SU Council Motions, Wed 1st November 2006

singingstranger

I've been in contact over PM with Hulla about this and in the spirit of the earlier sentiment from the Union Funds On Bus To Camp thread, I've agreed to post the Council motions on a thread here as soon as they're made available. These motions appeared this afternoon having been placed by my successor as Secretary, Tina Martin, on ucdsu.net (and whose job, looking at this lot, I really don't envy), and Hulla has agreed to Sticky the thread.

The idea is that by having these motions made a little bit more public, more people can be aware of what is being brought up at Council and can pass on their views to their Class Rep where appropriate. Everyone can find the contact details of their Rep (if they currently have one, or the details of a by-election in case of a vacancy) at ucdsu.net/classreps.

The following rake of motions are on notice for the next Council meeting which will take place next Wednesday, November 1st, at 6:15pm in Theatre R of the Arts Block (which is the closest theatre to the back entrance, the closest one to the Belgrove apartments), and all are welcome to attend and to seek speaking rights on whatever motions they like.

Motion supporting the campaign to introduce the sale of cans to the Centre Club on Campus wrote:

Council notes the important part socialising plays in college life.

Council notes that the high price of alcohol is a contributing factor to the reduced number of people frequenting the bars on campus.

Council further notes that the Pavilion in Trinity College Dublin has for a long time now sold cans for consumption on the premises and that this has been a very successful business strategy.

Council therefore mandates it's representatives on the management committees of the bars on campus (both current and future officers) to actively support and campaign for the introduction of a similar system of selling cans to be implemented here in UCD.

Council also mandates all class representatives to make their constituents aware of the online petition on the subject started by Pádraig Phelan at http://www.petitiononline.com/cans/.

Proposed by Pádraig Phelan, Centre Club rep.
Seconded by Robert Kennedy, 1st Ag-Science

Motion Mandating the Union to support the Shell to Sea Campaign wrote:

Council notes with concern the intimidation harassment and assaults carried out by members of the Gardai against the people of Rossport over the past number of weeks.

Council further notes with concern that the Rossport community has lodged over 40 complaints against members of the Gardai for assault and other offences.

Council believes every citizen of this country is constitutionally entitled to demonstrate peacefully on the public highways of this country, without hindrance or intimidation.

Council expresses its sympathy with the Rossport community in particular those children and elderly who have suffered because of this harassment.

Council notes that the Daughter of Philip McGrath one of the Rossport Five is a member of UCD Students Union.

Council reaffirms its support for the campaign initiated by the Rossport Five to stop the construction of a dangerous experimental pipeline on their land by Shell.

Council believes that the only solution to this conflict is for Shell to build its refinery at Sea similar to the offshore terminal at Kinsale.

Council mandates the union to support the Shell to Sea Campaign.

Proposed, Enda Duffy, 3rd English.
Seconded, Chris Bond, PRO Arts and Human Sciences.

Motion regarding UCD Food Co-operative wrote:

Council acknowledges the establishment of the UCD Food Cooperative.

Council applauds the efforts of this group to supply affordable, ethical and environmentally friendly food to the students of UCD.

Council recognises the difficulty of establishing new groups on campus. Therefore, Council endeavours to support the Cooperative in its actions over the coming year.

As part of this support, Council provides the sum of 100 euros for use by
the Cooperative.

Proposed by Luke Ó hÉideáin, Environmental Officer
Seconded by Barry Colfer, Welfare Officer

Motion mandating the Welfare Officer to run an awareness campaign re IBTS policy on Campus wrote:

Council notes
The Irish Blood Transfusion Service (IBTS) does not accept blood from any man who has ever had sex with another man irrespective of relationship status, number of sexual partners, use of protection or any other factor.

Council further notes
The reasons behind this “gay blood ban” are highly flawed and outdated due to increased awareness and practice of safe sex among the gay community and due to advances in blood screening technology.

Council condemns
The discriminatory treatment of the IBTS towards gay men.

Council mandates
The welfare officer to work alongside the LGB officer in running an awareness campaign of this policy on campus and in lobbying the IBTS to change this policy.

Proposed by Isobel O’Connor, 2nd physiotherapy
Seconded by Colm Byrne, Health sciences PRO

Motion condemning the dropping of Early Irish and the increasing marginalization of minor subjects wrote:

UCDSU notes the importance of universities in the role they have for discovering, examining and professing knowledge and truth in the interests of all and encouraging humanity to better understand the world around us.

