Tae Kwon Do!! XD

Krtswim

Hey, does anyone do Tae Kwon Do?? I'm testing for blackbelt in 6 months!!!!!!:eek:

pma-ire

Krtswim wrote:

Hey, does anyone do Tae Kwon Do?? I'm testing for blackbelt in 6 months!!!!!!:eek:

hi krtswim,

there are a few of us around here!

what style of tkd do you do?

Millionaire

while you at it PMA, I always wondered what the difference is between

Tang Soo Do
Tae Kwon Do
and then there is Mu Du Kwan?

I had a book as a kid (someone in USA sent me) Mu Do Kwan by Richard Chun, and I could not figure out was it Tand Soo Do, or TKD??

I know the difference btwn the main types of TKD, as I was a WTF man, in universitry days...think I made it to 3rd blue belt (red was next...never got that far, instructor swiped school money and disappered leaving bills all over the place!!!)

Black Swan

Yes. WTF. 1-dan testing for 2-dan holiday break. Also instruct. Questions either here or by PM?

pma-ire

Millionaire wrote:

while you at it PMA, I always wondered what the difference is between

Tang Soo Do
Tae Kwon Do
and then there is Mu Du Kwan?

Hey Ger,

There are two main popular modern styles of TKD today! ITF and WTF.

But there is an older form of TKD (or more Korean Karate) called Chung Do Kwan TKD.

The Chung Do Kwan was one of the first schools in Korea at the time of the Japanese occupation and was run by Lee Won Kuk who had gained a 3rd dan in Shotokan under Funakoshi Sensei while living in Japan. So the CDK used Shotokan Karate Katas pre the formation of the Japanese Karate Association (JKA) which changed many parts of Shotokan much to the dissapointment of Funakoshi Sensei at the time.

There were many other Kwans in Korea around that time some based on Karate and some based on Judo (Yudo) or Aikijitsu (Hapkido).

The KTA was an attempt to group them all together so that a united traditional form of MA could be given to the people to help boost national pride. I look at this attempt and see much the same situation in Ireland when the Gaelic League and GAA were formed!!

The WTF is more like a governing body who let anyone join once they fight in the style that the WTF promote for the Olympics. You can take on there patterns if you wish which were all developed in the last 40years or so as a break away from the way the ITF (Chang Hon forms developed by Gen. Choi and his senior masters) and Shotokan Karate.

The ITF was formed by Gen. Choi after he was removed as head of the Korean TaeKwon-Do Association (Which pretty much became the WTF there after). They only use the Chang Hon forms and use the sinewave motion to make there movements look different to break away groups of TKD that are still using the early form of ITF TKD.

Since his death, the ITF has split in 3!! With 3 different presidents all claiming to be the real ITF. Although the Austrian/North Korean based ITF did win a court battle for this title it has not stopped the others from sticking to their party lines

Tang Soo Do means China Hand Way much like the original meaning of Kara'te it was adopted by Hwang Kee who had a school called the Moo Duk Kwan. But the first school to use this term was the Chung Do Kwan. Who also used Kong Soo Do which means Empty Hand Way.

When the KTA formed the Chung Do Kwan went along with the TaeKwon-Do title as did most of the Kwans at the time. But the Mu Duk Kwan split on the idea and some stayed with Hwang Kee while others went with the KTA.

So today we have both Mu Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do and Mu Duk Kwan TaeKwon-Do! Which is really just a part of the WTF now.

If you Google some of these things you will get some great infromation!!

This article though has a lot of information that may make things a bit clearer for you man

http://practical-martial-arts.co.uk/practical_tkd/dj_tkd_history.html

yomchi

Millionaire wrote:

while you at it PMA, I always wondered what the difference is between

Tang Soo Do
Tae Kwon Do
and then there is Mu Du Kwan?

I had a book as a kid (someone in USA sent me) Mu Do Kwan by Richard Chun, and I could not figure out was it Tand Soo Do, or TKD??

