How Long Will BSG Last?

User45701

As far as i know they haven't said when they are going to end it but TBH i was thinking last nite 5 seasons would be about right end it while it is still 10/10 im not sure if i want this show to keep running for 10 seasons like SG1 also im not sure how long they can drag out the search for earth probably find it at the end of season 3 or 4.....

Fenster

I was thinking 5-6 seasons myself.

ixoy

Currently I think the ratings will get it. We all know they're continuously slipping and now it seems that Sci-Fi are considering moving it to a Wed. night to see if it can recover...

If it survives the ratings, then I think it should last no more than five seasons because the style of its arc would only allow it to be dragged out after that.

Praetorian

I reckon 4-5 season's if we're lucky. I hope I'm wrong.

Goodshape

re: the ratings, it's sort of a problem with this show that you can't really 'jump in' at any point. You simply won't know whats going on unless you watch pretty much the whole show - and the longer you leave it, the harder that gets, so it's almost inevitable that ratings will slip.

Even when recommending to friends that they watch, I have to stop short of telling them to tune in when it's on Sky One; instead I've got to suggest they borrow the DVD from somewhere and start from the start, which is a bit of a tall order.

That said, I'd like to see it go 4-5 seasons. Anymore than five would probably be over-kill, any less than 4 would be cut short I think.

User45701

4 would be just right i would fear a drop in funding in season 5 and thus it would be more dialoge, that said the dialgoe is amazing in BSG

Sherifu

Goodshape wrote:

re: the ratings, it's sort of a problem with this show that you can't really 'jump in' at any point. You simply won't know whats going on unless you watch pretty much the whole show - and the longer you leave it, the harder that gets, so it's almost inevitable that ratings will slip.

Even when recommending to friends that they watch, I have to stop short of telling them to tune in when it's on Sky One; instead I've got to suggest they borrow the DVD from somewhere and start from the start, which is a bit of a tall order.

That said, I'd like to see it go 4-5 seasons. Anymore than five would probably be over-kill, any less than 4 would be cut short I think.

I just started watching 2 weeks ago from the mini-series.
watched 1/2 eps a night, i saw a few on sky and it is very hard to
just start watching from season 2. but i thought those eps were good
so i watched it from the start and now im waiting for tonights one.
i'm glad i did watch it, great show.
but im not sure if everyone has the time and/or patience to do the same.

to answer the original question if the writers are good enough then why not go to
7/8 seasons. sg1 was good up until then, but i know it may be a big stretch for the bsg story.

User45701

sry i love this show so much bit 7/8 is too much i cant belive i am saying that but in a way id be happy with 5 seasons and then a mega mega High Def DVD collection with EVERY single deleted scene, casts, wall papers - everything u can imagine in 1 box set and i would pay allot of that -about 400 euro, because it would be worth that, 5 seasons of a tv show and a movie and a cool looking box set and countless extra features - oh and i want the complete sount track for every season and the movie aswell.

Goodshape

SG1 is a different style of show - new story, places to go and things to see / do each week. BSG is more of a singular story with sub-plots and 'b-story' arcs. Once the main story is resolved it'll be a bit of a stretch to keep on trucking.

And I think dragging the main 'on the run' story out over more than five years will also be a bit of a stretch. The production crew have also stated that they'd prefer to wrap things up before they're forced into the "Adama has lost his pen" style story lines. And I agree with that.

ixoy

Goodshape wrote:

SG1 is a different style of show - new story, places to go and things to see / do each week. BSG is more of a singular story with sub-plots and 'b-story' arcs. Once the main story is resolved it'll be a bit of a stretch to keep on trucking.

Agreed. JMS always said 5 seasons for B5 - that's how he had planned his story arc and that's what he ultimately got (more or less). An option for a S6 would've been rightly turned down.
BSG is the most arc-led sci-fi since then (with Moore's DS9 vision getting a nod too) and should only have a set length. Anything else would be too much padding and distill the goodness.

The production crew have also stated that they'd prefer to wrap things up before they're forced into the "Adama has lost his pen" style story lines. And I agree with that.

Having said that, this could work - picture it:

[Scene: Moodily lit cell, with Adama and Tighe standing over a Leoben clone]
Adama [cold, commanding]: I want to know what interest the Cylons have in my pen.
Leoben: Who says we have it?
Tighe [snarling]: Oh give me a frakkin' break, of course you frakkin' toasters have it!
Leoben: If we needed a pen we would ask God. He would provide for us.
Tighe [taking out a gun, pointing it at Leoben]: Let's see how your damned God provides for the hole in your head if you don't start talking!

[Scene: A sun-kissed beach somewhere. Baltar and ChipSix are standing before gently lapping waters]
Baltar: Why are you all so interested in retrieving Adama's pen?
Six: The pen Gaius is mightier than the sword. With it we can write God's word so that all may read of them.
Baltar: Yes but why now. Why the sudden interest? You never seemed to care before.
Six [whispering softly into Baltar's ear]: Didn't we? Or is that you didn't know that we did?
Baltar: What are you saying?
Six: I'm saying that the word of God must be spread and that this may be the best way to do it.

[Scene: Raptors are circling Galactica, on a tip off from an earlier investigation that someone clutching a pen was seen near an airlock]
Raptor #1 [voice crackling]: That's a negative, no pen on Flight Vector Alpha Four.
Healio [in command]: Raptor 2, can you try flight vector four zero gamma?
[Raptor #2 shoots off. Inside is Apollo. He suddenly spots a body floating, spinning in space]
Apollo: Command, we have a visual. Zeroing in for a closer inspection.
Gaeta [in command]: Be careful, it could be a Cylon trap.
[Apollo flies closer]
Apollo: By the lords of Kobol, what have you done!
[Camera pans back. Boomer's body is seen slowing spinning, Adama's pen clutched in her dead hand.]

TO BE CONTINUED....

Sleepy

ixoy, you've got too much time on your hands!

Sherifu

Sleepy wrote:

ixoy, you've got too much time on your hands!

truth.

ya i guess 7/8 is just wishful thinking.
the bsg story is limited in a way that sg1 wasn't.
i guess 5 high quality seasons would be good.
if they wanted to get more stories maybe
they could find other human colonies on the way home
or work in the other 5 cylon models for a season.
i still think more than 5 would be possible.
but if they'd said they're stickin with 5 i wont complain.

Khannie

User45701 wrote:

As far as i know they haven't said when they are going to end it but TBH i was thinking last nite 5 seasons would be about right end it while it is still 10/10

Have a read of that article Praetorian linked. Moore says he reckons another two seasons is about right, but he said he might feel the same way in a years time.

I doubt I'd ever tire of it tbh, though I'd hate to see it go to crap.

Vokes

4 or 5 seasons please, Ron. No more, no less

User45701

Most ever would be 6 it couldent hit 7 fans would actually complain...

