How actually is the Holy Spirit by the definition?

T-1111111111111

I'm wondering who actually is the Holy Spirit according to the Bible, to the Catechism and to the Christians themselves?
What is "his position" is the trinity?
If he is God, why are his "duties" then limited (meaning who gave him his duties)?
Also if he is God, does he have to obey anyone? Would that not make him "less than God"?

Thanks for your answers!

Victor

God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one and separate at the same time.

I wouldn't say he has duties, more a facet - like two sides to a coin.

T-1111111111111

Victor wrote:

God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one and separate at the same time.

I wouldn't say he has duties, more a facet - like two sides to a coin.

To me it seems that the spirit has a lesser importance in the trinity vs the father and the son.

When you say they are one and separate at the same time.. would that not indicate that this might be a paradox?

PS I'm well aware that God can do anything He wants, but it's His Being we're talking about here. God does not make Himself in other words. God does not create Himself, therefore I would think that Jesus cannot be God?!

For instance, word begotten has these definitions (among others):

1. To father; sire.
2. To cause to exist or occur; produce: Violence begets more violence.

How can God produce Himself? Or part of Himself? Or God caused Himself to exist? That would suggest that once (if time dimension can be applied since humans need this to understand action/reaction) far back in time Jesus was indeed created, but that would make Jesus merely a creature, not the Creator and therefore not God?

Victor

Well thats the mystery.

T-1111111111111

Victor wrote:

Well thats the mystery.

Hmmm...well, I would expect from God to define this better, wouldn't you say? And I'm 100% sure that He did, which leads me to a conclusion that somebody changed the original Scripture the way they wanted? Is that a posibility?

Karl Hungus

T-1111111111111 wrote:

Hmmm...well, I would expect from God to define this better, wouldn't you say?

How can expect a non-existant entity to define anything? You might aswell ask that Santa Claus clarify how he visits kids all around the world in just one night, or what the tooth fairy does with all those teeth.

T-1111111111111

Karl Hungus wrote:

How can expect a non-existant entity to define anything? You might aswell ask that Santa Claus clarify how he visits kids all around the world in just one night, or what the tooth fairy does with all those teeth.

U cant be serious - I asked the Christians themselves. Ur obviously not one of them.


PS About the non-existant... I could as well then say the same about you - I do not talk to you, u never posted anything, u don't exist actually. All this is only an illusion...

Karl Hungus

T-1111111111111 wrote:

U cant be serious - I asked the Christians themselves. Ur obviously not one of them.

I'm very serious. But if you'd rather not hear from me, I'll butt out.

T-1111111111111 wrote:

PS About the non-existant... I could as well then say the same about you - I do not talk to you, u never posted anything, u don't exist actually. All this is only an illusion...

Or perhaps I am part of your unconscious mind, speaking aloud what you know to be true, but dare not admit to yourself.

MOGSA

Why is it that you ask the same questions again and again, ignoring our previous replies?


Originally Posted by T-1111111111111
5. The Holy Spirit - never was God and never will be - find me a statement where is says so. Also, find this is the Old Testament if you can. If you believe he was God, how is it that this statement is not explicite to be found?


ISAW provided a very comprehensive list of references just a few weeks ago so there is not need to repeat them all - just stop trying to rework the same material over and over again! The answer will always be the same.

A proper Christian is a Holy Spirit-filled individual. All people who are not Holy Spirit-filled are not Christians.
The real issue is the fact that born-again Christians are filled with the Holy Spirit – a promise that was made and fulfilled shortly after His resurrection at Pentecost. This manifestation of God in the form of the Holy Spirit within born-again Christians is an everyday modern occurrence and put to daily use.

I also have great difficulty understanding why my Qur’an version states the Jesus foretold of Mohammed when He told the disciples that He would send them a ‘Comforter’. In my terms this ‘Comforter’ was the Holy Spirit that is with me right now as discussed earlier in this thread. To whom do you think this Comforter refers in Lamentations 1:16:

For these things I weep; mine eye, mine eye runneth down with water, because the comforter that should relieve my soul is far from me: my children are desolate, because the enemy prevailed.

Jesus was very clear on who and what this ‘Comforter’ was to be. For example:
John:7:38 - 39:

He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
: (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

The ‘Comforter’ is clearly the Holy Spirit, not Mohammed.

John: 3:3 - 8:

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

John :14:26:

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John:16:13:

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Clearly, Jesus was describing a Spirit being and not the arrival of Mohammed!

Are you filled with the Holy Spirit of the God of Abraham as provided in the Qur’an?

‘Behold! I strengthened thee
With the Holy Spirit’,

T-1111111111111

MOGSA wrote:

Why is it that you ask the same questions again and again, ignoring our previous replies?

