Interesting article about Aldi/Lidl

okidoki987

http://www.thepost.ie/ezineSBP/story.asp?storyid=18602

Genghis

Interesting article, interesting timing. The whole point of seems to be that Aldi and Lidl (who, by the way are NEVER discussed as seperate companies in the Irish press) are shifty foreigners that offer very little choice and poor customer service.

In reality, I find that the goods in Lidl and especially in Aldi to be of equal or superior quality to branded goods. They are much, much cheaper, and while they may not carry as many lines as a full supermarket, you can do maybe 90% of your shopping there. Service is an issue, granted.

Methinks that the Irish retailers are a little bit worried about the Christmas spend. Don't worry lads, as long as the Irish consumer holds notions about themselves being in some way superior to the Lidl and Aldi offering, you'll be okay. That is the real reason Aldi and Lidl have not succeeded here as well as in other markets - snobbery.

MisterAnarchy

okidoki987 wrote:

http://www.thepost.ie/ezineSBP/story.asp?storyid=18602

That article is complete and utter garbage,racist and very biased against Lidl and Aldi.
I do most of weekly my shopping between the 2 and the vast majority of their products are top quality.
Tesco Ireland is purely a name,it is a British company .
Its half-year profits rose 10.3% to £1.09bn, helped by international sales.That is a hell of a lot of profit.
The prices in Tesco Ireland shops are far more expensive than in their UK counterpart.

TarfHead

SundayBusinessPost wrote:

‘‘They have had absolutely no impact on us,” said the owner of one of Ireland’s largest SuperValu chains. ‘‘I am not just saying that

Oh yeah ? Then why did my local SuperValu start selling no-brand DVD players and other household tat after a LIDL opened a mile away ? Coincidence :rolleyes: ?

I agree that most opposition to "LILDI" is snobbery. The LIDL in Pottery Road is the first time they've got a foothold in the more affluent parts of South County Dublin. Perhaps the local planners feared they'd be overrun with hordes of working-class type people :rolleyes: .

Dades

MisterAnarchy wrote:

That article is complete and utter garbage,racist and very biased against Lidl and Aldi.

Which parts of the article are racist exactly? And are you disputing the statistics they quote?

There is a distinction between the article itself, and with the "quotes" from Irish retailers.

Sleepy

Am absolutely delighted with the opening of the pottery road branch of LIDL (in the same industrial estate as my employer \o/). Saved a fortune on my shopping last week and imagine I'll make similar savings every other time I do my shopping there.

Linoge

The Atheist wrote:

Which parts of the article are racist exactly? And are you disputing the statistics they quote?

There is a distinction between the article itself, and with the "quotes" from Irish retailers.

Agreed.

The article is unbiased and purely quotes the supermarkets. Statistics can speak for themselves.

All its saying is that Aldi and Lidl Ireland are underperforming relative to the rest of Europe.

(And I wouldn't mind about them being grouped together, they pretty much identical)

dahamsta

MisterAnarchy wrote:

That article is complete and utter garbage,racist and very biased against Lidl and Aldi.

"Racist" is a bit much.

I do most of weekly my shopping between the 2

Well done. You're not 4 million people though, you're one person.

Tesco Ireland is purely a name,it is a British company .

It is to a certain extent, and that's very sad and probably a reflection on Irish capitalists, however this is covered clearly in the article. Did you read the whole thing?

I don't mean to be rude - no really, just forthright - but you're really coming across just as kneejerk as you seem to believe the SBP is being.

adam

jor el

Genghis wrote:

That is the real reason Aldi and Lidl have not succeeded here as well as in other markets - snobbery.

Indeed, I know many people who refuse to shop in either Lidl or Aldi because they "know" that it's all sub-standard tripe. How can anyone possibly know that if they've never shopped there? Pure snobbery. I remember mentioning I got a nice bottle of Bordeaux for €4.99 in Lidl, to the utter dismay of my friend that insisted you have to spend at least €20 to get a good bottle of wine. My answer: no, no you don't. Not the best wine in the world but then I couldn't tell the difference. There was nothing wrong with it anyway.

