Dodgy people looking to buy pistols

newby.204

Was in a shop today to get some rounds and well , standin there at the counter when i walked in were, quite frankly, the two dodgiest lookin lads ive ever seen/heard puttin the deposit down on a Sig P226 9mm. Im all for people gettin into the sport(shootin in general) but sweet merciful jesus, since people have found out you can get pistols in this country it isnt even funny how many people see themselves as the next John McClane(die hard). Whatever happened to startin small?? I admit i was ambitious to say the least in my first two firearms semi-auto berreta 12g(now an O/U12g) + .22 wmr b/a
(hopefully one more next year and that will be my lot). I think some sort of standardised training needs to be set up or a probationary period with a club
( say six months with club guns and a letter from the club to your FAO to say your good to go or something) before you may purchase your own pistol.

demonloop

Couldn't agree more.

There should be 12 month probabtionary period in my opinion before any member of a club can apply for their own firearms, and a letter from club official stating they are good attenders, enthusiastic shooters etc etc

macnas

A 9mm is startin small:D

civdef

A lot of people have been saying this since the start.

Klunk

Paying a deposit on a pistol and getting a licence for the same article as we all know are two completely different matters:D

Clare gunner

Not to mind judgeing books by their covers.:D

newby.204

well yea you could be right there except when i was in the shop a few words came out of their mouths that scared me, ".357" and "self-defence", not practical pistol or target shootin!!! They werent young either bout mid 30's

jaycee

Nobody wants idiots with firearms of any sort ..

This is where we depend on the backround Garda character checking to sort out the good guy's from the "goblins"
I also agree that some type of ownership ladder system would be good ...
Start with a long gun ..either .177 air rifle or .22lr and move up after you have gained some skill and experience .

Gerri

newby.204 wrote:

Was in a shop today to get some rounds and well , standin there at the counter when i walked in were, quite frankly, the two dodgiest lookin lads ive ever seen/heard puttin the deposit down on a Sig P226 9mm. Im all for people gettin into the sport(shootin in general) but sweet merciful jesus, since people have found out you can get pistols in this country it isnt even funny how many people see themselves as the next John McClane(die hard). Whatever happened to startin small?? I admit i was ambitious to say the least in my first two firearms semi-auto berreta 12g(now an O/U12g) + .22 wmr b/a
(hopefully one more next year and that will be my lot). I think some sort of standardised training needs to be set up or a probationary period with a club
( say six months with club guns and a letter from the club to your FAO to say your good to go or something) before you may purchase your own pistol.

This is why we need cloning, at least then we can have all shooters or potential shooters looking harmless and in no way threatening. Perhaps we could also check in the maternity hospitals and "get rid" of the "dodgy looking babies". Seriously, isn't it strange that we criticise the Gardai for being too stict in relation to firearms licensing and then we do not trust them to do a decent job of filtering out the "dodgy" characters. I suggest that all pistol applicants send their application to boards.ie with photograph so that we can all have a look and filter out the "dodgy" looking applicants before sending it to the Gardai for rubber stamping.

civdef

All very well Gerri, and the Guards do a good job filtering, but it is very true that the reintroduction of pistols has brought about a new crop of people suddenly interested in shooting who somehow never bothered before, and who in many cases, valid concerns exist about their motivation.

demonloop

civdef wrote:

All very well Gerri, and the Guards do a good job filtering, but it is very true that the reintroduction of pistols has brought about a new crop of people suddenly interested in shooting who somehow never bothered before, and who in many cases, valid concerns exist about their motivation.

Correct.

And as the thread starter said, 'self-defence' being even mentioned is all the info you need.

Is it wrong to judge a book by the cover? Perhaps, but in this case it looks like the cover had all the relevant info to form an opinion, and a correct one at that by the sounds of it.

You dont see many of these dodgy characters in looking to buy a .177 target air pistol do you?

That said, hopefully the authorities can weed out these guys before they do the sport real harm

Sparks

civdef wrote:

A lot of people have been saying this since the start.

