To stay in ireland or seek bigger and better in the UK

gary the great

Im in a bit of dilemma, i started a new job last week and its grand, not to bad if not a bit boring. My salary is 27k. I have friends who finished college with me in May who have gone to England and are earning 42K for basically the same job. Were all in the 22-24 age bracket.

Every time i hear them talking about it i get a little pissed off, i could go over and get a job with them easily but i dunno if id like to live in England away from friends and family, but its a massive amount of money i could be earning as well as earning good experience which would help me get a job here in Ireland (which are hard to come by in this profession). But i think i would miss my friends and family.

So basically would i like an extra 18k a year plus good work experience or the comfort and handyness of living at home and earning less money. What are your opions?

eth0_

It would help if you told us what sort of job you do.

Salaries in the UK aren't a huge amount more than here, except if you are in London but the cost of living there is huge too.

Maybe...your friends are more talented than you, did you consider that? It's pretty rare for someone your age to be earning more than 30k

Blackjack

are the figures quoted the EUR equivalent, or are they 27K euro and 42k GBP?.

eth0_ makes a good point about cost of Living, london is really, really expensive. I recently visited a mate of mine (admittedly he lives in Notting Hill) and he pays in 2 weeks rent more than a month of My Mortgage, and my place is at least twice the square footage.
On top of that you have council tax and a whole load of other expenses you don't have in Ireland.

gary the great

We do env health/health and safety. i do health and safety here while the lads do env health in England, both of which were qualified to do. There living in Nottingham not london!

And no i didnt consider my friends were more talented than me, cos there not! I got a much better degree than them and have more experience.

The fact is theres such an amount of vacancies for EHO jobs in the UK that they will hire anyone with the degree so it would be no bother getting a job, wereas in ireland theres very very few EHO job opportunities. Thats why ive gone into health and safety.

And yup its 42K eur they earn, thats the basic starting salary over there! compared to my measly 27K? Is it really that much more to live over there than here?

I know its unusual for people my age to be earning over 30K and going to plan I should be earning at least over that by the time im 25.

So anymore input?

Blackjack

Well, more expensive, yes it is in London certainly.

Also, I did a calculation a few years back on personal taxation, and your eqivalent UK Salary would have to be greater that GBP 32K to be any better off over there. That would be before taking into account any tax relief available in Ireland not available in the UK (e.g - Pension contributions, mortgage interest relief, marriage allowances, travel schemes etc) and also before any council tax would have to be paid.

As it's unlikely at your age you these are issues that would concern you, so it may not be a bad idea to go over there and get the experience from both the work perspective, and also living abroad. You need to think about being away from family etc and any of the things you may miss. If you are going, you should consider going at the end of february, provided you have a job to go to. You're probably more likely to get all your tax paid (Tax Year to date) in Ireland back, and if you start earning in the UK, you are likely to be due some tax back after the 5th of April, as they've not changed their tax year yet. It won't be huge, but it would help when you're starting off with stuff like deposits etc.

Civilian_Target

I'm living in London right now. It's a bit like this:

Wages in the UK are not better, except in the South East. If you work outside there, average pay for a graduate's about £20-£24k, which roughly translates as €28-€34k. If you work in the South East, it's about £24k-£30k, which is about €34-€40k. Most companies will throw in some kind of bonus proposition of about £5k for the first year for graduates, which is probably added into your friend's €42k. Problem is, cost of living in the South-East is very high - you can roughly equate euros to pounds -- and particularly for rent and nights out, it's even more expensive.

Most of the roles in the south-east are analyst, support or consultancy, there aren't that many software development roles in that part of the world because it's cheaper to develop software in other parts of the country, and there the rate of pay is the same as Ireland anyway!

