I'm going to Court!!!

Duras

I was driving this morning on Newcastle road in Galway. For those who know the place I was coming from Westwood hotel towards city centre... There was like a huge queue of cars in front of me... massive... Unlucky for me I just noticed that 50 meters away the cars were staying in 2 lanes, those who wanted to go straight on on the right side of the lane, the others on the left side.
I just got this urge to do the same, I signaled and overtook like 30 cars in front of me, stopping behind the last car that was staying on the right side of me. Some chap behind me did the same, and there would've been many others I think if it wasn't for this Gardai car that appeared out of nowhere. Asked me and the guy behind me to pull over. I don't know what happened to the other, but for me it was like this: Gardai came, asked for the license, checked it, then return and said:
"I'm taking you to Court for dangerous driving!!"
I was expecting a fine so I was pretty shocked I was like: "Huh, what, why??":eek:

Trying to explain to him that there was nothing dangerous about what I did and everyone in front of me did more ore less the same. He said that he could not stop everyone, but he got me and I'm going to court!

It's true, while passing those cars, I also passed a small intersection, I didn't follow the letter of the law and stuff... but damn it there was NOTHING dangerous about it, I wasn't speeding or anything, I just passed them all very carefully. There was absolutely no cars coming from the other side and there haven't been for a long time, there was broken white line so overtaking is allowed... I guess the only offense that I did was to actually overtake in that small intersection... which was jammed anyway...

I have never been to Court in my life... What am I gonna do?:(

Do you think taking me to court is what they usually do, or was it a bit too harsh?

What will happen there? Has anyone ever been taking to Court for driving offenses?

Stark

What would you have done if a car had come against you on the other side?

BarryM3

Hire yourself a barrister. NOT a solicitor.

Don't try and defend yourself!!

Be prepared that the Guards description of what happened will be a fine work of fiction in comparrsion to what actually happened.

Vegeta

Stark wrote:

What would you have done if a car had come against you on the other side?

You can say that just about every overtaking situation though

what the real problem is, is the overtaking past a junction

Duras

Stark wrote:

What would you have done if a car had come against you on the other side?

Hi Stark,
You get quite a good view of the road there so I was pretty confident that there was no car on the other side. Also, if a car would appear out of nowhere, the road is pretty broad, even if it is marked as 2 lanes, you can have 3 lanes there (and you actually have 3 lanes close to the intersection even the road has the same width there)

BarryM3 wrote:

Hire yourself a barrister. NOT a solicitor.

Don't try and defend yourself!!

Be prepared that the Guards description of what happened will be a fine work of fiction in comparrsion to what actually happened.

This is not funny, you are frightening me!
Or are you serious??? :eek:

BarryM3

Were you actually on the opposite side of the road, ie across the dividing line and if so was this a solid white line or a broken one?

Unfortunately I am serious... I was brought to court by a cop for breaking a ORANGE light, not a red one! The barrister got me off it.. But I shouldn't have been there in first place as the light I went through was orange not red. The guard actually broke the red light and drove through a village at probably 60mph to catch me! Another example of our genius Gardai in action

Henry Ford III

I'm going to Gort.






I'll get my coat.

Sangre

BarryM3 wrote:

Hire yourself a barrister. NOT a solicitor.

Don't try and defend yourself!!

Be prepared that the Guards description of what happened will be a fine work of fiction in comparrsion to what actually happened.

You need a solicitor to get a barrister.

Duras

BarryM3 wrote:

Were you actually on the opposite side of the road, ie across the dividing line and if so was this a solid white line or a broken one?

While overtaking I got on the other side of the road, but the dividing like is broken white line afaik... except for that area around the intersection (where you could turn right to Greenfields for those from Galway).

BarryM3

If its a broken white line you can overtake once its safe to do so.

@ Sangre - I know that. Point I'm making is that a solicitor is a waste of time for something like this.

mike65

Not helpful Henry Ford 3rd.

If you are being "done" then thats that, just be prepared, you won't get inside any court before about next Febuary/March I'd say unless things have changed a lot.

Mike.

peasant

I'd say they have a fairly good chance of making that dangerous driving thingy stick.