I know the difference btwn the main types of TKD, as I was a WTF man, in universitry days...think I made it to 3rd blue belt (red was next...never got that far, instructor swiped school money and disappered leaving bills all over the place!!!)

Before there was anything there was the kwans. They were different schools of Korean karate, pretty much based on Japanese karate. Out of the kwans different styles developed.

Mu Do Kwan is Tang soo Do. ITF Taekwon-Do developed out of the Oh Do Kwan and a few others. Then there was Chung Do kwan which Paul does.
Basically the kwans were run by different personalities. The Oh Do kwan which Choi Hong Hi presided over went on to call their system Taekwon-Do under the Korean Taekwon-Do Association in 1959.

Paul will know much than I on this subject

yomchi

LOL ... see what I mean. Paul get your own posting times - mine is early morning!

pma-ire

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

Yes. WTF. 1-dan testing for 2-dan holiday break. Also instruct. Questions either here or by PM?

good luck with your grading blue lagoon!

pma-ire

Jon wrote:

LOL ... see what I mean. Paul get your own posting times - mine is early morning!

i take it when i can man!!

time is short

Millionaire

thats for the info lads! I knew there was a karate connection, but did not realise it was that strong.

The again another famous Korean Mas Oyama when the other way!

pma-ire

Millionaire wrote:

thats for the info lads! I knew there was a karate connection, but did not realise it was that strong.

The again another famous Korean Mas Oyama when the other way!

Oyama and Choi Hong Hi were in talks at one point to join the ITF with Kyukoshinkai!

Now would'int that have been fun

pma-ire

Millionaire wrote:

thats for the info lads! I knew there was a karate connection, but did not realise it was that strong.

Some patterns in ITF TKD are direct copies of Shotokan katas like Won Hyo is to Heian Nidan.

I do upset some TKD people when I say that TKD is really a Korean Style of Karate

yomchi

pma-ire wrote:

Some patterns in ITF TKD are direct copies of Shotokan katas like Won Hyo is to Heian Nidan.

I do upset some TKD people when I say that TKD is really a Korean Style of Karate

Only Taekwon-Do is scientifically more powerful due to the use of sine wave



LOL couldn't resist. Me and Tim Murphy used to have great rows over this

pma-ire

Jon wrote:

Only Taekwon-Do is scientifically more powerful due to the use of sine wave



LOL couldn't resist. Me and Tim Murphy used to have great rows over this

Sine Wave makes me sea sick

Millionaire

Yes and WTF is superior form TKD as the competitions were always full contact...well in Alantic Canada they were. I came 2nd in color belts in that reigon, when I was but a wee skinny student with long hair!

Tourneys were great crack, lots of KO's and lads carried out on stretchers!

In fact Kyukoshinkai Karate Clubs used to compete in those WTF tournies in canada too on occassion. probably as they wanted to get to use heavy contact.

Is WTF in Ireland the same re the level of contact?

(in canada it was kick as hard as you could to head and body for KO, that how we were trained)

Miles Long

Krtswim wrote:

Hey, does anyone do Tae Kwon Do?? I'm testing for blackbelt in 6 months!!!!!!:eek:

Hey man,

Your this far, so you must be doing something right! I'll look up this thread when I go for my BB (Blue is next, god I'm such a lazy grader!) Good luck in your training!

yomchi

Is WTF in Ireland the same re the level of contact?

WTF the world over is full contact. No head punches.

At WTF comps you generally see a lot of knock outs, its down to the simple fact that they do not use their hands to guard at all.



The guy in the air is about to deliver whats colloquely (sp) known as a tornado kick with his right leg. If I was the guy on the right, i wouldn't be standing like that. :eek:

This is common for WTF matches, powerful kicks no guard.

It is basically a kicking art, and boy can some of them kick!

Millionaire

yes they sure can kick, and kick hard, just as hard as a muay thai guy.