So you're not actually much worse off in Ireland when it comes to money, however, there are much better chances for promotion if you're good in the UK. People work harder and are probably rewarded more fairly in return. Good if you're a hard and talented worker, not so good if you want to actually go home at 5 or 6pm!

leeroybrown

I think that Civilian_Target makes a good point about promotion prospects. I've seen quite a few people describe a move to the UK for a few years as having been very good for their career and having advanced them more quickly than they could have done here. Perhaps you could look into how working over there would influence your future work prospects, particularly the opportunities you could possibly have to move back to a good job here in a few years time.

If I were in your position I would suggest keeping in touch with your friends over and finding out about the quality of life they have over there and how well they have settled. They should also be able to give you an idea of how far the extra money really stretches. If I went over it would have more to do with getting a good job, career advancement and a chance to work somewhere else than money. That said the extra money would be a nice incentive.

BossArky

I work and live in central London, get paid v.well and don't find it is expensive as everyone makes out. This may well be down to the fact that I partied out alot of my debaucherous drinking nature on the streets of France for the first 18 months after Uni working there and took a more reserved me to the UK. As Civilian_Target says there are a lot of opportunities in London and if you grasp them you can move quickly up the drain pipe with a bit of style and charisma. At 25 I feel that this kind of lifestyle wouldn't have been as easy in Ireland.

Forget about Ireland for a few years, make the move and you will open your eyes to some other possibilities, make new friends, travel the world, etc. You can always fall back on plan B which is back to Ireland.

At the end of the day, what do you have to loose? - nothing... what do you have to gain?... the world :cool: PM me if you want further info.

4Xcut

Well, if you're ever going to try it, do it now. Do it before you get tied to a place. If you wait for a few years you probably won't go for whatever reason.

Worst case scenario:You come back from England next year with a fair bit of extra cash. If you like it, then stay. Either way do it now while you have the chance.

mountainyman

gary the great wrote:

There living in Nottingham not london!

And no i didnt consider my friends were more talented than me, cos there not! I got a much better degree than them and have more experience.

And yup its 42K eur they earn, thats the basic starting salary over there! compared to my measly 27K? Is it really that much more to live over there than here?

I know its unusual for people my age to be earning over 30K and going to plan I should be earning at least over that by the time im 25.

So anymore input?

Move to Nottingham, and they are is 'they're'.

MM

tHE vAGGABOND

I went to London about 6 or 7 years ago when I was at a loose end over here. I loved it, and had some amazing times over there. I used it as a base to see the world. I made some friends for life and indeed met some people I would not like to see ever again tbh in a series of house shares and all that fun stuff..

I moved home about 4 or 5 months ago, as I had had enough and just wanted to come back and start 'real life'. I think most people who have gone to the UK, going back to my parents generation stay there for 4 to 6 years, and then come home.

If in doubt, go over to London for a couple of weeks and see what you think

neacy69

i think you should at least give it a go...if it dosen't work it dosen't work at least you will have given it shot and won't be left wondering what could have been

i am planning on moving to london my self in about 10-12 months once i have paid off debts and gotten a bit of IT experience notched up but i like travelling and new challenges.

if you miss you family that much when you get there dont forget you can hop on a flight home whenever you want for little or nothing and they can visit you for the same

GO FOR IT!!!!

tHE vAGGABOND

I could get from my desk in central london to my ma's gaff in Dublin in just over 3 hours [late night, so light traffic and with all transport connections going perfectly in my favour]. Even regardless its a 4 or 5 hour commute from a job in central london to a home in dublin.

It almost took me longer than that to get from Airport to the Tallafornia exit of the M50 yesterday morning ffs

Do it, give it a lash

BossArky

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

Do it, give it a lash

haha,.. off topic... your comment reminds me of the 1990 World Cup song... give it a lash jack, never never never say no, Ireland Ireland, Rep.of Ireland, rev it up and here we go!

Classic anthem to have in your mind moving to London!

neacy69

BossArky wrote:

haha,.. off topic... your comment reminds me of the 1990 World Cup song... give it a lash jack, never never never say no, Ireland Ireland, Rep.of Ireland, rev it up and here we go!

