Shoved by jogger on Clontarf-Sutton cycle path

blorg

Cycling along the Clontarf end of the path to Sutton just before it goes around the blind turn at the bonnet-protruding car-park last night. Now this cycle path is _not_ a shared use path like the other end, it's a cycle path. There are two paths for pedestrians, just over a kerb beside the road and the other side of the grass along by the sea.

Now despite this I am quite accommodating to runners/rollerbladers/etc on the cycle path, more so probably than most other people who post here. I'm very careful going around them and make sure to give them as much room as possible (sometimes even to the extent of cycling on the grass.) I do wish that groups would at least keep to one side though.

So there's a group that plays football just before that car park and around six or seven of them were heading out along the path for a jog. Now I'm going slow enough (under 20k) coming up to them thinking I'll get past them on the left as long as they keep to one side. Of course they don't and quickly start to spread out across the entire path. So I slow down completely to stop and use my back brake which due to the wet and general lack of use makes an impressive enough noise (better than a bell.)

This causes them to start swearing at me so I just ask if they could try to keep to one side. Completely polite suggestion, I don't even point out at this stage that they shouldn't be there in the first place. And then one of them shoves me. Just as another cyclist comes around the blind corner. Luckily no crash, unclipped just on time and didn't fall off.

So I continue on after them more than a bit píssed off at this and am saying that pushing cyclists using a cycle lane just isn't on. Of course not getting anywhere and the guy that pushed me is just an absolute arséhole. So at the end I just call him a fat fúck, which I regret, but I am _really_ píssed off at this point. At this point he just completely launches himself at me but I cycle away.

On the way back (maybe 45 mins later), I'm passing where they are playing and one of them kicked a ball at me and hits me. Now I honestly do think that was coincidental and an accident but I did stop just to take it up the earlier incident with them. I'm just explaining what happened earlier when FF comes up looking pretty aggressive _First thing_ I say to him is to apologise for calling him that, but he's just looking mad and the others are trying to smooth it over.

Honestly, though, this just isn't on, assaulted by someone while using a cycle path just because I ask him to try keep to one side.

po0k

Airsoft to the eyes.

Ghost Rider

Is this being serialised? What happened at the end...??

Anyway, ordinarily one tries to avoid things getting personal (i.e. "YOU FAT F_CK") but when someone shoves you it's already gone beyond diplomacy, unless your name happens to be Neville Chamberlain.

So I think you were well within your rights to comment on that gentleman's corpulence, especially as it is clearly the source of his inferiority complex.

As for pedestrians/joggers using cycle paths, it is a pet hate of mine and I've often thought of wearing a tee-shirt with "GET OFF THE BIKE PATH, F*CKWITS" printed on the back - just in case.

blorg wrote:

Cycling along the Clontarf end of the path to Sutton just before it goes around the blind turn at the bonnet-protruding car-park last night. Now this cycle path is _not_ a shared use path like the other end, it's a cycle path. There are two paths for pedestrians, just over a kerb beside the road and the other side of the grass along by the sea.

Now despite this I am quite accommodating to runners/rollerbladers/etc on the cycle path, more so probably than most other people who post here. I'm very careful going around them and make sure to give them as much room as possible (sometimes even to the extent of cycling on the grass.) I do wish that groups would at least keep to one side though.

So there's a group that plays football just before that car park and around six or seven of them were heading out along the path for a jog. Now I'm going slow enough (under 20k) coming up to them thinking I'll get past them on the left as long as they keep to one side. Of course they don't and quickly start to spread out across the entire path. So I slow down completely to stop and use my back brake which due to the wet and general lack of use makes an impressive enough noise (better than a bell.)

This causes them to start swearing at me so I just ask if they could try to keep to one side. Completely polite suggestion, I don't even point out at this stage that they shouldn't be there in the first place. And then one of them shoves me. Just as another cyclist comes around the blind corner. Luckily no crash, unclipped just on time and didn't fall off.

