New house cold breeze under skirting

garyh3

Ok

Been in the new house about 1 1/2 now. Last winter there was a distinct draft under the skirting facing the the outside walls. Both back and front. Looking in the attic there is a large gap between the brick work and the roof actually is very messy. As its cavity wall is the draft coming in from there and can I fill the gap with sheet rock or something else. I know the attic has to have some cirulation of air but I would like to stop the breeze in the livining room Kitchen etc....

Any recommendation greatly appreciated

Garyh3

delly

It could be that the plasterboard or insulation in these rooms haven't been brought fully down to the floor. I know there was a post a while ago where someone took the skirting boards off and used that expanding foam to close the gap and fix the draft problem. I assume if the house itself is a year and a half old that it does have insulation, so I don't know if it could travel all the way down from the roof.

As regards filling the gaps in the attic, as you say there has to be some form of circulation and reducing this could have a bad effect, but i'll let some of the other posters correct me on this.

Kashkai

We had this problem in our last house and it was caused by the wind entering the attic and coming down the interior cavity wall and under the plasterboard into the room.

This problem is usually more noticable after a year in a house as it has settled by then and thus if you look at your floors upstairs, you'll see that there is a noticable gap between the floors and the skirting board (especially if you have sanded the floorboards in lieu of putting down carpeting).

I solved the problem by using the expandable foam to plug the gaps where the plasterboard didn't come down to the floorboards which turned out to be practically everywhere upstairs. Be careful using this stuff though as a small amount swells up to many times its original size and you could end up with it up the walls and/or over your flooring. Its also sticky as hell and if it gets onto something, you won't get it off.

I didn't take the skirting boards off but you could try to remove them and lower them down onto the floorboards (allowing for expansion). However, this won't stop the draughts by itself.

garyh3

Thanks for the advice so far...

Yes the Plaster board does not come all the way to the ground there is about a 4 inc gap on all walls down stairs.

I have already used some expanding foam in the Utility room as it was a huge breeze coming through.

Trouble is that I liquid nailed the skirting on and I cannot get it off again withoug causing more trouble... so I thought that I might be able to partially cover the attic to cover the gap.

Here is a tip on expanding foam... Def use gloves..... and spray water on the foam and it will stop expanding.

Garyh3

GreeBo

I have the same sort of problem in my house
The vents in all the rooms are letting the wind/air get between the exterior and interior walls
My solution is to create a duct from the outside vent to the inside vent.
Hopefully that way the air just enters the room when the internal vent is open.

Maybe you can do the same thing in the attic?
Cover up the gap between the two leaves without stopping the air from getting into the attic?


Also if you have a lean-to roof it will have the same problem.
In my house the "attic" in the lean to roof was open to the upstairs floorboards, so basically any wind that came in under that roof was free to blow all around the inside of the house.
Nice.

dubtom

Just a question, is the original builder not reponsible for repairing sloopy work.Does homebond or whatever it's called not cover stuff like that.

TempestSabre

About the vents, I always thought that these should be offset between inside and outside walls to stop rain and wind blowing straight through. I could be wrong though.

I have similar draughts due as mentioned wooden floors, plasterboard not covering the gap natural shrinkage. I believe if there enough insulation between the plasterboard and wall that the wind shouldn't be a problem like this. So I reckon it suggests poor insulation too. Any thoughts on that?

I've one room especially badly effected, I'll try this expanding foam and the other tips.

garyh3

Ok Posted a few pics. I can actually get my hand between the cavity wall with ease !!!!

What do you think of the brick work ????
Can I just fill with expanding foam or would rock wool be better ?

Any comeback on the builder? or is this upto standard?

Comments please

Garyh3

delly

Purely speaking as a layman, that doesn't look good at all.

Moanin

Looks okay to me.Mine is similar

delly

Well based purely on my first house, the trianglar shape was smooth from top to bottom, without smaller handmade bricks stuck in here and there. But hey, if it is the norm, I stand corrected.

mad m

delly wrote:

Purely speaking as a layman, that doesn't look good at all.

Yeah that doesnt look good to me either,you could void your insurance if a fire breaks out next door and spreads into yours. Hmm with the draft thing,when I worked on sites a labourer used to fit a length of waste pipe from vent outside to inside and filled in and around with cement or expanding foam

TempestSabre

Its meant to be a fire barrier. But that looks quite poor. The gaps but all the blockwork. My own is not much better, its the real min of effort you see everywhere these days.

garyh3

The house is a five bed detached. Supposed to be build to the highest standard. (in the builders catalog)

yer right !

