I am an Irish Citizen like you........

I_am_Irish

I am an Irish Citizen like you, but with no rights.
letter from parents of Irish Citizen Child.

Hi Everyone,

I am a qualified professional doctor with more than 5 years experience, and was doing studies (MRCP) in Britain (N.Ireland), and my husband is also IT professional with more then 7 years experience and worked in different countries, was living with me in Britain. We are Non-European.

My baby born in Belfast in Nov' 2004, and according to law, she got Irish Passport. In March 2005, according to law, we came here to apply residency in Republic of Ireland. and submit our applicaton with all our original educational documents including original passports. We suppose to get reply from Dept. of Juscitce within 6 weeks, but they replied after 11 months and refused our application, with a reason that, we were not residing in Republic of Ireland since our baby born.

We appealed against refusal and never receive any acknowledgement, we never claim asylum or any benefit in anywhere in europe or elsewhere including Ireland, and also did not claim any state benefits for first 14 months in R.O.Ireland, and did all expenses from our own, it was very difficult but we spent our all savings, and borrowed heavy loan from family and friends, then after 14 months we applied for benefit, and now getting some of them.

We are and we were never interested to take benefits and that is why we were doing our all expenses for 14 months, just to show our intention to Dept. of Justice, and also we don't like benefits as we both, husband and wife are highly qualified and can get much better amount from our jobs, if we have a permission of work, which we don't have now.

Dept. of Justice, is not replying, our solicitor is not replying because we are unable to pay his fees now, we can be a high tax payer, and want to do a work, but Dept. of Justice is forcing us to take benefit, I assume this is crime what they are doing with us. we are wasting our life, instead of getting more experience, loosing everyday. living in a house with more then 22 people.

We are suffering, our Irish and European Citizen Child is suffering very badly, we can provide better life and future to our daughter but unable to do anything, only because of Dept. of Justice.

Also please note the following:

1. I achieved Gold Medal with a highest marks during my Medical Education in a country, from 70% of Doctors are working here. Irish Medical Council already approved my Gold Medal and qualifications.

2. I have no difficulty to go anywhere in the world, as Australian and Canadian Immigration Firms also approved that we are fully eligeble for immigration in these country, but our passports and original certificates are also with Dept. of Justice and we can not move or unable to do anything else.

3. My child is an Irish Citizen and holding Irish European Passport, why she don't deserve any Irish or EU rights.

4. We never applied any asylem anywhere in this world and including Ireland. We were legal in Britain.

5. According to European and Irish Law we are legal here, and also according to EU Law can move with our EU citizen child and apply for residency anywhere in EU.

6. Ireland is a memeber state of EU and has to respect EU Laws.

7. Ireland is bound to respect his own Citizen and their Dependent and Spouse Rights (my child is a Irish Citizen).

8. We are still waiting for a child benefit and medical, since more then one year.

9. I also did clinical attachment (unpaid, as I dont have permission of work) in a hospital. My qualifications are also acceptable here.

10. I am doing TRAS, and having a registration no. from Irish Medical Council, they also recongnized my qualifications.

11. We tried to get work permit, but how about the rights, and getting work permit is also not easy. who will appoint people like us, who dont have any status yet, generally people think that we are illegal here.

12. CAN YOU LIVE, without home, work, medical, and all other rights you deserve.

13. If we are illegal here, then please don't fight for fifty thousand illegal Irish People who are living in U.S, Please stop taking about the rights of Northern Ireland. Please forget about your rights in EU and elsewhere.

14. I know, we all knows, if I will burn my Educational Certificates in Dublin City Centre, and will protest against this Crime and will go for hunger strike, then everything will be provided within couple of hours.

15. Don't forget Dept. of Justice was commited to reply within 6 weeks and also can not hold our passport for 2 years.


Please help us and advise us, where we have to go and what we have to do now, against this crime which Dept. of Justice is doing with us.

Thanking you all in advance.

God Bless All.

The Corinthian

I’m sorry, but you do begin your post with what appears to be an untruth - that you are an Irish citizen – something which you go on to explain is not your own, but your child’s nationality.

If that is the case – and apologies if not - on the basis of that alone, that you have begun your discussion with a lie, then you are not going to get a lot of sympathy here.

the_syco

Lets see... you claim to be an Irish Citizen, but you're not.
Your child may be, but you still aren't.

If you are legal Britons, why do you want to become Irish?

You can apply for residency anywhere in EU, but that doesn't mean you'll be accepted.

Please note that Rupublic is not contained in Northern. There seems to have been some confusion with thath.

No offense, but I'll fight for the right of an Irishman before I fight for the right of a Briton, to live here, or in the States.

