english reg car drivers, watch out!

Captain Slow IRL

I just bought my new baby (98 bmw 318is, only 49k on clock!!) on sunday - wasn't planning on clearing it for a month or two cause I don't have total vrt cost saved up yet:o Rang my insurance brokers to send me out insurance form in case I get stopped by an gardai - she tells me that they'll only insure me for a couple of days because of the english plates on the car. I was kinda p*ssed off at this because I bought my last car from england as well, drove it on english plates for 2 months and they handed me a cert without any fuss.

I spend tuesday and yesterday in a bad mood, because I had to come up with just over €2k to make my car Irish, and imo english reg cars shouldn't affect your premium (my car just passed it's mot - perfectly roadworthy)
but thanks to new E.U. (or Irish) legislation, Irish insurers will only insure Irish registered cars - I rang another broker who confirmed this.

I've been driving my car around normally; I'm covered for the next few days and am not really worried about gardai stopping me. Leaving work to go to dinner today, I pulled out casually and drove down the road - then noticed a shiny '06 black mondeo pulled into the side of the road. A man in a high viz jacket with "CUSTOMS" declared on it, crossed the road in front of me to go over to an english reg 5 series bmw and talk to the driver - as I got closer to the customs officer, he noticed the english reg on the car and started staring at me, I was sh*tting a brick he was gonna stop me (I found out later customs officer can't stop you, they have to approach you when the car is at a standstill) But he just kept on staring and I just kept on driving - when I got out of his sight, I put the foot to the floor to make my escape! I had my dinner then had to go over town to visit the credit union (to sort out aforementioned vrt funds) - just my luck, I got a parking spot right outside the front door of the C.U. - things were starting to look brighter! Went in and did my business, came out and sat into my car. I looked out onto the road and blocking me in was the nice shiny black mondeo, 2 guys staring at me from the front of it. The guy in the passenger seat got out and came over to me while the driver drove on a bit to pull the car in. Asked to see the registration papers so I showed him the docket - he took it and when he realised I only had the car 4 days, he was pretty sound to me. It would have been a pleasant situation if he wasn't wearing his big hi-viz jacket and talking to ME in the middle of town while people walked by thinking it was the cops who stopped me! Anyway, he filled out a form for me - which will protect me from other customs officers or gardai if I am stopped again; the normal grace period they give is 10 days but he gave me til the end of the month (I was impressed with this)

I was still a little shaken after this though; I was afraid I'd meet some by-the-book w*nker who'd just take it off me so it can sit in their garage, daily adding on to the bill I would have to fork out to get it back.
I pulled out and drove up around the corner (at the post-office, towards lidl - for those who know Ballina), the customs boys pulled out after me and just as I got to the traffic lights, I looked in my mirror to see them driving into the lidl carpark to collar some other (poor) unsuspecting person. This is a common occurance lately (locally) and the guys who caught me seemed to be just spinning around looking for foreign cars.

For those of you who are planning on buying an english import soon, make sure you have the money to include the cost of vrt as well - I hadn't realised how tight things had gotten in the 12 months since I last owned an english reg car and if I hadn't come up with the money I'd be fecked - customs with their hands out and insurance companies with their noses turned upwards - beware!!

Wishbone Ash

Good to see that our Customs Officials are doing a good job. Why should the honest tax payer have to fund the people who think that it's OK to avoid paying the relevant duties?

Esel

land9 wrote:

I found out later customs officer can't stop you, they have to approach you when the car is at a standstill

Not sure if this is the case.

Our man in Havana

They have no powers to stop moving traffic. Only the Gardai can do this.

sudzs

Bond-007 wrote:

They have no powers to stop moving traffic. Only the Gardai can do this.

Lolly-Pop Ladies/Gents and people in charge of animals aswell!

jayok

Lolly-Pop Ladies/Gents and people in charge of animals aswell!

Maybe we should consider issuing Customs with some cows?

