Season 3, Episode 5: Collaborators [SPOILERS]

User45701

Well from the name we can expect Tribunals and mabe a excutation or 2? not by command or by presdiant but by resistance members killing the human pollice or something and i cant wait to see how Tigh, Geta, Three, Six and Kara are doing

Lets also hope ratings will go back up this week.....

Scruff

Great Episode

*me taps fingers impatiently*
Come on cousins post faster!!!!!!!

Clover

Alright, Not What I Was Hoping For

good episode but it's hard to fill the shoes of last weeks one.

gandalf

Great Episode

Damn that was a good one

Venom

Alright, Not What I Was Hoping For

Good episode that was needed to get the main characters back to thier places in the fleet.

CatInABox

Good episode, nicely dealt with the the minor issues left over from the end of the occupation i.e. what to do with collaborators, and also set up the rest of the characters for the rest of the season.

Nicely done with Baltar as well. Loved the whole room watching him.

User45701

Great Episode

That was amazing brillent episode, loved the whole six undecided part
Tom Zarek was brillent in this episode he was 100% right and he played it very well.
I Still dont think that Tigh will be happy about this

Vokes

Great Episode

Superb opening scene. RIP Jammer That Zarek is one smart, slick son of a bitch.

I love where the character of Tigh is at at this moment time. No way can he be Adama's XO for the forseeable future - he's a loose cannon, definitely not the Tigh we knew from the end of season 2. Not an XO you can rely on.

I think this shows one of BSGss biggest strengths, great secondary characters like the Chief and Gaeta.

I suspect we'll back with the main characters next week - Roslin / Adama / Lee / Kara.

MisterAnarchy

Alright, Not What I Was Hoping For

Good episode,covered a few storylines and did it well.
Quarter way thru the series already,wow it has flown by .

Pugsley

Alright, Not What I Was Hoping For

Excellent episode, the Gaita sentencing scene's were excellent, both coming to the decision and carrying it out, real highlight of the episode imo.

I love where the character of Tigh is at at this moment time. No way can he be Adama's XO for the forseeable future - he's a loose cannon, definitely not the Tigh we knew from the end of season 2. Not an XO you can rely on.

I think thats what makes BSG so great, Tigh has genuinely changed because of his experiances on New Caprica, remember he did execute his wife, you dont shrug something like that off, and carry on unchanged.

Quite liked Adama's reaction when Lee said "Ive lost half a stone", bit of a low blow, real tough love there. Zarek was also damn good, for the few scene's he had, doing the trials behind the back of Adama just suits his charecter to a T, great stuff. As for Jammer, shame to see him go, kinda liked him, he had some great moments in the webisodes.

Scruff

Great Episode

Fantastic episode albeit in a different way than the previous 4. Zarek is one slick single minded sob. How did he become president though? Cant remember but was he vice president in SE2 before the cylons arrived?

Really strong story line on how fracked up everyone is following the occupation. Only question is how will they move on from this later in the seas
son?

loving it so far. Must go buy SE1+2 on DVD to do my bit to help keep this great show going!

User45701

Great Episode

same im picking up the dvds t the end of the month

Zerek was presdiant becaus the vice presdiant takes over when the president is lost or missing

Vokes

Great Episode

Actually, I see this as Season 3's Litmus episode. Remember back then, it was the Chief who was the one under the spotlight and whose loyalties were under question. Its remarkable to see how things have changed so much since.

Plus, anyone else lovin the Great Cylon Eye in Baltar's 'cell' - awesomeness

Goodshape

Alright, Not What I Was Hoping For

Great episode.

Thought the Gaita sentencing thing was handled a little poorly though, stopped the episode getting an 'Amazing' vote for me. It was all just very obvious and they took far too long getting to the, again, obvious conclusion of that one. Maybe if they hadn't actually shown us that it was Gaita delivering the info in earlier episodes it would have worked better. Never for a second thought they were going to kill him.