I_am_Irish

The Corinthian wrote:

I’m sorry, but you do begin your post with what appears to be an untruth - that you are an Irish citizen – something which you go on to explain is not your own, but your child’s nationality.

If that is the case – and apologies if not - on the basis of that alone, that you have begun your discussion with a lie, then you are not going to get a lot of sympathy here.

Please read my post again and you will realize, that sentence "I am an Irish Citizen like you, but with no rights." was for my child not for me.

Also read Good Friday Agreement you will understand that People from Northern or Southern has same rights in both areas. She has Irish Passport, who can deny about her Irish Citizenship or Rights.

Also remember around 16000 people already got Irish residency from around 17000 people, mostly asylum seeker, and mostly with no qualifications, who is already taking benefits, living in council house and availing every single opportunity for nothing, we are not asylum seekers and want to work.

caff

If you are a doctor, there should be a good few jobs going.. if you apply for a job as a doctor does the employer not take care of visa's and residency stuff for you?

Carrigart Exile

I_am_Irish wrote:

Please read my post again and you will realize, that sentence "I am an Irish Citizen like you, but with no rights." was for my child not for me.

Also read Good Friday Agreement you will understand that People from Northern or Southern has same rights in both areas. She has Irish Passport, who can deny about her Irish Citizenship or Rights.

Also remember around 16000 people already got Irish residency from around 17000 people, mostly asylum seeker, and mostly with no qualifications, who is already taking benefits, living in council house and availing every single opportunity for nothing, we are not asylum seekers and want to work.

If you already have UK passports why not move to the UK, get a job in the NHS, and then, from a position of employment and stability apply for jobs in the Irish Republic

silverharp

this says more about our incompetent politicians , for drafting laws that leave us open to being a flag of convenience

is_that_so

Can we assume that all you actually want at this point is your documents back?

bus77

silverharp wrote:

this says more about our incompetent politicians , for drafting laws that leave us open to being a flag of convenience

As far as I know the baby born in Ireland is Irish law goes back to the constitution. You would'nt have a flag if it wasnt for those politicians.

The Corinthian

I_am_Irish wrote:

Please read my post again and you will realize, that sentence "I am an Irish Citizen like you, but with no rights." was for my child not for me.

Sorry, but that’s simply being dishonest. You claim that you were speaking for your child when you referred to you being Irish, yet went on to list your attributes such as your qualifications and achievements – not your child’s.

The thing you must bare in mind is that your child, by dint of being in Ireland at the time of birth, may hold citizenship, but you do not. What you are now doing is assuming that the rights of citizenship should actually be retrospectively inherited. It simply does not work that way and frankly should not.

As I’ve said, I apologise if I misunderstand your situation, however what you’re claiming simply does not add up and there are too many things in (or omitted from) your initial post that have caused me to raise an eyebrow.

Darragh29

After reading your rather confusing post, I'm wondering is your name Borat by any chance???

Budd

You are not an Irish citizen. If you want to work here you we have a work permit scheme for non eu people. Having a child here means nothing. Did you purposely have a child in Belfast to take advantage of our citizenship laws? Just reading your reasoning points and you sound like a real woe is me, I deserver better type and I really hope you are never let work in this country. How about trying to make whatever ****hole you come from a better place rather than just leeching off anothers prosperity.

Sleepy

OP, what The Corinthian says is correct, while your child is an Irish citizen, unfortunately you are not and have no claim on Irish citizenship through your daughter.

I'm surprised that the Dept. of Justice doesn't recognise that a qualified doctor is someone that would be useful to Irish society (have you seen the state of the Irish health service, are you really sure you want to work there?).

Try getting in contact with the Free Legal Advice Centre, www.flac.ie, they may be able to help you or point you in the direction of someone who can.

[EDIT]While I'm not surprised to see some of the negative comments above, I'm still disappointed by them. How Irish people feel we have a right to isolate ourselves from immigration when we Irish sent a diaspora of millions all over the world is beyond me.[/EDIT]

Faith

I don't understand why you're so set on living and working in Ireland. Surely, if you've already got immigrant status in Australia and Canada, and you're legal in Britain, you could go to any of those places?

Darragh29

Budd wrote:

How about trying to make whatever ****hole you come from a better place rather than just leeching off anothers prosperity.

'Cos like us Irish have never done that, we stayed in our sh1thole and made it a better place when there were no jobs here!?!?! Grow up!

Orion

the_syco wrote:

Please note that Rupublic is not contained in Northern. There seems to have been some confusion with thath.

There was no confusion with that part. Anyone born on the island of Ireland is entitled to be an Irish citizen (with exceptions brought in recently). This is part of the Good Friday Agreement.