Yup. And a lot of people then took lumps out of them over this "all shooters together" dogma.

newby.204 wrote:

well yea you could be right there except when i was in the shop a few words came out of their mouths that scared me, ".357" and "self-defence", not practical pistol or target shootin!!! They werent young either bout mid 30's

Hopefully they'll say the same thing to the Gardai.

Umiq88

Apart from the guarda the fire arms dealer should have some cop on not to be selling pistols to a customer mentioning the use for self defense

whupass

that is why there's the "don't like the look o' that" clause!

Chuck Norris CAN judge a book by it's cover!

mcguiver

I've spoken to a few of the dealers around Dublin, and they all reported a huge increase in enquiries from "dodgy characters" since pistols start getting licenced again.

I can definitely see a need for shooters to be able to prove that they are actively competing in contests, how many of us have met the shooter who "always wanted one or thinks it looks cool".

My fear is that these mupits will ruin it for all shooters.

Any suggestions on how to improve the system , please see below...


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054964401&referrerid=&highlight=

Clare gunner

Well,lets look at this somwhat realistically.If these "dodgey chacters" were talking about a 357 and self defence,and they go and apply with that in their local cop shop,that is as far as the application is going to go anyway.
Second,if they just want this as a fashion accessory ,etc.The clued in gun dealer [who obviously must be able to make snap chacter assesments on his customers nowadays.]Should build in huge difficulties into his sales pitch for a handgun,like the intense backround checks,the many months of training required,etc, etc.That should discourage all but the most determined ligit people.
Guess how many dealers will do that to the better of society or lose a sale?
Third;why would said dodgey chacters be botherd going thru legal hassle ,when they could aquire one for a couple hundred euros in a pub somwhere??
More likely they might be casing the shops to see who has handguns in stock and who would it be worth turning the gunshop and owner over for the stock.If some dealers correlleated the descriptions of chacters,you might find a pattern emerging.

Gerri

civdef wrote:

All very well Gerri, and the Guards do a good job filtering, but it is very true that the reintroduction of pistols has brought about a new crop of people suddenly interested in shooting who somehow never bothered before, and who in many cases, valid concerns exist about their motivation.

So now we have the boards.ie police to ensure that all applicants meet OUR high standards instead of just enjoying our sport and leaving policing to the Gardai? Next step is to prohibit anyone who could potentially be a boy racer from having access to cars etc.etc.

Isn't it nice to know that everyone who currently has a firearm leaves it securely locked away every night and also that nobody who has a pistol licence is carrying their pistol while working or socialising. I have personally met a guy who had a Walther .22 in his pocket while enjoying a pint in a pub. I am sure he wasn't carrying it for "self defense", probably just forgot to leave it at home while he went out for the night. So what is the correct course of action in this instance? Call the Gardai? Bawl him out? Take the pistol from him? Tell the publican? Or perhaps suggest that he drink orange instead, lest he gets aggressive and starts shooting up the place? Suggestions anyone?

civdef

I am sure he wasn't carrying it for "self defense", probably just forgot to leave it at home while he went out for the night.

I honestly can't tell if you are being ironic there, but if you're not, that excuse is right up there with "the dog ate my homework".

So what is the correct course of action in this instance? Call the Gardai? Bawl him out? Take the pistol from him? Tell the publican? Or perhaps suggest that he drink orange instead, lest he gets aggressive and stars shooting up the place? Suggestions anyone?

Any or all of the above could be appropriate in the circumstances.

I don't think some peole get that all it's going to take is for one licenced pistol owner to do something stupid, and that's it for the rest of us.

Umiq88

I dont think every dealer around the country is so desperate for a sale that he would sell a pistol to anyone in the country who walks into the shop. Obviously its not up to the dealer to screen all the people that buy things off him but in this case when the guy wanted to buy a pistol for self defense alarm bells should have been ringing in the dealers head.