Praetorian

Excellent Ixoy

Overheal

if it gets to 6; you would hope that they'd add on to the existing plot with 'lets go kill the toasters for good' and they all go and blow up the toaster-land and it turns into the last season of DS9 the way its all streamlined and actiony and everyone lives happily ever after with large boxes of pens. yay

MisterAnarchy

Goodshape wrote:

SG1 is a different style of show - new story, places to go and things to see / do each week.

Comparing SG1 and BSG is silly.
One is arguably the best TV drama in years the other is a low brow mediocre sci fi show.
How SG1 lasted 10 seasons is beyond me ,it was really cheap and the storylines were childish and corny.
BSG is far darker,more serious and superior.
I'd like to see 5-6 seasons of BSG ,enough for syndication.

Khannie

MisterAnarchy wrote:

One is arguably the best TV drama in years the other is a low brow mediocre sci fi show.

Agreed. Never understood what people saw in Stargate.

User45701

sg1 and sga a decent there just nothing compared to BSG

Overheal

Post something infammatory like that again, Anarchy, and I'll report you myself

Your SG-1 marks will be stricken from the record and beliddled as the opinions of a jealous Trekkie

However, comparing SG1 and BSG is silly; because they don't compete. One is a heavy, whodunnit space-based drama with heavy ship to ship action; while the other is an on-the-ground action/adventure series. Not to mention the time-lines are mismatched, and so is the school of technology.

They're both top notch in my opinion.

mcgarnicle

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Comparing SG1 and BSG is silly.

Agreed.

MisterAnarchy wrote:

One is arguably the best TV drama in years the other is a low brow mediocre sci fi show.

Both are low brow. I've said this before but cursing and killing are not the route to high brow entertainment. Just because the battlestar is dank and the characters are dicks doesn't make the show high brow, there is nothing intelligent or challenging about BSG.

The only sci fi show that I have watched that could realistically be called high brow was The Next Generation.

MisterAnarchy wrote:

How SG1 lasted 10 seasons is beyond me ,it was really cheap and the storylines were childish and corny.

Agree, but that's what makes it good.

MisterAnarchy wrote:

BSG is far darker

Agree

MisterAnarchy wrote:

,more serious

Agree

MisterAnarchy wrote:

and superior.

Disagree... For what SG-1 sets out to be, a spoofy sci-fi show, it is excellent. It is a totally different show to BSG which, while I watch it, I don't think is anything special.

BSG just makes me visualise what a bunch of 15 yr old angsty goth American teenagers would do if they were flying about in space. A bunch of dispicable arseholes trying to justify their existence is a depressing watch and only appeals for its action scenes... the dialogue is just as cheesy and hackneyed as that in stargate only stargate does it on purpose, BSG actually thinks it's intelligent.

MisterAnarchy

mcgarnicle wrote:

Both are low brow. I've said this before but cursing and killing are not the route to high brow entertainment. Just because the battlestar is dank and the characters are dicks doesn't make the show high brow, there is nothing intelligent or challenging about BSG.

Disagree... For what SG-1 sets out to be, a spoofy sci-fi show, it is excellent. It is a totally different show to BSG which, while I watch it, I don't think is anything special.

BSG just makes me visualise what a bunch of 15 yr old angsty goth American teenagers would do if they were flying about in space. A bunch of dispicable arseholes trying to justify their existence is a depressing watch and only appeals for its action scenes... the dialogue is just as cheesy and hackneyed as that in stargate only stargate does it on purpose, BSG actually thinks it's intelligent.

Who is that trip trap walking over my bridge ...said Mr Troll
Well while I agree Starbuck is like a 15 year old punk kid ,I think you are being too harsh on the rest of the cast.
BSG has no cheesey lines and isnt dumbed down in an age when most shows are so dumbed down its pathetic e.g Dr Who aka Dr Poo.
I agree Star Trek TNG was a very good clever show,one of my favourites. (You do realise Ronald D Moore was a key writer on TNG ?)
BSG has won widespread acclaim among many mainstream non sci-fi publications.
Time Magazine, Rolling Stone magazine and New York Newsday named it the best show on television in 2005.
Other publications like The New York Times, The New Yorker and National Review also gave the show glowing reviews.
These are highly respectable publications.
BSG is a great show.

Goodshape

I wouldn't call BSG low-brow. It's a great show.

And so are The Next Generation, Dr. Who and SG1.. although in the case of SG1 I've only realised that recently. I've never been a faithful viewer of it, but did they change the style after a few seasons? The more recent episodes I've seen have been a lot better than what I remember from earlier episodes.

Overheal

People that have been with SG1 the whole trip are starting to lose faith in it /=/ first they got rid of Rick Anderson (O'Niell) which was fine because he had a fair replacement, but then they brought in the Farscape lady. Im not saying shes bad, but she just seems out of place there.

Anyway, its a discussion for the Stargate forum.

McGarnicle, your last paragraph had me on the floor laughing and I have to agree with the dialogue point. Though BSG doesnt flop around with their lines as often as you make it sound, they do it a bit. Its not something I'd hold against the series though. Also, If SG had tried to maintain the serious tone it was going on in the first season or two, it never wouldve made it. In fact, Im pretty sure they gave up on it after Season 1 (MGM) until Richard Dean Anderson decided to get his hands dirty and pull it back out from death. Thank god he did, or we never wouldve had that grenade gag on the mothership (Season.2 prem) which officially marked when he gave it its spoofy air.

Goodshape

Overheal wrote:

People that have been with SG1 the whole trip are starting to lose faith in it /=/ first they got rid of Rick Anderson (O'Niell) which was fine because he had a fair replacement, but then they brought in the Farscape lady. Im not saying shes bad, but she just seems out of place there.

That was the case in the episodes I liked. Never cared for McGyver. Seemed to be much better craic with the new team members, although as I said I don't really have too much of a frame of reference with regards to earlier episodes.

Anyway, its a discussion for the Stargate forum.

True enough

Also, If SG had tried to maintain the serious tone it was going on in the first season or two, it never wouldve made it.

They gave up the serious tone that early? Hmm.. must tune into some of the old repeats I guess.

mcgarnicle

Goodshape wrote:

I wouldn't call BSG low-brow. It's a great show.

And so are The Next Generation, Dr. Who and SG1.. although in the case of SG1 I've only realised that recently. I've never been a faithful viewer of it, but did they change the style after a few seasons? The more recent episodes I've seen have been a lot better than what I remember from earlier episodes.

Yes at the start they took themselves a bit too seriously but as time went by they seemed to grasp the absurdity of their situation. This led to the show realising what it was and made it a comfortable view, however on occasions this has gone too far, ie that 200th episode was fairly ****e IMHO.

I do consider BSG low brow, it may be a new departure in Sci fi but it is just like all the other shows that are about... except it's set in space. The story arcs and continuos development make me want to watch the next episode but I consider that strategy rather cynical, a la 24. If a show has to resort to cliffhangers on a regular basis it shows the writers are not particularly skillfull.


RDM may have wrote for TNG but I would hardly consider him a key writer, DS9 was a different matter and here there are obvious similarities with BSG. In DS9 you have the Dominion war arc, with this you are compelled to watch the next episode, not because of the quality of the work but simply because you want to see the resolution of the previous episode. That is RDM's skill, he can drag out a plot... I don't think this is particularly beneficial.

