Today i got hooted at....

jman0

Some people have been posting up examples of motorists hooting at them in various scenarios in the "idiot cyclist" thread.
It's one of those things we all despise: motorists using the relative safety of their metal box to audibly assualt us, and the general public also, for inane reasons.

Today i got hooted at because i was in-lane going round a roundabout, and this van wanted to enter the roundabout but had to brake since i was already on it, and "in his way".
I suppose in his mind, i have no right or something to be on the roundabout?

Legally of course traffic that is already on the roundabout has right of way.
Shouldn't he know that?

Idleater

jman0 wrote:

Shouldn't he know that?

No. The requirements for driving a van require that you abandon all sensibility, respect for the rules of the road and any notion of respect for other humans.

Take it on the chin. The guy is an ass, he will never change.

If you really want to irk him back, buy a car and sit in traffic.

L.

Bunnyhopper

At least he just hooted at you, that's something. I once had a guy in a Merc, with his roof down, shouting abuse at me because I'd moved out from the kerb in front of him. What he didn't notice was the cross-hatched section on the left that marks the place where the lane we were both in moves away from the kerb. (It was just outside the Wesley rugby ground in Donnybrook, outbound.)

As time passes I become more and more convinced that most road users in this country have no notion of how you're actually supposed to use roundabouts (i.e., lane selection, signalling, etc.). Roundabouts are never pleasant on a bike.

tywy

ever tried the walkinstown roundabout on a bike?

GBX

yeah ... I go on that twice a day .. great fun.

illumin

tywy wrote:

ever tried the walkinstown roundabout on a bike?

Thats a nightmare even in a car when its not busy. I cant imagine trying to turn right on it when cycling. I usually avoid going through roundabouts and cross the roads instead. It takes more time but i think its safer.

DirkVoodoo

Simple procedure (Unofficial rules of the road):

1) Extend arm nearest to offending jackass.

2) Make a fist and extend middle finger into an extended position.

3) Move off as jackass is left sitting in traffic.

blorg

Oh goody, excellent thread. Well for starters (and these are all cases where the offending motorist has actually _hooted_ at me):

• Stopped for an orange they had intended to break.
• Stopped for a newly turned red they had intended to break.
• Refusing to break a filter red (e.g. there was at least one green, but there was a red for the way myself and the motorist hooting was going - note I would never be obstructing traffic that had the green in this circumstance.)
• Stopped for a pedestrian on a zebra crossing.
• Stopped for a red light on a pedestrian crossing (hey, cyclists are meant to break these, right?)
• Cycling 3-5 feet from parallel-parked cars.
• Cycling along a (very short) route which due to roadworks does leave enough space for them to pass (incidentally I was travelling well over the 30km/h roadwords speed limit.)
• Cycling in a mandatory cycle lane that the motorist wanted to use to undertake another car in.
• Cycling in the middle of the left lane where the side is full of potholes and there is a near-empty right lane that they could use to overtake me (East Wall Road.)
• Proceeding around a roundabout and not yielding to motorist wanting to enter.
• Proceeding around a roundabout intending to continue around when a motorist overtakes me and exits.
• Motorist overtakes and immediately turns left.
• Proceeding straight on when motorist coming in opposite direction turns right into me.
• Motorist wants to exit a driveway or minor road and I don't yield.
• Motorist is waiting to join road coming out of a driveway with bonnet protruding over the cycle lane and I leave the lane to go around them rather than letting them out.
• Cycling in the middle of a lane with my arm extended to signal that I want to change lane.
• Cycling in the right lane with my arm extended to signal that I want to make a (legal) right turn (often hooting _as_ they overtake me on the wrong side of the road.)
• Stopped on the right edge of the right lane waiting to make a (legal) right turn.
• Proceeding through a junction where I have right of way but the motorist fails to observe _his_ yield (or stop) sign.
• Waiting at a red hooted at me because I didn't start off immediately when the _other_ direction went orange (actually turned out the pedestrian crossings were next, so we had to wait another minute!)
• Because I left the cycle lane to overtake other cyclists.
• Cycling along the contraflow cycle lane on a one way street (have been stopped by a garda over this one, had to point out the side of the road the lane was on and the direction all the signs pointed.)
• Cycling in a bus lane by a driver who was illegally using said bus lane.
• Using the inane cycle lane that moves out into the middle of the road coming up to Clonskeagh triangle.
• _Not_ using the inane cycle lane that moves out into the middle of the road coming up to Clonskeagh triangle.
• Cycling through Ranelagh in the middle of the road during rush hour because the cycle lane is occupied by illegally parked cars (and I can assure you, doing a speed that was not holding anybody up.)