Moanin

If you don't mind me asking what estate in Navan do you live in?

garyh3

Blackcastle Demesne on the Slane Road.

Lurence McLaughlin build house

Garyh3

Moanin

I'm in Carne Hill.He built mine also.I feel the front room(Sitting Room) is very cold also.I've asked some of my neighbours and they feel the same.I wonder if the outside walls are properly insulated?The reason I sy this is that I recently converted my garage and used the insulated platerboard and there is great heat now in this room.I am contemplating doing the same in the sitting room.I know that the front row are 5 beds in carne Hill and last year McLoughlin had to pump insulation into all of these 10-12 houses?

garyh3

Do you thing a building engineer would be able to tell?

What are the building regs. for a 2 year old house. IS the cavity meant to be isulated or is it just a gap for the wall to breath?

Yes the living room has a big gust of wind through it under the skirting...

thanks

Garyh3

TempestSabre

I don't know if the wall by regulation have to be insulated, I would expect they are. I seem to remember it used to be 4" in attics and that has increased to 6" or something like that. I'd assume theres something similar regarding the walls.

I know I have one room (a small bathroom) in the house (I'm in Dublin) which is especially cold and I suspect there is little or insulation in it. But with out making holes in the walls theres no way of knowing. I have considered pulling off the plasterboard and redoing it all myself. But as yet I haven't got around to it. Getting the builders back would probably take a year of hassle and then they'd probably do a dire job of it again.

Joeface

I think u should find and engineer and show these photos the him.it looks like my 5 year old nephew u did it. Very poor work.

Then a again Im not in the building trade so I could be wrong , but I have never seen anyone mix in Clay bricks to fill in the gaps on a load bearing wall.


Very poorly Finished

garyh3

Ok I have the Specifications for the house.

On the Sperstructure

Cavity walls construction from Kingscourt clay facing bricks and concrete blocks with polystyrene rigid insulating board (how can I tell ? and does this mean that the cavity is meant to be insulated ?)




regards

Gary

TempestSabre

Joeface wrote:

....but I have never seen anyone mix in Clay bricks to fill in the gaps on a load bearing wall...

The bricks aren't load bearing anyway so thats not the problem. AFAIK. But AFAIK there should be as little of a gap as possible as a fire barrier. I assume (but not in the trade) thats its more of a lack of attention to detail and poor workmanship than a major safety issue.

TempestSabre

garyh3 wrote:

...Cavity walls construction from Kingscourt clay facing bricks and concrete blocks with polystyrene rigid insulating board (how can I tell ? and does this mean that the cavity is meant to be insulated ?)...

Thats for the outside walls.

Outside|brick|polystyrene|block|studding|insulation|plasterboard|interior

But this wall we're looking at is different. Its an interior party wall.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_wall

Typically made of two or three rows of brick (double or triple wythe) with a thickness of eight to twelve inches. The wall starts at the foundation of the building to support the weight of both structures. The beams or joists that support each floor of the building often sit in "beam pockets" within the brick. The party wall is also a barrier to fires by extending above the roof as a parapet wall to prevent flames from spreading from one building to the next.

In my limited experience in Ireland its usually made of solid concrete blocks laid on flat. Like in the photos. Because you don't see it the the mortar/trowel work doesn't have to be pointed to a high standard. But a decent brickie out of pride in his work tend to do as tidy as job as they can, and not just slap it together. I've never seen it insulated in the attic or most of the time anywhere else in the house. Often they stick the plasterboard directly to the party wall with blobs of plaster.

garyh3

well the wall (pictured) is actually and outside wall and an internal wall.

The wall is the outside bathroom (upstairs) and below is the garage internal wall as the garage is stuck on the side of the house. So I would expect it to be insulated.

I Took a few of the plastic vents off and look inside. It does has polystyrene inside.

So Im presuming that the drafts are coming down from the attic and through the skirting (as the plasterboard does not go all the way to the floor)

I think I will invest is some expnding foam

Thnask for all your help and advice

Garyh3

Viking House

Your house is not airtight and is loosing a lot of heat from leakage.
There is wind getting into the cavity and past the inside block probably from around the windows. The wind is blowing in and out of your house in an uncontrolled manner. Do you have many chimneys in your house? chimneys make your house very draughty as they suck heated air out of the house and cold air has to get back in to replace it.

You could test your house by doing a wind blower test of by using some coloured smoke on a windy day. You could check the heatloss of your house with a Thermal Imaging camera.

Your roof insulation does not meet up with the insulation in the walls and you have a major heat loss area there.
You also should consider increasing the insulation in your attic.
As far as the walls go in your attic they should be sealed up to the felt by whatever means using brick, stone, block.
On the Continent all the party walls on new houses protrude up through the roof for over a foot for fire proofing purposes.