Aside from that everything was top-notch. Some really interesting stuff going on, can't wait to see where these story lines go.

Pugsley

Alright, Not What I Was Hoping For

Goodshape wrote:

Never for a second thought they were going to kill him.

I actually thought they were going to kill him, and later Starbuck would mention the dog bowl thing, and the Chief would realise how badly they screwed up, could have made for a good plot line.

User45701

Great Episode

thats the thing with this show u never know?

the cylon eye was very good ye and i just watched limitus yesterday and i noticed that aswell

thelordofcheese

Alright, Not What I Was Hoping For

Good, but not great. Like people have said, the whole crux of the episode, Gaita being sentanced to death or not, was a bit of a no brainer. I could never see them actually killing them, Jammers execution was the bit where their motives were being questioned, if they were actually 'right'. gaita's bit was just so they could have that character back and that Zareks order could be uncovered.

That said, the fact the tigh is now unfit for duty could make things interesting, maybe if lee keeps jumping rope for a few more episodes, he'll get the XO's spot. That said, it's be interseting to see what tigh would do, with pratically nothing left for him on galactica.

And the fact that BSG is now overcrowded should make for some good episodes

aidan_r

Shame Could Have Been Much Better

i wonder if roslins pardon extends to balthar and if thats what his dream was about

User45701

Great Episode

even if it does i dont see how they can get him back even if they wanted 2

5 bastestars and 1 ressurection ship, after last resurectrion ships destruction the cylons will keep all 5 basestars there. and even if they did send 1 basestar off on a mission they would be no reason to have baltar on it its more likley he will be kept in the large fleet eith the cyon leadership

iguana

Alright, Not What I Was Hoping For

Pugsley wrote:

I actually thought they were going to kill him, and later Starbuck would mention the dog bowl thing, and the Chief would realise how badly they screwed up, could have made for a good plot line.

See, to me I felt that they had already done that with Jammer's death when he told Chief he saved Callie and Chief was obviously upset when that was confirmed for him after Jammer's death. If he helped kill Gaeta and then found out that he was his informant after his death it would have been too similar.

I agree with Goodshape that it would have been better if we had never known that Gaeta was the informant. In fact all the flashbacks to them exchanging the information were pretty unnecessary as we only saw it happening 3 episodes ago. They seemed like the kind of scenes you'd normally see if Gaeta's involvement was being revealed to the audience at the same time as Chief.

Overall it was a pretty good episode. I loved the way it was revealed that Zarek had given the order. Especially as I had been wondering why the "jury" were saying that they had just 3 more days to complete their judging and executions. It was a real slap your forehead, "Of Course!!!" moment.

Zarek's reasoning isn't that surprising however, and neither was his refusal to collaborate on Caprica despite the danger to himself which impressed Laura so much. He had spent his life fighting against injustices meted out on his planet. He was clever, brutal and not perfectly will ing to martyr himself for his cause.

Vulture

Alright, Not What I Was Hoping For

Loved it I wait impatiently for every new episode.

Praetorian

Shame Could Have Been Much Better

It was inbetween an alright episode and a great episode. I'd rate it good

User45701

Great Episode

aidan_r
D-Generate
monkeyfudge
murfie
Praetorian
zen63

Do you mind me asking you all what you did expect in this episode?

Goodshape

Alright, Not What I Was Hoping For

Maybe they were hoping for a 'Great' episode


...listened to the podcast for this episode last night. Was sort of disappointed to hear Ronald D. Moore say that a) this was, in his opinion at least, probably the darkest episode this season, and b) that many people told him this was their favourite episode of BSG to date.

I thought it was some way off either of those things myself. Still a great episode though.. just not without it's faults.