WTF is under rated IMO as to how tough of a sport it is. I think it is a very tough combat sport.

When I trained in it, there was tons of full contact sparring every session, and it was not easy! Sometimes we 'd got jogging at 6am in -30 degrees and canadian 2 feet of snow winters.

Though since I was a kickboxer for a few years, I held me guard up (much to annoyance of instructor) and I would block kicks hard with my elbows to boney part of kickers foot! hee hee hee! Talk about a pain inflicator. It worked great from a boxing guard, round kick came in, quick drop and twist of hips, and smack, elbow crushes foot.

I was very suprised from what I seen, no one else had figured this out??!!!???

Also the insturctor used to say, take a kick to the body, so you score 2 points or KO back with a head kick. I was like I am letting no Fooker kick me, and I ll still kick him in the head!

The only disappointing thing is the club I trained in, hand skills were real bad. its was pure Olympic Sport orientated. No self defence was taught either. not even the cool looking SD stuff, that never works.

47MartialMan

I had studied TKD at one time. Actually, I went to this Korean Instructor by referral to learn Hapkido. Wghich he had taught without ranking. He went against the claim that it was centuries old. In the example of Tae Kyon, amd such. He had stated that the country was heavuly de-culturialized by the Japanese, that many scholars had to re-write history filling in "blanks".
He gave me some of the same insight of TKD existence nearly 3 decades ago.
When I had conversed with others at such time, they had thought I was zanny.

yomchi

No self defence was taught either. not even the cool looking SD stuff, that never works.

terrible shame that

buck65

Well done original poster!
Black belt is my dream - well - my first main goal anyway as I feel it would probably be 2nd or 3rd Dan before I would become a decent artist - I have seen some of these guys in seminars and much respect to them, comparing them to 1st degrees is probably comparing someone with honours leaving cert french to a fluent speaker !!
Anyway I am studying(?) for Blue Belt myself and am starting to see that grading by grading it is getting all more technical and precise. The sparring is good and hard but am struggling alot with roundhouse and hook kicks.
TKD is fantastic and am delighted to have taken it up as it sure beats the hell out of swimming and running just to stay fit (which I still do but now with an aim) and team sports - putting in the work and end up warming the bench or substituted because the ball hasn't come near you for 10 minutes!!
I love the discipline and unlike some posters here in other codes I have no problem with calling my instructor sir in the dojo.
To me a good teacher or black belt is a role model and should be treated with respect. Anyway I'll come off the pulpit now and stop preaching.

Clive

buck65 wrote:

To me a good teacher or black belt is a role model and should be treated with respect.

Just as a matter of interest, you do know that General Choi was a self-confessed gambler and thief (after assaulting the person with a weapon, no less)?

pma-ire

Clive wrote:

Just as a matter of interest, you do know that General Choi was a self-confessed gambler and thief (after assaulting the person with a weapon, no less)?

Oh and lets not even talk about the son!!

47MartialMan

I ponder of what the North Koreans may call their martial arts?

Krtswim

Awesome thanks for replying!! I do a korean form, i'm not exactly sure what type it's probably a mix, basically the sign just says: Simon Rhee Tae Kwon Do, so ya! well if you'd like to discuss about karate or anything whatsoever email me at Krtswim@aol.com

Dyr

Clive wrote:

Just as a matter of interest, you do know that General Choi was a self-confessed gambler and thief (after assaulting the person with a weapon, no less)?

You seem to say this as if it was a bad thing Franky, I like my supreme founding grandmasters to have lived a little

Clive

As do I - but having someone like that as a founding father and then having tenets to live by, "role models" etc is pretty much like asking a priest for sexy-time advice.

Tim_Murphy

Ah General Choi, the man who proudly stated that he chose TKD over his son when his son was threatened. He was also known for humiliating students at seminars. What a role model! :rolleyes:

Tim_Murphy

LOL couldn't resist. Me and Tim Murphy used to have great rows over this

Ah good times, good times!