Someone has already pointed out how difficult it is to get into BSG if you have not followed from Day 1 and this illustrates the problem. There are a lot of sub plots going on but they are fairly simplistic and hollow, there is nothing to think about in BSG apart from trivia such as is Baltar a Cylon, or have the Cylons emerged before. Compare this to TNG which took each episode, with a few exceptions, as stand alone stories and as such created a series that was easy to dip in and out of and gave people something to actually think about on a regular basis, things other than the trivial plot of the show itself, there was a deeper layer to TNG and as sad as that may make me sound it is something I loved about it. BSG is not like this, what you see is what you get and it is as crass and low brow as any action movie, except of course the sets are dank and the characters are "on the edge".

Just to clarify I'm not here to troll, I watch BSG every week and, compared what else is on tv, it is top notch. My problem is the die-hards that seem to think it is some sort of revolution in tv quality, it is not. It is simply sci-fi that happens to sell today. Back in the 80's and early 90's things were a lot further ahead, just look at TNG and some of the good episodes of The Outer Limits (I'm aware a fair percentage of these were crap but a lot were excellent too). I just think BSG could be set anywhere and have the same appeal, the fact it is set in space is incidental.

Goodshape

Nah, I'd still have to disagree (I guess I'm one of the die-hards).

TNG (which I loved) was a fairly hollow show in comparison to BSG. With some notable exceptions it was pretty much just an 'alien of the week' type affair that would resolve itself in 40 minutes and have no lasting consequences (the magic 'reset button' had everything back to normal the next week). Sure they tackled some issues from time to time, but nothing that couldn't be easily resolved with some convenient plot devices and a good helping of technobable.

BSG uses it's sci-fi setting as a way of taking an objective look at current real-world issues of religion, politics, terrorism, racism, fear, love and loyalty -- and doesn't shy away from addressing the lasting implications of the actions people are forced to take in desperate situations. I think that's probably the key difference between the shows and the reason it's hard to just 'jump in' and start watching two seasons later. That's not a bad thing, it's just not necessarily a good thing for keeping the ratings up.

There's also a lot more to the base story than might meet the eye, and certainly a lot more to think about than the fun / trivial matters like who the latest Cylon's going to be. There's been a number story lines to date that have forced the viewer to really question the actions carried out by the 'heros'. There's no infallible people here, humans or Cylon, no prime directive and certainly no emotional, visual or ethical reset switch.

Granted they're a bunch of whiney ****-ups for the most part, and the nature of the over-riding story (on the run / trying to find earth) is what most compels you to tune in again the next week, but that's just good television imo. There's a lot more going on besides.

And I'm not saying this is the only show tackling these issues, and you might be right that the sci-fi setting is largely incidental, but I bloody well like sci-fi - so it works for me

Overheal

I havent seen SG ep. 200..Hell, I havent seen a television since August but Im going to assume its another one of those where they take the absolute mickey outta themselves: a chance to ridicule all the storylines the writers admit they either fumbled or left for dead...love it.

TNG was quite the thinker show: the reason it still stands today is that you can pick up on an episode anywhere at any point and have a good go, and while you're at it you might even wonder 'hmm, now thats interesting' or some such.

The only problem with shows like BSG, 24, and DS9 (the Dominion War) is their seamless style, which makes it very hard to recap on if you missed something. However, I think the industry hotshots are starting to consider how much $ they can make of a single Dvd sale, compared to the $ they are making from 50 people watching on TV.

and Incidental, is often the way Sci-fi should be: Chaos Theory, B****! Its more fun, in a fictional environment, to see how screwed up the consequences can get

User45701

mcgarnicle wrote:

Agreed.



Both are low brow. I've said this before but cursing and killing are not the route to high brow entertainment. Just because the battlestar is dank and the characters are dicks doesn't make the show high brow, there is nothing intelligent or challenging about BSG.

The only sci fi show that I have watched that could realistically be called high brow was The Next Generation.
.

I have to disagree
BSG is the best sci-fi show far better than TNG i mean look at some of the episodes, i know they had great episodes but the overall quality of BSG is far better than the overall quality of TNG

Johnny Storm

Goodshape wrote:

TNG (which I loved) was a fairly hollow show in comparison to BSG.

Steady on, old chap !

In fairness, TNG was made almost 20 years ago! so some allowances have to be made IMHO.

Actually I pretty much agree with you, a lot of TNG was filler, about every 5th show or so they'd come up with something really surprising and good. BSG has a much higher success ratio. The interactions between the characters on TNG was very good and in some ways there were more characters that you cared about on TNG, maybe due to its long run.

Anyway IMHO BSG is definitely high brow in the way it does not pander to the lowest common denominator IE does not feel that it has to spell out every little thing.

Calibos

In fairness, TNG was made almost 20 years ago! so some allowances have to be made IMHO.

Wow, thanks for reminding how bloody old I am. I remember being a young teenager and hearing the great news that there would be a new star trek series coming out in a year or two. I'm sure some of you whipper snappers could say the same thing about when ye were kids and heard the great news about a new trek series called..............Enterprise!

I watched Battlerstar Galactica and Galactica1980.......when they premiered on TV over here, I'm not even taking about the reruns that some of the 25 year old kids here are!!

Johnny Storm

Tragically, I remember TOS when it first came out :eek:

User45701

i watche dtos when i was 5 cause my mom liked it so i didnt get to choose what was on TV and TBH im happy i watched it same as all star treks, yes even Enterprise

ixoy

mcgarnicle wrote:

Yes at the start they took themselves a bit too seriously but as time went by they seemed to grasp the absurdity of their situation. This led to the show realising what it was and made it a comfortable view, however on occasions this has gone too far, ie that 200th episode was fairly ****e IMHO.

Sinner! The 200th was great, full of gags for the long-term viewer (loved how they ripped into the movie and the pilot) and ones more recent viewers could catch up on.
I'm definetely into thinking these shows are seperate and should be judged seperately - like many SG1 fans, I love it for its playful sense of fun and irreverence. BSG is great, enjoyable but "fun" isn't a word I'd often associate with it.

I do consider BSG low brow, it may be a new departure in Sci fi but it is just like all the other shows that are about... except it's set in space. The story arcs and continuos development make me want to watch the next episode but I consider that strategy rather cynical, a la 24. If a show has to resort to cliffhangers on a regular basis it shows the writers are not particularly skillfull.

So you don't ever believe in serialized dramas? You consider that a cynical strategy? That makes no sense to me whatsoever to be honest. Do you just not want larger stories told over multiple episodes? Did you reject "Babylon 5" on similar grounds? What's wrong with stories told on huge year-spanning canvases where you can get more complex storylines in and take on the qualities that were previously limited to novels?

In DS9 you have the Dominion war arc, with this you are compelled to watch the next episode, not because of the quality of the work but simply because you want to see the resolution of the previous episode.

