ITV Greed?

watty

According to R4 news:
ITV wish to reduce Childrens' programming to 2 hrs a week.

This is dismays counsumer and childerns groups who feel children are geting too much import US TV already with the wrong attitudes and missing British cultural values and traditions.

This would of course affect Irish children too.

BuffyBot

It's hardly surprising really, with the explosion in kids channels, and they fact that they operate the CITV channel, specifically for kids. A couple of hours in the afternoon on the main channel is becoming more of an anachronism.

I'd imagine it'll be gone totally by the time of the digital switchover comes, when all UK households will be receiving digital TV, based on the fact they are providing a dedicated channel. They also want to cut the religious programming obligation sections of their licenses.

leeroybrown

They're a commercial broadcasting group. Their decisions are supposed to be driven by financial gain.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Two hours of home produced programs a week would be far more than RTE offer Irish kids

watty

I didn't here anywhere that this was specifically home produced TV. Sounded like TOTAL TV output!

flogen

2hrs a week? jesus.
It'd make some sense (and I'd possibly be supportive of the idea, although not to that extent) if the digital switchover was complete; in other words if all houses had access to cITV and CBBC... that said I wouldn't support an end to this kind of TV on the main channel, just like I wouldn't like to see the BBC end their news broadcasts on BBC One just because everyone has News 24.

I wonder if RTE will try similar when they launch their childrens channel (which RTE 2 is already effectively from first thing in the morning until 6PM)... or maybe they'll push more of the teen-friendly shows and have a dedicated kids channel on the side... given that RTE 2 is trying to be young and hip I can't see them replacing kids shows with Dr. Phil-esque programming.

ethernet

Speaking of greed, did you read on Sky News Active that Channel 4 fear Google?

Channel 4 claims that Google will get more advertising revenue that they will [in the region of around £100m]. Channel 4 wants to take preventative measures to protect advertising, pinning its 'high-quality', home-made programming on this revenue.

See: http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30400-13550058,00.html.

Elmo

I don't know if this could be considered Greed, they have after all got a Children's Channel.

ITV wish to reduce Childrens' programming to 2 hrs a week.

Is this on ITV 1 in general or British Produced Children's TV on CITV?

RTE Produce around 2hrs of Childrens TV a day and more when you include presentation. RTE has had a dedicated Childrens service long before ITV or The BBC.

This is dismays counsumer and childerns groups who feel children are geting too much import US TV already with the wrong attitudes and missing British cultural values and traditions.

This would of course affect Irish children too.

And their British Values? Rule Britannia, Britannia Rule the World da da da di da dum de dum dumb.

JohnC.

watty wrote:

I didn't here anywhere that this was specifically home produced TV. Sounded like TOTAL TV output!

Yeah. I'm sure they announced a few weeks ago that they want to completely cut all their own production of kids stuff.

BuffyBot

They've sold off/intending to sell their kids production arm. However, that doesn't mean their cutting it, they'll just comission it from outsider

Richard

Elmo wrote:

I don't know if this could be considered Greed, they have after all got a Children's Channel.

They can get more ad revenue by showing something else. It is true that they have the CITV channel, but not all children have multichannel TV.

And their British Values? Rule Britannia, Britannia Rule the World da da da di da dum de dum dumb.

Rules the Waves, actually - though I think by this they mean instilling morals etc in children, and to a certain extent keeping culture alive, producing informative programmes, not just imported U.S. entertainment.

I suppose you could say similar things about UK TV's effects on Irish children, but I'll leave that can of worms for now...

Elmo

though I think by this they mean instilling morals etc in children, and to a certain extent keeping culture alive, producing informative programmes, not just imported U.S. entertainment.

American's have no morals? Surely Bear in the big blue house would disagree? Elmo would too

watty

Which would you rather have Dr Who & Worzel Gummidge or Typical US kids shows values?

Like it or not Ireland has more in common with Britain than USA values. Especially in the Pale.

watty

The Americans with the morals are almost scarier...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Elmo wrote:

And their British Values? Rule Britannia, Britannia Rule the World da da da di da dum de dum dumb.