The question was - Who actually is the Holy Spirit?

And nobody gave the satisfying answer - that's why I ask again.

T-1111111111111

MOGSA wrote:

Are you filled with the Holy Spirit of the God of Abraham as provided in the Qur’an?

‘Behold! I strengthened thee
With the Holy Spirit’,

No - I am certainly not. Cos if that is true (and assuming that the Holy Spirit is God as by the Christian definition) then God is omnipresent - but if that is true, then God NEEDS time-space to exist, which is certainly not true.

T-1111111111111

Karl Hungus wrote:

I'm very serious. But if you'd rather not hear from me, I'll butt out.

No, no, U can still use the read-only mode - let's pretend I'm the moderator and I banned U.

Karl Hungus wrote:

Or perhaps I am part of your unconscious mind, speaking aloud what you know to be true, but dare not admit to yourself.

Neither of us can prove that - and that's very sad. I might not even have the unconscious mind.

Medina

Hi Mogsa,
Interesting reply to T-111111, I do have a question though.
(And guys this debate should leave out references to any other religion as this argument should either be proved or disproved from within Christianity itself),

If we take it that you are correct, and the Holy Spirit is this Comforter and not Muhammed, those quotes do still not define what the Holy Spirit is and if indeed it is part of God...?

For example in Christianity we have the Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit which are :
Wisdom

Understanding

Counsel

Fortitude

Knowledge

Piety

Fear of the Lord.

Like T-111111 says, who attributed these gifts to this Holy Spirit? Does that mean there are no other gifts? What is the purpose of the Holy Spirit that God 'the Father' could not give? And if God 'the Father' could give them, then does that not make the purpose of the Holy Spirit redundant?

T-1111111111111

Medina wrote:

For example in Christianity we have the Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit which are :
Wisdom

Understanding

Counsel

Fortitude

Knowledge

Piety

Fear of the Lord.

Like T-111111 says, who attributed these gifts to this Holy Spirit? Does that mean there are no other gifts? What is the purpose of the Holy Spirit that God 'the Father' could not give? And if God 'the Father' could give them, then does that not make the purpose of the Holy Spirit redundant?

Excellent Qs Medina.

Actually just remembered something - if i.e. the Holy Spirit can gift somebody with (only?) these 7 gifts, would that not mean that he is limited and that he for instance is not the one who gives life and death? Or for instance, is there anything he can actually create?

See, my thinking would be, if the Holy Spirit cannot give life or death or cannot create something, then he surely is not God Himself. One cannot say that Yes, He is, eventhough He does not create, etc. because that would mean that the Holy Spirit is not All-Powerful or Almighty by his nature, therefore - not God.

Asiaprod

T-1111111111111 wrote:

No, no, U can still use the read-only mode - let's pretend I'm the moderator and I banned U.

Amazing, I was thinking the very same thing, about U.;)

T-1111111111111

Asiaprod wrote:

Amazing, I was thinking the very same thing, about U.;)

Too bad we can't ban each other in a tennis match like style.
But Karl can cut us off, he is the Mod!

Asiaprod

T-1111111111111 wrote:

Too bad we can't ban each other in a tennis match like style.
But Karl can cut us off, he is the Mod!

Guess what? My stick is bigger:D
My point, is I am getting tired of you posting questions that are intended to inflame, then to abuse the situation by preaching your thoughts.
I would welcome your discussion on the points you have raised.:)

BrianCalgary

T-1111111111111 wrote:

To me it seems that the spirit has a lesser importance in the trinity vs the father and the son. ?

Boy you are big on the trinity question?:)

The Holy Spirit does not have a lesser importance. He is currently working in the lives of all His believers guicing them to do the will of God. He is also calling unbelievers to God, so that they may also be saved.

T-1111111111111 wrote:

How can God produce Himself? Or part of Himself? Or God caused Himself to exist? That would suggest that once (if time dimension can be applied since humans need this to understand action/reaction) far back in time Jesus was indeed created, but that would make Jesus merely a creature, not the Creator and therefore not God?

The Father begat the humanity of Christ. The deed was done by the Holy Spirit.

BrianCalgary

Medina wrote:

Like T-111111 says, who attributed these gifts to this Holy Spirit? Does that mean there are no other gifts? What is the purpose of the Holy Spirit that God 'the Father' could not give? And if God 'the Father' could give them, then does that not make the purpose of the Holy Spirit redundant?

One of the roles of the Holy Spirit is to attribute gifts to believers.

There is a whole list of gifts.