TempestSabre

I didn't realize its a gable wall. Even so a lot aren't insulated. It could be improved, but its not typically done afaik. The fire risk isn't the same, unless the draught is considered a serous risk. I don't know about that.

garyh3

Thanks again for the input.

Would any work be covered under the home bond scheme.....

there is 1 chimney in the house.

Can I insulate each gable end or would that stop the roof from breething. I was think of adding additionl insualltion in the attic.

regards

Garyh3

Joeface

Joeface wrote:

I think u should find and engineer and show these photos the him.it looks like my 5 year old nephew u did it. Very poor work.

Then a again Im not in the building trade so I could be wrong , but I have never seen anyone mix in Clay bricks to fill in the gaps on a load bearing wall.


Very poorly Finished

This part of a gable wall is not load bearing the roof trusses are holding up the roof, all the gable does is stop the wind passing through.

Done properly it should be aligned with the top of the trusses .i.e. on gaps, but this takes a little longer to do & costs more :rolleyes:

Viking House

Would any work be covered under the home bond scheme.....
I think they only cover structural stuff.

there is 1 chimney in the house. Block it up when you are not using it.

Can I insulate each gable end or would that stop the roof from breething.
There is no point insulating the gable wall of your attic as it is an uninhabited room but If you try to seal off the top of the cavity then it should restrict the wind blowing into the cavity.

garyh3

Thanks Viking house

Will bolck the gaps.

thanks to all for the advice

Garyh3

garyh3

Ok

I have now blocked up the gables except for the very top.

While up in the attic I have noticed that the insuallation is not tight under the eves, I can see light, I can see that this is for circulation. However I want to add another layer of isullation (currently there is 200mm)

Questions

Do I have to put some baffels under the joists (on all or just some?)
Can you make or do you buy.

If a lay on top across the joists is there need for a moisture barrier first.

any help appreciated

Garyh3

natbraddy

The walls should be insulated when it was built the question being was it put in the cavity or on the interior of your walls

As for your draft you must ventilate your attic space or you will incourage dry rot in your rafters which you really dont want but that does not mean that there is no cure the cavity should be sealed at the top in whatever way is easier to you

You can brick it up as the bricks you show on your picture as these are not load bearing as it is the top of your wall!!

You can stuff the cavity with the same insulation as you already have up in your attic if you jam about twelve inches of that in it would be easier for you and would stop a lot of the draft and if you can do the same around all vents

Hope that helps will save you ripping off skirts and plaster and should solve your problem

ddea

Facing a similar situation now. Just moved into new house. Was aware of breeze coming in under plasterboard during building and tried to get all gaps filled before skirting boards fixed. However think that there are still draughts behind plasterboard and can feel it around some switches etc. Builder says this is normal ventilation - but he would.

Just wondering Gary if the measures you took have been successful?

garyh3

Hi ddea,

Well yes and no..... If you look behind some of the switches then there is a very cold drafts blowing.

I have put extra insullated in the attic as well as board down the middle of the attic floor for storage. I have also blocked any holes on the gable ends and left a few gaps down the side of the house for ventilataion.

I have blocked the chimney when Im not using the fire.

I have taken some of the skirting off and put some insallation between the gap which has stopped some of the drafts. On the vetnts I have used a breathable material and put some of the vents to lessen the wind blowing.

I have fitted draft excluders to the util and garage doors

I have lagged the immersion tank evethough it has a foam coating on it

But TBH I am still shocked as the level of construction of the house. They used felt and not a breathable membrane for the roof. The membrane could have gone over the side of the house and stopped most of the drafts.

The house is def. warmer and Im hoping my gas bill is down. But if I ever build a house in the future I gonna make sure that its well above spec on insullation.

Garyh3

BostonB

IMO the standard of a lot of Irish construction is very poor these days despite all the regulation and new materials.

You could have all the standards & regulations in the world, but without an independent team of inspectors who check every building like in many other countries, builders will cut corners and get away with it. :mad:

Pious14

garyh3 wrote: »

Ok Posted a few pics. I can actually get my hand between the cavity wall with ease !!!!

What do you think of the brick work ????
Can I just fill with expanding foam or would rock wool be better ?

Any comeback on the builder? or is this upto standard?

Comments please

Garyh3

My gable end attic walls are exactly like this. Should they be covered in as cold air is entering the gaps?

listermint

Pious14 wrote: »

My gable end attic walls are exactly like this. Should they be covered in as cold air is entering the gaps?