Two reasons:

You were overtaking 30 odd cars ... that's a long time to be spending on the wrong side of the road with no way out IF something had come along the other way.

You drove over a solid white line at an intersection ...that's dangerous in anyones book. Just imagine, someone in the column of cars had let somebody else out from the side road to turn into your direction. You would not have seen them until it was too late.

prospect

Duras wrote:

Trying to explain to him that there was nothing dangerous about what I did

The reason that it is dangerous driving is probably because there is no specific law that covers exactly what you did. But 'dangerous driving' covers all types of things.

Based on the info you supplied it seems a bit harsh, I see far worse manouvers every commute I do too and from work.

I think you'll just have to bite the bullet and accept it.

BarryM3

peasant wrote:

You were overtaking 30 odd cars ... that's a long time to be spending on the wrong side of the road

I don't see how you can reach that decision.... If the cars were stopped it wouldn't take more than a couple of seconds.

peasant wrote:

You drove over a solid white line at an intersection ...that's dangerous in anyones book

Where did he say that he drove over a solid white line?

Savman

Duras wrote:

I just got this urge to do the same, I signaled and overtook like 30 cars in front of me

It's that "urge" that's landed you in trouble.

Trying to explain to him that there was nothing dangerous about what I did and everyone in front of me did more ore less the same.

Whatever you did, and I'm sure there's a few details you missed, he obviously felt your manoeuvre was dangerous. I'd say while pulling you in he had a good think about whether you had case for argument. They don't usually threaten court unless they're sure...

It's true, while passing those cars, I also passed a small intersection

That's where it gets a bit suspect for me, an outsider will look and say "you overtook 30 vehicles (they weren't parked or stationary, they were in traffic!) and in doing so passed an intersection" - maybe retrace your route tonight to see for sure what the broken white line situation is for that stretch of road. But there's no point doing anything until you hear back about it.

It's easier for them to prove you were driving dangerously than it is for you to show you weren't given the information you've provided so far.

Duras

peasant wrote:

You were overtaking 30 odd cars ... that's a long time to be spending on the wrong side of the road with no way out IF something had come along the other way.

You drove over a solid white line at an intersection ...that's dangerous in anyones book. Just imagine, someone in the column of cars had let somebody else out from the side road to turn into your direction. You would not have seen them until it was too late.

Here's where I did it...

I was on Newcastle Upper, and I start to overtake just before the junction with Greenfieds Road... Continued on Newcastle upper for 50m or more, overtaking the queue of cars that were trying to take left on Seamus Quirke Rd. As you can see the road is pretty straight and you have good visibility there... Also you can also see if there is someone at the Greenfields junction. As I said, it is very broad, during the day there are many cars parked on the road without affecting the traffic.


I'm not saying that I didn't break any traffic laws... what I try to say is that is what nothing dangerous in what I did... Gosh, will I be able to explain this in court...:(

TempestSabre

The guards tend to hand out the dangerous driving very easily. One Guard tried to drop that one one me when I was in the middle of a line of cars, traveling about 10-15 mph and light went amber on a very wide junction. I think its their fall back charge when they can't get you for anything specific. That said I can't give you any advice, as mine came to nothing. But in your case, what exactly can you say? You did break the law, and you're going to have to think how best to make it look as least dangerous as you can.

mike65

Gosh, will I be able to explain this in court

Thats what a legal brief is for.

Mike.

Alun

Firstly fix your link .. it's broken. Should be this


Looking at the satellite image it appears that there is cross hatching and a dedicated turn right lane for traffic coming from the opposite direction to turn into what looks like a factory or industrial estate just before the junction.

I'm guessing this is why you were cautioned, and rightly so. Overtaking in a situation like that under any circumstances is just plain illegal.

C.O.Y.B.I.B

I got pulled over for undertaking an unmarked car on the Motorway in bad weather . It was a really stupid thing to do and pretty dangerous . Said I would be going to court for Dangerous driving , but I never heard any more about it . My Solicitor told me to write it all down exactly as it had happened and sign and date it so I would remember it and guards couldnt exagerate it . They have 6 months to send you a summons , after that its too late for them to do anything about it .
I remember 6 months of sweating over it and a big night out at the end of the 6 months .