Larry David

land9 wrote:

make sure you have the money to include the cost of vrt as well

Eh - you're suppossed to, numbnuts. Your VRT is suppossed to be paid on the next working day after brining the car into the country. Oh, and AXA gave me 1 month on my UK reg - this was in June.

Tipsy Mac

By law you are supposed to have the car presented to the VRT Office the next working day after the car is imported into the country. That's the law, sh*t and all that it might be. Until us stupid mofo gombeen Irish people actually make VRT an election issue thats the way it always will be.

You must register your car and pay VRT by the end of the next working day following its arrival into Ireland. You must bring it to a Revenue Vehicle Registration Office (VRO) not later than the next working day following its arrival in Ireland. If the vehicle is new, you should complete a Declaration for Registration (Form VRT 3) and present it with the vehicle registration document or Certificate of Permanent Export. If the new vehicle is second-hand, you should complete a Declaration for Registration (Form VRT 4). If the vehicle is a motorcycle, you should complete a Declaration for Registration (Form VRT 5).

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/importing_car_into_ireland.html?search=vrt

ondafly

I'm delighted to hear they are finally doing this, only hope they start on some of the non-irish driving foriegn registered cars for the last year, and thus avoiding roadtax et al.

R.O.R

There was an article in the local rag in Drogheda recently about the Gardai rounding up 30-40 un-VRT'd cars over a weekend and impounding them all.

Good to see!

MarkR

Happened to a guy in work here in limerick last week, they came to the reception of the office looking for the owner of the car.

ballinloughan

The customs where outside an industrial estate in Limerick yesterday afternoon for a couple of hours .. good to see it.

2 Espressi

Collected my car from Dublin Port on Hallowe'en, Jap import, so no plates on it at all. Went to the VRO in Limerick on Wednesday, queued for half an hour, it turns out my model car (it's a 97 Golf GLI estate) isn't listed, she'll have to check with Rosslare to get a code so she can tell me what it'll cost. She takes my VRT4 form and my phone number, and tells me she will call back. I'm still waiting. So I've been driving around plateless for the last couple of days with the chassis number written across my windscreen. Passed the Customs Land Rover a couple of times since, I hope they'll believe my story! Luckily I was able to insure the car on the chassis number, though they weren't too happy about it at the time.

mikedragon32

jayok wrote:

Maybe we should consider issuing Customs with some cows?

I used to work for revenue and can vouch for the fact that Customs already have a lot of cows!

milltown

The OP sounds exactly like any number of delinquent chancers that you'll find begging for mercy in a district court on any day.

"But Judge, I was going to tax and insure the car when I get the money from me claim against Dublin Bus. We have to use the car to drive Assumpta to majorettes but."

I think you're very lucky they were so lenient. Another officer would have just had the car off you there and then.

sweeneytodd

Does anyone know what is the legal position with Auto Traders is with regard to imports. It's just that I've often seen UK registered vehicles on forecourts for months before being sold. I guess the trader will only vrt the car once he sells it - is this legal ? The vrt amount could have altered considerably since the date the vehicle entered the country - interesting !!

peasant

Whoah, whoah ....scum? delinquent chancer?

Hold your horses there ...

I would normally plant myself firmly in the corner of "law abiding citizen" and I am glad to see that there is a clampdown on foreign reg cars.

But let's do a quick reality check here ...who is clamping what down ? Is it the gardai checking that every car is properly insured so that if they crash into a law abiding citizen said citizen will get their money?

No ...it's customs officers making sure that the governement (the same governement that just granted itself yet another ten percent pay rise) gets its VRT.

The very same VRT that has been branded illegal by the EU for years. The same VRT that basically blocks every law obiding citizen from availing of the free european market when it comes to buying a car (new or second hand).

I do not condone VRT and road tax evasion ...but somehow I can't really blame people for trying.