Maybe you were, but I was there for the quality of the writing as well. I loved how the various characters were written and how they interacted as well. I genuinely thought the Dominion plot arc was done well and I was interested in seeing how it devleoped - surely that's a testament to the quality of the writing that I actually wanted to see how they'd get of their predicaments?

Someone has already pointed out how difficult it is to get into BSG if you have not followed from Day 1 and this illustrates the problem. There are a lot of sub plots going on but they are fairly simplistic and hollow, there is nothing to think about in BSG apart from trivia such as is Baltar a Cylon, or have the Cylons emerged before. Compare this to TNG which took each episode, with a few exceptions, as stand alone stories and as such created a series that was easy to dip in and out of and gave people something to actually think about on a regular basis, things other than the trivial plot of the show itself, there was a deeper layer to TNG and as sad as that may make me sound it is something I loved about it. BSG is not like this, what you see is what you get and it is as crass and low brow as any action movie, except of course the sets are dank and the characters are "on the edge".

TNG, like a lot of Trek, was very formulaic. There was, as Goodshape has pointed out, lots of "alien of the week" storylines and they weren't always executed well either. I'm not really sure where all this "food for thought" was that you're keen on attributing to the show. The alien cultures were normally weak adaptations of human cultures and rarely did we see anything much beyond a human mind framework. Whole races could be summated in a single line - klingons=war, etc. - without any richness of character beyond the token "rebel". We had some interesting stuff of course - the Borg, the crystalline entity, etc - but it was often bogged down by the over-riding need to adapt a human mindset to everything and have everyone play nice. Or do you feel that they did delve deeper into concepts of sci-fi than that?

BSG however, to my mind, explores interesting qualties. The Cylons are an interesting culture, and it's refreshing to see the "alien" adapt a mono-theistic religion against the heroes' poly-theism. The heroes are often forced into thicker moral quandries and situations than Trek would ever dare with its more "play it safe" attitude to ethics. This makes it easier for me to relate to how people might have to adapt to situations and re-evaluate themselves.
I'd also find it hard to see how you could take the Cylons out from the space setting, given their nature - it's the fact that, though artifical, they've developed their own moral framework and code that makes them so fascinating.

The only thing I can really think is that you want a sci-fi show to explore lots of sci-fi concepts? To push that boundary and ask the big "what if" question to a lot of different scenarios? In that case, I don't think any sci-fi show has ever successfully done that to any degree of success that can be found in the short stories and novels of writers.

To me though BSG is the most deeply-written and complex of the sci-fi shows precisely because it takes the time to explore its concept in detail, rather than racing through it in the shallow fashion of other sci-fi shows and yes, that means TNG for me.

User45701

ixoy wrote:

To me though BSG is the most deeply-written and complex of the sci-fi shows

Very true, in regards to the dominion war story arc i enjoyed it because they showed us both sides of the conflict just as they are doing now in BSG
I loved the scenes on Cardassia prime with the dominion alliance

BSG has
Amazing Story
Amazing music
Amazing character depth
Amazing dialog
Amazing sfx
Amazing religious/scifi story (allot better than DS9`s the Profits story)
In every single episode and i do love star trek allot but i cant say the same about it, BSG is overall better than ST the quality of BGS is always very high while other shows do have bad episodes

mcgarnicle

ixoy wrote:

Sinner! The 200th was great, full of gags for the long-term viewer (loved how they ripped into the movie and the pilot) and ones more recent viewers could catch up on.
I'm definetely into thinking these shows are seperate and should be judged seperately - like many SG1 fans, I love it for its playful sense of fun and irreverence. BSG is great, enjoyable but "fun" isn't a word I'd often associate with it.

I thought it was awful. The odd dig here and there is funny but that ep was just ****e.

ixoy wrote:

So you don't ever believe in serialized dramas? You consider that a cynical strategy? That makes no sense to me whatsoever to be honest. Do you just not want larger stories told over multiple episodes? Did you reject "Babylon 5" on similar grounds? What's wrong with stories told on huge year-spanning canvases where you can get more complex storylines in and take on the qualities that were previously limited to novels?

I have said that I watch BSG regularly, just like I watched DS9. Do I think it is a cynical devise? Yes I do. It is common nowadays for programmes to rely on this sort of method; Lost, 24 etc. it is a lot easier to keep people coming back every week by keeping them on the edge of their seat with contrived "to be continued" episodes. It was once the case where this was a once a season, ie Star Trek. Then as these series started to get broken in two in the States it became bi-annual; Stargate. This is bad enough but to have shows now that do it every single week is fairly lazy writing.

I like BSG and would love to see it go on till the plot is played out to its natural conclusion but the fact is it has lost a lot of viewers this season and the nature of the show, the thing that has kept its ratings so high for the previous two seasons is exactly the thing which will ultimately kill it. It is not a show that facilitates new viewers.

ixoy wrote:

Maybe you were, but I was there for the quality of the writing as well. I loved how the various characters were written and how they interacted as well. I genuinely thought the Dominion plot arc was done well and I was interested in seeing how it devleoped - surely that's a testament to the quality of the writing that I actually wanted to see how they'd get of their predicaments?

I loved DS9 too but there was a lot more to it than the Dominion War, even in the last two season only maybe half or less of a season's episodes would be directly about the war. The war would be there in the background but there were other stories taking place. To me BSG seems to focus on the war, all we see are the fighter pilots and those on the front line... I know everyone is on the front line but you know what I mean. There are occasional other plots in there but they are usually pretty weak and not worth much... so much so I can't really think of any.

ixoy wrote:

TNG, like a lot of Trek, was very formulaic. There was, as Goodshape has pointed out, lots of "alien of the week" storylines and they weren't always executed well either. I'm not really sure where all this "food for thought" was that you're keen on attributing to the show. The alien cultures were normally weak adaptations of human cultures and rarely did we see anything much beyond a human mind framework. Whole races could be summated in a single line - klingons=war, etc. - without any richness of character beyond the token "rebel". We had some interesting stuff of course - the Borg, the crystalline entity, etc - but it was often bogged down by the over-riding need to adapt a human mindset to everything and have everyone play nice. Or do you feel that they did delve deeper into concepts of sci-fi than that?

If you are going to surmise Star Trek with statements like Klingons = war then I could just as easily take BSG and say Cylons = war or Humans = arseholes... Both statements would basically be right, just like yours. But somewhat missing the point of the particular race, just like yours. They would both also ignore a lot of other attributes, although for the humans in BSG I haven't seen much to show they aren't just a bunch of arseholes.

I know TNG had its shair of stinker episodes, it did last 7 years... the first 2 of which I'm not too fond of but overall when I look back at it, having watched each series multiple times I can think of plenty of "deep" moments. Off the top of my head is the episode where a McCarthyesque witCh hunt is on and trying to route out a sabatour, the resulting investigation digs up a guy who it turns out lied about his Romulan ancestry in order to get into Starfleet... this episode had more to it than all the BSG episodes I have seen put together.

Another obvious example is one that relates to last week's episode (in the States)...