Hope this helps

peasant

Alun wrote:

Firstly fix your link .. it's broken. Should be this


Looking at the satellite image it appears that there is cross hatching and a dedicated turn right lane for traffic coming from the opposite direction to turn into what looks like a factory or industrial estate just before the junction.

I'm guessing this is why you were cautioned, and rightly so. Overtaking in a situation like that under any circumstances is just plain illegal.

Yepp ...that's where you made your mistake.
Imagine somebody from the column of cars that you were overtaking let somebody out from the industrial estate, turning right, into your direction.

You would not be able to se the car coming out until it's too late.

I had a motorbike accident in a similar situation once ...except that there was no solid white line/hatch ...it was just a private road that someone came barging out of. Feck all you can do in that situation other than crash:D

Duras

Alun wrote:

Firstly fix your link .. it's broken. Should be this

Thanks, I fixed it. If one zooms, it can take a better look at the junction. I am not sure what I cross-hatching means, but I don't think it's the same thing.. It's just a simple right-turn, and yes, it has a dedicated lane...

peasant wrote:

Yepp ...that's where you made your mistake.
Imagine somebody from the column of cars that you were overtaking let somebody out from the industrial estate, turning right, into your direction.

You would not be able to se the car coming out until it's too late.

I was driving from NW to SE... You can get a good vision on that street that appears on the right, I could've seen that there is no car on that street. The street leads to an estate. Also if a car would've come from that direction I am pretty sure that nothing would've happen. I wasn't speeding or anything and there would've been no other cars to block my view.

mscull wrote:

I got pulled over for undertaking an unmarked car on the Motorway in bad weather . It was a really stupid thing to do and pretty dangerous . Said I would be going to court for Dangerous driving , but I never heard any more about it . My Solicitor told me to write it all down exactly as it had happened and sign and date it so I would remember it and guards couldnt exagerate it . They have 6 months to send you a summons , after that its too late for them to do anything about it .
I remember 6 months of sweating over it and a big night out at the end of the 6 months .

Hope this helps

A glance of hope!!! Thank you! I would be happy with a fine as well, but getting into court, that sounds so harsh... It sounds like I'm some sort of criminal... which I am not... usually...:p I just have to pray more often in the next 6 months...

Sherifu

It's NUIG, not an industrial estate.
Hundreds of people do this maneuver every day.
It doesn't make it right but dangerous driving....

The drivers, including myself, do it at 5/10 mph
I stop at the intersection to check for cars coming out turning right.
It's a stupid design, if they didnt let cars park on the right side,
the thing wouldn't be such a mess.
Sorry to hear you got done.
I won't be doing it anymore. I'll be taking a different route.
Good luck with it man.

overdriver

You could always try ringing the guy and telling him you see now why it was dodgy, you've learned yor lesson and ask him if there's any chance he'll let it go this time.

franksm

Henry Ford III wrote:

I'm going to Gort.


I'll get my coat.

LOL - as in Klaatu Borada Nicto ?

landser

mscull wrote:

They have 6 months to send you a summons , after that its too late for them to do anything about it .
I remember 6 months of sweating over it and a big night out at the end of the 6 months .

Hope this helps

They have 6 months within which to ISSUE the summons and a further 6 months therafter within which to serve it.

For the OP, get a good solicitor and dont waste your time getting a barrister. The barristers who will do this type of work in the District Court are usually not that experienced. All you'll be getting by using a barrister is an extra fee note. Solcitors do this type of stuff day in and day out.

The court can find you guilty of careless drinving instead of dangerous driving. from what you have said, if you're found guilty of anything, it'll probably be this

BTW, did the garda formally caution i.e. name the section and act under which he intended to prosecute you. he must do this

Duras

landser wrote:

BTW, did the garda formally caution i.e. name the section and act under which he intended to prosecute you. he must do this

I don't remember anything like this... All he did was getting my details from the license and telling me that I will go to court for what I did. I even failed to ask for his name as I was feeling very nervous to be pulled over by Gardai... never happened before...
All I remember is that he kept repeating he is taking me to court, and when I was trying to tell my other side of the story, like that was nothing dangerous in what I did etc, he was saying that's BS. I told him that all the people that were queuing in front of me probably did the same... he said he can not stop all of them and that I was the worst...