UCDSU acknowledges the long and distinguished tradition of University College Dublin in its pursuit of the aforementioned aims, with particular relevance to subjects unique to Ireland and Irish culture.

UCDSU notes the misfortunate and misguided decision by the authorities of UCD to drop Early Irish as a subject within the College of Arts and Celtic Studies and views it as a retrograde step in the universal pursuit of knowledge purely for the sake of knowledge.

UCDSU acknowledges and supports the Union members affected directly by this decision, namely those in 3rd Arts who have had to choose other majors in their final year of study.

UCDSU condemns the college authorities for failing to meet their duties of care towards these particular students.

UCDSU recognizes this decision as a smaller symbol of a greater malaise developing within UCD, namely the discarding of subjects deemed irrelevant by the college authorities.

UCDSU sees the presence of subjects such as Early Irish as essential to UCD’s claim to be a university in every sense of the word and not merely a college of further education.

UCDSU condemns the college authorities for their failing to maintain Early Irish as a subject to be taken by both present and future students of UCD.

To this effect, UCDSU mandates the President, Education Vice President and Arts Programme Officers to liaise with those affected by this decision and to pledge UCDSU’s support. UCDSU mandates the President, Education Vice President and Deputy President to protest this decision at the highest level at any meeting with college authorities. Furthermore, UCDSU mandates all Programme Officers, the Union President, Deputy President, Education Vice President, Welfare Vice President and Irish Language Officer to publicize the neglect shown by the college authorities to those affected by such marginalization.

Proposed by: Ian O’Mara – Final Year School of Politics & International Relations and Mathematical Sciences
Seconded by: Chris Bond – Arts & Human Sciences Programme Officer

Motion mandating the SU President to purchase reinforced signs and personal computer stickers wrote:

Council notes - That during the busy hours many students use computers in the arts block for recreational use.

Council mandates - The SU President to purchase
reinforced signs and personal computer stickers that read:
"That during busy hours please refrain from using computers for recreational use"

Proposed Paul Lynam Arts, celtic studies programme rep
seconded Chris Bond Arts, celtic studies programme rep

Motion mandating that sexually suggestive images not be used in the promotion of any Union event wrote:

Council notes:
The recent UCDSU Arts and Human Sciences posters detailing an event being organised partially in aid of Breast Cancer Awareness.

Council notes with concern:
That images of women dressed in skimpy bikinis are being used to advertise the event.

Council respects:
The sensitivity of the issue of breast cancer, and feels that as a result, these images are inappropriate for the advertising of such an event.

Council believes:
That sexual images of either women or men are unnecessary when trying to promote events, and that many alternate images can be used which do not have the potential to cause offence.

Council therefore mandates that:
In accordance with the Dignity and Respect policy of the University, sexually suggestive images of semi-naked people not be used in the promotion of any Union event or in any Union material, and that the Deputy President in his role as the sabbatical officer responsible for Communications ensures the upholding of this mandate.

Proposed: Jane Horgan-Jones, Education Officer 05/06
Seconded: Carol-Anne Rushe, Womens’ Officer

Motion mandating the Welfare Officer to campaign for the removal of cigarettes from SU shops wrote:

Council notes that the Students’ Union shops on campus stock cigarettes, for sale to students and staff alike and that there are no designated smoking areas outside the various buildings on campus.

Council further notes that by the sale of cigarettes in the shops on campus, the Students’ Union is condoning and possible encouraging smoking among the student population.

Council therefore mandates that the Welfare Officer campaign for the removal of cigarettes from the shops, to be replaced by cigarette vending machines in various places on campus, therefore disassociating the Union from smoking, but not preventing people who have the habit from buying cigarettes.

Council further mandates that designated smoking areas be created, to prevent areas such as the entrances to most of the faculty buildings from being monopolized by smokers.

Proposed Susanne O'Reilly , 1st Medicine
Seconded Meadhbh Halpenny, Sarah Gleeson, 1st medicine

Motion mandating the Deputy President to supply metal suggestion boxes in all faculties wrote:

Council Notes the lack of suggestion boxes in faculties.

Council further notes the need for such suggestion boxes in each faculty.

Council Mandates - The S.U Deputy President to supply metal boxes in each
faculty immediately.