Get your walls pumped,.there is grants available also

GreeBo

Any insulation that's in that wall is useless if there is a gale blowing between the leaves.

Gaps in insulation are like holes in a balloon, it doesn't work.

The insulation between the two leaves is to stop the warm air in your rooms heating the inner leaf and then the inner leaf hearing the outer one, I.e heating the outside air.

If there is a gap with wind blowing them this air is stealing heat from the inner leaf.

Insulation boards should be butted tightly together, taped and certainly not open at the top. You literally might as well not have any insulation.

Pumped beads would improve insulation and setup the draughts too.

Short term, caulk the skirting to the walls and floor if not using carpet.

Pious14

GreeBo wrote: »

Any insulation that's in that wall is useless if there is a gale blowing between the leaves.

Gaps in insulation are like holes in a balloon, it doesn't work.

The insulation between the two leaves is to stop the warm air in your rooms heating the inner leaf and then the inner leaf hearing the outer one, I.e heating the outside air.

If there is a gap with wind blowing them this air is stealing heat from the inner leaf.

Insulation boards should be butted tightly together, taped and certainly not open at the top. You literally might as well not have any insulation.

Pumped beads would improve insulation and setup the draughts too.

Short term, caulk the skirting to the walls and floor if not using carpet.

Thanks - so it is safe to cover the cable ends so no air can get into the walls?

Pious14

Pious14 wrote: »

Thanks - so it is safe to cover the cable ends so no air can get into the walls?

Here are some pics

_Brian

garyh3 wrote: »

Ok Posted a few pics. I can actually get my hand between the cavity wall with ease !!!!

What do you think of the brick work ????
Can I just fill with expanding foam or would rock wool be better ?

Any comeback on the builder? or is this upto standard?

Comments please

Garyh3

I think your looking to the wrong source for the draught.

Your draught is likely between the inside block and the plasterboard inside that rather than between the leaves of the block.

I think as suggested your best way to address this is seal under the plasterboard with expanding foam.

listermint

You won't cover the tops of the gables in any way effectively to solve the problem


I would look at getting them pumped it's not that expensive and there is grants. I had a large bungalow done for 800

Pious14

listermint wrote: »

You won't cover the tops of the gables in any way effectively to solve the problem


I would look at getting them pumped it's not that expensive and there is grants. I had a large bungalow done for 800

Only the top needs to be done ya? I don’t have to do the whole house like?

listermint

You can't just pump the top no.

Calahonda52

_Brian wrote: »

I think your looking to the wrong source for the draught.

Your draught is likely between the inside block and the plasterboard inside that rather than between the leaves of the block.

I think as suggested your best way to address this is seal under the plasterboard with expanding foam.

Brian is correct here, have not read the full post but if walls are dry lined then take off a wall vent and post a picture.

I have posted several times about this issue, either there or in Construction

_Brian

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Brian is correct here, have not read the full post but if walls are dry lined then take off a wall vent and post a picture.

I have posted several times about this issue, either there or in Construction

It may not be from the vents either.
I’ve seen where the gap between the board and inner lead is open to both the attic at the top and the rooms behind the skirting in the rooms, cold air from the attic streams down behind the board into the rooms.

GreeBo

_Brian wrote: »

It may not be from the vents either.
I’ve seen where the gap between the board and inner lead is open to both the attic at the top and the rooms behind the skirting in the rooms, cold air from the attic streams down behind the board into the rooms.

If this is the cause, and it easily could be, then drilling a line of 10mm holes 75-100mm apart across the top of the plasterboard in the attic and then squirting in a dab of expanding foam should seal it.

Calahonda52

_Brian wrote: »

It may not be from the vents either.
I’ve seen where the gap between the board and inner lead is open to both the attic at the top and the rooms behind the skirting in the rooms, cold air from the attic streams down behind the board into the rooms.

In this case, it fails the fire regs.
In addition, expanded foam is not airtight, yes better than nothing but not airtight

GreeBo

I think the OP would accept the permeability of expanding foam over the breeze from the skirting though!

Fingers Mcginty

garyh3 wrote: »

Ok Posted a few pics. I can actually get my hand between the cavity wall with ease !!!!

What do you think of the brick work ????
Can I just fill with expanding foam or would rock wool be better ?

Any comeback on the builder? or is this upto standard?

Comments please

Garyh3

My house is exactly the same. I can get my hand into the gap between the block and the external brick work. I'm tempted the put rockwool over the gap but someone in the past said it needs to be vented???
Getting conflicting reports. If it's supposed to be vented then why are there folk who get this filled with bead insulation?