I've never found their choice, quality or service to be lacking. They don't stock everything I like, but neither does Tesco or Dunnes, no shop has everything you're looking for. I find that both Lidl and Aldi are better than Tesco for things like fish, rashers and sausages, eggs, milk, pizza, burgers, cooking oils/wok oils, pasta, rice, which are the items I buy most regularly there. Some of the other supermarket's cheap own brand stuff often doesn't taste that nice.

As for the weekly specials, haven't Dunnes and SuperValu started doing similar deals since Lidl and Aldi arrived? That's a testiment to how much of an effect they are having on the other supermarkets.

Ruu_Old

This shouldn't really be in Bargain Alerts even thought a good of the bargains posted are from Lidl. Moved to Consumer Issues.

antoinolachtnai

This article is badly researched.

The main constraint on Lidl/Aldi's growth seems to be the availability of premises. If they had the floor space, they could get a lot more market share. Planning hurdles have been a big damper on growth.

They could drop the prices by 20 percent and still make a margin. They don't, because they don't have the capacity to handle increased demand.

Most of the statements about aldi/lidl about logistics and store locations could be applied equally well to tesco, dunnes or even superquinn.

it simply isn't true to say that the model has not been adapted at all. There are patently a signficant number of Irish oriented and Irish sourced goods in the stores, particularly in Lidl. I find it hard to believe that the person who wrote this stuff actually visited a Lidl and an Aldi.

District managers visit stores frequently and staff are under significant pressure to meet expectations. Kaudewitz admitted in 1999 that Lidl was a ‘‘demanding employer’’.

What in under God is that supposed to mean?

Linoge

antoinolachtnai wrote:

This article is badly researched.

The main constraint on Lidl/Aldi's growth seems to be the availability of premises. If they had the floor space, they could get a lot more market share. Planning hurdles have been a big damper on growth.

They could drop the prices by 20 percent and still make a margin. They don't, because they don't have the capacity to handle increased demand.

Most of the statements about aldi/lidl about logistics and store locations could be applied equally well to tesco, dunnes or even superquinn.

it simply isn't true to say that the model has not been adapted at all. There are patently a signficant number of Irish oriented and Irish sourced goods in the stores, particularly in Lidl. I find it hard to believe that the person who wrote this stuff actually visited a Lidl and an Aldi.



What in under God is that supposed to mean?

Because you don't agree with the article you call it badly researched? huh

It quotes statistics and figures and gives comparisons, whereas your opinion that they have adapted to the Irish market doesn't even contain an example:rolleyes:

parsi

Some of that article seems to be dubious :

- Lidl have 2 depots in Ireland - newbridge and Charleville,
- they don't seem to have a particular leaning towards motorway locations eg the French stores I've seen are in similar locations to Irish stores and a look at the stores in Berlin (lidl.de) shows that they are well in the city boundaries.

I think that they are happy to be cheaper than the others and still nicely dearer than their home markets. Some of their goods are of decent quality but I often think their hams are not the best.

snickerpuss

I wouldn't shop in Lidl or Aldi, for a start there isn't enough stuff in them (or the ones near me anyway) for a proper shop and i find that stuff from there always tastes a bit wonky.
I'd only buy meat from superquinn anyway and thats where i always go!

GreeBo

snickerpuss wrote:

I wouldn't shop in Lidl or Aldi, for a start there isn't enough stuff in them (or the ones near me anyway) for a proper shop and i find that stuff from there always tastes a bit wonky.
I'd only buy meat from superquinn anyway and thats where i always go!

Do you buy:
Ketchup
Toilet Paper
Toilet Brushes
Tinfoil
Pizzas
Ice Cream
Drinks
Bars
Bisuits
Tea
Coffee


If so you can save a shed load of cash.

For example
Toilet paper in Aldi is less than half the price it is in Superquinn, Half.
Quality is at least equal, superior to some of the brands, especially "shops own"


That said, I do buy my meat in Superquinn as I prefer to buy from a butcher and not prepacked.

Sponge Bob

I thought them to be as good as any of the rest for customer service , one of teh complaints in the article, but recently aldi in Galway acquired a horrible ignorant woman as a manager so I stopped going there.

GreeBo

I have found customer service to be quite good, I often see employees helping people to find certain items or talking to them about items.

My issue is with the tills, there is often only 1 or 2 open with large queues.
This is very frustrating if (like me) you only nip in to get 1 or two things.
An express (10 or less) till is badly needed.

squire1

GreeBo wrote:

My issue is with the tills, there is often only 1 or 2 open with large queues.
This is very frustrating if (like me) you only nip in to get 1 or two things.
An express (10 or less) till is badly needed.

