Saddam to be hung-Verdict

Personally I don't agree with death penalties for anyone.

Saddam Hussein has been convicted of crimes against humanity and sentenced to death by hanging.

The former Iraqi president was convicted by a Baghdad court for his role in the killing of 148 people in the mainly Shia town of Dujail in 1982.

His half-brother Barzan al-Tikriti was also sentenced to death, as was Iraq's former chief judge Awad Hamed al-Bandar

Former Vice-President Taha Yassin Ramadan got life in jail and three others received 15 year prison terms.

Another co-defendant, Baath party official Mohammed Azawi Ali, was acquitted.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6117910.stm

sovtek

Especially in a kangaroo court and when some of the assholes that are ordering the occupation of his country should be sitting next to him.

MontgomeryClift

More barbarity.

BOHSBOHS

it was a sham trial anyway

american laws , american picked judiciary , evidence collected by americans
,saddam overthrown , captured and held prisoner by americans
"IRAQI" trial me asscheek

why concentrate on dujail? sure didnt the americans have a hand in all the others
they tried to asassinate him so he killed them ....

jail him for life if need be , execute him ?? and they want to make iraq a better place??
iraq is far worse off now than when saddam was leader .....
executing him will only make things worse if thats possible
ah sure they may be dying in their droves but at least they have their "FREEDOM"

Fanny Cradock

I don't agree with death sentences either - especially when you read such things as this:

'Sunnis in Tikrit marched through the city, chanting "We will avenge you Saddam."'

It would seem that you can get rid of the man but not his legacy. Possibly his death will add a little more fuel to the fire. Civil war's a comin'!

mike65

Its nice to see such a well-balanced thread about the greatest tyrant (after from Mao and Stalin) of the post WW2 era.

If the law says he will be sentenced to death then thats what will happen unless posters here would like to further interfere with Iraqi law?

Mike.

Fanny Cradock

Don't worry, sweeping statements such as "the greatest tyrant (after from Mao and Stalin) of the post WW2 era" will even it out

mike65

I would be inclined the let the Baghdad court do as it sees fit rather than come over all "Amnesty International" from the safety of your PC in Ireland.

Mike.

gandalf

Nice to see the verdict announced a few days before the US mid term elections. Co-incidence I think not.

All this will do is fuel the coming civil war. Its not about Justice its about barbarity and revenge. I would much prefer seeing this murderer (sactioned at one stage by his accusers) rotting in a cell for the rest of his life dying as a pathetic loner rather than being made a martyr.

mike65

Living icon or dead icon? I don't think there would be a any difference in the minds of those who adhere to his credo.

Mike.

Blackjack

gandalf wrote:

Nice to see the verdict announced a few days before the US mid term elections. Co-incidence I think not.

All this will do is fuel the coming civil war. Its not about Justice its about barbarity and revenge. I would much prefer seeing this murderer (sactioned at one stage by his accusers) rotting in a cell for the rest of his life dying as a pathetic loner rather than being made a martyr.

Wht Gandalf said.

Fanny Cradock

mike65 wrote:

come over all "Amnesty International" from the safety of your PC in Ireland.

Mike.

Nice

I never said that the Iraqi (puppet) court doesn't have a right to do what they like, or, for that matter, carry out their masters bidding. After all, it's their country and their funeral. Gandalf put it succinctly when he said it's about revenge. I don't see this helping Iraq become a safer place.

A Dub in Glasgo

mike65 wrote:

about the greatest tyrant (after from Mao and Stalin) of the post WW2 era.

Care to substantiate that?

As for the sentence, well it is Iraqi law (sic) therefore it must be correct. Public hanging with the body defiled?.. way to go to smooth into democracy by showing how vengance is back

Sponge Bob

mike65 wrote:

Its nice to see such a well-balanced thread about the greatest tyrant (after from Mao and Stalin) of the post WW2 era.

Not even then the greatest, Mobuto was worse but he was a US ally

aidan24326

gandalf wrote:

Nice to see the verdict announced a few days before the US mid term elections. Co-incidence I think not.

All this will do is fuel the coming civil war. Its not about Justice its about barbarity and revenge. I would much prefer seeing this murderer (sactioned at one stage by his accusers) rotting in a cell for the rest of his life dying as a pathetic loner rather than being made a martyr.

I agree. It shows the utter hypocrisy of the US government. He was their pal once upon a time when it suited them.