The humans have the chance to destroy the Cylons by sending a cylon infected with a disease to a ressurection ship. This required two episodes to deal with and the conclusion is so stale and meaningless as to make the whole thing pointless. The selfish leader arseholes, unsurprisingly and without much conscience decide to wipe out an entire race while another selfish arsehole, who happens to be married to a cylon decides to stop them. The only reason he does this is to look after his wife, nothing more. The whole thing stank. Compare this to the episode where the Enterprise has the chance to do the same thing to the Borg and watch how Picard etc. grapple with the problem. It is not sorted out by an off the cuff reaction or a prejudicial viewpoint. A lot might say that BSGs reaction is more realistic, well fair enough... maybe it is, but the fact is I'm sure even the Nazis gave more thought to genocide than the 2 minutes it took these guys to come around to the idea. I really don't see how this is high brow entertainment.

ixoy wrote:

BSG however, to my mind, explores interesting qualties. The Cylons are an interesting culture, and it's refreshing to see the "alien" adapt a mono-theistic religion against the heroes' poly-theism. The heroes are often forced into thicker moral quandries and situations than Trek would ever dare with its more "play it safe" attitude to ethics. This makes it easier for me to relate to how people might have to adapt to situations and re-evaluate themselves.
I'd also find it hard to see how you could take the Cylons out from the space setting, given their nature - it's the fact that, though artifical, they've developed their own moral framework and code that makes them so fascinating.

You have pointed out how Star Trek has imposed humanity onto other races but now you bring up the religions in BSG. These are simply coppied from various earth religions... ten tribes of judaism etc. I don't see anything refreshing about any of the religiousity in BSG, looking at current church numbers and the amount of trainee priests in Maynooth etc it seems to me that religion is on the out and the atheist humans of TNG seem a far more real people as opposed to the humans of BSG who spout religious platitudes but who seem as amoral as any serial killer. Maybe some see this is a play on the American right? Very deep...cough

The characters are not forced into moral quandries... note spoiler above, they have to do horrible things sometimes but usually they are back to normal the next week. Compare this to Picard's reaction to being forced, by the Borg, to fight against his own people.

I know BSG as it is now has to be in space. My point was that the characters and type of stories they get involved in, how they relate etc could come from any bad drama series. These are awful characters, the fact they are all in space seems to make a lot of people give them extra weight for some reason. Honestly... tell me something about Lee Adama as a man apart from what we found out in the mini-series. I could well be wrong on this, but the only one that seems to have changed at all is Starbuck and this change was all contrived over two episodes. Compare this to the change in all the characters of TNG over the seasons. I will admit that it is only the start of the third season so not much is to be expected but the point is people are saying how great the characters are, how are they great? Is it just because of the false, unrealistic layer of "grittiness" that the writers have coated them all with?

ixoy wrote:

The only thing I can really think is that you want a sci-fi show to explore lots of sci-fi concepts? To push that boundary and ask the big "what if" question to a lot of different scenarios? In that case, I don't think any sci-fi show has ever successfully done that to any degree of success that can be found in the short stories and novels of writers.

I don't want anything, like I have said I watch BSG... it is pop corn entertainment and I like that, Independence Day is my favourite film after all. My point is pretty simple... BSG is low brow, just like Stargate. People are often praising BSG at the expense of Stargate, as happened before I said anything, they use it as a measure of how intelligent BSG is. "Hey Stargate (a purposefully spoofy, rompy, adventure/sci-fi show) is pretty silly... Therefore BSG (a show about a bunch of whiny teenagers in adult clothes with all its deep kill things and curse at others episodes) is very high brow". It's just not.

ixoy wrote:

To me though BSG is the most deeply-written and complex of the sci-fi shows precisely because it takes the time to explore its concept in detail, rather than racing through it in the shallow fashion of other sci-fi shows and yes, that means TNG for me.

At the end of the day, horses for courses. I would much rather see one issue dealt with well and the show move on than watch the cumbersome plot carry on with no direction. The simple fact is BSG will go on until it gets cancelled and so the humans will run away from the Cylons until then, if it gets the bin this season, it will get tied up in the last ep (Enterprise) if it gets some warning they might get a couple of eps or even a dvd movie (Stargate). Either way the writers probably wont have planned to end it when it happens and as such a long drawn out plot will be tied up hastily, messy and with a lot of loose ends...

I just hope they do a better job than Voyager did.

User45701

mcgarnicle wrote:

I thought it was awful. The odd dig here and there is funny but that ep was just ****e.

I Enjoyed the 200th Episode

mcgarnicle wrote:

I have said that I watch BSG regularly, just like I watched DS9. Do I think it is a cynical devise? Yes I do. It is common nowadays for programmes to rely on this sort of method; Lost, 24 etc. it is a lot easier to keep people coming back every week by keeping them on the edge of their seat with contrived "to be continued" episodes. It was once the case where this was a once a season, ie Star Trek. Then as these series started to get broken in two in the States it became bi-annual; Stargate. This is bad enough but to have shows now that do it every single week is fairly lazy writing.

The writing in BSG if FAR from lazy

mcgarnicle wrote:

I like BSG and would love to see it go on till the plot is played out to its natural conclusion but the fact is it has lost a lot of viewers this season and the nature of the show, the thing that has kept its ratings so high for the previous two seasons is exactly the thing which will ultimately kill it. It is not a show that facilitates new viewers.

Dosent matter it wont die if sci-fi are stupid enough to get rid of it sky1 the channel that originally got the show for season 1 will just take over

mcgarnicle wrote:

I loved DS9 too but there was a lot more to it than the Dominion War, even in the last two season only maybe half or less of a season's episodes would be directly about the war. The war would be there in the background but there were other stories taking place. To me BSG seems to focus on the war, all we see are the fighter pilots and those on the front line... I know everyone is on the front line but you know what I mean. There are occasional other plots in there but they are usually pretty weak and not worth much... so much so I can't really think of any.

I enjoyed all the episodes even the ones not about the war

mcgarnicle wrote:

If you are going to surmise Star Trek with statements like Klingons = war then I could just as easily take BSG and say Cylons = war or Humans = arseholes... Both statements would basically be right, just like yours. But somewhat missing the point of the particular race, just like yours. They would both also ignore a lot of other attributes, although for the humans in BSG I haven't seen much to show they aren't just a bunch of arseholes.

I know TNG had its shair of stinker episodes, it did last 7 years... the first 2 of which I'm not too fond of but overall when I look back at it, having watched each series multiple times I can think of plenty of "deep" moments. Off the top of my head is the episode where a McCarthyesque witCh hunt is on and trying to route out a sabatour, the resulting investigation digs up a guy who it turns out lied about his Romulan ancestry in order to get into Starfleet... this episode had more to it than all the BSG episodes I have seen put together.

Ah now there is allot more to BSG plots about traitors like the tribunal that adama dissolved or the plot in episode 5 calloborators

mcgarnicle wrote:

Another obvious example is one that relates to last week's episode (in the States)...