Ha GreeBo, that's probably me in front of you with a huge trolly full, holding you up:D

I use Lidl, go there every two weeks for a big stock up. I find them massivly better value than my other alternative, Tesco. I never had a problem with them as I spent some time living in Germay where all the Supermarkets are like Lidl/Aldi.

I find a lot of their products/foods to be of a higher quality than the equivalent in Tesco/Dunnes etc and they are sold at a much lower price.

The best thing about them is that you can go into a Lidl anywhere in Ireland and every shop is laid out exactly the same, with each product in exactly the same place as it is in your local branch.

And where else can you buy some butter, some beer, a toilet, a set of adjustable spanners and a DVD recorder in one shop;)

My feeling is that as people in this country start to feel the inevitable pinch, they will give the likes of Aldi/Lidl a go and when they try the products they will wonder why they did not try them earlier.

Alun

I too lived in Germany for a time, and I'm not phased by some of the strange brands and unfamiliar products as much as some people I know. I too go there once every couple of weeks or so for the staples, since the nearest one to us is in Wicklow, but there's a brand new one opening up in Greystones in a couple of weeks, so trips ther might become more frequent.

As far as service goes, they might only have a couple of tills open, but those checkout girls can scan stuff quicker than I can put it in the basket, unlike Tesco, Superquinn et. al.

iguana

Lidl and Aldi are fantastic for cheese, milk, ice-cream, pasta, rice, nuts, crisps, sweets, biscuits, packed meat, brioche, olives and stuffed chillis.:p I often go in for one or two things and end up getting several bagfulls and I'm still always really pleasantly surprised when they tell me the price.

The also have great really special deals, I just got a great deep fat fryer in Aldi this week. Because I live in the UK I can also buy my otc pills there, which i don't think they do in Ireland? 24 paracetemol for 16p and my husbands allergy medicine for 82p which costs £3.60 in the chemist.

There ice-cream and desserts are the best. But it would be good if they had baskets as sometimes my arms get so full as i'm walking around that I have to stop looking and head to the checkout. And I do hate how difficult it is to leave the shop if you don't buy anything.

the_syco

Meh. Own-brand loo-roll ain't sandpaper, in lidl or aldi. Tesco-brand is bloody sandpaper, tho:mad:

Good for lots of stuff. As for the electrical goods: they buy enough that will get sold, and not sit on some shelf for 3 of 4 weeks.

undo

Alun wrote:

those checkout girls can scan stuff quicker than I can put it in the basket

The checkout girls at Aldi in Germany used to be known for keying in prices faster than anybody else could type them. They have since installed scanners there as well, but for a long time, Aldi management preferred manual typing as it was simply faster than scanning.

antoinolachtnai

Linoge wrote:

Because you don't agree with the article you call it badly researched? huh

It quotes statistics and figures and gives comparisons, whereas your opinion that they have adapted to the Irish market doesn't even contain an example:rolleyes:

No, I call it badly researched because it is badly researched. Some of the facts are wrong. A lot of them are irrelevant to any story. I think the journalist is a bit bothered that Aldi and Lidl declined to give a view.

It quotes a few statistics, so what? Statistics aren't meaningful in themselves. The journalist didn't give a view on what the statistics actually mean. Market share figures don't mean much unless you have some idea about the underlying competitive landscape and the cost-volume profit situation.

You want an example of a products in Lidl that show they have adapted for the Irish market? How about Viscount biscuits? Mars bars? Irish sausages? Irish potatoes? Cheddar cheese?

bmaxi

antoinolachtnai wrote:

You want an example of a products in Lidl that show they have adapted for the Irish market? How about Viscount biscuits? Mars bars? Irish sausages? Irish potatoes? Cheddar cheese?

What about that well known German delicacy, "Beamish". I don't know why all the hostility toward Lidl/Aldi, they deliver good quality stuff at reasonable prices. OK you might not have great variety but if the quality is good, does that matter so much. They could certainly teach Tesco a thing or two when it comes to customer relations and as was discussed elsewhere on this Forum, they don't tend to leave perishables on the shelves up to their "sell by" date. I think there is something in the Irish Psyche that is suspicious of a bargain, like someone is trying to put one over on us.