So I continue on after them more than a bit píssed off at this and am saying that pushing cyclists using a cycle lane just isn't on. Of course not getting anywhere and the guy that pushed me is just an absolute arséhole. So at the end I just call him a fat fúck, which I regret, but I am _really_ píssed off at this point. At this point he just completely launches himself at me but I cycle away.

On the way back (maybe 45 mins later), I'm passing where they are playing and one of them kicked a ball at me and hits me. Now I honestly do think that was coincidental and an accident but I did stop just to take it up the earlier incident with them. I'm just explaining what happened earlier when FF comes up looking pretty aggressive _First thing_ I say to him is to apologise for calling him that, but he's just looking mad and the others are trying to smooth it over.

Honestly, though, this just isn't on, assaulted by someone while using a cycle path just because I ask him to try keep to one side.

is_that_so

No call for what happened but you may have been perceived as being in the wrong. Even so best to back away from something like that. Life is too short. Not everyone loves a cyclist as has been posted elsewhere especially when they come in contact with pedestrians. You are after all the person with the machine that can do some damage.

Mr. Presentable

Ghost Rider wrote:

As for pedestrians/joggers using cycle paths, it is a pet hate of mine and I've often thought of wearing a tee-shirt with "GET OFF THE BIKE PATH, F*CKWITS" printed on the back - just in case.

To be twinned with cyclists on the footpath

It happens that FWs hit or shove other cyclists/pedestrians. It'll happen the OP again sometime. Do what my brother did when shoved by a pede, throw yourself on the ground and scream for help, ambulance, guards!

blorg

Ghost Rider wrote:

Is this being serialised? What happened at the end...??

At both "ends" I just cycled off, the first time to avoid getting into a fight with the guy, and the second time on my way back as I just didn't see it going anywhere useful.

Anyway, ordinarily one tries to avoid things getting personal (i.e. "YOU FAT F_CK") but when someone shoves you it's already gone beyond diplomacy, unless your name happens to be Neville Chamberlain.

Well exactly, I was just so píssed off as I was being really polite and just asking them to _try_ to keep to one side of the cycle path, and then he shoves me. I know well (speaking as a former FF myself) that it is just about the _worst_ thing you can say and that is _exactly_ why I said it. And exactly why I regretted saying it and apologised to him 45 mins later.

As for pedestrians/joggers using cycle paths, it is a pet hate of mine and I've often thought of wearing a tee-shirt with "GET OFF THE BIKE PATH, F*CKWITS" printed on the back - just in case.

Well as I've said already, I'm generally a _little_ more tolerant of them, especially if they are keeping to one side What really gets me though is when they are jogging on the cycle path and act as if _you_ have no right to be there cycling on it (I did mention the jogger a few months ago who told me to get the f' off the "jogging path"!)

is_that_so wrote:

No call for what happened but you may have been perceived as being in the wrong. Even so best to back away from something like that. Life is too short. Not everyone loves a cyclist as has been posted elsewhere especially when they come in contact with pedestrians.

Agree entirely, not worth it, and exactly why I did back (or cycle!) away before it got serious. I would point out though that BEFORE I was shoved, I was cycling on a cycle-only path that they shouldn't have been on, neither hit nor came near hitting them, and just politely asked them to try keep to one side. The noise of the rear brake conceivably gave them the idea that I was closer than I was (would have stopped just as well with the front only but would have been silent, used the rear as one would a bell.)

daymobrew

Clontarf Garda station is only across the road.

aside: when I saw the thread I wondered was it going to be a story about the cyclist I shoved when he ventured into the ped path near the ped overbridge in Fairview. I was jogging the opposite direction (in said ped path).

blorg

nipplenuts wrote:

To be twinned with cyclists on the footpath

It happens that FWs hit or shove other cyclists/pedestrians. It'll happen the OP again sometime. Do what my brother did when shoved by a pede, throw yourself on the ground and scream for help, ambulance, guards!

