullback in the 6 nations. when he cant get the nod ahead of Dempsey at leinster.

Dempsey is playing well for leinster and in my opinion for ireland, he played great for ireland agaisnt SA. Boss i dont think he should start but if things in a match are going wrong, sub stringer. and at least for 15mins if not 20-25mins. Boss is great to change a match but stringer is top quality in passing and great at making the right calls from passing ,to forwards , to backs. Rest of the squad at the moment picks itself.

Hopefuly Ferris, Heaslip play nex sunday, boss again and mabye give fitzgeralda run for some period of the match

jackbhoy

What really p!sses me off about these Ireland strongest teams debate is that it always seems to turn into a leinster/munster slagging match. I am a season ticket holder at Leinster but when I go to, or even talk about the ireland rugby team i dont care where they come from. There were so many fools at the match yesterday who would only cheer respective provinces players and would tut and abuse other players when they made a mistake. Its about time we all copped the fcuk on and grow up about it, its just getting boring.

Re Fitzgerald, this world cup might be a little too soon for him, but he really does look like a class player and plays like he's been around for years.

RuggieBear

jackbhoy wrote:

What really p!sses me off about these Ireland strongest teams debate is that it always seems to turn into a leinster/munster slagging match. I am a season ticket holder at Leinster but when I go to, or even talk about the ireland rugby team i dont care where they come from. There were so many fools at the match yesterday who would only cheer respective provinces players and would tut and abuse other players when they made a mistake. Its about time we all copped the fcuk on and grow up about it, its just getting boring.

Re Fitzgerald, this world cup might be a little too soon for him, but he really does look like a class player and plays like he's been around for years.

Ye what now? where is the slagging match here mon ami?

jackbhoy

Skitbra wrote:

That's laughable. Why would you put Fitzy in Ireland's strongest 15? Ridiculous.
I assume you're from Blackrock.
And it's Trimble. He's not from D4 so I suppose I can understand.

.....for example


It was a general point about how these "debates" degenerate into crapdom.....

RuggieBear

and the crash said what....next post?


(besides that's just more of the Leinster schools rivalry ****e than provincial)


We do try our best to keep here from becoming another planetrugby, munsterfans, leinsterfans, etc, general flamefest...so i'd appreciate rational criticism and not compare our "debates" with others sites as we try to mod hard but fair from preventing that happening here.

daveirl

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zAbbo

Did anyone watch the Scotland game, these guys are dangerous, last thing we need is throwing in players who aren't at this level yet. What would be gained from Luke Fitz getting lined up, or risking Jerry at hooker?

I'd like to see Boss and Wallace start, and Ferris in there.

The PI are a team of tanks, and have two of the best back line players around, Caucau (when he bothers) and Fa'atau

thebaz

Maybe Fitzgerald won't be ready for the 6 nations , but other countries blood in players early, Australia in particluar , O'Driscoll made his debut at 20 , and was class -- and if Fitzgerald can shine at A level , why not give him a chance at full level , especially when full back position is one of the few open spots on the team.

daveirl

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Linford

Skitbra wrote:

That's laughable. Why would you put Fitzy in Ireland's strongest 15? Ridiculous.
I assume you're from Blackrock.
And it's Trimble. He's not from D4 so I suppose I can understand.

Don't think any of the players in the Irish set up are from D4!

Linford

jackbhoy wrote:

What really p!sses me off about these Ireland strongest teams debate is that it always seems to turn into a leinster/munster slagging match. I am a season ticket holder at Leinster but when I go to, or even talk about the ireland rugby team i dont care where they come from. There were so many fools at the match yesterday who would only cheer respective provinces players and would tut and abuse other players when they made a mistake. Its about time we all copped the fcuk on and grow up about it, its just getting boring.

Re Fitzgerald, this world cup might be a little too soon for him, but he really does look like a class player and plays like he's been around for years.

I think for the first time in ages there are very few positions where Leinster and Munster players are battling for position. Only posistion where this could potentially arise is at number 7, where I think Gleeson should be given a chance ahead of Wallace.

Linford

thebaz wrote:

As Ireland will probably play a weakened team against Pacific Islands , here would be my starting 15 for 6 nations .
Full back would be the toughest choice , between , Fitzgerald/ Dempsey / Murphy , and since its a tough call i'll go for the unknown and future .

15 Fitzgerald
14 Horgan
13 O'Driscoll
12 Darcy
11 Trimball
10 O'Gara
9 Boss
1. Young
2 Flannery
3 Hayes
4 O'Callaghan
5 O'Connell
6 Best
8 Leamy
7 Wallace

Difficult to see how you have gone for an unproven player at senior level in Fitzgerald verses Dempsey.