The humans have the chance to destroy the Cylons by sending a cylon infected with a disease to a ressurection ship. This required two episodes to deal with and the conclusion is so stale and meaningless as to make the whole thing pointless. The selfish leader arseholes, unsurprisingly and without much conscience decide to wipe out an entire race while another selfish arsehole, who happens to be married to a cylon decides to stop them. The only reason he does this is to look after his wife, nothing more. The whole thing stank. Compare this to the episode where the Enterprise has the chance to do the same thing to the Borg and watch how Picard etc. grapple with the problem. It is not sorted out by an off the cuff reaction or a prejudicial viewpoint. A lot might say that BSGs reaction is more realistic, well fair enough... maybe it is, but the fact is I'm sure even the Nazis gave more thought to genocide than the 2 minutes it took these guys to come around to the idea. I really don't see how this is high brow entertainment.

I have to disagree, in TNG the borg where only a threat i think piccard may have felt differently if every single human colony had been wiped out

mcgarnicle wrote:

You have pointed out how Star Trek has imposed humanity onto other races but now you bring up the religions in BSG. These are simply coppied from various earth religions... ten tribes of judaism etc. I don't see anything refreshing about any of the religiousity in BSG, looking at current church numbers and the amount of trainee priests in Maynooth etc it seems to me that religion is on the out and the atheist humans of TNG seem a far more real people as opposed to the humans of BSG who spout religious platitudes but who seem as amoral as any serial killer. Maybe some see this is a play on the American right? Very deep...cough

I hate religion but there will always be people who believe in that sort of stuff, and it is hard to show in a scifi show, i love star trek but it did take the easy way out by not having excellent religious story line because BSG is the only scifi that has a good religious story

mcgarnicle wrote:

The characters are not forced into moral quandries... note spoiler above, they have to do horrible things sometimes but usually they are back to normal the next week. Compare this to Picard's reaction to being forced, by the Borg, to fight against his own people.

Guiss Baltar?

mcgarnicle wrote:

I know BSG as it is now has to be in space. My point was that the characters and type of stories they get involved in, how they relate etc could come from any bad drama series. These are awful characters, the fact they are all in space seems to make a lot of people give them extra weight for some reason. Honestly... tell me something about Lee Adama as a man apart from what we found out in the mini-series. I could well be wrong on this, but the only one that seems to have changed at all is Starbuck and this change was all contrived over two episodes. Compare this to the change in all the characters of TNG over the seasons. I will admit that it is only the start of the third season so not much is to be expected but the point is people are saying how great the characters are, how are they great? Is it just because of the false, unrealistic layer of "grittiness" that the writers have coated them all with?

The characters change all the time

Tigh - from the pilot though the 1st season, finding his wife - the events in Season 3 changed tigh considerably as well

Starbuck - as you said

Rosalan - her character has changed from season one straight through till present episodes

Tom Zareck - His events in episode 5 where a change in character and the event sthat took place

Guias - Where do i start? i dont need to even say anything for him

Geata - being swayed from the military supporting Baltar`s presidency

Chief tirrel - His relationship with Boomer and then later with cally, his emotional response from sharran returning, remember the episode he had and he need consoling from the priest?

Boomer - Events in season 1 regarding weather or not she is a cylon and like six her download story and events on new caprica

Six - All the events on caprica the download her realisation that she loves giaus and her character interaction with the other cylons and baltar in season 3

Lee - He character had a changing point many times in his relationship with Kara, what happened to ship with the effects of the resurrection ship battle, later marrying your 1 (cant remember her name) and then getting fat/lazy and season 3 stuff

Adama - He is a strong person very strict in his views and is very loyal his character has not changed but has some amazing stores and interaction with the rest of the crew, also watch the deleted scenes on the offical site from the 1st 4episodes in season 2 and you will see or elce just buy the final DVD when it comes out

Im not quite sure if i forgot anyone but im tired ill have a look at this topic in work in the morning

mcgarnicle wrote:

I don't want anything, like I have said I watch BSG... it is pop corn entertainment and I like that, Independence Day is my favourite film after all. My point is pretty simple... BSG is low brow, just like Stargate. People are often praising BSG at the expense of Stargate, as happened before I said anything, they use it as a measure of how intelligent BSG is. "Hey Stargate (a purposefully spoofy, rompy, adventure/sci-fi show) is pretty silly... Therefore BSG (a show about a bunch of whiny teenagers in adult clothes with all its deep kill things and curse at others episodes) is very high brow". It's just not.

I just don't see why u don't like the charactors

mcgarnicle wrote:

At the end of the day, horses for courses. I would much rather see one issue dealt with well and the show move on than watch the cumbersome plot carry on with no direction. The simple fact is BSG will go on until it gets cancelled and so the humans will run away from the Cylons until then, if it gets the bin this season, it will get tied up in the last ep (Enterprise) if it gets some warning they might get a couple of eps or even a dvd movie (Stargate). Either way the writers probably wont have planned to end it when it happens and as such a long drawn out plot will be tied up hastily, messy and with a lot of loose ends...

I just hope they do a better job than Voyager did.

Well actually they already know what the ending is and they will probably do 5 seasons maybe stretch it to 6 (moore said it himself in a interview) There wont be any lose ends when BSG is over,

Even if it gets canned by scifi another station like sky1 will defiantly take it up
And yes they will do it better than voyager

cyrusdvirus

excuse my ignorance, but was the 200th stargate the one where they all were in a time loop and only O'Neill and Teal'c were were aware of it? I quite enjoyed that one. It showed all the beauty of SG and the entire ST franchise. As McGarnigle said, you can pick up and watch an episode without too much difficulty.
One of my flatmates enjoys sci fi rather than actively likes it and watched the fisrst few BSG's. Then he missed 2 weeks and the third week back i may as well not have watched it cos he was CONSTANTLY asking questions about it!
That is BSG's drawback, you miss one episode and you are pretty much shagged. Having said that i really like the show, and quite enjoy having to think a little bit when i'm watching telly, not just follow the screen as you can with SG

ixoy

gatecrash wrote:

excuse my ignorance, but was the 200th stargate the one where they all were in a time loop and only O'Neill and Teal'c were were aware of it? I quite enjoyed that one. It showed all the beauty of SG and the entire ST franchise. As McGarnigle said, you can pick up and watch an episode without too much difficulty.

Nope, you're describing S4's "Window of Opportunity" which was before even the 100th episode.

McGarnigle would you favour BSG more if it tried for more "story of the week" approach whilst still pushing the overall arc along? It seems your biggest complaint is that the whole show is basically one long long story without any smaller stories that could be told in a 42 min like "Star Trek" or "Stargate" does.

User45701

But is that not what makes BSG so enjoyable that you can just emerese yourself in the story, There is 3 other people i know who watch it with me every week and one of them was just in my house early one Saturday (before we started drinking) myself and the other 2 where watching the new episode. Season 2, Episode 16 ? Skar actually i think 16 is the episode sacrifice...

well anyway from that one episode, Skar someone i know went back and watched every single episode from the min series straight till now and he loved it so its not that hard to get someone into it, i think i recruited 2 more people after they watched the first 4 episodes in season 3

mcgarnicle

ixoy wrote:

Nope, you're describing S4's "Window of Opportunity" which was before even the 100th episode.