Sure, and I don't tend to cycle on the footpaths and as I've said am actually quite tolerant of joggers on cycle paths. I was just politely asking them to keep to one side! Shoving is just not on, and it's a lot more dangerous if you do it to a cyclist, especially one who is clipped into the pedals.

blorg

daymobrew- I honestly think shoving is just not on full stop, even if it is a cyclist breaking the law by being on a footpath. You'd hardly condone cyclists slapping joggers on the cycle path (although I suspect some here might ) and shoving cyclists is more dangerous. Vigilante justice. I didn't report anything as didn't see the point (1 football team vs me,) nobody was hurt, and besides I have a much more serious case ongoing at the moment.

I was honestly just hoping that maybe they would try to keep to one side in future. Increases everyone's safety and we could all just get along.

Ghost Rider

blorg wrote:

...besides I have a much more serious case ongoing at the moment.

Care to elaborate? If not, fair enough.

Raam

saw those guys last night myself. They are always spread all over the path when going for their training run, which requires a bit of dodging to get by

I've had to ask them to "watch out" before, never had any incident with them

daymobrew

King Raam wrote:

saw those guys last night myself. They are always spread all over the path when going for their training run, which requires a bit of dodging to get by

Lads, give me more details (times and exact location) and I'll ask Clontarf Gardai if they have any bicycle officers that can have a word with them to avoid future inconveniences/incidents.

blorg wrote:

daymobrew- I honestly think shoving is just not on full stop

I understand your stance. I am simply extremely frustrated by widespread ignorance.

rubadub

You need a nice big stable tricycle with some sort of spiked razor sharp plough on the front, a big air horn to give them fair warning, then mow the kunts down.

blorg

Ghost Rider wrote:

Care to elaborate? If not, fair enough.

I think I'd better not, as hopefully the driver in question will be prosecuted, and more than for a traffic offence. If all goes well (or not) I will let you know but it will be months at least as these things go.

King Raam wrote:

saw those guys last night myself. They are always spread all over the path when going for their training run, which requires a bit of dodging to get by

I've had to ask them to "watch out" before, never had any incident with them

Sure, I use that path almost daily (their parking _can_ also leave something to be desired) and see them regularly, like you dodging them carefully and never had any issue until last night. TBH it was really this one guy; even the rest of them running with him weren't doing anything like that, and when I stopped on the way back most of the rest of them were like "yeah, it was out of order," etc.

Raam

I usually see em around here...
http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&z=16&ll=53.360413,-6.20543&spn=0.00858,0.020127&t=h&om=1

just after the bit where there is a small bit of triangular grass (near the bit jutting out into the bay). Sometimes they are before it too, although perhaps there are a number of groups training there

Trojan

If it ever happens again cycle straight over to the Garda station, demand that a Garda accompany you and arrest him for assault. If you don't I'll shove you off your bike on principal.

blorg

Yeah, exactly where King Raam says. Would have been around 7h15-8h15 I think. I have _no_ objection to them training there, great, it would just be nice in general if they could be a _little_ more careful on the cycle track when they are going for their runs and keep to one side (off entirely ideally, but as I said I can live with semi-considerate joggers!) I'm just fuming over the guy who pushed me for asking him _politely_ to keep to one side on a CYCLE TRACK.

Raam

blorg wrote:

Would have been around 7h15-8h15 I think.

thats the time I was out at too. Must have seen you. You weren't wearing a white(ish) jersey by any chance?

blorg

Trojan- I would, but _wasn't_ hurt and felt that if it could just be got across to them that it IS a cycle track and if they could be a little more careful we could all just get along. Also I _do_ have a much more serious case ongoing with a motorist and I think one is enough to be carrying the flag, if you know what I mean.

blorg

King Raam wrote:

thats the time I was out at too. Must have seen you. You weren't wearing a white(ish) jersey by any chance?

No, dark top with reflective Sam Browne belt, silver touring bike, lycra shorts. No helmet (shoot me now.) I'm afraid for the rest of my spin I was a bit off in the clouds after the experience and so apologies if you were the oncoming cyclist I passed on the wrong side coming back!