GinjaNinja

Terrible

before the flames begin.

good character building alright but the whole jury thing was a bit iffy. the fact they were able to use the airlock without peps on the ship knowing. come on.
The Gaita scene you could see a mile off.
Tigh is great though

aidan_r

Shame Could Have Been Much Better

User45701 wrote:

aidan_r
D-Generate
monkeyfudge
murfie
Praetorian
zen63

Do you mind me asking you all what you did expect in this episode?

maybe the poll shoulda had more options, i didn't think it was a 'great episode' so the next option down was 'alright, not what i was hoping for', i thought it was an alright episode, the 'not what i was hoping for' part doesn't apply to me

Khannie

Alright, Not What I Was Hoping For

I thought this was a pretty enjoyable episode. I gave it a 4 in the poll.

What's clear to me about myself (my wife pointed it out to me) and others on here I'm sure, is that I've come to expect a lot from BSG. This has an obvious downside...

You walk into a film in the cinema expecting a lot, and it's good, you come out pleased enough. You go in expecting nothing and it's good, you come out thinking it was fantastical. I think we've all probably hit the point where our expectations have been set by the amazing standard from day one and that affects how we perceive each episode.

User45701

Great Episode

true next time ill make the poll better but i still didnt get my question anserd

besides us having never known geta was the informent what would have made this episode better?

TerrorFirmer

Alright, Not What I Was Hoping For

Thought it was a good episode. Almost as good as Episode IV, but I did say in the thread about that particular episode, while good, wasn't as amazing to me as others thought it was.

Very predictable though. Poor Jammer though....

And you have to love Baltar. What a character. Now that he's "in", I can't wait to see what follows.

Stark

Alright, Not What I Was Hoping For

HavoK wrote:

Poor Jammer though....

"Too cute to die" should have been a legal defence.

I definitely love that the Baltar situation has come to what it was in the original disco series but that this time we see the character's motivations. Rather than "I'm going to destroy the whole of humankind and live with these lizard created human monsters as I'm evil and that's the sort of fun thing to do when you're evil".

Johnny Storm

Shame Could Have Been Much Better

I thought this was the inexpensive "ship-in-a-bottle" ep exactly as predicted by other posters last week.
I hope they can keep finding interesting development for Tigh. IMHO they really need to do something with Starbuck, she's just a PIA at the moment. At first I thought she was going undercover at the "court".
I completely missed the Great Cylon Eye - must try harder!

murfie

Shame Could Have Been Much Better

User45701 wrote:

aidan_r
D-Generate
monkeyfudge
murfie
Praetorian
zen63

Do you mind me asking you all what you did expect in this episode?

I voted alright for the same reasons aidan_r did, if it was a 1-10 poll i would have gave it a 7 maybe. I voted amazing for exodus episodes and this one was no way as good as the 2 part exodus so i couldnt give it the same rating as alot of people are.

I found it very predictable as has been mentioned, there was nothing shocking or a holy frak moment that has been present in the other episodes of this season. But dont get me wrong i totally enjoyed the episode and BSG is the best thing on tv right now in my opinion! the poll may have been a little narrow in its options, thats all.

Stark

Alright, Not What I Was Hoping For

How dare you not vote for Amazing. In a User45701 poll, the only valid option is Amazing. It doesn't even matter if you haven't seen the episode yet; you are to vote Amazing.

Wait till Fenster and c0y0te get back; they'll show you how it's done.

Vokes

Great Episode

Tbh, its not a proper BSG poll without the 'Would rather watch Andromeda / Enterprise' option

...not that id use it of course

TerrorFirmer

Alright, Not What I Was Hoping For

Stark wrote:

I definitely love that the Baltar situation has come to what it was in the original disco series but that this time we see the character's motivations. Rather than "I'm going to destroy the whole of humankind and live with these lizard created human monsters as I'm evil and that's the sort of fun thing to do when you're evil".