McGarnigle would you favour BSG more if it tried for more "story of the week" approach whilst still pushing the overall arc along? It seems your biggest complaint is that the whole show is basically one long long story without any smaller stories that could be told in a 42 min like "Star Trek" or "Stargate" does.

That is what I think is lazy, I mean no matter how many cliffhangers about earth or whatever we get we all know they aren't going to escape from the Cylons before the last episode so I don't find it that interesting. Just like when Voyager would stumble across a wormhole or something, at first you think maybe but then you realise it is halfway through season 5 and the show has two years left to run, there there is no way they are getting home.

My gripe isn't so much with BSG, as I have said I like it and I watch it. My gripe is with the fans who shout down other Sci Fi shows in order to promote it. It's an ok show but nothing special and deffinately not high brow.

mcgarnicle

User45701 wrote:

The writing in BSG if FAR from lazy

Well if you put it in capital letters it must be true.

User45701 wrote:

Dosent matter it wont die if sci-fi are stupid enough to get rid of it sky1 the channel that originally got the show for season 1 will just take over

No they split the bill with Sci-Fi, if it is dropped Sky 1 aren't going to fund it alone.

User45701 wrote:

I enjoyed all the episodes even the ones not about the war

Are you talking about BSG? What episode wasn't about the war?

User45701 wrote:

Ah now there is allot more to BSG plots about traitors like the tribunal that adama dissolved or the plot in episode 5 calloborators

How were either of these not about the war?

User45701 wrote:

I have to disagree, in TNG the borg where only a threat i think piccard may have felt differently if every single human colony had been wiped out

Give me a break, sorry to use this horrible analogy but

would the Jews have been right to kill all the Germans after WWII? That is a real problem for me with BSG, people watch it through and it is clearly written through today's ideas and prejudices ie. the Cylons are just machines. That sort of makes it easy for the audience to accept what the characters are doing but it doesn't make them any less disguisting. The fact is, taken in their own context the Cylons are supposed to be a sentient, thoughtful race and the idea that they can be whiped out on a whim is ridiculous.(Spoilered to hide genocide plot from those that can't see season 3 yet.)

User45701 wrote:

I hate religion but there will always be people who believe in that sort of stuff, and it is hard to show in a scifi show, i love star trek but it did take the easy way out by not having excellent religious story line because BSG is the only scifi that has a good religious story

How do you know there will always be? It looks to me that the more people get educated and comfortable the less they rely on religion. Just look at the drop off in religion across Europe. I know America is the exception but I'm sure in say 100 years or so America will be the same and religion will be totally gone from Europe.

User45701 wrote:

Guiss Baltar?

How has he changed? He has been in different situation but he is the same bloke he was in the first episode.

User45701 wrote:

The characters change all the time

Tigh - from the pilot though the 1st season, finding his wife - the events in Season 3 changed tigh considerably as well

He is the same drunk waster he ever was.

User45701 wrote:

Rosalan - her character has changed from season one straight through till present episodes

How? She was all tense and shaky at first cos she was nervous about the new job and she had cancer too. Now the cancer is gone and she should be different. But, from what I can see, she is the exact same.

User45701 wrote:

Tom Zareck - His events in episode 5 where a change in character and the event sthat took place

We don't know enough about him to say that. From what I can tell he is a realist and in more recent episodes he just accepted the situation was not what he thought it was.

User45701 wrote:

Guias - Where do i start? i dont need to even say anything for him

Yes you do, he hasn't changed at all. He is in every ep a lot but what has he done now that he wouldn't have done in episode 1?

User45701 wrote:

Geata - being swayed from the military supporting Baltar`s presidency

How was that different to his previous trates?

User45701 wrote:

Chief tirrel - His relationship with Boomer and then later with cally, his emotional response from sharran returning, remember the episode he had and he need consoling from the priest?

I will give you that I suppose. But after all that he seems to have totally moved on and fallen back in line with who he was in the first ep.

User45701 wrote:

Boomer - Events in season 1 regarding weather or not she is a cylon and like six her download story and events on new caprica

Fairly obvious example I suppose.

User45701 wrote:

Six - All the events on caprica the download her realisation that she loves giaus and her character interaction with the other cylons and baltar in season 3

Not really, there are different 6s and each are different. I don't see much difference between how each one was at first and is now.

User45701 wrote:

Lee - He character had a changing point many times in his relationship with Kara, what happened to ship with the effects of the resurrection ship battle, later marrying your 1 (cant remember her name) and then getting fat/lazy and season 3 stuff

He was fat/lazy for 1 episode then he ridiculously got fit. His relationship with Kara was the same as it is now in ep 1. It has yo yod a few times from good to bad but there has been no growth in it.

User45701 wrote:

Well actually they already know what the ending is and they will probably do 5 seasons maybe stretch it to 6 (moore said it himself in a interview) There wont be any lose ends when BSG is over,

Even if it gets canned by scifi another station like sky1 will defiantly take it up

They will do 5 or 6 if they are allowed. It is slipping already and being moved around the schedule to try to revive it. Yet as has been said many times it is not a show that will facilitate its revival. As numbers drop off these numbers will either remain the same or drop even further, there wont be new viewers as the show doesn't allow for them. If I had to bet I would say it will get the can mid season 4 and considering they will most likely have most of the episodes for the remaining half made at that point they will be left with 2, maybe 3 episodes to tie everything up. You think they can do all this with no loose ends?

As said already Sky 1 won't fund the show alone.

User45701 wrote:

And yes they will do it better than voyager

I hope so.

User45701

mcgarnicle wrote:

My gripe isn't so much with BSG, as I have said I like it and I watch it. My gripe is with the fans who shout down other Sci Fi shows in order to promote it. It's an ok show but nothing special and deffinately not high brow.

I love scifi i watched TOS when i was 5! that is very young for having a scifi interest.
i love star trek star gate and many other scifi shows, but BSG is the best but people have said they are so different and that is true.

My point is that if i had to pick top three
BSG would be first
2nd being DS9
3rd being SG1

Its a close battle between ds9 and sg1 again 2 completely different shows but ds9 gets 2nd place for having Gareck in it

I love all scifi shows and other shows i watch allot of tv shows and movies and BSG draws me in unlike any other show or movie it also has the unique ability to ellist a emotional response in me which is very rare for TV shows/movies

Its single story is what makes it so interesting

EDIT:

mcgarnicle wrote:

Well if you put it in capital letters it must be true.

It is true, BSG was awarded best written show of 2005.

mcgarnicle wrote:

No they split the bill with Sci-Fi, if it is dropped Sky 1 aren't going to fund it alone.

Are you 100% sure? perhaps another company will do it, or maybe a movie like SG1 either way it will finish its run in its own good time.

mcgarnicle wrote:

Are you talking about BSG? What episode wasn't about the war?

Sacrifice, Black Market

mcgarnicle wrote:

How were either of these not about the war?