Macy

Apparently Customs accompanied by the Cops were doing checks in the Leopardstown Race Course area this morning. Start of a clamp down? Not before time...

gyppo

I'm with Wishbone on this one - its a pity they didnt take the car off this sap, who posts here thinking he's hard done by:eek:

I'm not a lover of VRT either, but if I wanted to import a uk car, I'd ensure I had the money there and then to pay the VRT on it. Not next week, next month, or next year.

I know of a case where a person imported a lancer evo, and drove around in it for almost a year before running into the customs. During which time, the omsp of the car was reducing, thus reducing the amount of VRT.
Maybe this may have been the MO of the OP also?

Bond-007

Bond-007 wrote:

They have no powers to stop moving traffic. Only the Gardai can do this.

Where did you get that tripe. Customs stop traffic all the time.

Customs run check points for green diesel in cars and such.

TheWaterboy

they run checkes for green diesel but can only do this when the gardai are with them. Customs cant stop you without having a garda present

TheWaterboy

TheWaterboy wrote:

they run checkes for green diesel but can only do this when the gardai are with them. Customs cant stop you without having a garda present

Even if this is true, which I personally have witnessed it is not, what difference does it make?

Carb

ronoc wrote:

Even if this is true, which I personally have witnessed it is not, what difference does it make?

Have to agree. I've seen the customs stopping traffic on several occasions to check diesel, and not a guard to be seen.

Mc-BigE

ondafly wrote:

I'm delighted to hear they are finally doing this, only hope they start on some of the non-Irish driving foreign registered cars for the last year, and thus avoiding roadtax et al.

You've hit the nail on the head!, which is more dangerous, a few 1000's UK Reg cars that have probably been looked after better then their Irish cousins and majority of them are less then 4 year old BMW/AUDI/MERC's and most of them will have passed MOT's /UK road tax remaining and been Insured by an Irish Driver.

Compare this to an Eastern European reg. car: There has to be more of those on the road here than UK reg car. Most are 16 year old BMW/AUDI/MERC. The owner probably hasn't been home for 1 or 2 years by now which means no Road Tax/ NCT equiv. has been done. And who knows if the car is insured?



Customs/Gardai should be stopping these cars also, but i suspect that there's not enough money in it for them, because those cars will be VRT exempt. :mad:

Macy

Mc-BigE wrote:

Customs/Gardai should be stopping these cars also, but i suspect that there's not enough money in it for them, because those cars will be VRT exempt. :mad:

I would've thought they'd be stopping all non-Republic registered cars. They have to apply to have them exempt and they should still be on Irish plates if here permenantly. It's only because there's not too many on boards chancing their arm with Latvian plates that we're only hearing about UK reg's.

Fratton Fred

Is it legal for the Irish Government to impose an import duty on something bought within the EEC? I would argue that it is not.

I moved over from England two months ago and have not yet re-registered my car, which I have owned for three years so it would be VRT exempt. However, when I asked the revenue people about it, they were not interested. They asked if I am a permanent resident, which I may or may not be we haven't decided yet, so they couldn't care less if I re-registered it. Probably because there is no money in it for them.

Anan1

Fratton Fred wrote:

Is it legal for the Irish Government to impose an import duty on something bought within the EEC? I would argue that it is not.

It's not an import duty, it's a registration tax. And it's not the EEC, it's the EU.;)

Guy:Incognito

Screw any revenue thats gained from it. The thing I'm concerned about is accountabliity. What happens if someone driving around on a foreign plate runs someone over in a hit and run? Even if the gards get a reg number off a witness, they have no way of tracking the person down.

There is nowhere in Ireland that is more than 6 - 8 hrs drive from anywhere else. So Insurance companies should be able to insure a car for no more than 1 or maybe 2 (to allow you to drive it back from england) days.

Fratton Fred

Stekelly wrote:

Screw any revenue thats gained from it. The thing I'm concerned about is accountabliity. What happens if someone driving around on a foreign plate runs someone over in a hit and run? Even if the gards get a reg number off a witness, they have no way of tracking the person down.