Guy:Incognito

snickerpuss wrote:

I wouldn't shop in Lidl or Aldi, for a start there isn't enough stuff in them (or the ones near me anyway) for a proper shop and i find that stuff from there always tastes a bit wonky.
I'd only buy meat from superquinn anyway and thats where i always go!

Look at the pork contents of stuff like irish sausages, then compare it to the german stuff in lidl/aldi. 55% (denny, everyday etc) compared to 90 -odd % is always going to taste different.

snickerpuss

Stekelly wrote:

Look at the pork contents of stuff like irish sausages, then compare it to the german stuff in lidl/aldi. 55% (denny, everyday etc) compared to 90 -odd % is always going to taste different.

I wouldn't buy denny i usually get them from superquinn which is well over 55%.
Aldi/Lidl just don't do it for me.

jimmy2shoes

never went to an aldi until about 2 months ago. finding that my girlfriend and i who came over from the uk were spending about 80-90 euro a week in a big shop at dunnes and still having to pop in there during the week for more stuff. since going to aldi we spend about 40 euro in there, maybe 20 in dunnes for certain stuff that aldi don't do( and get about a tenth of the amount of aldi) and about 15 in a butchers in douglas. since shopping at aldi we have cut the amount we spend on food by about 30-40 euro a week and the quality is very good. ever had frikadella? do so they taste great and are like an institution in countries like holland.

tesco's and dunnes are basically rip-offs, but i've noticed that the irish love to be ripped off. they may talk about it, but the vast majority of people just put up with it. this is a perfect case, another is aib bank. anyone who banks with the aib is being ripped off, and they are an idiot, full stop. no other country in the western world has banks that charge you for putting your wages into your own account!!!!!!

5uspect

I remember 4 or 5 years ago when Lidl opened in New Ross, there were queues across the bridge from Waterford with the amount of people wanting to shop there. The supermarkets in the town (Basically all run by Supervalu) nearly went bust. But then something peculiar happened. People decided they didn't quite like the meat in Lidl or the bread or whatever and they got those items in SuperValu. People began to shop around - competition after all is good. Since then Tesco and now Aldi have both opened up there and SuperValu has downgraded to a centra (i think, i haven't been around there in awhile) and everyone is happy.

I'm living in Limerick now and I'm situated more or less halfway between Dunnes and Superquinn, I tend to go to Superquinn as the fruit and veg and meat are very good there but Superquinn is expensive, and Dunnes isn't too much better. There is an Aldi being opened across the road soon and as poor student (have pity on me) I don't own a car so I'll vote with my pocket and my feet, I'll still get my nice fancy meat in Superquinn but Aldi will do nicely for everything else.

So I don't understand the fuss, at the end of the day the choice is yours.

Mo-Mo

I know a lot of people who won't shop there because they believe that cheaper food = worse food. But if you know how to read labels and understand what is in food it's very easy to find quality food cheaply in Lidl and Aldi.

I couldn't believe it when I found 95% pork sausages. You'd be hard pressed to find that in most supermarkets. Although as said by someone earlier I only buy meat in the butchers.

Mo-Mo

also Lidl do a very good range of fruit and veg. With as much Irish produce as any Irish supermarket

sashasolar

Mo-Mo wrote:

also Lidl do a very good range of fruit and veg. With as much Irish produce as any Irish supermarket

BTW, I was pleasantly surprised when I saw ORGANIC vegatavles in Aldi last Sunday! The choice is limited to potatoes, carrots, oranges, babanas and apples, but it's a very good start! And you know what?! 6 organic apples are being sold for something like 2.49/EUR! Which is very-very competitive! The whole Christmas range is quite nice - you get two types of Champagne (I mean Champagne-Champagne!) - like 20 Euro a bottle.

I agree with one of the posters above: it makes perfect sense to shop in Aldi for most of the stuff and to buy the rest in butchers or other supermarkets.
Another thing is that I've noticed that Aldi's "Specially Selected" brand foods are extremely good.

Can't say same about Lidl though: shopped there once or twice and wasn't really impressed with the taste of their pizzas, sauces and sausages...