Proposed Chris Bond Arts, Celtic studies P.R.O.
seconded Paul Lynam Arts, Celtic studies P.R.O.

Motion on Continuous assessment and Student Representation on College Programme Boards wrote:

Council Notes the Changes that have been made to the weighting of under graduate degrees.

Council also notes the abolition of the august repeats. Council notes with concern the potential academic and financial pressure this could place on students as result.

Council Further notes the increase in coursework visited on students particularily Students in Final Year Arts.

Council Notes that each programme board has the authority to apply regulations regarding degree weighting. Council also notes the lack of Student Representation on each programme board.

Council notes with concern that many changes have been made to degree programme without proper consultation with the student body.

Council notes with disgrace that the college have failed to properly inform students about the recent changes to degree programmes.

Council affirms the need to democratise college decision-making bodies as outlined in article 2 section (ii) of our constitution.

Council Mandates the Deputy president to spearhead a Campaign in co-ordination with the programme officers with the object of re-instating the august repeats and increasing student representation on the College Programme boards.

Council also mandates the President, Deputy President and Education officer to produce literature regarding changes to degree programmes to be made available to the student body.

Council mandates the President, Education officer and Welfare officer to communicate the concerns regarding lack of consultation to the Registrar, UCD governing authority and all other relevant authorities.

Proposed By: Chris Bond, Arts and Human Sciences Programme Representative Officer.
Seconded by Rory Geraghty, 1st Languages, Literature and Film Studies.

Motion re SU Campaign Against the High Cost of Ancillary Catering Products in the UCD Restaurant wrote:

Council recognises that the price of certain ancillary catering products in the Main Restaurant building is extortionate when compared to wholesale prices. The term ancillary catering products refers to portions of butter, jams, and sauces which are priced at 15 cents per portion.

Research undertaken by the Finance Officer and the Welfare Officer suggests that the profit margins on some of these products are likely to be in excess of 1000%.

Council recognises that in a subsidised student restaurant, students and staff should not be expected to pay 15 cents for ancillary catering products that cost 1 – 5 cent at wholesale prices, when paying for a meal costing anything from 3 – 6 euro.

The Students Union will lend full support to a campaign to challenge these prices. The campaign will involve distributing these products to students outside the restaurant between set periods each day on a daily basis as long as the campaign continues.

Council mandates that sufficient funds be made available for this campaign to be run with maximum effect.

Proposed by Stephen Quinlivan, Finance Officer
Seconded by Barry Colfer, Welfare Officer

Motion to withdraw certain previous mandates wrote:

Council notes that when UCDSU takes a stance on an issue that it is speaking for the entire 22,000 strong membership. Furthermore, Council notes the frustration of many members at THEIR union taking a stance on divisive national political issues that are not directly related to students Day-to-Day lives.

Council reaffirms its belief that the Student Union movement can be a vital organ of social change but believes that the drivers of such change must come from a broad base of member interest and support, rather than the Union’s elected representatives getting too far ahead of its members.

In the interests of making UCDSU more relevant, and in an attempt to stave off much of the cynicism currently existing among its members, Council wishes to overturn the following mandates from previous years:

Motion from September 2005 criticising Shell gas pipeline and calling for release of Rossport Five.

Motion from 2004/05 stating UCDSU opposition to deportations

Furthermore Council mandates the Union President to do his utmost to seek possession of all UCDSU banners, and to only release them for use for official union activities. The banner should only be displayed at demonstrations that Council has approved, or in urgent cases where Union Executive has given its approval.

Proposed by: John Butler, 3rd Commerce
Seconded by: John Regan, 3rd Economics

I would imagine that this thread is reserved for discussion on this insane amount of motions before Council next Wednesday. I should also imagine that the rule where posters are required to post on the SU Declaration Thread will stand, and anyone wishing to partake in a discussion should declare any Union interest on this thread beforehand.

Cheers all,
Gav Reilly (Union Secretary 2005-06)

humbert

Isn't there some other website dedicated to this sort of thing. I know this was a fair while ago but posting every SU motion on boards seems excessive.

The_Minister

humbert wrote:

Isn't there some other website dedicated to this sort of thing. I know this was a fair while ago but posting every SU motion on boards seems excessive.

Several of thes will provide a nice, juicy debate, and are relevant to boards members.

abelard

humbert wrote:

Isn't there some other website dedicated to this sort of thing. I know this was a fair while ago but posting every SU motion on boards seems excessive.