There is nowhere in Ireland that is more than 6 - 8 hrs drive from anywhere else. So Insurance companies should be able to insure a car for no more than 1 or maybe 2 (to allow you to drive it back from england) days.

I see your point, but the same applies to a driver from France/Spain/Holland over here on holiday as well. In fact it would apply anywhere in Europe.

I parked on double yellow lines the other evening while I nipped into a shop. I hate doing that becasue lines are there for a reason, but how would they catch up with me? can they catch up with me? it's not something I want to risk as I believe in abiding by the law, but the posibility is still there.

ruane

If you buy a car abroad for your own personal or business use, then you must present yourself and the car to a Vehicle Registration Office the next working day after your return to Ireland and pay VRT. Your Registration plates must be displayed on the vehicle within 3 days of paying VRT. After buying a car I usually drive to Holyhead and get the night ferry home with all the trucks. I've my VRT paid and the plates up by lunchtime on the day of return. As soon as you tax the car (next day), the registration book is sent out to you (5days). Take that straight to your local NCT centre and have the car entered onto their computers. The next day you can book your NCT. In short, within 2-3 weeks after import, you can have an Irish Reg, Plates & NCT done and everything else you need to sell it, for about €3,000 cheaper than buying the same car here.

If you buy cars abroad as a dealer, you can register as a dealer with revenue, get a TAN (trader account number) and defer VRT payments until the car is sold. Note: your revenue account must at all times hold sufficient funds to pay VRT on all your cars. So technically this is not dodging payment, as its already paid, but the car will not actually be registered until sold to the new owner. The new owner can then register the car in whatever county they want. The dealer will do all the legwork and hand over the car with Irish Plates - Registration can be done instantly by the dealer as Revenue already have the dealer's money. It's simple enough.

jimmycrackcorm

What if one were to put on false Latvian plates on an UK car even if it was right hand drive (seen a few RHD foreighn reg cars here). there's likely SFA that the Gardai no the customs could do.

Anan1

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

What if one were to put on false Latvian plates on an UK car even if it was right hand drive (seen a few RHD foreighn reg cars here). there's likely SFA that the Gardai no the customs could do.

I don't get you? They can take the car if it's not registered here.

Captain Slow IRL

did I say I wasn't going to pay vrt at all? - I spent slightly over my budget and couldn't immediately pay vrt - I need a car to get to work and had been relying on a coworker for a few weeks which put him out of his way, which I didn't like doing.

I never said I was hard done by gyppo, this was a word of warning to those in a similiar situation to me - what's the title of the post??

I'm glad to see such outstanding citizens like milltown, gyppo and larry david visiting the forum to lend their opinion for a better Ireland - we should all take a leaf out of their books:rolleyes:

"Delinquint chancer", "scum"!? - thanks, ya made my day:D

DublinWriter

TheWaterboy wrote:

they run checkes for green diesel but can only do this when the gardai are with them. Customs cant stop you without having a garda present

True, you have to be stationery, hence the OP's experience.

But customs do have more powers than the guards in certain circumstances - for example they can knock on your door and enter and search your premesis without requiring a warrant.

gyppo

land9 wrote:

did I say I wasn't going to pay vrt at all? - I spent slightly over my budget and couldn't immediately pay vrt - I need a car to get to work and had been relying on a coworker for a few weeks which put him out of his way, which I didn't like doing.

Well I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but you must immediately pay VRT - the next working day after the car enters the country - thats the law, whether you agree with it or not.

land9 wrote:

I never said I was hard done by gyppo, this was a word of warning to those in a similiar situation to me - what's the title of the post??

land9 wrote:

I was kinda p*ssed off at this because I bought my last car from england as well, drove it on english plates for 2 months and they handed me a cert without any fuss.