Gerri the point was that dealers shouldnt sell guns to people coming into a shop looking for a pistol just because they're after watching some movie and think id like one of them or something. Fair enough its the guards job to sort them out but people like that do the sport no favours and its just as easy for the dealer to refuse selling a gun to someone who obviously has no intention of using the gun as a sporting firearm.

And yes i would like to think anyone with a firearm would have it locked away securely while its not int use. Had a shooting mate of mine gone to the pub with a pistol in his pocket i would have told him to go straight home and lock it away otherwise would have called the police had he not done this. Had i caught him twice i would recommend to the guards to revoke his licence. Bringing a gun to a pub or any public place is utterly stupid and consuming alcohol while in possession of a firearm is insanity

It only takes little things like that to get the whole sport banned and then where would we be

jaycee

don't think some peole get that all it's going to take is for one licenced pistol owner to do something stupid, and that's it for the rest of us.

Sorry Civ, that may well be true for all I know but that dosen't make any more sense than saying that if one licenced driver has a crash ..we all lose our cars.

However, it is important that responsible shooters distance themselves from the type of attitude and behaviour mentioned and maybe be involved in a little "Police assistance" where called for.

Shooters or not ..we have a duty as citizens to report unsafe or potentially dangerous behaviour, Only by this will we be taken seriously as people whose interests are in sport and totally unconnected with unlawful use of firearms.

I generally have to reassemble my firearms when I arrive at the range , Magazines , Bolt .. Slide ..etc. depending on the firearm in question.

civdef

Sorry Civ, that may well be true for all I know but that dosen't make any more sense than saying that if one licenced driver has a crash ..we all lose our cars.

Pistol shooting has a precarious position, wouldn't take much at all to have it all stopped again. Is complacency setting in regarding this? If so, it's unwarranted in my opinion.

newby.204

jaycee wrote:

Sorry Civ, that may well be true for all I know but that dosen't make any more sense than saying that if one licenced driver has a crash ..we all lose our cars.

I think maybe jaycee your being a bit naive in that statement, this country, as with most western countries, would shut down without cars, never going to be taken away no matter how many road deaths. However the goverment/doj doesnt need pistol shooting economically it wouldnt affect the country if a policy of non-issue/reissue was introduced. And quite frankly i think they are waiting for that one idiot who shouldnt have got through the system to f!*k it up for us!!!!!

rrpc

This is where the new firearms act puts the onus on target shooring clubs. You cannot own a pistol unless you are a member of an authorised target shooting club, and if you cease to be a member, the club must inform the Gardai.

The premise being that 'dodgy characters' are weeded out by the clubs and either don't get membership in the first place, or if the people just join for the purpose of obtaining a certificate, they will lose it if they quit.

(7) Any person who holds a firearm certificate and who is found to no longer fulfil the conditions under section 4 (1)(d) or section 4(3) above shall be guilty of an offence.

Sparks

Why do I keep remembering Hungerford reading Gerri's post? Ryan shot people with an air rifle for weeks before the massacre. He was disciplined in work for showing up with a hunting knife and pistol for "self-defence" for work. And eventually, after several incidents which on their own would have been enough to have his firearms confiscated, he went on a rampage and killed sixteen people.

We either grow up and regulate ourselves, or we will be regulated by outside agencies less sympathetic to our sport and if that happens, we will be decidedly worse off than we are now.

jaycee

Ok.. perhaps I should have made my point more clearly .

Civ: I am so far from complacent as to be practically paranoid, I am alarmed though by comments that indicate a mindset where careful and responsible shooters should expect to lose their firearms as a result of the actions of one or more "Dodgy" persons.

I fully realise the economic differences to the state between firearm ownership and car ownership, I was trying to draw a comparison with another lawful activity we are engaged in and how unjust it would be to lose your car because of the activitys of joyriders.