Im sorry there has been a misunderstanding, i was not talking about war i was saying that BSG plots about Tribunals and Traitors are better than TNG`s plot about the traitor/tribunal that you referenced

mcgarnicle wrote:

Give me a break, sorry to use this horrible analogy but

would the Jews have been right to kill all the Germans after WWII? That is a real problem for me with BSG, people watch it through and it is clearly written through today's ideas and prejudices ie. the Cylons are just machines. That sort of makes it easy for the audience to accept what the characters are doing but it doesn't make them any less disguisting. The fact is, taken in their own context the Cylons are supposed to be a sentient, thoughtful race and the idea that they can be whiped out on a whim is ridiculous.(Spoilered to hide genocide plot from those that can't see season 3 yet.)

I am very interested in what you said, but consider this....
WWII ends, the jews possess a deadly bio weapon that they can launch into retrograde orbit and spread the bio material across the planet, the weapon is race spacfic and will only kill Germans, would they have done it?

Also the jews only lost a few million while in BSG they had lost about 99% of there race

mcgarnicle wrote:

How do you know there will always be? It looks to me that the more people get educated and comfortable the less they rely on religion. Just look at the drop off in religion across Europe. I know America is the exception but I'm sure in say 100 years or so America will be the same and religion will be totally gone from Europe.

I hope you are right
I HATE religion, i relay hate it, it is the scourge of this planet.
If religion was illegal the world would be a better place. I have always believed that it should be law that noone no teacher, parent or religious figure is even allowed to speak to a child about religion. When the person turns a certain age say 16 and is smart enough to make there own decisions then a atheist and a religious individual will both sit down with the person and argue there case....
I wonder what the person will choose?

The only reason that the scourge of religion still exists is because children are brain washed from a very young age, or in some cases people can convert because of a major traumatising life changing event happening to them. For the most part religion is brainwashed into a person from a young age. It has to stop but there will always be weak minded people who simply need to believe in something ....

mcgarnicle wrote:

How has he changed? He has been in different situation but he is the same bloke he was in the first episode.

He has changed and certain events have had a impact on his character like the events in season 3

mcgarnicle wrote:

He is the same drunk waster he ever was.

I don't see how unless you just watched the first 2 or 3 episodes of season 1 and then episodes 5 6 and 7 from season 3

mcgarnicle wrote:

How? She was all tense and shaky at first cos she was nervous about the new job and she had cancer too. Now the cancer is gone and she should be different. But, from what I can see, she is the exact same.

She has changed from being a naive little school teacher to a president who is willing to go to whatever length to protect the human race

mcgarnicle wrote:

We don't know enough about him to say that. From what I can tell he is a realist and in more recent episodes he just accepted the situation was not what he thought it was.

Ok ill give you that as well, but he is a good charactor

mcgarnicle wrote:

How was that different to his previous trates?

I suppose he does not have trates as such just remember his conversation with Gaius in season 3 episode 4 i thought that was very good and showed a different side of him than what we had seen all though the show

mcgarnicle wrote:

Not really, there are different 6s and each are different. I don't see much difference between how each one was at first and is now.

What about the whole fact of the 6`s being undecided about Baltar living or dying i found that fascinating they where the least likely to have a problem with him living, i know only caprica 6 loves him but she has great influence over the others and her character development and head baltar in season 21s episode downloaded

mcgarnicle wrote:

He was fat/lazy for 1 episode then he ridiculously got fit. His relationship with Kara was the same as it is now in ep 1. It has yo yod a few times from good to bad but there has been no growth in it.

I enjoy there interaction first time watching it, it does have limited re-watchabality especially that scene when kara has reunited with Sanders and she is locked and he walks in Kara is such a annoying drunk

mcgarnicle wrote:

They will do 5 or 6 if they are allowed. It is slipping already and being moved around the schedule to try to revive it. Yet as has been said many times it is not a show that will facilitate its revival. As numbers drop off these numbers will either remain the same or drop even further, there wont be new viewers as the show doesn't allow for them. If I had to bet I would say it will get the can mid season 4 and considering they will most likely have most of the episodes for the remaining half made at that point they will be left with 2, maybe 3 episodes to tie everything up. You think they can do all this with no loose ends?

Its not slipping allot of Americans think BSG is supporting suicide bombings because of events in season 3. I agree its not for new people and there is very little we can do here besides buy it on that apple thing but i don't like apple or .mov files so thats it for me on that one. All i can do is buy the DVDs
You may be right tho about season 4 but they wont just have 2 or 3 episodes they will make the 1st 1/2 of the season and then wait to find out if there is cancellation in order or not so there should not be too many lose ends

mcgarnicle wrote:

As said already Sky 1 won't fund the show alone.

Im sure another station will take it up with them. If they split it 50/50 why was it sky1 who got to air it 1st?

mcgarnicle wrote:

I hope so.

There is no need to hope i just don`t see any way of them ****ing up so badly that its worse then voyagers ending. They know what there fans want allot more then voyagers writers did

ixoy

mcgarnicle wrote:

That is what I think is lazy, I mean no matter how many cliffhangers about earth or whatever we get we all know they aren't going to escape from the Cylons before the last episode so I don't find it that interesting. Just like when Voyager would stumble across a wormhole or something, at first you think maybe but then you realise it is halfway through season 5 and the show has two years left to run, there there is no way they are getting home.

There's a point there, fair enough. SG-1 had a bit more freedom there, enabling them to introduce a brand new enemy in S9. BSG wouldn't appear to have that leeway and is thus more stuck with its concept for however long the show lasts and I know you've concerns that they'll drag this out for however long is needed.

Would you have more faith in a full, undistorted story if they committed to only having a set number of series? What I always admired about Babylon 5 is that JMS always said he needed 5 seasons to tell his story - no more, no less and that if he had been offered a S6 he wouldn't have taken it because it was a 5 year story only that he had to tell. Prolonging stories just because you have extra seasons can be a Bad Thing.

You do seem to dislike cliffhangers as a writing tool a lot - did you dislike "A Best of Both Worlds" similarly for example? I was under no illusion that Jean-Luc wouldn't survive - of course he would, he was the captain. Was that a similarly weak plot device?

My gripe isn't so much with BSG, as I have said I like it and I watch it. My gripe is with the fans who shout down other Sci Fi shows in order to promote it. It's an ok show but nothing special and deffinately not high brow.

Can I ask what sci-fi (if any) you think is high brow that's airing on TV? I honestly think BSG is exploring some interesting concepts and it does have some excellent production values. Sure you can argue that playing etheral music, claustrophobic camerawork, and snarling spat out lines may only add a certain gloss that fails to hide a fairly average storyline underneath (what I think you're getting at) but it certainly adds a certain extra dimension to me.

I think it's the best quality sci-fi show out there at the moment in terms of making me think but I've a definite feeling that I'd be far more likely to re-watch an episode of "Stargate: SG-1" a second time because it is that bit more isolated and, in many ways, more fun. I certainly don't think fans should sneer at all other sci-fi shows (course I don't, I wouldn't mod "Stargate" if I did) - unless it's "Andromeda...