I don't think it's THAT excessive. It's only one thread every 2 weeks, and it might concentrate all SU related debate into that one bi-weekly thread rather than loads of threads on loads of different issues floating around. Also if it highlights the motions on notice to a larger number of people, it can only help to increase general student awareness and class rep. accountability.

And in relation to the actual motions, I have a feeling this is gonna be a looooong council. Definitely a few controversial ones there.

edit: good idea SS, hulla, or whoever actually came up with it

hullaballoo

SS consulted me about this, and I thought it was an utterly tremendous idea!

UCDSU.net isn't frequented by too many people, I thought that in light of the bus thread, it may make a difference to people on here.

If you don't want to read these threads, no one is making you click the link. (Sorry if that sounds bad, but you know what my point is.)

humbert

hullaballoo wrote:

SS consulted me about this, and I thought it was an utterly tremendous idea!

UCDSU.net isn't frequented by too many people, I thought that in light of the bus thread, it may make a difference to people on here.

If you don't want to read these threads, no one is making you click the link. (Sorry if that sounds bad, but you know what my point is.)

It's just my two cents. I've said it before that I liked the fact that there was a ucdsu.net precisely so that i could ignore it but with the upsurge of boards reps I guess there's plenty of interest. I liked the fact that apart from the election stuff the ucd boards used to be reasonably SU free. Before there's a lynch mob formed I'm not saying that's the way it should be, it's just my opinion.

EDIT: Actually after reading through them and being unable to suppress a grin I think perhaps it's not a bad idea. I'd just hate to see UCD boards become hack central like ucdsu.net and deter people with no interest in the SU but if these threads keep the SU stuff contained I suppose everyone wins.

Love the complaint about sexually suggestive images for union events:)

gliondar

Holy Moley! That council is going to be slaughterous! Early Irish, Smoking and the Sex Posters are going to take forever! Banning Smoking!!!! That's hilarious! Why don't we ban condoms too!

hullaballoo

Fair play to John Butler for putting forward that motion.

Even I'm tempted to attend council on Tuesday.

elmyra

Tuesday being Hallowe'en night I'm up for going somewhere scary too.

Boards contingent, anyone?

Stabshauptmann

I presume you are refering to John Butlers rather than one of paul Lynams?

Blush_01

Opinion:

1: Pro can sales in the bars - it's about time.

2: WTF do the Gardaí have to do with the SU? Or someone's Da? I agree with sympathising/empathising with the people of Rossport - nobody wants their front garden converted into a host for a potentially lethal pathway. That said, it is not the responsibility of UCDSU to fund transport to or from protests against said construction. Support of the Rossport controversy in attitude is all well and good, but SU funding for it? If you believe in something, finance your beliefs yourself, ta very much.

3: I have been led to believe that the SU President can sign independently sign cheques not to exceed the sum of €100. This motion seems like a little personal publicity stunt, as I have also been led to believe that Dan has already confirmed that he will give the co-op said €100. Co-op, especially the fresh fruit and vege thing is a really good idea though.

4: In all seriousness, it's about time that people wised up. Homosexuality and HIV do not always go hand in hand! (I tried to find some statistics, but I'm crap! )

5: Well, the issue was publicised in the college publication(s), so mandating the SU to publicise the issue is a bit of a mute point at this point. That said, it's Early Irish this year, what's next for the chop?

6: Stickers will do what exactly? They won't stop anyone from using the computers for whatever purpose they like. The money will be wasted on stickers, you need narky b*tches like me to ask people to stop messing around as other people have work to do. THAT works. Besides, with the new computers upstairs near the services desk and programme offices, there should be no need to use the computers downstairs for recreational reasons at any time during the year - try enforcing it though. People, not stickers, are needed to do that.

7: Is this crap coming up *again*? Who here has never seen people dressed more suggestively on an ordinary night out? Hands up now! Exactly - we all see much more suggestive images on a daily basis. Also, in the afforementioned offending posters both men and women are in minimalist clothing, but supposedly the men are by no means being exploited! Next people will want to ban the Belfield FM posters because the poster girl has bare shoulders (or is too pretty, or seems confused by what she's listening to, which must constitute some form of discrimination!). Where are we, Lourdes? As for the complete nonsense about sensitivity to Breast Cancer sufferers being in short supply because of the posters, give me a break. Should women who have suffered breast cancer automatically become less proud of their own bodies, and therefore shun everyone elses too? THAT shows a complete lack of understanding of the humanity that often gets lost behind illness. Looks like another crusade to me.