That is essentially my point ... I think it is dangerous to foster the notion that one incident by a "looper" and the jig is up. I would rather be seen to be proactive in assisting the Gardaí to regulate the people who have been cleared by them to obtain firearms certificates.

We need to develop a strong working interactive relationship between the clubs and the Gardaí to show that we are monitoring the activitys and conduct of shooters with the safety of all as our first concern. We who have constant contact with other shooters are best placed to spot some early signs of trouble .

Towards that end a quick audit of attendance records by the clubs will quickly reveal those members who joined solely to get licenced , but rarely if ever attended thereafter. Those people have obviously little interest in target shooting and therefore their motives for getting a firearm are open to question.

It might sound harsh , but I believe it is nessesary to be "Seen" to be active in avoiding trouble .

Clare gunner

Taking a good guess at Human nature,I do belive a dealer would"sell" a firearm to anyone here.Getting a liscense for it and walking out of the shop with it is another story!!!That isnt the dealers job as to decide if a chacter is dodgey or not.That is the police job.We have a really nasty habit of pre piegon holing people in Ireland.Bald,tattoos,etc=gurrier.Clean suit,tie,flash car=well trustworthy type OR biggest gangster going.
Agree up to a point about self policing,eg this chacter walking around with a 22 in his pocket.Not somthing you oversee easily.And if we are going to cooperate with the Gardai,if say one of us is caught drinking and driving.Will they voulantary surrender their guns for the time they are off the road???
In Europe,you lose your guns as well as your driving liscense.Stands to reason,you cant be trusted with a car,can you be trusted with a gun??

BUT herein lieth the rub.You report this to the Gardai,Will they follow this up???We have a vertiable flow of illegal fireworks coming into the South at the moment,but apart from lots of "tough new laws"[A most totally hackneyd phrase by now] to combat this,diddly squat in arrests,etc.So making all the laws you want,it means nothing unless it is enforced.Same thing with the club rules thing.How many times does somone have to go to their club to not be considerd a dodgey chacter.Some people are not club charlies ,[I am] and might be only able to get down to it once a month or twice a month.Does that immedaitely make them a Hamilton[who lived in the club virtually] or a Ryan?We have to stop prejudgeing the dodgey chacters by looks and look more at the normal quiet blokes,methinks.

Klunk

Well, a good friend of mine who already has a firearms cert has just waited ten months for his pistol licence. If that doesn't put poeple off who are looking 357's and the likes as a fashion accessory I don't know what will:eek: .

jaycee

BUT herein lieth the rub.You report this to the Gardai,Will they follow this up?

Well I would hope so , but I think that any verbal report of unwanted behaviour should be followed up with a written copy .Written reports tend to get acted on and also leave a paper trail which can be useful if everything get's pear shaped.

flight93

I think that the screening process for applicants is erratic at best. I know people who are genuine enthusiasts who have had major problems getting a licence. On the other hand I know people who have nowhere to use a pistol that have had no problem getting a licence. It depends on what station you live near and therefore are applying to.

In my club a couple joined, they shot every single Sunday for a year. After the year was up they recieved a letter from the club saying that they were reccomended by the club and were full members. This enabled them to get thier own firearms (a rifle each I think). After this event they ere never seen again. They as far as we are aware had nowhere else to shoot (they had said this during the year). A committe member rang the cops to inform them of the situation. Result: No action taken by the cops.

I really believe that one nutter could ruin it for us all. Joe and Jane Public is unaware that pistols are legeally available. They will vote for any politician that would want all pistols recalled in the event of some nut doing something daft.

I dont think it is fair to blame the gun dealers, having said that if I were a firearms dealer and I heard "self defence" from someone trying to buy a firearm I would make the police aware of it.

I bought sevral firearms from the North without meeting the dealer until I went to collect the gun. It would have been very hard for him to form an opinion of me.

I think as responsible shooters we should report things to the police that we think could endanger the future of our sport.

I also think that if you are experienced, perhaps passed safety courses and can prove that you have a safe place to shoot as wel las secure storage for your pistol you should be allowed to have one. Even if you dont compete in big competitions or shoot that often.