Had you overspent your budget that time as well?

land9 wrote:

I spend tuesday and yesterday in a bad mood, because I had to come up with just over €2k to make my car Irish

Thats awful! Sounds to me like you were hard done by.

land9 wrote:

I'm glad to see such outstanding citizens like milltown, gyppo and larry david visiting the forum to lend their opinion for a better Ireland - we should all take a leaf out of their books:rolleyes:

"Delinquint chancer", "scum"!? - thanks, ya made my day:D

You forgot "Sap" - that was the term I used.:D

Esel

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

What if one were to put on false Latvian plates on an UK car even if it was right hand drive (seen a few RHD foreighn reg cars here). there's likely SFA that the Gardai no the customs could do.

Here'sa good false Latvian reg for your UK RHD car: NIC KME (12 stars)

zilog_jones

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

...seen a few RHD foreighn reg cars here...

Probably on Russian plates - they like their Japanese imports too over there, and I've seen a Toyota Town Ace or something like that on Russian plates here before.

Unless you were seeing cars from Isle of Man, Jersey or Guernsey - they have plates different to the UK but are all RHD.

lassykk

i can't believe the reaction you have had to your post Land9.

All you were doing was giving a friendly warning to other UK importers about the potential pitfalls of not having the entire amount of money to pay VRT.

C'mon lets look at this in perspective. The government made €930m in VRT charges on cars alone in 2004. This tax is considered in essence illegal by the EU (Google Search: Lazlo Kovacs & VRT - Trawl through some nice long EU proposals if you don't believe me) who want to introduce an emissions based tax on cars instead of VRT. The government also have the right to increase the Open Market Selling Price on cars if there is a significant increase in the number of a specific model being imported to the country which isn't exactly fair either IMO.

So what harm is Land9 doing bringing a car in at a economical price that is available from the over taxed Irish car prices and not paying the VRT for a couple of months. Does the person who called him scum realise what scum actually is

Scum is a drug dealer, a rapist, a murderer. Not someone who avoids paying a minor tax charge on a car for a short period.

Its not even as if he was trying to evade it altogether by buying plates and a log book from a dodgy car breakers and not paying VRT at all. Give the guy a break.

Wishbone Ash

lassykk wrote:

This post has been deleted.

So you consider it OK to evade a tax that you don't like paying? :rolleyes:

I must contact my employer and tell them that I don't like paying income tax and wish to discontinue doing so. :rolleyes: Or if I buy something in a shop only to discover that I don't have enought to pay the VAT, the shopkeeper is going to say it's allright? :rolleyes:

Mc-BigE

Ok, I see your point, but lets put it another way, what if you just bought a brand new BMW X5 with total price tag of say 100,000euro incl VRT/VAT, then the next day you drive it home and your next door neighbour has exactly the same car with UK reg bought for 40,000 Stg. I'd say you'd be pretty pi$$ed off that you had to pay all that tax and your next door neighbour didn't.

I wonder how many days it would take you to ring your local VRO office and report him?

peasant

Mc-BigE wrote:

Ok, I see your point, but lets put it another way, what if you just bought a brand new BMW X5 with total price tag of say 100,000euro incl VRT/VAT, then the next day you drive it home and your next door neighbour has exactly the same car with UK reg bought for 40,000 Stg. I'd say you'd be pretty pi$$ed off that you had to pay all that tax and your next door neighbour didn't.

I wonder how many days it would take you to ring your local VRO office and report him?

By buying a 100k car as pointless as the MX5 and stuffing the guts of 40k down the governements insatiable throat you've only proven that you have more money than sense.
No matter how quickly you report your neighbour ... it still doesn't change that

Mc-BigE

peasant wrote:

By buying a 100k car as pointless as the MX5 and stuffing the guts of 40k down the governements insatiable throat you've only proven that you have more money than sense.
No matter how quickly you report your neighbour ... it still doesn't change that

If I had 100K I certainly wouldn't be rushing out and buying a new X5, but somebody will, that same person probably pays he's income tax, house stamp duty, vat on everything he buys, and maybe even a TV licence .