And Mike65, as bad as he was I'm not sure about him being the worst post-war tyrant. What about Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Robert Mugabe etc.

is_that_so

What other verdict was there ever going to be? He was prosecuted to the letter of the law and the maximum penalty will be applied. Invoking the usual "puppet" or "kangaroo" accusations because you don't like what the US has got up to in Iraq is not going to make it go away. In any trial he would have been found guilty as the evidence was overwhelming. Nevertheless he was entitled to due process. Their way of dealing with his guilt, which I don't necessarily agree with, is execution.
As for the coincidence, yes there may be some truth in that but the GOP are deluded if they think his guilt will bring them any great benefits. A lot of that damage is self-inflicted through their own domestic scandals.

mike65

Naturaly I hav'nt got a incontravertable proof he is the third worst but it would seem about right, okay maybe Kim Il-sung gets a place above him.

In no particular order

Mao
Pol-Pot
Stalin
Kim Il-sung
Kim Jong-il
Pinochet
Castro
Ayatollah Khomeini
Mobuto
Galtieri
Mugabe


Mike.

Guy:Incognito

aidan24326 wrote:

I agree. It shows the utter hypocrisy of the US government. He was their pal once upon a time when it suited them.

And Mike65, as bad as he was I'm not sure about him being the worst post-war tyrant. What about Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Robert Mugabe etc.

Sure they never should have interfered with what Hitler was at either, seeing as they all sat around the same table a few times.

Frederico

mike65 wrote:

Its nice to see such a well-balanced thread about the greatest tyrant (after from Mao and Stalin) of the post WW2 era.

If the law says he will be sentenced to death then thats what will happen unless posters here would like to further interfere with Iraqi law?

Mike.

I can just imagine all the war criminals in the white house slapping themselves on the back, this juuust might get them a few more votes in 2 days.

This is sending out a message to all tyrants around the world.. that includes you in Uzbekistan, whatever your name is.. that you must never become enemies with America or they will come and get you, friendly Tyrants goood, unfriendly Tyrants baaaaad.

mike65

Welcome to the real world everyone! It was ever thus.

Mike.

Dave!

Is this gonna be a public hanging? Should we expect to see him all over the internet in a few months? :rolleyes:

RedPlanet

mike65 wrote:

Its nice to see such a well-balanced thread about the greatest tyrant (after from Mao and Stalin) of the post WW2 era.
Mike.

Rubbish.
General Suharto of Indonesia was far and away a bigger tyrant than the little Saddam ever could have hoped to become.
Yet Suharto was praised by the US and they continued selling him weapons and training his army throughout his reign.
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2749
Here's another good article:
"Good and Bad Genocide"
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1433

/ Reactionary mode...



I know I know,the U.S is the great Satan yawn yawn Zzzzzzz

Pack in yer yankie jobs(those of you that have them) then! It's true, this country depends on 10's of thousands of U.S backed jobs as do the indirect anciliary services.

Put this high principle where the mouth is

They are after all the great Satan.

Those of us that are newly unemployed can bring our principle out to Africa and end the more significant numbers wise murdering injustices there, that we hear so little talk of on this board...

/ End Reactionary mode

mr_disc

ok sadam is a bad egg, however the death penalty in this day in age should be done away with... just lock the man up for the rest of his days .

SkepticOne

In the interests of international law if not justice it would have been better if he had been tried in an international tribunal. There would be less complaints by some of "kangaroo courts" and such like. Of course, in that case he would not then face the rope, a fate to which he sent many thousands.

FlutterinBantam

Hang 'im up nice an quick like ...

ker -chukk

Are we there yet,,are we there yet

Over and out

Memnoch

what a joke, rather than this show sham trial the US could have just summarily executed him when they captured him and it would have been no different.

He should have been tried in the international criminal court, off course the american's and all of saddam's former allies crimes would also have come to light in a fair and open court and we can't have that now can we?

Bush is a far worse war criminal than Saddam ever was, but then as we all know this show trial wasn't about justice for iraqi's. True justice will only come when bush blair and their cronies rot in jail for the rest of their lives but that day will never come.

mike65

Tristrame you're so right about Africa threads but no-one cares about that continent as the USA has little involvment when compared to middle-east.

Its hard to inspire any outrage that does'nt involve Dubya and US foreign policy which is a shame.

RedPlanet you are right about Suharto.

Mike.

HoldenCaulfeild

I wonder when Bush, Rumsfeld, Rice, Cheny, Blair, Olmert etc and their corprate masters will be hung????

biko

The americans have learned nothing from the brits.
Killing prisoners only make them martyrs.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

yeah, you'd thihk christians more than anyone would have that lesson learned.