Ah, we're turning it into one of THOSE discussions are we (imho, you need to be a bit more subtle about the hijacking though) or have you been watching too much Wind That Shakes The Barley/Michael Collins/V for Vandetta...?

Elmo

Ah, we're turning it into one of THOSE discussions are we (imho, you need to be a bit more subtle about the hijacking though) or have you been watching too much Wind That Shakes The Barley/Michael Collins/V for Vandetta...?

The OP point out that British Values where being demoted by American TV and continued to point out that we too should be worried as CITV stops making Children's TV. IMO British TV has less morals then American TV, what the British get away with on TV in Generally is far worse then what the Americans.

I haven't seen either the Wind That Shakes the Barley or V for Vandetta, and I don't think much of Michael Collins.

American TV for Children is far better then British TV. I think that it is more a case of losing an accent then actually worrying about morals IMO. Hence I can bring up my problem with the influxs of British TV values on Irish TV.

Of course you could have always ignored my remark about Britian. I wasn't trying to hyjack this discussion. I think it is a valid point.

Which would you rather have Dr Who & Worzel Gummidge or Typical US kids shows values?

Dr. Who and Worzel Gummidge are ****, and have nothing do to with British Values. I would rather watch american TV any day then the tripe that the British come up with.

Warner Bros cartoons any day.

I find the influx of Asian shows worse TBH. Pokemon what the **** is that about?

watty

Bring back Bosco

DMC

Wanderly Wagon ftw.

Elmo

Bring back Zig and Zag (The rotten apple club )

I actually liked Fortycoats

SRB

Elmo wrote:

RTE has had a dedicated Childrens service long before ITV or The BBC.

Eh ? Showing Popeye after the "Bells" at six in the 70's was hardly on a par with Jackanory/Blue Peter/Playschool etc....

watty

The BBC TV had a dedicated Childerns production maybe 6 years or 7 years BEFORE RTE even discovered TV

Elmo

The BBC TV had a dedicated Childerns production maybe 6 years or 7 years BEFORE RTE even discovered TV

I am of course Talking about The Den. Since RTE began to show Children's programming on One Channel rather then separating them out over 2 channels as the BBC did for many years before the arrivial of CBBC and the Cbeebies Channels. ITV only gave a few hours of the day to CITV and C4 was the same.

1988 - 1997 Dempsey's Den/ The Den 3 - 6 (Starting with Bosco at 2:30 and finishing with Jo Maxi at 6:30)
1997 - Date The Den 06:00 to 17:30

Note: Dempsey's Den start in 1985 on RTE One after Live at Three.

Eh ? Showing Popeye after the "Bells" at six in the 70's was hardly on a par with Jackanory/Blue Peter/Playschool etc....

I always though the BBC where far better then RTE, but Jackanory/Blue Peter/Playschool etc never really intrested me I found the very boring and stiff.

watty

The Den is a method have having less content and Branding the Channel. With at one stage the most nasty DOG. IMO it reduced the quality of RTE.

Elmo

The Den is a method have having less content and Branding the Channel. With at one stage the most nasty DOG. IMO it reduced the quality of RTE.

Yes The Den has become that of late but over all it provided better content then that of any episode of Blue Peter etc the past.

CBBC and CITV are also methods of have less content and branding channels, as is being proved by what ITV are planning .

SRB

Elmo wrote:

Yes The Den has become that of late but over all it provided better content then that of any episode of Blue Peter etc the past.

CBBC and CITV are also methods of have less content and branding channels, as is being proved by what ITV are planning .

Sorry, totally disagree, the Den as such is just links between (mainly bought in) programming. Yes, it did have a bit more life about it with Zig and Zag and later Dustin, but it was still mainly just junctions. Blue Peter was an example off the top of my head, to say The Den was/is providing better content than BBC TV Children's output over the last 80 odd years is a bit ridiculous.