Classic anthem to have in your mind moving to London!

hmmm if thats was anyone but a mod would have been a well deserved ban for blatantly Off Topic posting

on topic: london baby yeah go for it

Blackjack

BossArky wrote:

haha,.. off topic... your comment reminds me of the 1990 World Cup song... give it a lash jack, never never never say no, Ireland Ireland, Rep.of Ireland, rev it up and here we go!

Classic anthem to have in your mind moving to London!

Jesus H. I thought I'd managed to banish that musical garbage from my memory forever.

Damn you!!

/shakes fist at BossArky

WhiteWashMan

i live in the south east of england, and i dont find it that expensive tbh.
if i compare it to dublin that is.

put it this way, in its simplest terms, its like living in ireland, except you get paid more.
id also agree that there are probably more prospects in the uk, but it all really depends on who you are, and what you want to do.

for anyone who thinks they will be homesick, dublin is 55 minutes away on a plane. it takes longer for me to get into dublin city centre sometimes from my home in dublin. hell, its taken me longer to get into london, and i only live 35 miles away from it!

i would also go with the suggestion to try it out. its what i did, and now ive been here for over 5 years.

newestUser

I'm probably putting my foot in it here, but am I the only person who thinks that the OPs motives for making a major life decision (moving to another country) are flawed, ie he's jealous that some of his friends are making a bit more money than him? I know he's also said that it's a good opportunity to get some experience that he mightn't get here, but still, the first reason he gave was "my friends earn more than me".

God I'm very judgmental today.

Kali

Again i'm in the south-east, money's pretty decent here.. cost of living is cheaper for me (i pay less rent than i would in dublin for instance)... and I've just bought a house here. Stansted is a 30min drive away so not exactly the furthest distance to get home when I want/need to.
Anyway as the above poster said, if your motives for moving are right (money, new experiences) then go for it.. don't do it out of jealousy

TempestSabre

gary the great wrote:

....Were all in the 22-24 age bracket....

You'll never be this age again. Go try it.

blorg

I would have thought cost of living in the UK (outside London) was a _good_ bit lower than Dublin. Even London I would have thought not that much more expensive, indeed probably cheaper excluding the rent.

jrey1981

Nottingham area is generally a cheap place to live in the UK compared to the South East.

In the UK you do have to bear in mind council tax can be a burden. Utilities I would guess are slightly cheaper than Dublin, and rent might be as well, depending on where you currently live.

Eg. electricity, telephone, mobile phone, broadband should all be cheaper than in Ireland.

You have several airports nearby from where you can get home: Nottingham, East Midlands, Sheffield, Doncaster, Manchester, Birmingham.

I suggest applying for jobs in the area - going over for interviews shouldn't be too much trouble - and see what happens.

Stan06

Hello All,
I hope you don't mind if I, being a foreigner, break into your discussion.
Sorry for my bad English:)
I am database developer (7 years exp.) from non-EU country and right away I have offers both from Ireland (not Dublin) and London, both for 45k euro/pounds. What's your opinion, folks, regarding the cost of living - is it appr.the same or 45K in London is less than 45K in, say, Cork?

Billiejo

gary the great wrote:

Im in a bit of dilemma, i started a new job last week and its grand, not to bad if not a bit boring. My salary is 27k. I have friends who finished college with me in May who have gone to England and are earning 42K for basically the same job. Were all in the 22-24 age bracket.

Every time i hear them talking about it i get a little pissed off, i could go over and get a job with them easily but i dunno if id like to live in England away from friends and family, but its a massive amount of money i could be earning as well as earning good experience which would help me get a job here in Ireland (which are hard to come by in this profession). But i think i would miss my friends and family.

So basically would i like an extra 18k a year plus good work experience or the comfort and handyness of living at home and earning less money. What are your opions?

I'm in the same business for the last 30 years....And guess what....Me thinks they are telling you prokies!!!