He will bitch and moan about it until the cows come home, but what else can he do?, if you want to live in this country you have to pay these OTT taxes, if you don't either live somewhere else, or go to jail:D

peasant

theres one point though ...

neither VAT nor stamp duty nor TV licences are considered dodgy to plain illegal under EU laws.

Mc-BigE

peasant wrote:

theres one point though ...

neither VAT nor stamp duty nor TV licences are considered dodgy to plain illegal under EU laws.

I would consider 9% stamp duty on a second hand house valued 635,000 and over very dodgy:D (not to mention the 635,000 price tag in the first place!)

If VRT is "plain illegal under EU laws", than why haven't the EU stopped the Irish Government from charging VRT by now?, because I suspect the can't, which means it will carry on, if the EU can't stop it, what chance have the Irish people? A general election? No. because the opposition will also want the money.

Maybe we should all drive around in Bangers until the VRT is dropped;)

Gurgle

land9 wrote:

wasn't planning on clearing it for a month or two cause I don't have total vrt cost saved up yet....
This is a common occurance lately (locally) and the guys who caught me seemed to be just spinning around looking for foreign cars.

Oh dear, you're illegally driving a foreign registered car and planned to evade 'a month or two' worth or road tax, and they're actually enforcing the law?
The bastards!:rolleyes:

lassykk

Ok firstly Wishbone Ash:

I said avoid tax not evade. Tink there mite be a difference btween the words. land9 never said at any point that he was not going to pay the tax merely that he was deferring it for a while. What a terrible, terrible person that makes him!!!

Mc-BigE I'm so glad i'm not your neighbour. I can't belive you would ring and report someone about something like this. I wouldn't in a million years ring and report someone over VRT. What sort of person does that?? My neighbour would be gonna pay the VRT eventually and what difference does it make to me or the Government if its delayed until such time as they can afford it. Hardly a criminal mastermind at work. If he bought plates from a breakers off a crashed but not an insurance write off X5 to evade (Wishbone Ash: Note the usage of the word) then i wouldn't be as happy but thats not the issue

peasant

Mc-BigE wrote:

Maybe we should all drive around in Bangers until the VRT is dropped;)

I am ....:D


( no pasaran, viva la revolucion and all that ...:p )

Anan1

Mc-BigE wrote:

If VRT is "plain illegal under EU laws", than why haven't the EU stopped the Irish Government from charging VRT by now?, because I suspect the can't, which means it will carry on, if the EU can't stop it, what chance have the Irish people? A general election? No. because the opposition will also want the money.

Maybe we should all drive around in Bangers until the VRT is dropped;)

Or perhaps the Irish people would rather pay VRT than pay the same tax in another form. Personally, I have no problem with current rates of VRT. Or stamp duty, for that matter.

Anan1

lassykk wrote:

This post has been deleted.

The difference it makes is that your neighbour would be illegally in possession of our government's money. In the meantime (if you follow me) our government would not.

Mc-BigE

lassykk wrote:

This post has been deleted.

I never said that, but as your asking, i'd be pretty pi$$ed off about it, but i shouldn't have to do the custom's job for them!

Anyway i think this discussion is probably pointless because the Insurance companies are already clamping down on Irish residents insuring UK cars in Ireland for long periods of time.

Unless you think its ok to drive around without insurance that everybody else has to/should pay;)

gyppo

lassykk wrote:

This post has been deleted.

As you say, he was merely deferring it for a while. After all, the poor thing, he was only after buying a BMW - how could he be expected to have the money to pay the VRT as well??:eek:

The VRT he would pay is a percentage of the Open Market Selling Price (OMSP). The OMSP reduces as the car gets older; therefore the VRT reduces as the car gets older. So, the longer the VRT issue is put on the long finger, the less VRT you have to pay - sharp practice? - I think so.