8: This one made me want to take up smoking 20 a day, just to be pig-headed. Independent cigarette machines are decorative and promote themselves. The cigarette machines in the SU shops don't flaunt themselves at all, they blend into the wall behind the counter and you hardly even realise it's there unless you're a smoker. It's my understanding that once I passed 18 I became an adult in the eyes of the law, therefore if I want to smoke, it's my prerogative. I was going to say something disparaging about a little education being a bad thing, but it's probably unnecessary.

9: Ooh, goody, shiny suggestion bins. Somewhere else for people to dump rubbish. I pity whoever has to open them, for every one legitimate suggestion how many pieces of rubbish/nonsense suggestions do you imagine will be submitted?

10: Sounds pretty sensible. That worries me, frankly.

11: Ah jaysus lads, are we getting that cheap all of a sudden? How much do the portions of butter and cheese in the SU shops cost? (I don't actually know, I'm genuinely interested). Maybe a big jar of jam and some catering-sized butter would be cheaper still - look into it, would you?

12:

Council reaffirms its belief that the Student Union movement can be a vital organ of social change but believes that the drivers of such change must come from a broad base of member interest and support, rather than the Union’s elected representatives getting too far ahead of its members.

<--- LOVE that. While individual member-to-member support for the majority of deportees is commendable, it is surely not something that should be a requirement. There are legitimate reasons for deporting people.(For my Rossport view, see above).

2c.

humbert

Blush_01 wrote:

4: In all seriousness, it's about time that people wised up. Homosexuality and HIV are not *mutually exclusive.

11: Ah jaysus lads, are we getting that cheap all of a sudden? How much do the portions of butter and cheese in the SU shops cost? (I don't actually know, I'm genuinely interested). Maybe a big jar of jam and some catering-sized butter would be cheaper still - look into it, would you?

*always related? Sorry, pedantic:o

I think the cost of butter and jam in the restaurant is thievery, I thought it was 20c a sachet but I could be wrong.

Oh totally agree with the rest of the post though, especially the smoking bit, I think the two that put it forward should have to stand in front of the library and suggest it and see what the students think. Med types:mad:

panda100

humbert wrote:

especially the smoking bit, I think the two that put it forward should have to stand in front of the library and suggest it and see what the students think. Med types:mad:

It is funny:D Ah poor naieve little first year meds.They must have had that lecture on the lungs with the disgusting pictures and just freaked out about smoking

Blush_01

Yeah, that's what I meant Humbert. (Whoops! Will edit! God help me, I do get caught up in my rants. ) I have to admit, I've never bought butter, jam etc. in the restaurant. If I want butter on my scone, I bring one in buttered from home. (Have done for 3 years, always worked so far!)

Thought the exact same Panda.

Just on the cans motion: if the argument comes up about students just being lazy and bringing in cans themselves, yes it does happen in the Pav but the Pav changes which cans it sells on a nightly basis (i.e. Bavaria one night, prazsky the next, castlemaine XXXX after etc. - though no dutch!) which makes it harder unless you go in to check before hand (and students are lazy). The cost is €8 for 4 cans for the cheapest.

Plus we had cans in the Buttery though that closed down this year

Het-Field

Ahh, finally a bit of SU communication with the outside world !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pretty*monster

How many motions is that? Bloody heck, do people feel the need to air every little thing that crosses their mind at council. There goes my Wednesday night anyhow.

Boo to the cigarette motion btw.

Stabshauptmann

Why is no more august repeats a bad thing?
You can repeat next xmas, more time to study and it doesnt attect your holliday plans!