Raam

blorg wrote:

No, dark top with reflective Sam Browne belt, silver touring bike, lycra shorts. No helmet (shoot me now.) I'm afraid for the rest of my spin I was a bit off in the clouds after the experience and so apologies if you were the oncoming cyclist I passed on the wrong side coming back!

ah OK, some feller was tailing me for a bit, thought it might have been you. Guess not, though

blorg

you shook them though? ;-)

Raam

blorg wrote:

you shook them though? ;-)

er, yes! Totally dropped him.

Nah, he stayed about 20 yards behind me all the way out to Sutton

Trojan

Fair enough blorg, one is enough alright.

My reasoning for action though, is that this guy is a bully, and when people don't stand up to bullies they are affirmed in their actions.

RainyDay

I'd suggest taking it to the Gardai and also to the Chairperson of the football club.

Victor

Do you have a bell?

blorg wrote:

So there's a group that plays football just before that car park

Are ball games permitted in that area?

cyclopath2001

Victor wrote:

Are ball games permitted in that area?

Is the cycle track a legal one?

blorg

I don't have a bell; I used to but with light/bag/computer attachments across the middle of my drops there simply isn't room and the bell had to go. I had got the bell originally quite specifically for that track. In any case, I can assure you my rear brake is far louder, I found the bell quite ineffective.

Not sure of the legal status of the track regarding signage.

I don't know if ball games are permitted, but again, I DON'T have a problem with them playing there, I just wish they would be slightly more considerate of cyclists on the cycle track (and not deliberately shoving them would be a start.)

Cabaal

Its a pretty awkward situation, personally I've never had a run in with a pedestration yet, drivers yes but not a pedestration

Lets hope that this one incident is the last of it,

DirkVoodoo

Does shoving someone off their bike constitute assault? If it does, then personally i would have taken the earlier posters advice and popped into the garda station. If the gentleman was as portly as you say, he wasnt going to be getting away in a hurry!

robfitz

DirkVoodoo wrote:

Does shoving someone off their bike constitute assault?

Yes.

Non-Fatal Offences against the Person Act, 1997, Section 2
Assault.
2.—(1) A person shall be guilty of the offence of assault who, without lawful excuse, intentionally or recklessly—
( a ) directly or indirectly applies force to or causes an impact on the body of another, or
( b ) causes another to believe on reasonable grounds that he or she is likely immediately to be subjected to any such force or impact,
without the consent of the other.
...

miketv

I take that route about once a week from town around Howth and back so I know that path quite well, i've encountered all sorts over the years but that sound serious about shoving you off your bike, that guy sounds like a nasty piece of work and i suspect the next time that crowd are training (assume same time each week, thats if they were kicking around a ball) the same guy will have it in for any cyclist, so it could be anybody next time. Can you post a very brief description of the guy and his mates or what they were doing so I can certainly avoid them, or more that we'll know the same person if he tried anything on the posters here.
Sorry for your troubles, should not have happened.

The near miss haps i encounter on that cycle path are owners walking their dogs, problem being the owner is on the walk path while their little dog is across the path(not clearly visable) and hense in darkness the dog lead is a lethal weapon when cycling at high speed.

Ghost Rider

You didn't actually come off your bike, Blorg, did you? Unless a person is actually injured, I can't imagine the police would want to bring an assault charge. Maybe an "attempted assault" charge (if there is one) or a charge of threatening behaviour might be more applicable.

Anyway, even though I loathe bullying as much as anyone, I'm inclined to think situations like these should be resolved between civilians as much as possible (assuming they don't come to blows). Referring to an overweight individual as a "fat f_ck" in response to a relatively ineffectual shove is pretty much tantamount to settling the moral debt, I'd have thought.

Standing up to bullies can sometimes mean reporting them to the authorities. Other times, it can just mean drawing attention to their excessive adipose tissue.

DirkVoodoo wrote:

Does shoving someone off their bike constitute assault? If it does, then personally i would have taken the earlier posters advice and popped into the garda station. If the gentleman was as portly as you say, he wasnt going to be getting away in a hurry!

Evil Phil

Ghost Rider wrote:

You didn't actually come off your bike, Blorg, did you? Unless a person is actually injured, I can't imagine the police would want to bring an assault charge. Maybe an "attempted assault" charge (if there is one) or a charge of threatening behaviour might be more applicable.