CBBC as a brand was around from the days of the "Broom Cupboard", CITV was ITV's answer to it.

Capt'n Midnight

watty wrote:

The Americans with the morals are almost scarier...

:eek:

Elmo wrote:

Warner Bros cartoons any day.

Do you mean the classic 1950's ones produced for Adult viewing in the Cinema or more recent classics like Pink and the Brain
Or the ones they are producing now, in the following list ignore anything over five years old ( I still can't forgive then for Pinky, Elmira and the Brian ).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warner_Bros._Animation

* ¡Mucha Lucha!
* Ace Ventura: Pet Detective
* Animaniacs
* Baby Looney Tunes
* The Batman
* Batman Beyond
* Batman: The Animated Series
* Beetlejuice
* The Cat&Birdy Warneroonie PinkyBrainy Big Cartoonie Show
* Coconut Fred's Fruit Salad Island
* Firehouse Tales
* Freakazoid!
* Free Willy
* Histeria!
* Johnny Test
* Justice League
* Justice League Unlimited
* Krypto the Superdog
* Legion of Super Heroes
* Loonatics Unleashed
* The New Batman Adventures
* The New Batman/Superman Adventures
* Ozzy & Drix
* Pinky and the Brain
* Road Rovers
* Shaggy & Scooby-Doo Get a Clue!
* Static Shock
* Superman: The Animated Series
* The Sylvester and Tweety Mysteries
* Taz-Mania
* Teen Titans
* Tiny Toon Adventures
* Tom and Jerry Tales
* Waynehead
* What's New, Scooby-Doo?
* Xiaolin Showdown
* The Zeta Project

It's a shame about the Kids TV and the whole watershed time, God be with the days when the news was on at nine and all the kids were sent to bed because there was nothing on. And then the good film

DMC

Sorry to be a pedant, but just for historically accuracy, Children's ITV and its branding and junctions, started in early 1983, (Matthew Kelly being the first presenter, iirc, produced for the ITV network by Central) then the BBC surpassed them in September 1985 with Philip Schofield and the broom cupboard.

Elmo

Sorry, totally disagree, the Den as such is just links between (mainly bought in) programming. Yes, it did have a bit more life about it with Zig and Zag and later Dustin, but it was still mainly just junctions. Blue Peter was an example off the top of my head, to say The Den was/is providing better content than BBC TV Children's output over the last 80 odd years is a bit ridiculous.

You don't have to appoligise for not agreeing.

IMO

I grew up with 1 and 2, but I also had 2 TVs, which ment that I could watch Kids TV while mam and dad watched the news or live at 3 or what ever on One.

The Den wasn't just about links between programs. Yes that was a major part of it but it was also about other things. Such as:- Pet Vet, Don's Art, Competitions, The Yes/No Game Show, Pop Gossip and of course The Bedtime story/ The Rotten Apple club. And RTE also had Echo Island (Just as Crap as Blue peter) and Jo Maxi plus How Do You Do? and other Irish shows.

It really depends on what you are looking for, however in Ireland we have a tendancy to down play things that are good in Ireland (a self hate complex if you like). I don't really understant it. I remember going to friends houses and seeing for the first time those shows that you talk about, I used to think what **** how can anyone watch this, you can imagine my dissappiontment when Echo Island start uh uh uh just an Irish version of a **** Kids show from the BBC, Blue Peter sucks.

Do you mean the classic 1950's ones produced for Adult viewing in the Cinema or more recent classics like Pink and the Brain

It's called imagination and Blue Peter etc doesn't come close

<<<<<<< The Brain is the coolest IMO

However the Den has gone down hill in the last few years. It's a pity that the Children's Dept in RTE have forgotten that the reason that The Den was so good was because it didn't talk down to anyone and the presenters where having fun and much of the production was not scripted.

IMO Blue Peteresqe presenters:-

Stop talking so loud
Stop smiling so much
Stop talking as slow as you can
and FFS stop talking down to kids most of them are more intelligent then you are.

thejuggler

Sorry posted in wrong thread - please delete

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

The Den was crap. Good presentation, but that was it. There was absolutely nothign worthwhile in the prgrams shown during it's reign that hadn't already been seen adnauseum on the Beeb, ITV or satellite.