Fratton Fred

I've just done the opposite move and I can give some advice on my exeriences.

In Dublin rent is a lot cheaper, even though house prices are a lot more expensive then everywhere in England except London. (A €1m house in south Dublin will cost you €2k a month to rent, in London it will cost you that a week!! There are no €1m houses in Nottingham though) A night out in London will cost about the same as a night out in Dublin, but a night out in Nottingham will cost a lot less.

Phone charges are now about the same but Gas and Elctricity are a lot higher in Ireland. Petrol here is also a lot cheaper (Around 20c a litre cheaper) but car insurance is much higher. Also, if you make the move, buy a car straight away so you can avoid paying the VRT if you decide to come back.

On the plus side, there is an incredible amount of single women in Nottingham, but it is also the gun crime capital of England. So you may score regularly, but may end up getting shot in the process!

If you are single and in your mid twenties, go for it. You have nohting to lose and you will always regret it if you don't.

damnyanks

Stan06 wrote:

Hello All,
I hope you don't mind if I, being a foreigner, break into your discussion.
Sorry for my bad English:)
I am database developer (7 years exp.) from non-EU country and right away I have offers both from Ireland (not Dublin) and London, both for 45k euro/pounds. What's your opinion, folks, regarding the cost of living - is it appr.the same or 45K in London is less than 45K in, say, Cork?

Goto Cork, its far cheaper then London. Your money will go a lot further.

pow wow

GO GO GO GO GO GO GO!

Worse case scenario you hate it and come back. I worked in England for 5 years and the money was fantastic compared to salaries offered for the same jobs back in Ireland. The promotion and networking opportunities and fantastic, and the social life is amazing.

I couldn't even get an entry level job back in Ireland in the field I was working at in England - and I was mid level there on 30K a year. Do it!

Stan06

damnyanks wrote:

Goto Cork, its far cheaper then London. Your money will go a lot further.

Thanks damnyanks, this is what I think too. BTW, any ideas comparing Cork to Glasgow? Another offer I have is from there... and I don't know a thing about what is the life like in that city...

vimak

Anyone have thoughts about salaries for network engineer in UK? CCNP and one or two experience with BGP, MPLS, broadband, firewalls and the usual stuff you have to deal with in an ISP environment. MCP/LPIC too maybe.

Fratton Fred

vimak wrote:

Anyone have thoughts about salaries for network engineer in UK? CCNP and one or two experience with BGP, MPLS, broadband, firewalls and the usual stuff you have to deal with in an ISP environment. MCP/LPIC too maybe.

I am related to a CCIE who reckons he is earning three times more in the UK than he could here. But CCIE's earn tonnes anyway:D

gary the great

mates aernt telling porkies, go onto lgjobs.co.uk and check the salries for an environmental health officer.

blorg

Stan06 wrote:

Thanks damnyanks, this is what I think too. BTW, any ideas comparing Cork to Glasgow? Another offer I have is from there... and I don't know a thing about what is the life like in that city...

Cold and wet like the rest of Scotland! Apart from that seemed quite nice, with good pubs and restaurants (only there for a day.) Eating and drinking out was certainly a lot cheaper than Cork. Maybe someone with more experience of the place could give you a bit more info.

Blackjack

Glasgow is a decent enough town, but it does have serious issues with Knife Crime and sectarianism though, although this tends to be confined.
Aside from that, Glaswegians are very friendly people, and are good craic to go out with.

Stan06

Wow, never heard of this word - sectarianism - before :eek:
From viki it's something about contradictions between Catholics and Protestants..I heard rumors about something like that in Nothern Ireland, like, you cannot enter the pub until you explain where you belong to...
Are they dangerous to those who doesn't belong to any church?
Or they will just escort you to Knife Crime team? (sorry for bad joke)
Anyway, thanks a lot for very interesting info... got to think hard...