Kryten

I agree that if club committees come across one of these unsavoury "LOOKING" characters trying to join up, that they firstly get to talk to the guy to determine his intentions. It is true that one of the dodgiest fe****s wanting to join a club, could be one of the next international champions. Conversly, one of the most sensible looking blokes, who may have done time in the reserves or PDF, FAMILY MAN 2.4 Children etc, could be a trouble making headbanger!.

Any club that I have been a guest at or a competition, has a range attendance book which you sign. So if it comes to the crunch, the authorities can see which shooters are serious about their sport and which shooters are not.

Just my thoughts. ( Did I say that out loud?)

Clare gunner

We will be dammed either way.Too little attendance,media spin;lone nut,solitary figure who lived with his instruments of death ,etc etc.Joined just to get the liscense
Club Charley[Hamilton type] lives on the range every other day etc;Was a make belive Rambo,practised every week for his killing mission,no one in the club thought him odd firing off hundreds of thousands of rounds a week,etc.
Lets face it, unless the prospective dodgy chacter has just decended from the trees,going "me want gun,gun good,me want gun!"We are not going to spot a prospective nutjob,unless the club has a pre condition that every month each member has to go to a club appointed head shrinker.
The trouble with "following up" everything by the Gardai is have they the time to do so as well?Unless there is for want of a better term "clearand present danger" they wont/cant follow up everything.Unless it somthing important like issueing summons for parking offences.[Scarcasm mine].

What is to say that this report the situation of non seen club members like Flight 93 describes,isnt used as a petty get even stunt by the club??[Not implying that in flights case it is].Club members leave,why?possibly had a tiff about somthing in the club or whatever.Somone decides on the comittiee to "fix" them.Rings the Gardai to cause hassle.Happens quite often in our society.Unless this clause becomes law,and we are going around like in former Soviet Russia spying on each other for any sign of deviation from the system.We will not only not attract new people,bur lose a good few established shooters as well.
THEN we have the situation like the Irish practical pistol folks.We dont have an established range or "club" per se.Possibly we see each other once or twice a year on different host ranges.Does that make us all nut jobs or dodgy?? As such going by the law we shouldnt exist at all here.Yet we do.
All in all ,the laws etc sound great in theory,but the practical side is still very difficult to impliment.

Sparks

We are not going to spot a prospective nutjob,unless the club has a pre condition that every month each member has to go to a club appointed head shrinker.

Except that by the time Dunblane happened, Hamilton had already been kicked out of several clubs for being dodgy. Had the police actually listened... well. We could play that game all day.

What is to say that this report the situation of non seen club members like Flight 93 describes,isnt used as a petty get even stunt by the club?

The libel laws are the first thing that jump to mind. If the club is lying about their attendance or making untoward claims, the libel laws would let you prosecute the club rather effectively. Doubtless there are several other legal avenues as well.

THEN we have the situation like the Irish practical pistol folks.We dont have an established range or "club" per se.

The IPSC do - Newry. And aren't the MNSCI approved, and isn't Hilltop?

All in all ,the laws etc sound great in theory,but the practical side is still very difficult to impliment.

Such is all law CG Trick here will be to implement it in a way that keeps everyone happy, both us and the (much, much larger number of) non-firearm-owners...

Dr_Teeth

At the risk of sounding like one of these 'dodgy people', I'd actually like to try pistol target shooting. I've been reading this board for a while now but still don't have much of an idea where to go.

I live near Dublin city centre. Are there any clubs/ranges near-by I could join that would let me try out this sport for a few months to see if I really enjoyed it before I made an investment?

Cheers,
Teeth.

Sparks

In the city centre, you're out of luck Doc. Nearest might be UCD if you were a UCD alumni, and you could start off with air pistol there. Next nearest, you're looking at leaving the city, and really, heading for Wicklow or Meath. There, you'd have several options; Hilltop, East Coast, Eagles and a few others in Wicklow; Courtlough, Wilkinstown (air pistol again) and a few others in the other direction.