As for the rest of the post ... :eek:

Budd

'Cos like us Irish have never done that,

Us Irish? Don't include myself or my parents in that statement. Only a minority of people emmigrated and I don't see how their actions should bias our immigration laws.

LundiMardi

Budd wrote:

You are not an Irish citizen. If you want to work here you we have a work permit scheme for non eu people. Having a child here means nothing. Did you purposely have a child in Belfast to take advantage of our citizenship laws? Just reading your reasoning points and you sound like a real woe is me, I deserver better type and I really hope you are never let work in this country. How about trying to make whatever ****hole you come from a better place rather than just leeching off anothers prosperity.

Would you ever shut the fúck up:rolleyes:

wyndham

I_am_Irish wrote:

, but with no rights.
.

You have the right to remain silent.

Darragh29

Budd wrote:

Us Irish? Don't include myself or my parents in that statement. Only a minority of people emmigrated and I don't see how their actions should bias our immigration laws.

The point remains that people are perfectly entitled to better their circumstances within the constraints of the legislation that exists in the country that they wish to travel to, in respect of their entitlement to citizenship or the right to work. Many thousands of Irish had to immigrate to the UK and US and other places just to be able to work and provide for themselves or their families. Stupid and ignorant comments such as your post above only fuel racism.

wyndham

Budd wrote:

You are not an Irish citizen. If you want to work here you we have a work permit scheme for non eu people. Having a child here means nothing. Did you purposely have a child in Belfast to take advantage of our citizenship laws? Just reading your reasoning points and you sound like a real woe is me, I deserver better type and I really hope you are never let work in this country. How about trying to make whatever ****hole you come from a better place rather than just leeching off anothers prosperity.

Ignorance = Bliss

Budd

The usual stuff. You come out in support of our legislation and you get called ignorant, racist and told to shut the **** up. I'm telling the OP, there are laws in this country and that they have to be adhered to if he wants to work and live in Ireland.

Carrigart Exile

Darragh29 wrote:

The point remains that people are perfectly entitled to better their circumstances within the constraints of the legislation that exists in the country that they wish to travel to, in respect of their entitlement to citizenship or the right to work. Many thousands of Irish had to immigrate to the UK and US and other places just to be able to work and provide for themselves or their families. Stupid and ignorant comments such as your post above only fuel racism.

Spot on Darragh

Hobbes

Budd could of worded it better but he is correct.

The OP is not Irish. Having an Irish child doesn't automatically make you an Irish citizen.

I mean my wife is not Irish, my child is and I am and she still does not have full rights as an Irish citizen here.

You certainly have the right to better yourself and work here if you can get a job, however trying to use your child as the excuse is not the way to go around it.

seamus

If you have been resident in Northern Ireland or any other part of the UK, you can apply for UK citizenship. Once you have citizenship of an EU country, you are entitled to residency in any other EU country, including Ireland.

The Good Friday agreement allows that persons born in Northern Ireland are entitled to ROI citizenship. It does not however automatically entitle persons living in N.I. to have residency in the R.O.I.

gurramok

Child is born in Belfast, entitled to Irish and British citizenship, takes out Irish citizenship and yet the parents are legal in Britain.
As said, obvious solution is get job in UK, get British citizenship(parents), child can legally move to UK as EU citizen and then whole family can move back as EU citizens to any country they wish in EU.
Why oh why go through the hoops with Dept of Justice here before going through the above is baffling.

Darragh29

Budd wrote:

The usual stuff. You come out in support of our legislation and you get called ignorant, racist and told to shut the **** up. I'm telling the OP, there are laws in this country and that they have to be adhered to if he wants to work and live in Ireland.

No, you told him to more or less fu*k off back to as you put it, "whatever sh1thole" he came from. If we took all the people who come from parts of the world that you refer to as "sh1tholes", our health service would fall even further down around us. The guy is entitled to (a) due process and (b) to air his concerns or frustrations here or indeed anywhere without being abused by a racist like you.

panda100

Budd wrote:

Us Irish? Don't include myself or my parents in that statement. Only a minority of people emmigrated and I don't see how their actions should bias our immigration laws.

A 'minority' of Irish people emmigrated....hmmm while It may have been a minority it was still a large amount and I think Irish peole should welcome people like America,England and Australia 'welcomed' us.

aidan24326

Let's see. Baby born in Belfast? Why? What were you doing in Belfast? Sounds like you figured, hey, I'll have the baby in Northern Ireland as it's part of UK (not Britain btw) and because of Good Friday agreement, my child will be entitled to an Irish passport and citizenship. I will then use this as a launchpad for my own application for Irish citizenship. Now this plan has backfired, I will throw my toys out of the pram until I get what I want.