I would have Hickie in for Trimble. Not for my bias as a Leinster fan, but because I believe every rugby team needs an out and out winger with speed. Trimble is a great player, but he is a converted centre, and I think we already have that on the other wing in Shane Horgan.

I think Gleeson should be given a look in also.

obrien_pa

My choices for the team against the pacific islanders are based on a) giving some new blood a chance and b) ensuring none of the key positions in the team are weakened by injury. This obviously has to be done in the context of putting out a competitive team that will keep Ireland's winning streak going..

15 Murphy (on the basis that we know that Dempsey is no.1 choice for key matches and Fitzgerald is still too young and not physically mature at this stage.)
14 Horgan
13 Darcy
12 Trimble
11 Hickie
10 Wallace (We can't afford to have an injured ROG!)
9 Boss (Give him another start to see his progress at SH. I think he's shown a lot of promise and will be a serious back-up for Stringer in the 6n/RWC)
1. Best
2 Best (I was really impressed by his dart throwing in difficult conditions last w/end)
3 Young (Hayes is another guy that we can't afford to lose to injury, and Young is more comfortable on this side of the scrum)
4 O'Callaghan
5 McCullough
6 Best
8 Heaslip
7 Gleeson

There's some interesting choices there, I know. But there's a lot of fairly settled partnerships included from provincial level (half-backs and front-row from ulster, back row from Leinster - with the addition of the Beast). I'd also love to see Trimble develop into a serious contender for the centre on the Ireland team.

Sangre

15 Dempsey
14 Horgan
13 Darcy
12 O Driscoll
11 Trimble
10 O Gara
9 Stringer
1 Horan
2 Flannery
3 Hayes
4 O Connell
5 O Callaghan
6 Best
7 Wallace
8 Leamy

Subs;
R Best, Young, O'Kelly, Gleeson, Boss, Murphy, Humphreys ( )

Of course, by subs I mean subs who are picked with the intention of coming on around 70 minute mark to actually play and not just be injury replacement.

PhoenixRising

I would like to see Luke Fitz get a run this Sunday. Eddie really needs to start taking a few risks and blood some of our young and up and coming players. We gain nothing at all from seeing the likes of Easterby or Dempsey thrown on for 5 mins at the end of a game. We know what these players can do, lets give some serious game time to some of the young players and let's see how they do. The Pacific Islands is as good a chance as we're going to get in terms of a friendly against one of the weaker teams. The 6N's is no time for throwing uncapped players in to the cauldron, and we all know Eddie wouldn't do it anyway. Then we are into the World Cup, having not developed any new players. I want to see at least 7 or 8 changes for the PI game.

Come on Eddie, throw in Fitzgerald, Ferris, Heaslip, and Wallace...

pred racer

obrien_pa wrote:

My choices for the team against the pacific islanders are based on a) giving some new blood a chance and b) ensuring none of the key positions in the team are weakened by injury. This obviously has to be done in the context of putting out a competitive team that will keep Ireland's winning streak going..

15 Murphy (on the basis that we know that Dempsey is no.1 choice for key matches and Fitzgerald is still too young and not physically mature at this stage.)
14 Horgan
13 Darcy
12 Trimble
11 Hickie
10 Wallace (We can't afford to have an injured ROG!)
9 Boss (Give him another start to see his progress at SH. I think he's shown a lot of promise and will be a serious back-up for Stringer in the 6n/RWC)
1. Best
2 Best (I was really impressed by his dart throwing in difficult conditions last w/end)
3 Young (Hayes is another guy that we can't afford to lose to injury, and Young is more comfortable on this side of the scrum)
4 O'Callaghan
5 McCullough
6 Best
8 Heaslip
7 Gleeson

There's some interesting choices there, I know. But there's a lot of fairly settled partnerships included from provincial level (half-backs and front-row from ulster, back row from Leinster - with the addition of the Beast). I'd also love to see Trimble develop into a serious contender for the centre on the Ireland team.

Id really like to see this team in action, it might show up a surprise or two, and in the front row we need at least 6 players (2 entire front rows) just in case.

davyjose

thebaz wrote:

Maybe you should assume nothing -- Fitzgerald was outstanding against Australia A - and i stated it was a tight call and i went for a gamble -- i wish i did live in D4 , not sure if it would help my spelling !