Dr_Teeth

Yeah that's what I thought. It's unfortunate that I work in Dublin, my family are from Donaghpatrick only a few minutes from Wilkinstown. Any chance of someone writing a Stickie post of the details of these clubs/ranges btw?

Clare gunner

[

QUOTE=Sparks]Except that by the time Dunblane happened, Hamilton had already been kicked out of several clubs for being dodgy. Had the police actually listened... well. We could play that game all day.

QED

The libel laws are the first thing that jump to mind. If the club is lying about their attendance or making untoward claims, the libel laws would let you prosecute the club rather effectively. Doubtless there are several other legal avenues as well.

Well, the first thing is proving that,if the sec or whomever had a word in a local Sgts ear,no writing.Just acting on an anymonous tipoff Sir.

The IPSC do - Newry. And aren't the MNSCI approved, and isn't Hilltop?

Well, in the 26 counties??NI is a different land,wether we like it or not.

Such is all law CG Trick here will be to implement it in a way that keeps everyone happy, both us and the (much, much larger number of) non-firearm-owners...

Indeedy,crack that one and you havea good chance of predicting six right next Sat!!:D

flight93

If the individuals I described used the club for no other reason than to get firearms certificates, as it seems they did and they did something daft, our club might feel that something should be said. After an incident members might say"yeah, we felt that they just joined to get a licence, but we felt the gardai would be too busy to want to know".

A remark like that might in some cases show a pattern of some sort to the gardai, you never know. It also shows that the club genuinely cares about what sort of members it has, I think this is very important.

maglite

can i just compaire for a moment an expieriance i had in florida over the week

we went to a local gun store noxt to an emegration office and 8 bail bond agencies,,
then we enquired about the range facilitiey to be handed a gun and told that would be $30, now the gun was a full auto M4 and the only instruction i got was trigger,, safety off,, point squeeze...bang

oi and dont load until you go in ,,
at this point i was now a stranger holding a auto M4 with 50 rounds oif ammo within 3 feet of the door....


total oppisate colture to what we have here
i also got my hands on a glock 9mm a 38 spl a p22 a tech 9 and an MP5



contrast that to what we have here and you will not think the people here a shady

flight93

I understand what you are saying, but do we really want to end up with a situation like that here? It will just take one sh!thead to ruin everything here for us.

Clare gunner

Well, lets put this into perspective.You have 50 rnds in a M4.You are in a Class3 gunstore,in a concealed carry state.
80% chance that gunstore owners are carrying handguns or within 10ft of a loaded weapon.And will know how to use them.[
Logical saftey procedure INMHO,having armed people around a large amount of firearms and ammo.You never know what nut might walk in]
Gunstore is next to 8 bailbond agencies.After having done fugitive recovery,or in non PC terms Bounty hunting.You can be assured there will be at least four or five well armed chacters in or around those agencies,who are ex military or police or NRA firearms instructors,who proably are the gunstores regular customers,and will be a tad peed off if somthing daft might happen to their arms supplier.
Next you are next door to a Federal building[IE the Emigration office] There will be at least one armed uniformed security gaurd and possibly three plain clothes DOE agents at any given time in the building. Not to mind how many possible concealed carry folks could be in the area.
There is NO COMPARISION between the US and Ireland in gun laws,carrying,etcThey dont have to worry about a "sport"image over there.
It is a constitutional right.
Sure go ahead,with your 50 rnds[2 20 rnd mags].You will not get very far in a district like that.

Kryten

Whilst living in Arizona in 1998, I joined Caswell shooting club in Mesa.
Excellent facility. The staff there were very safety conscious. And yes openly carrying loaded pistols for security.

Same at a club near the airport in San Fransisco. Myself and 2 other Irish lads walked in off the street wanting to do some handgun shooting.