Pythia

I might attend. Some strong feelings on some of those motions.
I really like John Butler's one. Well done John! (even if you are KBC)

Stabshauptmann

1. Cans - Yes, obviously
2. Shell to sea - No, its vague, sentimental and poorly written. Ask for it to be resubmitted next week
3. Food Co-op - Yes.
4. IBTS - Definitly yes.
5. Early Irish - Yes
6. Signs - Pointless waste of money
7. Posters - No, and cop on.
8. Cigs - No, because this is the type of thing that needs a referendum
9. Suggestion boxs - Meh, yeah I suppose. No harm in it.
10. Repeats - Havent decided. I think its misinformed so Im going to do some research
11. Jam - Yes, its a really bread and butter issue for students
12. Withdraw certain motions - I want to cut it up. Put each repeal to a vote

Stabshauptmann

btw I dont have any constituents who arent already SU councillors, ones the president

pigeonbutler

Kaptain Redeye: I understand why you want to cut it up but I'd rather not because that would go against the spirit of the motion. I don't want us to be arguing the rights and wrongs of Shell campaign or of opposing deportations (that's in by the way because of people obstructing deportations {even getting arrested} at GNIB in the past, all the while claiming to recognise UCDSU). I think the rights and wrongs of the issues are irrelevant.

We should only make a stand if there's widespread student interest. Panda had concerns about the deportation one as well. The reality is the mandate as it stood was being used to oppose and indeed physically obstruct all attempts of the Gardaí to enforce our immigration laws.

Vainglory

Just a quick note on the posters motion..

Leaving aside whether YOU find them personally offensive, can you at least accept that some people do?

And if you do accept that, and if the motivation behind some of the other motions that you support is not to cause division within the union, then surely it would be simply easier just to not use images like that, and pick from the wide, wide variety of other images that could have been used on the poster? Then we would have no conflict.

hullaballoo

Find what offensive? Half-naked women? Seriously Vain, you should take a look around you. Everywhere in the media worldwide, half naked women and men are used to sell products. They're used to sell to both men and women.

It's not an effort at degradation, and frankly, putting forward the argument that *some* people find them offensive is a non-runner as well. *Some* people find everything offensive - loud noises, music, smoking, drinking, swearing, bad smells, bad jokes and all of the other things that make us human.

Vainglory

hullaballoo wrote:

Find what offensive? Half-naked women? Seriously Vain, you should take a look around you. Everywhere in the media worldwide, half naked women and men are used to sell products. They're used to sell to both men and women..

I don't particularly agree with that either.

hullaballoo wrote:

It's not an effort at degradation, and frankly, putting forward the argument that *some* people find them offensive is a non-runner as well. *Some* people find everything offensive - loud noises, music, smoking, drinking, swearing, bad smells, bad jokes and all of the other things that make us human.

Yes, but generally I can avoid going to places where there are loud noises, smoking etc if I want. I can't avoid seeing the posters all over campus. And I am a stakeholder in the organisation that has decided to put those images on posters, so I do have every right to complain and try to change the situation.

I simply ask this; why bother? Loud music is necessary if you're having a band in the bar, smoking is necessary if you're going to get people to come. Pictures of semi-naked PEOPLE (as the motion says) are unnecessary when promoting Arts and Human Sciences launch night. I could think of any number of images that could be used.

If you're all about preventing division in the union, then surely it's just better to not try and rile people such as myself up, but pick any of those other images that could be used?

hullaballoo

I'm not sure I really understand your last sentence there. I'm not necessarily about preventing division in the union, in fact, I'm more anti-SU than anything.

Anyway, my personal prejudices aside, I'm just putting forward the argument that sometimes people are like bear-traps when it comes to anything slightly offensive. Once there's something slightly risqué on campus, they fly off the scale.

Why bother? I'm not sure if you have noticed, but campus is overwrought with posters every day. It's impossible from a society point of view to advertise anything because the bigger societies just monopolise the concourse with their hundreds of posters.

They need something that will catch the eye. It seems to have worked. Score one for shock-marketing(!)

Stabshauptmann

The rules on postering is what a reasonable person would find offensive, not what somebody could find offensive.
and I stand by my assertion that no reasonable person would because

A)They are balanced, both men and women are depicted in the same manner
B)There is no nudity
C)There is nothing humiliating or intimidating
D)There is nothing sexually suggestive

panda100

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

The rules on postering is what a reasonable person would find offensive, not what somebody could find offensive.
and I stand by my assertion that no reasonable person would because

A)They are balanced, both men and women are depicted in the same manner
B)There is no nudity
C)There is nothing humiliating or intimidating
D)There is nothing sexually suggestive

Though it was in poor taste considering it was an event to raise money for breast cancer awareness.

Stabshauptmann

I dont agree with that either.

cast_iron

Banning cigarettes sales! Not only that - it essentially goes as far as a campus wide ban on smoking!