Fitz has started 8 games for Leinster, until tomorrow 0 for Ireland. Yes, he will one day play for Ireland regularly, but not yet. We are 3rd ranked side in the world, we are looking towards a grand slam, we do NOT need to gamble. Personally I'd play Dempsey, over the last 18 months he has shown far better form than Murphy, who's display in last years 6N possibly cost us it.

davyjose

I don't understand this idea of playing people out of position. Sangre, how can you play O'Driscoll as an Inside centre when he is the best OC in the world.
I'm also concerned that Hickie's place in the starting team has been dismissed. Trimble is awesome, but so is Hickie. I think EOS can be a little too rigid in his team selection, and these two both need game time for Ireland.

davyjose

daveirl wrote:

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Heaslip has GOT to be considered for the World Cup. We need to bring in new players or else in 3 or 4 years time we'll be starting from scratch again. And Heaslip has without a DOUBT the ability to become one of the best 8's in the world.

daveirl

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daveirl

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Inquitus

respectfully to all, the best XV and the one we should aim to start in the 6N and laterly the World Cup has to be

1. Horan
2. Flannery
3. Hayes
4. O'Connell
5. O'Callaghan
6. Best
7. Wallace
8. Leamy
9. Stringer
10. O'Gara
11. Trimble/Hickie (unsure here, Trimble cuts some great lines, but Hickie while having lost a yard of pace is still a devastating finisher)
12. O'Driscoll
13. D'Arcy
14. Horgan
15. Dempsey/Murphy (again unsure here, was never a Dempsey fan but over the last 2 seasons his game has really stepped up a level, and Murphy never seems to deliver in the green Jersey)

Diamondmaker

Inquitus wrote:

respectfully to all, the best XV and the one we should aim to start in the 6N and laterly the World Cup has to be

1. Horan
2. Flannery
3. Hayes
4. O'Connell
5. O'Callaghan
6. Best
7. Wallace
8. Leamy
9. Stringer
10. O'Gara
11. Trimble/Hickie (unsure here, Trimble cuts some great lines, but Hickie while having lost a yard of pace is still a devastating finisher)
12. O'Driscoll
13. D'Arcy
14. Horgan
15. Dempsey/Murphy (again unsure here, was never a Dempsey fan but over the last 2 seasons his game has really stepped up a level, and Murphy never seems to deliver in the green Jersey)

With due respect to you, your strongest team carries 3 different permutations. How can what you have listed be so authoritively our best team?;)
I 100% agree with your team above. I would keep the 2 leinster guys in over Murph and Trimble purely becasue.....

If there is almot nothing between the 2 pairs go with the pairning that will fit into the existing backline the best: with the most innate, natural and experienced link to each othere as a well familiarised unit..... That would obviously be the Leinster back line. If it aint broke why fix it? Would Trimble displace Hickie at wing at Leinster ( this season, right now... )? or Murphy Girv?

zAbbo

I'd second that team, and would have Hickie and Girv starting to have an all Leinster backline.

No harm having Trimble covering Centre/Wing, and Murphy at FB/Wing if needed. How much weight will be put on todays performance I'm not sure.

davyjose

daveirl wrote:

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Because we have one of the strongest backlines in World rugby. there is a big difference between replacing Tindall with Tait, than Dempsey/Murphy/Horgan/Hickie/Trimble with Fitzgerald. But that is not to say that he shouldn't be brought in as a contender, and given game-time (just not in our strongest XV), which leads me back to Heaslip, whom I think your wrong about by the way. I've seen him many times for Leinster, and many times has been our man of the Match. would i replace Leamy with him? No, not now. Would I give him game-time? Yes.

daveirl

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davyjose

daveirl wrote:

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Personally I would put Hickie in ahead of Trimble, no questions asked. But trimble has a lot more experience than Fitzgerald at both International level AND provincial. But I DO agree with you - he should be there or thereabouts - just not in our starting XV just yet.

True enough about Heaslip, but his style offers the backline a much more expansive style. Which certainly suits Leinster. I think a lot of Leinster fans would opt for him ahead of Leamy for their club given the option.

Diamondmaker

dave you are way off here...........

Trimble is established at this stage and has some big game time experience under his belt. He has scored great tries at top level and has proven himself.
He is older and wiser than Luke. 10 caps and 5 tries...some record!! Some of those games were serious ones too.

Trimble is so established that he has displaced Disco Denis from the wing berth.

Luke is nowhere near ( at this point in time ) the experience level required to be dispalcing anyone of that group apart from emergency scenarios. He is not proven at international level. As much potential as was on display out there on Sat he struggled with the physicality.

this is why Trimble is OK but not yet fitzgerald.