Now I might be wrong and sorry if I am, but there are parts of your story that don't entirely add up. Answer these questions.

1.If you already have legal status in Britain, why are you so anxious to come to Ireland at this point in time? Why not get a job in England, work there for a while, get British citizenry and full rights in that country, then you are legally entitled to go anywhere you want in the EU, including Ireland.

2.Why did you have your baby in Belfast?

3.If you have, as you say, legal status and qualification recognition in Canada and Australia then would it not be an option for you to go there? Both are good countries to live in and are better places to work as a doctor.

4.Why are Dept.of Justice not returning your documents? Is there something you have not told us?

5.Could you clarify exactly what status you have in the United Kingdom?

6.Are you telling a clear and accurate story? If not then you are wasting your time. Remember this is an anonymous forum, nobody knows who you are. So whatever your situation just tell it exactly and don't conceal anything, otherwise people cannot help you.

Let me say that if you really are a qualified doctor and everything else is above board I would be only happy to see someone like you coming here to work, but there are processes you have to follow. Laborious and bureaucratic as they are they are obviously very necessary. It would seem strange that the Dept of Justice would not see someone like you as a valuable addition to the workforce. So either the system is flawed (very possible) or you are not telling us the full story.

aidan24326

EDIT: same post submitted twice for some reason

PS to Darragh29 and Budd, the 'guy' is a woman. She said she is a doctor and her husband an IT guy.

Victor

Budd, wyndham, LundiMardi and to a lesser degree Darragh29. Behave!

I'm not sure if this qualifies as a PI. I'm tempted to move it to Humanities.

Black Swan

I think something is getting lost in translation with this thread? There also seems to be some cultural differences that are leading to a misunderstanding in some cases?

Also suspect that this thread would be better addressed in the Legal Discussion Forum?

secret_squirrel

I think its perfectly valid to demand your core identity documents back after 2 years of holding on to them.


Presumably the OP can't even leave the country without them.

OP did you have a valid visa for ireland originally? Or didnt you need one.

Typical dept of justice incompetence.

However OP my advice to you would be to cut your losses and go back to the UK, or somewhere else you are entitled to work.

Got to your home embassy report your passports as lost and start the replacement process.


As for all the bigotry on this thread - some posters should be ashamed of themselves.

RasTa

Budd wrote:

How about trying to make whatever ****hole you come from a better place rather than just leeching off anothers prosperity.

You really are an idiot arent you, I supose you would ban all immigrants even though Ireland would fall apart without them.

Darragh29

RasTa wrote:

You really are an idiot arent you, I supose you would ban all immigrants even though Ireland would fall apart without them.

Rerra! Sure the lads problem is solved if the Dept of Justice won't return his papers, sure he can't go anywhere then! It gets me fired up when we have the likes of people in Ireland who won't do the jobs that immigrants working here will do and when they get the sniff of these folks trying to better themselves, tell them to go back to their own country. Personally I think anyone who is prepared to come here and work and pay taxes shoud be welcomed. We have enough wasters and "idigineous groups" in this country that haven't done an honest days work in their lives, maybe the immigrants could teach them a thing or two about hard work.

The Corinthian

secret_squirrel wrote:

However OP my advice to you would be to cut your losses and go back to the UK, or somewhere else you are entitled to work.

Why are people repeatedly assuming they can? The OP said that they "were legal in Britain", so to say that they still are would be simply speculative.

Indeed, I think a lot of posters here are jumping to a lot of silly conclusions.

iguana

First off do as Secret_Squirrel suggested and re-apply for your passports through your embassy or consulate. That way you are free to go to Canada or Australia if you wish. The most important thing is to have your passports.

Secondly, the way the law stands having a baby in Ireland does not automatically allow you Irish citizenship. In fact if your baby had been born two months after she was, she would not even have been entitled to an Irish passport. This change in law was brought about by referendum which was put before the public because the government no longer wanted to deal with claims such as yours. (I voted against the change in the law, btw). The common pre-conception is that non-EU couples were coming to Ireland in order to give birth and then claim residency on the back of the fact that their child was an Irish citizen.

The reason why you applied for Irish citizenship for your child while resident in the UK is because she would not have been entitled to a British passport under British law which brought in legislation in 1983 similar to that which was brought into the ROI in 2005 with regards to the children of foreign nationals born in the UK. It then appears that you moved to the Repeblic in order to attempt to claim residency based on your daughters citizenship. (I'm not condemning you for this, you don't say where you are from but I'll assume you would be better off in Ireland than you would be at home. I won't criticise anyone for doing whatever it takes to be entitled to the same opportunities I was born with.) But if what you were doing is obvious to me, then it was certainly obvious to whoever was accessing your application. The fact that you weren't even resident in the Republic until you decided to claim residency will have worked against you even more than it would have for a couple who had been living in the Republic of Ireland at the time of their child's birth.