Blackjack

Stan06 wrote:

Wow, never heard of this word - sectarianism - before :eek:
From viki it's something about contradictions between Catholics and Protestants..I heard rumors about something like that in Nothern Ireland, like, you cannot enter the pub until you explain where you belong to...
Are they dangerous to those who doesn't belong to any church?
Or they will just escort you to Knife Crime team? (sorry for bad joke)
Anyway, thanks a lot for very interesting info... got to think hard...

Depending on where you are from, they will make assumptions based on that and on your accent. Not sure if you are being flippant or not, to be honest.

blorg

I would imagine that you would be fine as long as you kept your head screwed on, avoid certain pubs/places (like you would in any city) and avoid wearing Celtic/Rangers shirts.

I don't think southern Irish accents tend to excite them as much as northern ones anyway, and if you are from Cork sure you'll be mutually unintelligible with Glaswegians in any case.

Stan06

blorg wrote:

I would imagine that you would be fine as long as you kept your head screwed on, avoid certain pubs/places (like you would in any city) and avoid wearing Celtic/Rangers shirts.

I don't think southern Irish accents tend to excite them as much as northern ones anyway, and if you are from Cork sure you'll be mutually unintelligible with Glaswegians in any case.

Thanks for your comment, blorg, actually I'm Russian and my English has strong German accent as my american friends used to tell me:) I'm just looking for a comfortable and tolerant place to live in... 10 years ago I lived in Dublin for a while and was fascinated with it's beauty and friendliness of Irishmen, but I recon a lot of things has changed since then...

Billiejo

gary the great wrote:

Im in a bit of dilemma, i started a new job last week and its grand, not to bad if not a bit boring. My salary is 27k. I have friends who finished college with me in May who have gone to England and are earning 42K for basically the same job. Were all in the 22-24 age bracket.

Every time i hear them talking about it i get a little pissed off, i could go over and get a job with them easily but i dunno if id like to live in England away from friends and family, but its a massive amount of money i could be earning as well as earning good experience which would help me get a job here in Ireland (which are hard to come by in this profession). But i think i would miss my friends and family.

So basically would i like an extra 18k a year plus good work experience or the comfort and handyness of living at home and earning less money. What are your opions?

EWO can earn +++ as consultants in private companies.
Joe blogs average is £25k - £34k incremental yearly.
Senior managment - After 10-15 years, ranges from £30k -£60k+.

gary the great

Billiejo wrote:

EWO can earn +++ as consultants in private companies.
Joe blogs average is £25k - £34k incremental yearly.
Senior managment - After 10-15 years, ranges from £30k -£60k+.

Are you in this field in the UK?

I looked into private work in the UK and unless you run the consiultancy firm the money dont seem that great, plus you dont get the benefits of working in a public sector job.

Kali

vimak wrote:

Anyone have thoughts about salaries for network engineer in UK? CCNP and one or two experience with BGP, MPLS, broadband, firewalls and the usual stuff you have to deal with in an ISP environment. MCP/LPIC too maybe.

Upto 50k easily enough... heres one I made earlier:
http://www.jobserve.com/ECF59C1471A7A25EB.job

upthere

England is not as big or better than the United States. I much prefer America to England. And most of my family went to America rather than England.
England is very expensive anyway. Ireland has one of the best minimum wages in Europe so why people so quick to forget that?

Budd

Tahts the problem with Ireland. Graduates don't earn enough compared to the lowest paid jobs.

WhiteWashMan

upthere wrote:

England is not as big or better than the United States. I much prefer America to England. And most of my family went to America rather than England.
England is very expensive anyway. Ireland has one of the best minimum wages in Europe so why people so quick to forget that?

who cares about minimum wage?

damnyanks

People who earn it or people who believe tehy are in a good job only to realise they could get a somewhat similar pay package working minimum wage in Ireland.

leeroybrown

The minimum wage does matter to quite a lot of people but it's completely out of context in this thread.

elven

Stan06 wrote:

Thanks for your comment, blorg, actually I'm Russian and my English has strong German accent as my american friends used to tell me:) I'm just looking for a comfortable and tolerant place to live in... 10 years ago I lived in Dublin for a while and was fascinated with it's beauty and friendliness of Irishmen, but I recon a lot of things has changed since then...