I despise smoking, but saying that, I haven't heard anything so stupid in a long time.

Just how is selling cigarettes encouraging people to smoke? The shop assistants do not thrust them in peoples faces, forcing them to buy them.

In the main, I agree with Blush's opinions.

hullaballoo wrote:

Find what offensive? Half-naked women? Seriously Vain, you should take a look around you. Everywhere in the media worldwide, half naked women and men are used to sell products. They're used to sell to both men and women..

Vainglory wrote:

I don't particularly agree with that either.

Meanwhile, back here in the real world...

Vainglory

hullaballoo wrote:

Why bother? I'm not sure if you have noticed, but campus is overwrought with posters every day. It's impossible from a society point of view to advertise anything because the bigger societies just monopolise the concourse with their hundreds of posters.

The Union are the BIGGEST "society" if you will, with the biggest amount of funding. It's not like we're talking about Quantum Phsyics Soc here.

Plus, in the past couple of years, my experience is that societies have generally stopped using images like that to advertise their events. The last one I remember was B&L's "Barely Legal" thing with the Olsen twins in aid of Temple Street Children's Hospital. So why do we have to be the only ones still doing it?

Blush_01

Can I just ask one question Vain? Have you ever been to UCD during warm weather? Ever? You see more on a walk up the concourse than in those posters. You can actually tell whether some people have recently had a brazilian in what they're wearing. Do you propose we ban people who others might find offensive from the concourse too?

How much should I make your reality cheque out for?

Vainglory

Now now, no need to be like that.

Like I said..it's sometimes necessary for people to wear less clothes because it's hot. And I don't have any control over what other people wear.

But it's NOT necessary to put pictures like that on posters. And I do have a degree of control over that.

Unless you're arguing that it is necessary?

hullaballoo

Vainglory wrote:

Like I said..it's sometimes necessary for people to wear less clothes because it's hot.

...And sometimes it's necessary for people to wear less clothes because they're hot.

Het-Field

Personally I think we must break from the ideas of these poster being sexist. Since the University has got rid of certain people (extreme feminists) the situation has died down somewhat.

I remembe rposters being put up by one of the sports clubs (i cant remember which) and it had a picture of a girl, and a statement pertaining to the vast amount of women in the club relative to the amount of men. Now I remember a certain feminst attacking my friend as he was putting up the poster, and his response was something like At least the women in the club are doing something to disprove a steryotype that women are inferior to men at sports" I have far more respect for women who play sports at a high level or women who do something out of the ordinary than those who go runnig around ripping down posters and shouting that all men are pigs. They just get under peoples skin.

I wish those extreme feminists would realsie something. Women have never had it so good.

They can all Vote
They are payed the same as men for the same work
Getting married and having a baby does not mean one has to give up their career.

Furthermore women are in the advantaged position when it comes to child custody cases. Now you dont see loads of men taking to the streets protesting that

Society has moved on from the 1930s. Women are highly respected in society. One of the strongest leaders in the world was Maggie Thatcher. In Ireland our President is a woman, and until recently our Tanaiste was a woman.

If women want to make more of an impact on politics they should be willing to get involved

The_Minister

hullaballoo wrote:

...And sometimes it's necessary for people to wear less clothes because they're hot.

Say what you want, but Hulla would have made a great troll.

valor

Excellent motion Butler

Make sure it passes

cast_iron

Vainglory wrote:

Like I said..it's sometimes necessary for people to wear less clothes because it's hot.

Unless you're arguing that it is necessary?

That's ridiculous, and I think you will find that nobody here is saying it is necessary.

And to suggest otherwise is just stupid, and shows a complete lack of comprehention of the counter-arguement.

Girls don't go about on a Fri/Sat night wearing nothing more than a belt(!) because it's hot (on the celcius scale anyway - as Hulla said!) Maybe you don't get out much these days, but it could be the coldest nite during the winter and that doesn't stop the short skirt brigade (nor should it:) )

Vainglory wrote:

And I don't have any control over what other people wear.

Thank God for that.

Vainglory wrote:

But it's NOT necessary to put pictures like that on posters.

The word "necessay" is largely irrelevant. If a club intends to have a succesful nite/event, then numbers are a must. As long as no student code/rule is broke then where's the problem?
Bar yourself, i don't see many others whinging about this.