Duffman

From the Irish Times:

'Britain said the verdict was the "ultimate expression" of Iraqi sovereignty'.

They should be kicked out of the Council of Europe and the EU. Disgraceful.

Wacker

I am against the death penalty, but I think Saddam would deserve it as much as any man could. The world will be a better place for his departure.

meepins

mike65 wrote:

Its nice to see such a well-balanced thread about the greatest tyrant (after from Mao and Stalin) of the post WW2 era.

If the law says he will be sentenced to death then thats what will happen unless posters here would like to further interfere with Iraqi law?

Mike.

Well it would be nice to see him testify against his accomplices in the US government first.

Villain

Eye for an Eye, well actually it's probably nearly a millions eyes for one here, Saddam was involved in the murder of many many kurds and others. Public hanging is too good for him imo a public stoning would be much better.

The US may have many flaws but allowing Saddam to get the death penalty isn't one.

Sponge Bob

irish1 wrote:

Eye for an Eye, well actually it's probably nearly a millions eyes for one here, Saddam was involved in the murder of many many kurds any others.

Saddam was a US 'asset' in the Middle East all the while he was killing Kurds and Iranians . He caused the death of anywhere up to 1.2 million people between the Al Anfal campaign ( more here ) against the Kurds and the first gulf war...against the Iranians..... both campaigns ran during the 1980s. After all it was he who invaded Iran , at a minimum 600,000 dead in those two concurrent wars. He should have been tried and hung for the Iran war alone . Rumsfeld would have been a defence witness there.

The US may have many flaws but allowing Saddam to get the death penalty isn't one.

Such as the fact that the US never stopped or tried to stop Al Anfal and helped to supply chemical weapons to Saddam for years .

As long as Saddam was banging away at Iran and weakening Iran the US never gave a damn as long as he paid cash.

Blackjack

QFT Spongebob.

Oddly enough, the US interest in supporting Saddam during the Iraq-Iran conflict was to protect Saudi Arabia. The Saudi's were afraid of what would happen (likely aggression) should Iran be successful in conflict against Iraq, hence the US interest.

Guess what the Saudi's have lots of in the ways of natural resources.

Hobbes

mike65 wrote:

Living icon or dead icon? I don't think there would be a any difference in the minds of those who adhere to his credo.

Mike.

Martyrs tend to make a difference.

gandalf

Hobbes wrote:

Martyrs tend to make a difference.

Yep the 1916 leaders went from traitors to heroes in the eyes of the public by being turning in martyrs by the English.

mike65

Saddam is already a 'hero' to his flock. I'm not buying the distinction this time.

Mike.

Sponge Bob

mike65 wrote:

Saddam is already a 'hero' to his flock. I'm not buying the distinction this time.

In that case the yanks should keep him alive until AFTER they leave and then his execution is a sovereign matter for a sovereign state . It would be shortsighted of them to assist in making the scumbag a martyr .

Sir Nicolae Ceausescu , a notorious scumbag but hardly as genocidal as Saddam, and was lynched in 1989 by the Romanians themselves after a very very quick showtrial ( 30 mins for the trial and then he was shot straight away ) and no defence lawyer was ever appointed. He was shot before any appeal could be mounted of course.

I never heard any protest from the UK where he was a Knight of the realm.

I never heard any murmurs of disquiet from his many many friends in the west , especially those who loudly valued freedom and democracy and lauded Sir Nicolae for his upstandingness in those respects .

And Sir Nicolae was a friend of the west , unlike Saddam since he invaded Kuwait.

aidan24326

Tristrame wrote:

/ Reactionary mode...



I know I know,the U.S is the great Satan yawn yawn Zzzzzzz

Pack in yer yankie jobs(those of you that have them) then! It's true, this country depends on 10's of thousands of U.S backed jobs as do the indirect anciliary services.

Put this high principle where the mouth is

They are after all the great Satan.

Those of us that are newly unemployed can bring our principle out to Africa and end the more significant numbers wise murdering injustices there, that we hear so little talk of on this board...

/ End Reactionary mode

No-one ever said the US as a whole is 'the great satan'. It's those who patrol the corridors of power in America that people have a problem with.

Manic Moran

The majority of the Sunni groups, including Ba'athists, have distanced themselves from Saddam, including releasing public statements on the issue. I'm not of the opinion that his execution is going to make things any worse.

Is the timing convenient? Possibly. Is it a show trial? Maybe. Is the verdict wrong? I don't think so. In this case, political expediency and justice seem to meet.