Big Nelly

Seem to me in the last few weeks there is more and more threads popping on here about garda pulling up driving doing stupid things, this thread, mobile phone user thread, no seat belt thread. Garda seem to be cracking down on dangerous driving and it can only be good for everyone else on the road

Saying I had an "urge" to do something and then did it even thou you knew it was completely dangerous means you are a dangerous driver. End of Story. When your driving on a back road do you get the "urge" to floor your car to see how fast it goes? if you rely on "urges" when you drive then you should be off the road!

Anyway if brought to court get a solicator, from your description here there is no way you can defend yourself

Keith C

Big Nelly wrote:

Saying I had an "urge" to do something and then did it even thou you knew it was completely dangerous means you are a dangerous driver. End of Story. When your driving on a back road do you get the "urge" to floor your car to see how fast it goes? if you rely on "urges" when you drive then you should be off the road!

Bit harsh there Nelly, OP cut traffic like some many other people do, if there was a case of death by dangerous driving then someone should defo be off the road, but your comments are a bit OTT & "what if" imho

el tel

Call the police and complain wat the way you were treated, making sure to tell them that the pig in question called you a "dumb f**king c**t" and said that they "had been waiting to catch someone to make an example out of" and that you were the "unlucky one". It doesn't matter that this isn't true, they will probably fabricate a whole load of $hit about you too.

SonOfPerdition

Big Nelly wrote:

if you rely on "urges" when you drive then you should be off the road!

nobody relies on urges to drive . . they act on them. Nice to see you making as much sense as usual.

Big Nelly

Keith C wrote:

Bit harsh there Nelly, OP cut traffic like some many other people do, if there was a case of death by dangerous driving then someone should defo be off the road, but your comments are a bit OTT & "what if" imho

This is the problem and you pointed it out yourself "like some many other people do" the Garda need to cut this out so that people like the OP wont even bother thinking about doing this. At the moment everyone, inlcuding alot of people on here, seem to think it is ok to break rules on the road because "sure everyone does it". This does not make it right and well done the Garda. Hopefully they keep this crackdown going so soon that attitude will be got rid of off our roads and people will stop been killed

Call the police and complain wat the way you were treated, making sure to tell them that the pig in question called you a "dumb f**king c**t" and said that they "had been waiting to catch someone to make an example out of" and that you were the "unlucky one". It doesn't matter that this isn't true, they will probably fabricate a whole load of $hit about you too.

Wat a pile of bullsh*t! and what a stupid attitude to have. If you break the law then you should be charged for it, telling lies to a court is breaking the law as well.

nobody relies on urges to drive . . they act on them. Nice to see you making as much sense as usual.

First you dont make any sense? first you say people dont rely on urges to drive then you say they act on them? so if they dont have any urges when driving then how can they act on them if they dont exist??

Also how do you know anything about me? you have the grand total of 75 posts on here! you have never met me so if you cant made a decent comment then I would keep your post count around the 75

gyppo

Big Nelly wrote:

you have the grand total of 75 posts on here! you have never met me so if you cant made a decent comment then I would keep your post count around the 75

wtf! His 75 posts might make a lot more sense and be more informed than your 5000 + posts of harsh abrasive drivel.

kippy

What you did was illegal and dangerous-not as dangerous as some things that are getting done every day on the roads but still dangerous.
Whether or not other people were doing it isnt really the point. You were the one caught for it. With a bit of luck the other people will have seen you getting caught and may think twice about it doing it again. There's one poster in this thread who has already decided not to do it in future-this is a good thing.
The guard cant catch everyone, you were the unlucky one this time.
Get a solicitor, write down the details of what you remember, maybe contact the guard but accept that you may have to suffer the consequences of your actions and by the looks of it you have learned from your mistake.
I have to concur with most of what Big Nelly has said but OP, I hope the penalty isnt too bad as you seem to have learned your lesson, and the other people at the scene at the time may think twice again.
Kippy

cpoh1

I think the Big fella just likes an arguement to be honest, getting all hot and sweaty under the collar...