P.S. Believe or not - I don't work for Aldi, I am just a happy Aldi's customer that is tired of being ripped off!

murphaph

Indeed, speedy checkout staff are part of the corporate culture at both retailers. One used to require staff to memorise all the prices for every product and the other required them to memorise a 3 digit code for every product in store. Scanners are quite new in their german branches as they are actually slower than an operator keying in codes as the operator could look down the belt and have it all keyed in before the customer had even emptied their trolley! A legacy of this system is that staff throughout Europe are still expected to memorise all fruit and veg codes and you will notice how simple the keyboards are at these stores compared to many-just a keypad and card reader basically! Other retailers have monstrous keyboard with all sorts of colours for the different depts. The two german companies rely on the staff to remember and it makes the process much faster.

As an employee of one of the two companies I will say the following; the figures the SBP used may be accurate but BOTH companies are private concerns and as such are not required to disclose their accounts like a PLC. They are both extremely secretive about their figures and it is an advantage to them. Suffice to say, a branch of either company in the RoI is likley to be approximately twice as productive (turnover/man hours used) as in their homeland. The german management should be fairly pleased with its operations here.

Both companies are tough employers and there is always pressure to deliver but competent staff are well paid for their efforts. It's not slave labour by any means. People would be shocked if they knew what a regular store manager earns, albeit for hard work.

If you want to know if the stuff is any good, ask the staff-all staff do their shopping in there, that says more to me about quality than anything else. The rule in my company (and I assume the other) is that if you are in any way unsure about the quality of meat/fruit/veg etc. then you simply take it off sale and bin it. There is no running to a supervisor to ask. The way staff are supposed to decide is simple "would you buy this?" if not, bin it.

I can understand the frustrations at till queues but remember, staff will try to clear them asap and if we had another cashier on, we'd have to increase prices. Nevertheless, I have been stood longer in queues in 'traditional' supermarkets than in either german retailer on more than one occasion. Both companies operate on a minimum staff level princple but both pay higher to cashiers than other retailers so staff know more is expected of them. However, if for example, a staff member calls in sick at short notice, this can affect us more than a store with lots of redundancy but with the consequent higher prices.

Alun

sashasolar wrote:

BTW, I was pleasantly surprised when I saw ORGANIC vegetables in Aldi last Sunday!

They've got them in Lidl now, too. Potatoes, onions, carrots, turnips, tomatoes and a few other things. Most from Irish producers plus one or two from the UK and Holland. The tomatoes were actually Italian!

sashasolar

Alun wrote:

They've got them in Lidl now, too. Potatoes, onions, carrots, turnips, tomatoes and a few other things. Most from Irish producers plus one or two from the UK and Holland. The tomatoes were actually Italian!

I wander what the traditional supermarkets will do with their crazy prices for organic stuff.
BTW, Aldi's organic range expanding a bit:D

Jambo

My 2pence worth about Lidl and Aldi is like stekelly said - take a look at their package contents / ingredients and see for your self the amounts of additives , salt , sugars and preservatives that are contained within .

I used to shop at both lidl and aldi all the time until I noticed this myself and then I also noticed looking at a lot of there sell by dates compared to similar goods in your local spar / tesco / dunnes , our german friends seem to have products that have shelf lifes way over and above what spar / tesco / dunnes are offering so surely this must say something .

Stekelly wrote:

Look at the pork contents of stuff like irish sausages, then compare it to the german stuff in lidl/aldi. 55% (denny, everyday etc) compared to 90 -odd % is always going to taste different.

And just to say one more thing about the above quote who says what the pork content is ? lips , ears , skin there all part of the pig they all could be pork content . And these trimmings / offcuts have been know to be in many other canned and preserved meals !!

MOH

Jambo wrote:

My 2pence worth about Lidl and Aldi is like stekelly said - take a look at their package contents / ingredients and see for your self the amounts of additives , salt , sugars and preservatives that are contained within .

I used to shop at both lidl and aldi all the time until I noticed this myself and then I also noticed looking at a lot of there sell by dates compared to similar goods in your local spar / tesco / dunnes , our german friends seem to have products that have shelf lifes way over and above what spar / tesco / dunnes are offering so surely this must say something .

Well, it could just be saying that the stuff in Lidl/Aldi is fresher when it goes on the shelf. My local Spar used to be a joke, had to stop going there as stuff was always going off.