I also have to go with Davy on JH too. He suits the Leinmster game as Leamy does the Munster. Leamy however is more experienced and is more suited to Ireland also, not least for experience.
JH will be competing for that spot and does offer a different and effective option from Lemaey.
Really is great we can have these discussions though isnt it? Luke or Trimble or Hickie. heaslip Leamy easteby, Best etc etc etc. Bring it on!!

davyjose

Ha ha, yeah Diamond - I can't wait for the 6 Nations. A far cry from this time last year.

Erin Go Brath

Irelands best XV:

15 Dempsey
14 Horgan
13 O Driscoll
12 D'arcy
11 Trimble
10 O Gara
9 Stringer
8 Leamy
7 Wallace
6 Best
5 O Callaghan
4 O Connell
3 Hayes
2 Flannery
1 Horan


This is probably the team to go for. With Neil Best elevating himself above Easterby during the Autumn internationals. The very encouraging thing apart from beating 3 S. Hemisphere teams is the emergence of quality backup in Young, Boss, Wallace, Fitzgerald, Heaslip, Ferris, R. Best. We also have quality like Murphy, Hickie, O Kelly, Easterby, Sheahan, M. O Driscoll to be able to call on if needed.

Things are indeed looking good. We have every reason to be bullish about our chances of a long awaited Grand Slam, esp with England and France at home this year. Roll on the 6N's, and the WC. Throw your triple crown dvds in the dustbin, bigger and better prizes await in 2007!!!!!!!

thebaz

Erin Go Brath wrote:

Irelands best XV:

15 Dempsey
14 Horgan
13 O Driscoll
12 D'arcy
11 Trimble
10 O Gara
9 Stringer
8 Leamy
7 Wallace
6 Best
5 O Callaghan
4 O Connell
3 Hayes
2 Flannery
1 Horan


This is probably the team to go for. With Neil Best elevating himself above Easterby during the Autumn internationals. The very encouraging thing apart from beating 3 S. Hemisphere teams is the emergence of quality backup in Young, Boss, Wallace, Fitzgerald, Heaslip, Ferris, R. Best. We also have quality like Murphy, Hickie, O Kelly, Easterby, Sheahan, M. O Driscoll to be able to call on if needed.

Things are indeed looking good. We have every reason to be bullish about our chances of a long awaited Grand Slam, esp with England and France at home this year. Roll on the 6N's, and the WC. Throw your triple crown dvds in the dustbin, bigger and better prizes await in 2007!!!!!!!

Boss for me has overtaken Stringer -- if Stringers was bigger, maybe , but Boss gives us an extra dimension -- and Stringer has been the best Irish scrum half i can remeber -- if only he was 2 stone heavier and 4 inches taller .. he certainly has amazing bottle and heart !

MarVeL

Interesting article here:

Were O'Sullivan picking a full strength 15 to take on the Welsh on Saturday next it would read; Girvan Dempsey; Shane Horgan, Brian O'Driscoll, Gordon D'Arcy, Andrew Trimble; Ronan O'Gara, Peter Stringer; Marcus Horan, Jerry Flannery, John Hayes; Donncha O'Callaghan, Paul O'Connell; Neil Best, David Wallace and Denis Leamy.

But the real bonus for O'Sullivan, and for his assistant Niall O'Donovan, has been in the form and potential shown by the reserves. In all, 26 different players started in the three games. We may not be in the All Black league but a shadow 15 comprising Geordan Murphy; Tommy Bowe, Barry Murphy, Luke Fitzgerald, Denis Hickie; Paddy Wallace, Isaac Boss; Bryan Young, Rory Best, Simon Best; Matt McCullough, Mal O'Kelly, Simon Easterby, Stephen Ferris and Jamie Heaslip would take some shifting.

It does look an interesting 2nd xv alright although I might swap Hickie for Trimble

accensi0n

MarVeL wrote:

Interesting article here:



It does look an interesting 2nd xv alright although I might swap Hickie for Trimble

that link doesn't work.

zAbbo

http://www.unison.ie/sportsdesk/stories.php3?ca=15&si=1732019

MarVeL

Sorry accension and thanks zabbo

davyjose

You have to register, for money. I have a rule: unless they have women who are naked and hot, i try to avoid paying for websites!

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Jilm

The bugmenot firefox extension does the trick as well if you can't be bothered registering.

Goodluck2me

wasnt jamie Heaslip runner up in the U21 world player of the year and only lost it to the NZ no8 that year who beat them in the final, who was in fact playing Super 12 at the time. hell be a class act int he future, these guys arent going to get experience from sitting on the bench, you cant pick someone (pre-world cup) on the basis of experience ( for matches rather than best XV) as otherwise wed never have a change or option.

Also with regards to Trimble being a converted centre, i think youll find BOD was a converted Out half and isnt doing such a bad job at it.