I'm not a lawer but as far as I know it does. If the assault causes injury then its a serious assault.

Civilian_Target

Moral of the story: don't call people fat ****s

cyclopath2001

blorg wrote:

Not sure of the legal status of the track regarding signage.

Big question - is this a cycle track within the meaning of the Road Traffic Acts?

Worst case scenario, the cycle track may be technically in a public park (it's not on a road way and it's not on a footpath). The fact that the city council has decided to use the legal sign RUS009a but has omitted to lay down surface markings RUS023 or RUS022 may be because this is not a 'cycle track' within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act and regulations. The absence of proper lighting may also indicate that the city council does not intend for the cycle track to be a commuting route.

If that were to be the case and none of the normal road traffic regulations apply, the track would be governed by park by-laws. There may be nothing in these by-laws to prohibit joggers from running on the cycle track, or people walking their dogs there if they choose. Of course, assault or reckless behaviour would still be illegal.

I could not find anything online regarding Dublin City Council park by-laws, but South Dublin County Council imposes a blanket 10mph speed limit on all vehicles that are permitted to be driven through its parks.

Opinions?

RasTa

Let Bas show you what you should of done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WlT9mqHTWI

RainyDay

I scared the bejasus out of a walker in th cycle lane along by Marley Park at Grange Road yesterday. I really wasn't trying to scare her, as I was travelling fairly slowly, given that I had my 3-year-old on her seat on the back.

As I approached the walker, she obviously heard something and looked over her shoulder just as I approached her, which seemed to scare the pants off her. I told her in measured tones that it was a cycle lane, so hopefully she will have learnt her lesson.

greenmat

A jogger in the clontarf cycle lane tonight gave me a elbow in the side as I passed him while he and his mates were running towards me in the cycle lane tonight. I'll keep an eye out for him in future the baldy bol**x. What is it with this particular cycle track, the amount of arseholes who f**k it up.

Raam

greenmat wrote: »

A jogger in the clontarf cycle lane tonight gave me a elbow in the side as I passed him while he and his mates were running towards me in the cycle lane tonight. I'll keep an eye out for him in future the baldy bol**x. What is it with this particular cycle track, the amount of arseholes who f**k it up.

LOL, I was almost in a collision with a jogger earlier. He was right on the white line and I drifted left a bit unintentionally. Made the poor feller jump. Didn't mean to do that.

Jawgap

Beasty

I've seen Lusk Doyle out jogging recently. Didn't think he went that far though ...:D

Lusk Doyle

Beasty wrote: »

I've seen Lusk Doyle out jogging recently. Didn't think he went that far though ...:D

I resent that remark. I was running.

Beasty

Oops - sorry - he was "running";)

Lusk Doyle

Two legs good. Two wheels bad.

killalanerr

run forest run !

C3PO

A 6 year old thread brought back to life .... is that a record?

NeedMoreGears

There seemed to be a lot of muppets on the track last night. I came across quite a few joggers in the cycle track plus a few pedestrians - all oblivious of the fact that there were bikes about. I have a feeling it tends to get worse after about 1830.

However - assault is assault - one for the gaurds i think

@greenmat - was it you that passed me just after the causeway heading towards howth where there were two joggers running down the white line?

greenmat

C3PO wrote: »

A 6 year old thread brought back to life .... is that a record?

Hope so, see can you beat that.

NeedMoreGears wrote: »

@greenmat - was it you that passed me just after the causeway heading towards howth where there were two joggers running down the white line?

Couldn't tell you, the track was awash with bikes and joggers last night. Think I'll stay away from it when it's dark, dangerous enough with the dogs and prams without getting shoved by some asshole.

brayblue24

When the ball was kicked at you, maybe you should have picked it up and cycled off happily. Then thrown it in the Liffey

hardCopy

brayblue24 wrote: »

When the ball was kicked at you, maybe you should have picked it up and cycled off happily. Then thrown it in the Liffey

It happened six years ago, I'm sure he's over any regrets