I've never actually seen the original series so in essence I think you just kinda revealed a spoiler to me....up to this point I had no idea at all of where the relationship between Baltar and the Cyclons was heading!

monkeyfudge

Shame Could Have Been Much Better

HavoK wrote:

I've never actually seen the original series so in essence I think you just kinda revealed a spoiler to me....up to this point I had no idea at all of where the relationship between Baltar and the Cyclons was heading!

Well in the original series

Baltar was a politician who orchestrated peace talks with the Cylons but it was all a ruse to draw the fleet away from the colonies. The Cylons promised Baltar that he could then rule over the humans but instead they went all out and tried to destroy humanity altogether... the Imperious Leader was then about to kill Baltar, but he convinced him that he'd be able to get Galactica for them as he knew how the humans thought.

As for why I expected more from this episode... I felt it spent far too much time on a storyline that you knew would be easily sorted out once all the facts were out.

What Sharon is going to do now... that's where there is real conflict.

TerrorFirmer

Alright, Not What I Was Hoping For

I read one line of that and decided not to venture into the rest. Is Baltar, by all accounts so far, a new creation based loosely on the original character or will the ultimate result be the same, do you think? Ah never mind, I just read it. But I suppose the question is still there. Will Baltar try and lead the Cyclons to Galactica, or try and embrace some sort of existance with the Cyclons?

In fact, was any of this storyline in the original series? New Caprica, the clones, the circumstances in which Baltar came into Cylon hands etc? I must watch it some time. I've seen Battlestar Galactica the movie, of course, but no more then maybe a combined grand total of 8 minutes run time of the show...

Johnny Storm

Shame Could Have Been Much Better

HavoK wrote:

I read one line of that and decided not to venture into the rest. Is Baltar, by all accounts so far, a new creation based loosely on the original character or will the ultimate result be the same, do you think? Ah never mind, I just read it. But I suppose the question is still there. Will Baltar try and lead the Cyclons to Galactica, or try and embrace some sort of existance with the Cyclons?

In fact, was any of this storyline in the original series? New Caprica, the clones, the circumstances in which Baltar came into Cylon hands etc? I must watch it some time. I've seen Battlestar Galactica the movie, of course, but no more then maybe a combined grand total of 8 minutes run time of the show...

Dont bother IMHO.

monkeyfudge

Shame Could Have Been Much Better

Actually in the first series they borrow quite a few plot lines from the original series. And of course the Pegasus and it's ultimate faith were all in the original series too as was when they found Kobol.

But nothing like New Caprica or clones... although they did have a human cylon in the Galactica 1980 series... one of the only good episodes actually.

User45701

Great Episode

mcgovern wrote:

User45701 wrote:

mcgovern wrote:

There is only 7 I think, was gonna post something in spoiler tags from ep 5 but since you asked not to I won't!

Now im curious ive seen episode 5 and i don't seem to recall being introduced to a new cylon? who are you talking about?

There wasn't any new cylons introduced, but Lucy Lawless's model mentions to Baltar that the models are tied on whether or not he should be allowed stay, with 3 saying yes, 3 saying no, and 1 undecided yet (the 6s).

Ye but the six`s are the capricas or whatever the model that baltar is in love with she is no.6

so the 6 others are

Lucy lawless (three)
Boomer (eight)
doren (dont know number)
Deen stockwell/priest (dont know number)
Leoban (dont know number)
the black guy (ive dont know his name or number)

so that means there is 5 cylon models we dont know about and for some reason they are not on the cylon "council"

Is it because the cylons split in 2 over the decision that the slaughter of mankind was a mistake ?

or because the other 5 models are a lower rank/infulence

or they are a higher rank and the conciel of 7 decides everything through a vote then maybe the higher council of 5 makes the final decision?

Any thoughts on why there is only seven models making the decision in a culture based on unity?

what about the centurions basestars and raiders guess they don't get a vote?

Goodshape

Alright, Not What I Was Hoping For

Two possible reasons for not showing us the remaining 5 :

1) When we see them making decisions on New Caprica they're usually with Baltar in his office. Maybe they don't want to give up their secrets to him. Similarly, they probably don't want to have any of the remaining five walking among the humans in New Caprica for the same reason.