The guy behind the counter was very cagey about us and would'nt entertain us until he ascertained my safe handling of an unloaded firearm, carrying out safety precautions, questions about safety and a short inquiry of my firearms experience.

So maybe Florida is just not as strict, or the guy in there just did'nt care!!!!

Sparks

Clare gunner wrote:

Sure go ahead,with your 50 rnds[2 20 rnd mags].You will not get very far in a district like that.

Frankly, in that gun store owner's shoes, I wouldn't be worried about him not getting very far, I'd be worried about a few rounds of .223 fmj coming towards me at a fair rate of knots. The idea of giving a complete stranger a loaded M4 in that context strikes me as being a complete failure of the self-preservation instinct, not to mention a dereliction of all manner of duties of care to the point of depraved indifference and I'd be bloody shocked if any firearms dealer in Ireland would do something so unbelievably and fundamentally stupid.

Vegeta

Sparks wrote:

Frankly, in that gun store owner's shoes, I wouldn't be worried about him not getting very far, I'd be worried about a few rounds of .223 fmj coming towards me at a fair rate of knots. The idea of giving a complete stranger a loaded M4 in that context strikes me as being a complete failure of the self-preservation instinct, not to mention a dereliction of all manner of duties of care to the point of depraved indifference and I'd be bloody shocked if any firearms dealer in Ireland would do something so unbelievably and fundamentally stupid.

well in fairness sparks Ireland isn't much better i could walk in to any gun shop in Ireland with a few 12g cartridges in my pocket, after a chat and a smile i could ask to handle a shotgun and have it loaded, til empty and gun robbed before the shop keeper could do anything.

of course i'd want a screw loose to do that but again we are talking about people who have lost the plot

Clare gunner

Truthfully, there are quite a few DEAD robbers who have decided to rob gun stores in the US. Looks can decive over there. How many dead robbers are there of gun shops in Ireland????Frankly it is a doddle to knock over a gun shop over here.I mean what will the owner do?Shoot you??
Just because maglite describes this as indifference does not mean that it is.Plus if you dont know how to use FA,your 50 will be gone in a one minute mag change.FA is not a magic wand either.For all we know the guy could have had a fully loaded chopped 12GA under the counter.I'd give you nil chance of surviving that in a store range.
Anyway,unless Maglite is a dodgy chacter ,isnt this going OT.We cant compare the US and IRL on any level in shooting,or on RKBA.

arybvtcw0eolkf

newby.204 wrote:

They werent young either bout mid 30's

Damn you :mad:

I'm 40

Catcher86

civdef wrote:

All very well Gerri, and the Guards do a good job filtering, but it is very true that the reintroduction of pistols has brought about a new crop of people suddenly interested in shooting who somehow never bothered before, and who in many cases, valid concerns exist about their motivation.

Quite right civdef, there has been a new crop of people suddenly interested in shooting with the reintroduction of pistols, and I'am one of them.
I have thought about taking up shooting for some time, but the firearms available did'nt really give me much interest to pursue it further.
Maybe its the effect that Hollywood has had, but I have always had an interest in pistols. Maybe Hollywood is to blame for other peoples sudden interest as well.

I cant see any motivation for any serious criminal wanting to obtain a license, considering the amount of automatic and semi-automatic weapons they appear to have available to them on the evidence over the past few years.
It would have to be a pretty stupid criminal who would get a license for criminal purposes, because all they would be doing is creating a paper trail, which would just make them easier to convict.