Has RTE ever screened a home produced children's drama show? I'm think recently of Custer's Last Stand-Up, but that was co-produced with the Beeb and the ONLY one I can think of.

Mossy Monk

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

There was absolutely nothign worthwhile in the prgrams shown during it's reign that hadn't already been seen adnauseum on the Beeb, ITV or satellite

just aswell then seeing as not everyone had satellite or even BBC/ITV

just because those channels showed something didnt mean that RTÉ shouldnt

watty

Yep we need to cater for the 10% to 20% with only RTE1 & RTE2.
I think at this stage more people have ITV / BBC access than ANY TV3 terrestrially via aerial

Capt'n Midnight

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

Has RTE ever screened a home produced children's drama show? I'm think recently of Custer's Last Stand-Up, but that was co-produced with the Beeb and the ONLY one I can think of.

http://www.rte.ie/tv/foreignexchange/index.html
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=494

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Mossy Monk wrote:

just aswell then seeing as not everyone had satellite or even BBC/ITV

just because those channels showed something didnt mean that RTÉ shouldnt

True.... but, the showing imported shows should be done in addtion to not as a replacement for home produced shows.

Captain Midnight wrote:

http://www.rte.ie/tv/foreignexchange/index.html
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=494

Ok then, three. In thrity years. And that Foreign Affari one looks co-produced too and is hardly original content.

bk

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

Has RTE ever screened a home produced children's drama show? I'm think recently of Custer's Last Stand-Up, but that was co-produced with the Beeb and the ONLY one I can think of.

Actually I remember RTE co-produced quite a few in conjunction with Austarlian channels.

I have to agree with Elmo, The Den was actually really good, in particular Zig + Zag and Dustin. The reason it was so good was that the humour was actually quiet adult, it was very much the precursor to Podge and Rodge.

Mossy Monk

isnt that where podge and rodge started off, or at least one of them

on the Den?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

bk wrote:

Actually I remember RTE co-produced quite a few in conjunction with Austarlian channels.

I have to agree with Elmo, The Den was actually really good, in particular Zig + Zag and Dustin. The reason it was so good was that the humour was actually quiet adult, it was very much the precursor to Podge and Rodge.

Preesentation, fari enough. But again - it's no substitute for content and drama

Elmo

isnt that where podge and rodge started off, or at least one of them

on the Den?

Both of them and both are Zig and Zag.

Wanderly Wagon
Bosco
The Morbegs
Fortycoats
Foreign Exchange
Custers Last Stand Up
How Do You Do
Echo Island
Jo Maxi
etc etc

watty

Bosco & Fortycoats i watched as an adult with my young kids. Apart from inability of presenter on Bosco to sing (As per the older BBC kids program for same age, forget name), both seemed quite good.

But I wouln't pay mad RTE price for the recyled DVD of Bosco nor would the now grown up kids who was a Bosco fan. BBC prices for DVDs are bad, but RTE seem to be exhorbitant.

Elmo

But I wouln't pay mad RTE price for the recyled DVD of Bosco nor would the now grown up kids who was a Bosco fan. BBC prices for DVDs are bad, but RTE seem to be exhorbitant.

Yeah cann't dissagree with that.

Also RTE Children's TV has gone down hill with the number of non-related presentation Children's shows.

In the 1980's and 1990's The Den would show at least 2 Irish childrens shows plus the presentation parts of the Den with guests (i.e. the Z list celebs now being interviewed by Rodge and Podge ), information (i.e. Pop Gossip, Astrology, Pet Vet, Draw with Don etc) and also Zig, Zag, Ray, Dustin and Simon taking the piss out of RTE with The Rotten Apple Club, A Bedtime Story and other skits.

ITV are now prob in the same suituation extend our hours but cut the output. Like most Digital Services. I am sure the BBC have done the same.