It's really a topic for another thread, but clubs/scoieties are finding it increasingly difficult to host events with the onset of modularisation. And the fact is - that alcohol/sex sells events.

Very few people seem bothered by this, so perhaps you would be better served by serving the majority of students (male and female) wishes, rather than the biased few.

You might find your opinions are more apreciated when you don't have a ridiculous self-centred point of view.

Vainglory wrote:

And I do have a degree of control over that.

That's the saddest part of all.

hullaballoo

Het-field, is Mary Harney not Táiniste currently? Sorry for the off-topicness, but I can't find out anywhere and I should be in bed.

Paul Tergat

hullaballoo wrote:

Het-field, is Mary Harney not Táiniste currently? Sorry for the off-topicness, but I can't find out anywhere and I should be in bed.

Michael Mcdowell now holds it, as well as Min For Justice

John_C

I agree with Vainglory on this. Using these pictures shows a lack of imagination in whoever made the posters.

There's no need for them, we're not weighing up pros and cons. There's no pro and a small con.

tintinr35

council notes and council affirms but at the end of the day council does F*uck all

Sangre

As a Muslim I find the depictation of events selling alcohol as deeply offensive.

Allah Akbar.

gubbie

Vainglory wrote:

Plus, in the past couple of years, my experience is that societies have generally stopped using images like that to advertise their events. The last one I remember was B&L's "Barely Legal" thing with the Olsen twins in aid of Temple Street Children's Hospital. So why do we have to be the only ones still doing it?

Sorry but there has been more. The Bunny Ball ones, school discos, christmas parties all used scantly clad women last year in their posters

Stabshauptmann

There was a really suggestive poster recently that seemed not to come up on anyones radar. Better not mention it before wednesday...

dajaffa

gubbie wrote:

Sorry but there has been more. The Bunny Ball ones, school discos, christmas parties all used scantly clad women last year in their posters

Ya + all you have to do i look at the sexual health part of the student survival guide for a seriously suggestive image that nobody kicked up a fuss about.

AngelofFire

Theres a distinction there dajaffa, one has a choice to as to whether one wants to read that section of the freshers guide or not. I have no problem with people buying the Sun, weekly sport or playboy-each publication contains pictures of partially or fully naked people. Those who take offence to those images dont have to buy the magazine. Posters with partially naked people are displayed on the concourse are exposed to everyone, including those who may take offence to it, unlike buying a magazine where people have a choice in the matter, its very hard to avoid such images when they're all over campus.

abelard

AngelofFire wrote:

Theres a distinction there dajaffa, one has a choice to as to whether one wants to read that section of the freshers guide or not.

I don't quite agree just with that particular point. I mean reading through the Student Survival Guide, you wouldn't have any idea if there was going to be a "suggestive image" on the next page or not, so you can't make a conscious choice to avoid the images.

gubbie

AngelofFire wrote:

Theres a distinction there dajaffa, one has a choice to as to whether one wants to read that section of the freshers guide or not

Ya one also has the option to walk blindly up campus with their eyes shut

As Abelard pointed out, no one knew it was coming in the freshers guide. I don't remember seeing any "Warning this publication may contain images that some people may find offensive". You at least know whats gonna come in Playboy and the Sun even if you've never looked at it in your life

dajaffa

AngelofFire wrote:

Theres a distinction there dajaffa, one has a choice to as to whether one wants to read that section of the freshers guide or not. I have no problem with people buying the Sun, weekly sport or playboy-each publication contains pictures of partially or fully naked people. Those who take offence to those images dont have to buy the magazine. Posters with partially naked people are displayed on the concourse are exposed to everyone, including those who may take offence to it, unlike buying a magazine where people have a choice in the matter, its very hard to avoid such images when they're all over campus.

Well other peeps have made other points but also, this motion says "sexually suggestive images of semi-naked people not be used in the promotion of any Union event or in any Union material" which that instance would come in under.

panda100

Het-Field wrote:

Women have never had it so good.

But just not as good as men yet

Het-Field wrote:

They can all Vote

only for the last 100years so we have a lot of catching up to do

Het-Field wrote:

Getting married and having a baby does not mean one has to give up their career.

It does in some careers ecspecially in the course I represent.


Also that picture in the freshers guide of a girl straddling a guy you couldnt really see, really wasnt necessary to promote safe sex.