I think some of this post is relevant to the thread on the High Court case.
I dont think that now I will bother going to my local station and asking for a license for say a sig p226. I would actually feel guilty doing so.
I should probably just apply for a low calibre rifle first, to prove that I am worthy.

foxhunter

Down here in our club rules state that all members of the club must be known by at least two other members before you are even considered for membership.
If after you have applied and been accepted in you must use the club pistol or if someone is willing to let you shoot theirs for a period of six months then if you have shown yourself to be of good character and the commitee are happy with your progress you will recieve a letter to state that .This then accompanies the application for the fac .
This policy has stood up well to the test so far and we have a good crew down here.
But as far as dodgy characters goes we have had plenty trying to get in but so far we have done a good job on the weeding ourselves .

freddieot

Catcher I can understand how you feel. There are a lot of people like you who for one reason or another suddenly have an interest in shooting pistol who in the past never would have been interested in say .22 Rifle or Shotgun. I believe that the main reason involved is for self-defence rather than some strange criminal conspiracy.

Naturally, those of us who have been shooting for years, maybe starting off with small calibre rifles or shotguns and dreaming of shooting pistol etc. feel a bit, lets say, suspicious, when people want to get directly involved with pistol shooting.

I appreciate the Hollywood factor, always wanted a pistol myself but obviously could not get one until a couple of years ago.

Unfortunately, experience with several clubs is that once they grant membership to someone who wants to shoot pistol and that person secures their FC, they tend not to show up to practice all that often, if at all. This further feeds the assumption that what the individual wanted was something for self defence rather than for target shooting.

To be clear on this, Irish law has no provision for an individual to possess a firearm for self-defence (except when specially issued by the State). They are allowed only for hunting or target shooting. Also, one loose cannon or pistol in this case could result in a clampdown and that is partly what motivates the shooting community to be causious surrounding the pistol issue as well as of course responsibility generally to the public safety.

However, don't feel guilty about anything. As a citizen you are as entitled as anyone else to a pistol licence, provided you fulfill the same conditions as another individual. If you have a desire to go and join a target club then seek them out and also discuss the pistol issue with your local Firearms Officer. I also know that part of the problem is that many clubs won't entertain you if they think that you just want to use them to get a licence. Think about joining and using Club Guns or as you suggested youself, getting a .22 Rifle to start with and seeing how you get on with that. You could find that the novelty wears off !

By the way, whatever about using Club Guns, using a Firearm belonging to another person does put you in breach of Firearms Regulations whether it's for one shot or 6 months etc. (Don't go down that road).

Catcher86

Freddie, I can fully appreciate what you are saying and where you are coming from.
I can assure you that I am aware of what the law says in regards with possesion of a firearm and self-defense.
I can also assure you that I have no interest in possesing a firearm for self-defense purposes.
My interest is purely for sporting and competition purposes.

V Bull

I agree totally with Freddie, however, it is not an offence to instruct a person on the safety and use of a firearm and allow them to fire under instruction if you are an instructor at an approved firing range. I cleared this point with my FO recently.

Another point, dodgie looking people....... I went down to my shooting club one Saturday morning, signed in and got permission to shoot on the pistol range, was told there was another shooter already there...... Went into the pistol range and saw this guy, dodgie is not the word. He had tattoos all over him, ear rings to beat the band, you name it, he had it stickin' out of him........ I watched him for a while and then asked him if I could join the firing line. In a very gruf reply he said yeh go ahead and set up. We shot for a while and then began talking about our pistols. Well, to be honest, his handling, safety awearness and knowledge of firearms, ammo, shooting skills were second to none, he knew what he was talkin' about. We have since become very good friends. SO NEVER JUDGE A BOOK BY THE COVER OR HOW IT SOUNDS.

Another day on the rifle range I was shooting away with my 6.5 when I noticed the two guys down the line had pistols hanging under their jackets in shoulder holsters. These guys have been shooting for years, well known to other members and in their mid 30's-40 bracket, responsable and respectfull shooters one might say. Not at all. When asked why carry the pistols like that they said "you never know when you might need it". again NEVER JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER.

GilGrissom

By the way, whatever about using Club Guns, using a Firearm belonging to another person does put you in breach of Firearms Regulations whether it's for one shot or 6 months etc. (Don't go down that road).

How are you covered to use a clubs guns if you don't hold a FAC? Are you not supposed to get one of these training certs?