Tim backing up his argument with science and logic. Jon simply insisting that I couldn't do sine wave right.

Seriously I don't think I've seen a bunch of people better than ITFers to misunderstand, misinterpret, and generally butcher basic physics. I do miss annoying them though! :eek: :cool:

memtalman

47MartialMan wrote:

I ponder of what the North Koreans may call their martial arts?

oh jaysus, here we go again ...


... here again we go ...


.... to a place familiar as a group we return .... a path, well worn where big words in a funny order do dwelleth .... I ponder silently aloud what familiar mystery can be conmumbulated ?? am I a master yet?

Millionaire

Clive wrote:

Just as a matter of interest, you do know that General Choi was a self-confessed gambler and thief (after assaulting the person with a weapon, no less)?

Thats nothing compared to what we had in our own door step...

In the early 80s, when I started MA, the RTE current affairs Show, Today Tonight (now prime time), ran an report on the huge criminal/underworld influence in MA, in Ireland. ( i don't remember the details, but would love to see it today).

Terrible job I had, after that begging me folks to let me back to the local "Kratty" club.

Musashi

I do a korean form, i'm not exactly sure what type it's probably a mix, basically the sign just says: Simon Rhee Tae Kwon Do

Is that Simon Rhee from "Best of the Best" ? He and his brother Phillip both appeared in it? "Dae Han" for the win!

ColinJennings

Congratulations on getting your black tag. Just remember that it is a huge step up to get your black belt and they examiners will expect an awful lot from you. I failed my first time round, but in hindsight deservedly so. Hopefully the same won't happen to you.

yomchi

Is that Simon Rhee from "Best of the Best" ? He and his brother Phillip both appeared in it? "Dae Han" for the win!

yeh thats the guy! Simon Rhee is a fantastic WTF exponent. Still say he should have floored Dae Han though!

Tim backing up his argument with science and logic. Jon simply insisting that I couldn't do sine wave right.

Still insisting! BTW that board is meant to be back up soon. I miss Marvin

Oh and lets not even talk about the son!!

Ah now! The difference was that what Choi Jung Hwa did was politically motivated - for anyone that doesn't know - he tried to assasanate the south Korean president many moons ago.
Unfortunately in Korea drinking and gambling are major problems, typical behaviour of a post colonial past - any one notices the similarties?

pma-ire

Krtswim wrote:

Awesome thanks for replying!! I do a korean form, i'm not exactly sure what type it's probably a mix, basically the sign just says: Simon Rhee Tae Kwon Do, so ya! well if you'd like to discuss about karate or anything whatsoever email me at Krtswim@aol.com

I think he's doing old style TKD with Karate Katas??

What are the names of the forms in your TKD??

pma-ire

Jon wrote:

Ah now! The difference was that what Choi Jung Hwa did was politically motivated - for anyone that doesn't know - he tried to assasanate the south Korean president many moons ago.

And now he has the International Terrorist (I mean) TaeKwon-Do Federation

Jon wrote:

Unfortunately in Korea drinking and gambling are major problems, typical behaviour of a post colonial past - any one notices the similarties?

It's always amazed me how much alike South Korea is to the Irish Republic!

yomchi

It's always amazed me how much alike South Korea is to the Irish Republic!

Absolutely!

memphis

Only seeing this thread now.

Lads lads lads, come on now, please don't be mocking us poor ITF students.

OP, good luck in going for your Black belt. Myself, i am a Red tag in ITF TKD, and all going well should be grading for my Black belt in Oct/Nov 2007.... but that obviously depends on how my other gradings go between now and then.

pma-ire

memphis wrote:

i am a Red tag in ITF TKD, and all going well should be grading for my Black belt in Oct/Nov 2007....

well you have more of a red block than a tag

Miles Long

Millionaire wrote:

Though since I was a kickboxer for a few years, I held me guard up (much to annoyance of instructor) and I would block kicks hard with my elbows to boney part of kickers foot! hee hee hee! Talk about a pain inflicator. It worked great from a boxing guard, round kick came in, quick drop and twist of hips, and smack, elbow crushes foot.