1 Corinthians 12, 13, 14

Romans 12:5-8
5so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to hisfaith. 7If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; 8if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

There are a couple of other passages as well.

Medina

BrianCalgary wrote:

One of the roles of the Holy Spirit is to attribute gifts to believers. .

According to who? The passage you posted there says 'according to the grace given us'. When did you translate grace to be the Holy Spirit? Also they don't refer to the seven gifts that children are taught when making their Confirmation.

Who first decided that the seven gifts I listed came from the Holy Spirit?
Jesus did not say it.

And you haven't answered the question..is the Holy Spirit limited to those particular gifts? Why is this so if he is God and can do anything?
And God 'the father' Himself could surely accomplish this so why is the Holy Spirit involved at all?


Who delegated the work between the persons of the trinity anyway?
Did God 'the father' decide the Holy Spirit should bring gifts?

Is the Holy Spirit mentioned in the Old Testament at all?

Please answer all questions as being selective makes me presume you're either uncomfortable or not knowledgable enough to answer...(and I don't have the answer either but I say that straight out).

BrianCalgary

Medina wrote:

According to who? The passage you posted there says 'according to the grace given us'. When did you translate grace to be the Holy Spirit? Also they don't refer to the seven gifts that children are taught when making their Confirmation.).

1 Corinthians 12
7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

Pretty clear that the Holy Spirit doles out the gifts.

have to ask a catholic where they get that for their confirmation.

Medina wrote:

Who first decided that the seven gifts I listed came from the Holy Spirit?
Jesus did not say it.

have to ask a Catholic where it came from if that where it is being taught.

Medina wrote:

And you haven't answered the question..is the Holy Spirit limited to those particular gifts? Why is this so if he is God and can do anything?
And God 'the father' Himself could surely accomplish this so why is the Holy Spirit involved at all?

No He is not limited. It is the role of the Holy Spirit within the trinity to give the gifts. Read 1 Cotrinthians 12 above. It is Jesus role to be the mediator between us and God.

Medina wrote:

Who delegated the work between the persons of the trinity anyway?
Did God 'the father' decide the Holy Spirit should bring gifts??

Father, Son and Holy Spirit probably decided amongst themselves what role they would each play in the salvation of mankind.

Medina wrote:

Is the Holy Spirit mentioned in the Old Testament at all?

Genesis 1:2
2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

Medina wrote:

Please answer all questions as being selective makes me presume you're either uncomfortable or not knowledgable enough to answer...(and I don't have the answer either but I say that straight out).

I can answer the questions in any order and in the time that I feel like Medina. As can you. If you have a specific question of me or anyone, feel free to askn and the respnder can feel free to answer

Gordon

Medina wrote:

Inflaming is inflaming no matter who you are

Then T-1111 shouldn't have brought up the subject and started the inflamation.

Apologies to the forum, I'll keep out of this thread now.

Medina

BrianCalgary wrote:

1 Corinthians 12
7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

Thanks for quoting the passage. It appears to me then that there is a big discrepancy between this and what the catholic church teaches in the curriculum in school.

BrianCalgary wrote:

Pretty clear that the Holy Spirit doles out the gifts.

You base your entire belief in this one passage? Also this passage still does not indicate that the Spirit is a distinct entity separate from God the Father. If you can find me that passage Brian, I'll be so happy cos all my doubts of faith will be gone.

BrianCalgary wrote:

Father, Son and Holy Spirit probably decided amongst themselves what role they would each play in the salvation of mankind..

I can guess that you wrote this in all sincerity and I respect that but it really did make me laugh. I had this vision of three guys sitting down together arguing over who does what. I mean can they even disagree with each other? Did they know in advance what each other was going to say? So why did they need to decide? Etc Etc..lets drop this one.

BrianCalgary wrote:

Genesis 1:2
2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. ..

The only thing I can think of here is that if it said 'God was hovering over the waters' what does that make you picture in your mind? Since it says 'Spirit of God' you can't put a shape on it can you? Whereas if it said God, this mental image of a man appears or something.

Do you think that Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit?

BrianCalgary wrote:

I can answer the questions in any order and in the time that I feel like Medina. As can you. If you have a specific question of me or anyone, feel free to askn and the respnder can feel free to answer

I'm well aware that you can TRY to answer Brian, neither of us actually have the answers. Because each answer raises a new question and each question becomes an answer.

Medina

Gordon wrote:

Then T-1111 shouldn't have brought up the subject and started the inflamation.

Apologies to the forum, I'll keep out of this thread now.

He didn't and Good on you, its always good to know when to bow out graciously

Medina

Naughty Naughty..someone deleted my post exposing the REAL inflamer on this thread..I wonder who?