While I may be wrong I doubt you will gain residency, and if you do I doubt it would be easy or quick. If you have the right to go to Canada or Australia then you should do what you can to do so.

And a word of further advice - Your English is not very good, I'm assuming you put a lot of thought into your post, so this is your English at it's best. In your day to day communication you are probably even harder to understand. While this may be ok in your husband's IT job, depending on the exact nature of his work, it would be appalling from a doctor. In medicine poor communication can take lives, this would certainly effect my opinion on whether or not to hire you/grant residency. While you are working on your next move I suggest that you work on improving your English.

secret_squirrel

The Corinthian wrote:

Indeed, I think a lot of posters here are jumping to a lot of silly conclusions.

Agreed. Assuming the poster is a liar due to bad grammar is one of them.

The Corinthian

secret_squirrel wrote:

Agreed. Assuming the poster is a liar due to bad grammar is one of them.

No, I never assumed the poster was a liar due to bad grammar, I concluded that they were being flexible with the truth on the basis of the facts they put forward. I have already pointed that out to the OP when they claimed that it was a grammatic issue.

I suggest you read the thread with greater care.

Just My View

How long were you living in Belfast when the baby was born?
You didn't arrive there just shortly before the birth perchance?

I would like to commend you on taking no State handouts for 14 months. Did you wait 14 months out of choice? Just curious how soon after the birth did you apply for handouts?

Gordon

Yup, this isn't a PI. I would ban Rasta for that comment btw but I'm in a rush.

Moved to Humanities as afaik the Legal Discussion forum does not give legal advice as PI does not give medical advice.

Transcendant

Oh my God is it not enough that you posted this numerous times on P.ie but you must now must also flood this site too.

secret_squirrel

See Here

Looks like the OP has been a busy little spammer.

Budd

Parents of Irish Citizen Child
Mother : Doctor.
Father : IT Professional.

Who gives a **** what you got in your exams or what your jobs are? Nobody buys into that ****. The language and tone of your piece actually reminds me of sort of 419 emails I get from Nigeria. Bad english, the forced empathy and overstating of your position in society are all the same.

Hobbes

no one else find it strange that the OP wont mention what country they are from and appear to be bump\spamming rather then replying to the discussion.

amp

Budd wrote:

Who gives a **** what you got in your exams or what your jobs are? Nobody buys into that ****. The language and tone of your piece actually reminds me of sort of 419 emails I get from Nigeria. Bad english, the forced empathy and overstating of your position in society are all the same.

If you continue to attack the poster rather than the argument I will be forced to exile you from this forum. This forum is for intellectual debate.

Budd

This forum is for intellectual debate.

ahhaha!
Intellectual debate? You sound like such a cun.t. This wasn't orignally posted here and its not my problem that its ended up in the arsehole category of boards.

Orion

LOL @ Budd's stupidity. (oops I attacked the poster )

antSionnach

If this was an Irish person complaining about the immigration procedures in Britain (hypothetically speaking, of course) or any other country for that matter, she would be met with sympathy and advice, the latter being the very least that this poster seems to be desiring. Instead look what this thread has turned into, suggestions that she stop leeching off of 'our' country when our country is crying out for these medics to fill the low-status SHO and registrar posts while Irish medics pin their consultancy badges to their pinstripe suits, and she gets abject criticism down to the most trivial of points (to paraphrase one poster: never mind what you got in your exams, you have to sort out your grammar if you want to be a good doctor) Maybe patients need to sort out their prejudices...

"Us Irish" stick together, Up the Irish:rolleyes:

Hobbes

antSionnach wrote:

If this was an Irish person complaining about the immigration procedures in Britain (hypothetically speaking, of course) or any other country for that matter, she would be met with sympathy and advice,

I'm pretty sure if an Irish person posted onto an English forum about how English they are because their child is yet had been living in a different country and now demands they get rights to go to England they would get the same response.

And if they did it on an Irish forum they would probably tell them to feck off as well.

tbh

I_am_Irish wrote:

.

Also remember around 16000 people already got Irish residency from around 17000 people, mostly asylum seeker, and mostly with no qualifications, who is already taking benefits, living in council house and availing every single opportunity for nothing, we are not asylum seekers and want to work.

In fairness to ya op, you certainly sound Irish