I've just moved from Glasgow to Dublin, lived there for 8 years nearly, starting when I went to uni. If you live in a decent area (west end/partick, or city centre) and you don't go to sectarian pubs or care about rangers/celtic it has a fantastic nightlife and even though I've never been to cork, comparing it with dublin it seems much bigger. The student scene is huge with so many colleges and universities, so you can go out on any night of the week As far as being pretty, i think Glasgow is highly underrated as a beautiful city. We lived a lot less expensively there, in terms of rent (incuding council tax)/electricity etc but got paid a whole lot less than in Dublin so if you're getting the same wage, choose Glasgow...

To the OP, take the chance while you have it, if you *really* can make that much more money. If not, you'll always wonder what it would have been like.

Solair

Wages tend to be a demand and supply thing. If there's no demand for your particular qualification in Ireland at present, you won't be able to demand as much.

If there's a shortage in the UK and companies are crying out for people with your qualifications, obviously the wages on offer will rise.

I'd say go for it!

Plenty of British people I know have done the opposite move for exactly the same reasons.

On average, wages here are higher than on average in the UK. It just very much depends on your particular industry/sector/job.

Cost of living wise, Nottingham would be cheaper than Dublin by quite a bit.

There's no point in being inflexible with where you'll work. I'm considering cities all over Ireland and the UK. Only place I'd rule out is N.Ireland as I wouldn't bring kids up in that atomsphere (sorry any N.I. people, but I do think the sectarian mentality's inescapable up there) but other than that I'm willing to go anywhere in "these islands" or most places in europe.

lifebook

I did something similar a few years back. I work as an integration engineer and moved there for a change pf scenery and the money was double to what I would have got here.

I was over there a year and they asked me to move back so I could work in an Irish brranc they were opening.

Gave me same salary in Euro which was amazing. They also gave a relocation grant.

When I moved there was very few jobs in integration but now as the country has progressed there are loads.

I say go for it. All those companies that do EHS in the UK will soon see that there is plenty of money floating around over here and start setting up offices. Ya could end up being in the right place at the right time and come back on a great salary.

GO GO GO GO GO GO

Richard

Solair wrote:

Only place I'd rule out is N.Ireland as I wouldn't bring kids up in that atomsphere (sorry any N.I. people, but I do think the sectarian mentality's inescapable up there)

You'd be wrong, then. There is sectarianism, of course, but there are areas in any country where you wouldn't want to live. If you go and live somewhere where there are murals and painted kerbstones then it'll be sectarian, but most of Northern Ireland isn't like that.

gary the great

Lads after a lot of thought, ive decided to go to the UK. Thanks for your help and advice!

JimmyK

Stan06 wrote:

Wow, never heard of this word - sectarianism - before :eek:
From viki it's something about contradictions between Catholics and Protestants..I heard rumors about something like that in Nothern Ireland, like, you cannot enter the pub until you explain where you belong to...
Are they dangerous to those who doesn't belong to any church?
Or they will just escort you to Knife Crime team? (sorry for bad joke)
Anyway, thanks a lot for very interesting info... got to think hard...

You'll be fine in Glasgow.

I was there for 3 years and never had a single bad thing said to me.

I'm originally from Galway and Glaswegians only asked me where I was from out of curiosity, but their knowledge of Irish geography was usually terrible.

If you want to live in Glasgow, I would recommend the West End as it's the nicest side of town or the South Side, which is also pretty popular. They tend to be more pricey though but they're really nice and safe areas to live.

Places to avoid are places like the East End, Govan, Ibrox or Maryhill. That's where the knife crime is more likely to happen.

Let me know if you need any more info about Glasgow.