Big Nelly

gyppo wrote:

wtf! His 75 posts might make a lot more sense and be more informed than your 5000 + posts of harsh abrasive drivel.

Well he seems to think he knows me, nothing about my posts are abrasive, I am just pointing my point of view forward, just because you dont agree with it doesnt mean you have to attack the poster but the actual post. The only drivel so far on this thread is the post I have quoted above

shapez

To be honest and frank. I have no sympathy for you. I see this type of move every morning going to work and coming home.

Big Nelly

shapez wrote:

To be honest and frank. I have no sympathy for you. I see this type of move every morning going to work and coming home.

Well said:p

el tel

Big Nelly wrote:

Wat a pile of bullsh*t! and what a stupid attitude to have. If you break the law then you should be charged for it, telling lies to a court is breaking the law as well.

Court, did I say court? The Gardai are gimps and I don't rate them one bit. All the cop needed to do was write the ticket and tell him the charge and the offence. Repeatedly saying 'I'm taking you to court' smacks of someone who is up themselves. The pig might as well have been wearing a wig and holding a gavel. No doubt he'll probably be off with the blue-flu on the day of the hearing.

GreeBo

Big Nelly wrote:

First you dont make any sense? first you say people dont rely on urges to drive then you say they act on them? so if they dont have any urges when driving then how can they act on them if they dont exist??

Erm did you read his post?
He didnt say that urges dont exist, you said that.
He said that people do not rely in urges to drive.
An urge is something that you can choose to react to or not.

Pretty simple logic really :cool:

Duras

Big Nelly wrote:

Seem to me in the last few weeks there is more and more threads popping on here about garda pulling up driving doing stupid things, this thread, mobile phone user thread, no seat belt thread. Garda seem to be cracking down on dangerous driving and it can only be good for everyone else on the road.
Saying I had an "urge" to do something and then did it even thou you knew it was completely dangerous means you are a dangerous driver. End of Story.

I am not trying to argue Gardai ability and usefulness in this thread... Or how me using or not a seat belt is good for everyone else on the road. I just felt that it was harsh to "take me to court" for a wrong, yes, but harmless maneuver IMHO...


I have felt this "urge" (i.e. I was thinking about overtaking everyone) as there were other people in front of me that already did the same and where queuing up in an ad-hoc lane. I don't say that what I did was right or that if other people do it why shouldn't I... I keep saying it wasn't dangerous in any way neither for me nor for any other participant to the traffic. Did I break the rules? Yes. Did I put anyone in danger? NO! Do I deserve to be taken in Court for this? Wouldn't a warning or fine will be enough?

That's my main concern... What usually happens in cases like this, was it personal or is this what Gardai usually do... That's why I asked you guys if you were in a similar situation and what actually happens when you go in court.

Big Nelly wrote:

When your driving on a back road do you get the "urge" to floor your car to see how fast it goes? if you rely on "urges" when you drive then you should be off the road!

Actually I don't. I am not a speeder or anything, I got one speeding fine, true... but that's in many years of driving... However I feel it's idiotic to have 50km/h restrictions on dual carriage ways while having 100 km/h in narrow streets where only lunatics would drive with more than 50... Take me to court for that.

el tel wrote:

Call the police and complain wat the way you were treated, making sure to tell them that the pig in question called you a "dumb f**king c**t" and said that they "had been waiting to catch someone to make an example out of" and that you were the "unlucky one". It doesn't matter that this isn't true, they will probably fabricate a whole load of $hit about you too.

Well he just said that I talk bul****, but I guess that's not as bad.... And he also specified that he can not stop everyone that did it but he got me... as I was the worst... I was the last in lane that's why he got me, I'm sure... And I also felt that he is taking it too personal, especially after he checked my license... But maybe that was just my paranoia...

Seth Brundle

el tel has been banned for being abusive about the gardai.
Unnecessary way to get a point across!

Savman

Big Nelly although you're the resident "angry man" (:p) I have to agree with you here.

While I'm not always positive in my view of the gardai, when you're nabbed, you're nabbed. I've come across some asswipe cops but many are grand if depending on you're attitude.