'o physician heal thyself'

BrianCalgary

Medina wrote:

Naughty Naughty..someone deleted my post exposing the REAL inflamer on this thread..I wonder who?

'o physician heal thyself'

'Twas I. Just didn't want the topic to get away on us.

Jibreel

I don't think T-1 wanted to start anything but an honest debate about who actually the Holy Ghost is.
Now if Christians can't handle the idea that the definition of the Holy Ghost is very unclear as written in the Bible, that's not his fault. What if someone wants to get more familiar with Christianity and asks the same questions - will you tell them to get lost? Or that they are rude for questioning the base of the belief?

How can Christians expect that somebody will ever join their religion if they cannot give satisying answers to the one who asks? Especially when the basics are confusing at least to say.

Wibbs

Jibreel wrote:

I don't think T-1 wanted to start anything but an honest debate about who actually the Holy Ghost is.
Now if Christians can't handle the idea that the definition of the Holy Ghost is very unclear as written in the Bible, that's not his fault. What if someone wants to get more familiar with Christianity and asks the same questions - will you tell them to get lost? Or that they are rude for questioning the base of the belief?

How can Christians expect that somebody will ever join their religion if they cannot give satisying answers to the one who asks? Especially when the basics are confusing at least to say.

In fairness Jibreel, you could say that about any religious belief to one outside the fold.

As an aside I'm glad they changed the Holy Ghost to Holy Spirit. That used to freak me right out as a child.....

Seriously though. The whole Holy spirit bit was always confusing to me. the God/Father bit I could just about get my head around, but the Holy spirit I always had trouble with TBH. I could understand if it was just another name for god, but it always seemed to have a separate function. There ya go, all this confusion made me an agnostic.:)

Victor

Medina wrote:

I can guess that you wrote this in all sincerity and I respect that but it really did make me laugh. I had this vision of three guys sitting down together arguing over who does what. I mean can they even disagree with each other? Did they know in advance what each other was going to say? So why did they need to decide?

Think of it as three guys sitting down together agreeing who does what.

I used to work in an I office. My boss was the expert, another was the flourisher and the other guy was the not quite exact, but fast, one. I was the fussy one (the 'doubting Thomas' ). All different personalities, but it was generally easy to agree who does what on a project.

Medina

Ok, lets lay it all out here now.
I can lay out all my doubts, thoughts etc and you can pull them to pieces if you want

• There is no passage in the Bible where it is explained that the Holy Spirit and God the Father are separate entities. If I say to someone 'I'm there with you in spirit' that doesn't mean there are two Medinas does it? Why are we so convinced that they are separate ‘persons’?
• There is no passage in the Bible that refers to the Holy Spirit as God to my knowledge. The only passage that mentions them as being equal is Matthew 28 :
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
This occurs at the end of Matthew when Jesus reappears to the disciples and states this. However it is not mentioned in any of the other three Gospels and in fact when you go through each Gospel, the story is different in every Gospel after Jesus was laid in the tomb. No two authors have the same story from thereafter. So why trust this one above three others which don’t mention it?
• It seems to be assumed that because the Holy Spirit is referenced by Jesus and Paul and in both cases bringing knowledge, gifts or abilities, that it is part of God. Why is this?
• Is it possible that the ‘Holy Spirit’ could be an angel that delivers gifts from God? i.e. a messenger ? This is also not mentioned or supportable from the Bible but logically thinking I don’t see why God needs to be three entities? The angels have in the Bible delivered messages and performed the will of God.
• To be God, God must be able to do all things, know all things, hear all things, see all things, create all things, be omniscient and omnipresent. So if the three entities are all able to do all this, then why are there three persons? Or do they have different abilities? If each entity is restricted in what they can do, then can we really call them God?
• If Jesus is part of the Trinity within God then why does it say in John 20 (when Jesus reappears after death):
17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Jesus speaks to Mary Magdalene here and places himself on the same level as any human being in terms of being a subordinate to God.
• Why are we to believe that it is necessary to believe that Jesus Christ is your saviour through the blood he shed on the cross in order to be saved? Were the people of the Old Testament therefore not saved since they didn’t know Jesus and followed the law of Abraham and Moses?
• Do you think that when the Bible refers to ‘God’ it is referring to all three parts of the trinity? Or just to God the Father? In the Old Testament its merely ‘God’, there is no mention of Jesus as being part of this God. Surely if this was a misunderstanding in the Old Testament times, then Jesus being on earth would have explained the situation so there is no confusion?
• Is the Bible divinely inspired? I would have thought it is because how else would we know what happened at the start of creation (lets assume here that the Bible is correct for all you Darwinists ) Genesis 1: 2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. and what God thought about things. etc. There was no man around to write this down so it must have been given to a messenger from God. Now if the book is divinely inspired then what right have we as humans to change the message of God? Can anyone say for sure that nothing has been changed or added? Can anyone list for me all the things that have been amended/added/removed even within the last 100 years by different publishers? So how can we trust a book which has been changing throughout history?
• If the Trinity is comprised of three distinct persons that isn't it true to say that God is actually divisible? In other words, when Jesus was on earth, part of God was on earth, God the Father was in Heaven or wherever He resides and the Spirit was floating around somewhere. But how can God be divided up? How can the one God become three separate beings, I mean one person + one person + one person = one God??