NTM

Hobbes

mike65 wrote:

Saddam is already a 'hero' to his flock. I'm not buying the distinction this time.

However his flock as it where are very small. The majority of fighting going on Iraq is because of the US occupation of Iraq.

Thats not to say that when or if the US pull out the violence will magically stop, but giving people a martyr rarely helps.

But put it in perspective. He is only being hung for the deaths of 148 people. I'm pretty sure he has killed many more then that, but what sort of justice will Iraqis want then from the death of its population by US troops?

Not that the US government is ever going to allow anyone to try US troops,

Rb

Memnoch wrote:

what a joke, rather than this show sham trial the US could have just summarily executed him when they captured him and it would have been no different.

He should have been tried in the international criminal court, off course the american's and all of saddam's former allies crimes would also have come to light in a fair and open court and we can't have that now can we?

Bush is a far worse war criminal than Saddam ever was, but then as we all know this show trial wasn't about justice for iraqi's. True justice will only come when bush blair and their cronies rot in jail for the rest of their lives but that day will never come.

I agree. The trial was an conveniently timed sham, one can only hope it won't affect the outcome of the upcoming events. Unfortunately it may though.

HoldenCaulfeild wrote:

I wonder when Bush, Rumsfeld, Rice, Cheny, Blair, Olmert etc and their corprate masters will be hung????

lol, don't get your hopes up. Unfortunate though, really is. Nothing would make me happier than to turn on the news tomorrow and see that Bush, Blair & co have been tried for their crimes. Whether the day will ever come, doubtful, but it certainly would be a great day.

Hussein certainly deserved to be tried and punished, but as has already been said in this thread (and which I fully agree with), the death penalty is not the right punishment.

Hobbes wrote:

Not that the US government is ever going to allow anyone to try US troops

You're right there Ted.

Moriarty

rb_ie wrote:

I agree. The trial was an conveniently timed sham, one can only hope it won't affect the outcome of the upcoming events. Unfortunately it may though.

Can you show me how it was a sham, exactly?

rb_ie wrote:

lol, don't get your hopes up. Unfortunate though, really is. Nothing would make me happier than to turn on the news tomorrow and see that Bush, Blair & co have been tried for their crimes. Whether the day will ever come, doubtful, but it certainly would be a great day.

Which crimes are those then?

rb_ie wrote:

Hussein certainly deserved to be tried and punished, but as has already been said in this thread (and which I fully agree with), the death penalty is not the right punishment.

Could you tell me where the line is when telling other countries how to conduct themselves when they're doing something you don't agree with?

Hobbes wrote:

Not that the US government is ever going to allow anyone to try US troops

There's a good reason for that. As demonstrated by a number of posters in this thread.

lostexpectation

I lvoe that phrase, its not saddam to be hung but 'hung until dead'


tabliod headline winner...

SADDAMNED TO HELL

Victor

mike65 wrote:

In no particular order
Mao
Pol-Pot
Stalin
Kim Il-sung
Kim Jong-il
Pinochet
Castro
Ayatollah Khomeini
Mobuto
Galtieri
Mugabe
Mike.

SO how many has this Mike chap killed? But odd that you mention Khomeini, seeing as his actions, some quite dispicable, were as a reaction to Saddam.

Memnoch wrote:

Bush is a far worse war criminal than Saddam ever was

No. Bush is bad, but not quite that bad.

Blackjack wrote:

Oddly enough, the US interest in supporting Saddam during the Iraq-Iran conflict was to protect Saudi Arabia.

Not really. They were more more interested in revenge for the Embassy kidnappings and take Iran down a few notches.

Moriarty wrote:

rb_ie wrote:

lol, don't get your hopes up. Unfortunate though, really is. Nothing would make me happier than to turn on the news tomorrow and see that Bush, Blair & co have been tried for their crimes. Whether the day will ever come, doubtful, but it certainly would be a great day.

Which crimes are those then?

Starting wars is a crime. They started this war.

Moriarty

Victor wrote:

Starting wars is a crime. They started this war.

It's not always a crime. It's not always wrong either.

Flex

Just a quick question, why is it so many people are opposed to capital punishment? Especially a case like this where the accused is guilty beyond doubt for committing such crimes?

Wacker

Flex wrote:

Just a quick question, why is it so many people are opposed to capital punishment? Especially a case like this where the accused is guilty beyond doubt for committing such crimes?

I think capital punishment is more about revenge than justice. The state should be above such things.
However, might I suggest you start a new thread for this discussion rather than hijack this one?