2) It's just a TV show and it would ruin the surprise later on.

c0y0te

Alright, Not What I Was Hoping For

Enjoyed this ep completely. It was always going to be more of a 'filler' ep anyway given the budget on the last one or two, but it was well handled and setup some nice plot lines for the future.

I did more or less expect the way they

dealt with collaborators right enough (e.g. spacing) but I would have thought it would be more fun to attach 'em to the catapult and shoot them out rather than just letting them float away

maybe that's just me though :cool:

Roll on the next ep.

TerrorFirmer

Alright, Not What I Was Hoping For

Do the Cylons soldiers, or whatever you would call them to distinguish them from the clones, have conscious thought in the same way that the clones do? Or are they just simply cleverly programmed robots?

Haruspex

Alright, Not What I Was Hoping For

I do think this was worthy of the "great" episode accolade but then again I don't think Michael Rymer has directed a bad episode yet and he's had a couple of standout ones under his command including 33 and Lay Down Your Burdens.

I wasn't convinced that Gaeta would survive considering Jammer's demise. It pains me to state this but the time is going to come when the will have to live up to their gritty premise and dispatch some of the main characters Lost-style instead of sacrificing redshirts like Crashdown, Socinus, Ellen and Jammer all the time.

They're going interesting places with Starbuck and Tigh I think. Both seem pretty frakked up following their experiences on New Caprica which will hopefully be developed further. I don't think Tigh was even drunk when he attacked Gaeta in CIC! :eek:

Stark

Alright, Not What I Was Hoping For

HavoK wrote:

Do the Cylons soldiers, or whatever you would call them to distinguish them from the clones, have conscious thought in the same way that the clones do? Or are they just simply cleverly programmed robots?

The centurions are just cleverly programmed robots. The humanoid cylons designed them that way so they wouldn't rebel in the way they rebelled against humankind originally.

Boston

Haruspex wrote:

wasn't convinced that Gaeta would survive considering Jammer's demise. It pains me to state this but the time is going to come when the will have to live up to their gritty premise and dispatch some of the main characters Lost-style instead of sacrificing redshirts like Crashdown, Socinus, Ellen and Jammer all the time.

I strongly disagree that any of those characters where red shirts, most where far more dveloped then the lost characters, especially Ellen.

jjbrien

Shame Could Have Been Much Better

SofaKing wrote:

I love where the character of Tigh is at at this moment time. No way can he be Adama's XO for the forseeable future - he's a loose cannon, definitely not the Tigh we knew from the end of season 2. Not an XO you can rely on.

I think Lee Adama out ranks him now as Lee is a Commander and Tigh is an xo.

Boston

jjbrien wrote:

I think Lee Adama out ranks him now as Lee is a Commander and Tigh is an xo.

Its all about chain of command, in which case Tigh is still the man.

Stark

Alright, Not What I Was Hoping For

Shouldn't Lee be demoted back to Major now that he has no ship to command?

(Bill Adama can still be Admiral as he rocks so much more than Lee Bland Adama).

Vokes

Great Episode

@jjbrien: Yup, it would appear that Lee now outranks Tigh.

From Ron Moore's blog:

"What is the rank structure? It doesn't seem consistant with the Navy."

The rank structure is derived from the original series. I didn't want to change Commander Adama to Captain Adama or Colonel Tigh to Commander Tigh, so I elected to simply embrace the co-mingled nature of the original rank structure. For our internal purposes, we've decided that the ranks are indeed a mixture of naval and army nomenclature and are basically as follows:

Officers --
Admiral
Commander (Lee Adama)
Colonel (Tigh)
Major
Captain
Lieutenant
Lieutenant (junior grade)
Ensign

Looks like Adama Jr. skipped a grade.

Peace

What level are Helo & Dee?