I was very suprised from what I seen, no one else had figured this out??!!!???

Man I f:eek:king hate when people do that. That said I would use it if it was used on me! It still puzzles me that some of the best "kickers" I've ever seen are the very ones who don't guard thier heads from the kicks?!?

buck65 wrote:

Anyway I am studying(?) for Blue Belt myself and am starting to see that grading by grading it is getting all more technical and precise.

Me too. I've seen people bluff through aspects of early grades (esp stances!!!!) but there ain't no pissing about no more. Our club is looking to host a grading in December, if it does I'm ready!!!!!

memphis

pma-ire wrote:

well you have more of a red block than a tag

Ha feckin' ha!! Its for visability purposes Paul.... at least folks can see it.

Tim_Murphy

Still insisting!

Well you're consistent at least!

I miss Marvin

ya he was always good for a laugh. I've never seen anyone better at getting completely overly emotionally involved in a debate.

Roper

Millionaire wrote:

Though since I was a kickboxer for a few years, I held me guard up (much to annoyance of instructor) and I would block kicks hard with my elbows to boney part of kickers foot! hee hee hee! Talk about a pain inflicator. It worked great from a boxing guard, round kick came in, quick drop and twist of hips, and smack, elbow crushes foot.

Hey Gerry, I bet you don't do that in Thai now!!! Ouch, shin to elbow, or shin to head when you drop your elbow!!:D

yomchi

Tim_Murphy wrote:

Well you're consistent at least!

ya he was always good for a laugh. I've never seen anyone better at getting completely overly emotionally involved in a debate.

Yeh thats for sure, the Americans were always good for a laugh.

Krtswim

Thanks to all for the info, by the way i live in the united states ;P

Jimkel

Jon wrote:

Only Taekwon-Do is scientifically more powerful due to the use of sine wave



LOL couldn't resist. Me and Tim Murphy used to have great rows over this

May i ask Jon, what is sine wave?? I know its a little off topic but as a student of Shotokan I am Intrigued?? PM me if you like. Thanks man!;)

Roper

Its a method used to make patterns look sexier, I think. Basically it involves bobbing up and down.

Jimkel

Hmm, Now im even more confused, I tought it would be something like the "Kime" or "higa'te" method of power generation and delivery found in Shotokan.

When I see TKD fights I tend to percieve people bouncing flat footedly and turned sideways so their shoulder faces their opponent. with hands by sides and full body armour. trying to kick each others heads off. Is that Bouncing "sine wave"???

Don't get me wrong I am not dissing TKD, I am just curious.

pma-ire

Jimkel wrote:

May i ask Jon, what is sine wave?? I know its a little off topic but as a student of Shotokan I am Intrigued?? PM me if you like. Thanks man!;)

Sine Wave was created by the ITF so that there movements would a little different to the groups of Masters who had broken away and were still using the Chang Hon (name of the ITF set of patterns) forms.

Thats about it! Many people get and got taken in by the BS of it being the perfection of power generation? Yet they don't use it when sparring? Or doing self defence?

Hip twisting or hip whipping is much more applicable to crossing over from pattern/kata to sparring and SD.

Sorry about the rant! But Jon knows how I feel about it I'm sure he will give you a glowing insight to the Sine Wave movement

Tim_Murphy

Its a method used to make patterns look sexier

Yep that's pretty much it.

It's putting a bouncy motion in pattern movements, it doesn't really cross over to sparring. Some ITFers will probably claim that it has something to do with using scientific principles to generate more power, which is of course nonsense (Jon will back me up on this! )

debra.donovan

Tim that Board that you and Jon speak of is still not up. I used to enjoy have a snoop around there every now and again!
So did you two contribute to the downfall?