Jambo wrote:

And just to say one more thing about the above quote who says what the pork content is ? lips , ears , skin there all part of the pig they all could be pork content . And these trimmings / offcuts have been know to be in many other canned and preserved meals !!

Same comment applies equally to Irish sausages!

Marksie

I do my shopping in lidl all the time. Some of their stuff is very good, some so so. You choose what you want in one shop then get what you want from another. But certainly consumers in the laois branch moaned that you couldnt get everything under one roof and went to rip off tescos. they didnt seem to care about savings..just convenience. But when i asked them if they would walk 200yards and wait for an extra 15minutes and i would give em 25 euro (my average saving) they said yes, but couldnt apply it to doing the same with shopping.

If i had a gripe it would be with the check outs..they are very rarely fullymanned. In the uk, they checkout girls insist on you loading the trolley and leaving the till free for the next ones immediately. Not so in the laois branch, possibly because the locals would get thick with em.
Mind you it is crazy on the "specials" days the is full of guys with wellies and the women are fighting over the cheap bedding.

2funki4wheelz

Have to add my support to Lidl (mostly) and Aldi too.

A Lidl set up in Portarlington on my side of town, a much shorter walk than to Supervalu as I have no car. As mentioned in previous posts I think a % of Irish people are:
- wannabe snobby .People have more money than sense - hence "luxury" ranges like Tesco Finest etc pay more = get more
- stuck in their ways ("but I've always bought my sausages in Superquinn")
- rubbish at getting bargains/accept things the way they are

I know tons of people who wouldn't even try the food from Lidl, automatically assuming it's rubbish because it doesn't say Findus/Superquinn/Denny's or whatever. I don't buy everything there, I understand personal taste (I hate their milk for example) but I save a fortune on cleaning products, which particularly suit me (and many Irish homes) as they all seem to remove limescale, and foods like tuna, cheeses, biscuits, sweets, kitchen roll, veg etc.

(As a thought how many people do you know that suddenly embraced Lidl/Aldi for Halloween for stuff to hand to other people's children????):rolleyes:

I thought it was just where I lived where people were afraid of new stuff, it's amazing how many people (with cars!!) still shop in our local rip-off SuperValu. But I guess it's everywhere. I hope we don't lose our Lidl!

murphaph

Useful recipe website devoted to Lidl ingredients! Bon Apetit!

dancin

Jambo wrote:

And just to say one more thing about the above quote who says what the pork content is ? lips , ears , skin there all part of the pig they all could be pork content . And these trimmings / offcuts have been know to be in many other canned and preserved meals !!

And you think that the Irish factory produced meats are any better?

I worked as a butcher while paying my way through college, and I could tell you a thing or two about the irish food chain...

Where do you think they put the "mechanically reclaimed meat" (stripped from bone with a pressure hose) - that's the stuff that the workers can't get off with a Knife because it's too small to cut away, or in an inaccessible place.

And that makes up only a little over half of the product, the rest is filler, mainly Rusk (like you feed kids without the sugar) and water. You'd be amazed at how much of the sausage or burger you're paying for by weight is just water...

Even the "quality" products that the bigger supermarkets make in store and not much better. Their meat content is mostly Fat. You should hang around in the morning when they're preparing the ingredients (is most shops then do this front of house), look closely at what is going into today's sausages.

Your quality pound of sausages is mostly Fat, Water, Rusk. And maybe 1 to 2 ounces of the 16 in your pound is actually meat...

The Aldi/Lidl stuff may not be any better quality of meat wise, but at least it's mostly the meat you think you're paying for, not water and rusk and other fillers.

Raskolnikov

When Lidl first opened in Ireland a few years back, I used to shop there especially for fruit and vegtables, jams, pizza's, tea, milk, bread, loo roll, cleaning stuff and a couple of other things. However, because fruit and veg were so cheap (relative to competitors), Lidl jacked the price up to the point where they were only marginally cheaper than Tesco. My shopping bill was still cheaper but I wasn't prepared to spend my time queuing in two different shops.

Having said that though, my auld fella loves the place and he hates shopping.

murphaph

Raskolnikov wrote:

Having said that though, my auld fella loves the place and he hates shopping.

A common enough sentiment. The stores aren't so large as to make the task seem daunting! Aisles are typically wider than most supermarkets too and the low height of the F&V and non-food run down the centre of the store gives you 'breathing space'.