Perhaps if the OP had admitted his manoeuvre was careless and not been all "wtf have i done wrong" the garda's attitude may have been different.

I'm not suggesting the cops are always right and should not be contested, but more often than not I'd say they're just responding like-for-like with whatever attitude you throw at them.

kippy

IMHO

This is the key, in your opinion. In a lot of other peoples opinion and the laws opinion you were in the wrong and you got caught for being in the wrong. You are annoyed that the garda had to stop you and no one else. IMHO is not a good defence against anything.

Actually I don't. I am not a speeder or anything, I got one speeding fine, true...

You got caught speeding once. Doesnt mean you are not a speeder, not that it is relevant in the context of this thread.

Dangerous driving may be a bit harsh a charge in this instance and going to court is very harsh but I am not sure if there is any other option with the charge at hand. I suppose a standard fine of €100 and 2 points on your license would without the obligatory court appearance would be a decent punishment for this but that doesnt look to be an option. I amnt sure what kind of punishment you will get either. But the guard stopping you, as I mentioned above has made a lot of other people think twice about carrying out the same maneouvre again.
Also, you make out that you are the only person ever caught at this spot doing what you did, could there possibly have been more people caught here in the past couple of years?
Kippy

Savman

Duras wrote:

Did I break the rules? Yes.

And the truth shall set you free!

What the hell are you complaining about?!?! Next time perhaps you will drive on your own "urges" and impluses and not follow other bad drivers. This sheep-like behaviour contributes to a wider problem on the roads imo.

Turner

landser wrote:

BTW, did the garda formally caution i.e. name the section and act under which he intended to prosecute you. he must do this

The above is rubbish. Gardai no longer have to issue an oral intention to prosecute and state under what section etc etc.

This Gard did however say he was going to prosecute him "bring him to court" and for the offence of dangerous driving. " Section 53 Road Traffic Act".


It was a dangerous manouvre. The Garda could not have wirtten a ticket (as there is no such things as tickets anymore its all computer generated tickets that arrivei in the post)

There is no specific ticketable offence for what the op committed. The garda has to go to court and give evidence to the judge and explain what happened.

It will most likely be reduced to a Section 52 or 51 RTA offence with a small fine.

Alun

Chief--- wrote:

The above is rubbish. Gardai no longer have to issue an oral intention to prosecute and state under what section etc etc.

If that's true, then one simple question ... why the !@#$ not? What possible advantage can there be to leaving people in doubt as to what the exact consequences will be apart from just pissing them off?

drdre

for dangerous driving you get for defo 5 penalty points and a manatory 6 months ban but if you state you need the car blah blah blah then it can be 1500 fine and 5 points.this is for sure as i have been there and done that:mad:

Sherifu

kippy wrote:

Also, you make out that you are the only person ever caught at this spot doing what you did, could there possibly have been more people caught here in the past couple of years?
Kippy

Well the dedicated turn right for NUIG is only in existance over a year since they
extended the campus that side of the quincentinial bridge, so i doubt this was a problem before then. That entrance didn't exist before that, it was some prehistoric gates into st. Anthonys.
Dangerous driving for this strikes me as o.t.t.
A day in court for it is BS imo
A fine or points is grand and learn the lesson.
If what Chief--- says turns out to be what happens then fair enough.
They should make some more offences instead of wasting court time.

Stevo11

OP: Court?? For that?? 5 points ? OMG! Jeez.. thats a bit harsh.. there should be something along the lines of "Irritating driving" as opposed to "Dangerous Driving"... also, the CC should have made 2 lanes out of that road ages ago! (its on my commute.. or at least it was until I copped on that there is a better way.. see below).
That said.. you did break the law.. an on-the-spot fine of 100e or something would be a much more suitable punishment (and deterrant I'd imagine).
To avoid this problem in the future... take a right at the Westwood and go down as far as the next roundabout and go straight through .. its quicker.. with no queues! ;-)

Like others have said... get a solicitor..

Steve

Stevo11

Yes there was a traffic problem here before then. And I've NEVER seen Gardai round there at commute time.
Steve

rkm wrote:

so i doubt this was a problem before then.