Medina

Also I'm not understanding why T-1111111 was banned. Could explain this to me as I don't want to fall into the same trap myself. But I didn't see him doing anything wrong in this thread

Dades

Medina wrote:

Also I'm not understanding why T-1111111 was banned. Could explain this to me as I don't want to fall into the same trap myself. But I didn't see him doing anything wrong in this thread

I may be wrong here, but it could to do with using multiple accounts. Doesn't T-111s posting style seem familiar to one or two others here?

Victor

Medina wrote:

• There is no passage in the Bible where it is explained that the Holy Spirit and God the Father are separate entities. If I say to someone 'I'm there with you in spirit' that doesn't mean there are two Medinas does it? Why are we so convinced that they are separate ‘persons’?

Perhaps ‘persons’ isn't the appropriate word. ‘Persona(s)’ would be better.

Just like Sylverster Stallone is Rocky is Rambo is Judge Dredd is John Spartan ...... or to be less facetious, just like a shopkeeper is an authority figure to his customers, a father to his children, but a little boy to is mother.

Asiaprod

Medina wrote:

Also I'm not understanding why T-1111111 was banned. Could explain this to me as I don't want to fall into the same trap myself. But I didn't see him doing anything wrong in this thread

Very simple, T-1111111 and babyvio are one and the same entities.
That is a no no and is the main reason.

Victor

Asiaprod wrote:

Very simple, T-1111111 and babyvio are one and the same entities.

You mean the same way God and the Holy Spirit are one and the same entities? :shock:

Dades

Victor wrote:

You mean the same way God and the Holy Spirit are one and the same entities? :shock:

Hehe that's it.

So it follows that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit all share the same IP address... Cosmic!

Medina

And yet no one has tried to answer any of my qeustions

Victor, the thing is the Catholic Church says that God the Father and the Holy Spirit are three persons.

Personae now is a very different thing and we both know that.

Tell me how can Jesus be God and the Son of God at the same time??
How can the Holy Spirit lead Jesus? If Jesus was God/Son of God he wouldn't need the Holy Spirit would He?

Asiaprod

The Atheist wrote:

Hehe that's it.

So it follows that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit all share the same IP address... Cosmic!

Oh dear, do I have to ban God from Boards. i.e for using a triplicate account too?:D

<its a joke>

ISAW

Medina wrote:

Also I'm not understanding why T-1111111 was banned. Could explain this to me as I don't want to fall into the same trap myself. But I didn't see him doing anything wrong in this thread

This is not the subject under discussion.
take it up with a moderator by PM or start a thread about the charter but dont waste our time posting it here.

ISAW

Medina wrote:

And yet no one has tried to answer any of my qeustions

Victor, the thing is the Catholic Church says that God the Father and the Holy Spirit are three persons.

Personae now is a very different thing and we both know that.

Tell me how can Jesus be God and the Son of God at the same time??
How can the Holy Spirit lead Jesus? If Jesus was God/Son of God he wouldn't need the Holy Spirit would He?

RE read the threads and you will note several places where your questions were already answered.

You are beginning to sound like the duality who kept asking those self same questions.

Medina

You're gone very nasty all of a sudden aren't you.

ISAW

Medina wrote:

You're gone very nasty all of a sudden aren't you.

Is the "You" singular or plural?

Lok if you claim something wasnt answered then repost it with a reference to where it was originally posted.

it does not help any debate if you keep posting the same questions and claim they were not answered when you dont show where they were originally posted.

if you ae here to ask sincere questions then fire away. if you are here with opposing beliefs and intent to try and point out "flaws" in christianity then fire away but at least be honest that that is where you are coming from. christians tolerate other beliefs. we blieve in forgiveness and redemption and not just punishment.

philologos

This might be an ignorant interpretation to some but in the Trinity of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit, I would consider the Holy Spirit to be the motivation that drove Christians or the Christian feeling, it is a presence more than a being I suppose. I would have seen it as a link between the Father and the Son and the Christian people on Earth.