cyclopath2001

blorg wrote:

[*]Cycling through Ranelagh in the middle of the road during rush hour because the cycle lane is occupied by illegally parked cars (and I can assure you, doing a speed that was not holding anybody up.)
[/LIST]

You were doing fine until this one.

It's illegal for a cyclist to move out of a cycle lane unless it is blocked by legally parked cars.

The correct procedure would have been to pull over, call the Gardai and wait until all the illegally parked vehicles had been removed. Make sure to have food and blankets with you as it might take a while!

Civilian_Target

Ranelage cycle lane's great! People make the most insane overtaking manouveres to get past you on Ranelagh - I never give them any room to do it if I can possibly help it (I'm not a slow cyclist).

They bust their asses to get past you, then you fly past them when they're queuing at the lights, and you're first off then they go green, and five minutes later you're in town and they're still probably kicking themselves trying to get onto Wicklow street

blorg

cyclopath2001 wrote:

The correct procedure would have been to pull over, call the Gardai and wait until all the illegally parked vehicles had been removed. Make sure to have food and blankets with you as it might take a while!

Oh, I am well ahead of you there ;-)

daymobrew

DirkVoodoo wrote:

2) Make a fist and extend middle finger into an extended position.

Don't lower yourself! I just smile, give the 'thumbs up' (being sarcastic) or note the reg plate and call TrafficWatch later.
I'll be in Blanch station on Tuesday as a follow-up of my report of a (very late) red light breaker. (The Garda who calls me is always surprised when I ask "which incident was that? I report a lot of incidents").

milod

blorg wrote:

Oh goody, excellent thread. Well for starters (and these are all cases where the offending motorist has actually _hooted_ at me):

Excellent list! I can tick most of the boxes there too and I'm getting angry just thinking about it - after a while on a bike you become immune to the stupid honks - the middle finger just pops up now as a reflex action...

blorg

milod wrote:

Excellent list! I can tick most of the boxes there too and I'm getting angry just thinking about it - after a while on a bike you become immune to the stupid honks - the middle finger just pops up now as a reflex action...

I know how you feel. In fairness _most_ of the time when things on that list happen drivers are actually quite decent. A driver pulled out suddenly right in front of me this morning and I had to screech to a halt, but she was apologetic and reversed back. I think things like that are often due to their misjudging my speed; they have a conception that all cyclists "go" around 10-15km/h and think they will get out in time. Of course if they actually hoot at you while they are doing something wrong, they are just "I own the road get out of my way" wánkers, simple as that.

I avoid the finger; you never know, it could be someone you know hooting at you in greeting. Honestly, has happened before! Besides, ignoring them completely or just giving a friendly wave písses these drivers off _much_ more in any case. So it works whether it's someone you know or not.

Victor

blorg wrote:

Oh goody, excellent thread. Well for starters (and these are all cases where the offending motorist has actually _hooted_ at me):

...

Are you OK now?

blorg

Victor wrote:

Are you OK now?

It's a sort of catharsis all right

HJ Simpson

The list has all been done. My personal favourite is the honking the horn as they come up behind you as you approach a left hand turn. Just in case you might like to stop and not slow them down as they make the left turn.
I think some motorist think their horns make cyclists disappear.

HJS

Tallafornia to town 5 days a week and back again

Raam

I got honked at yesterday for riding two abreast.
I couldn't sleep at all last night from thinking about it!

8kvscdpglqnyr4

I get honked at all the time by drivers when I interrupt their mobile phone conversation by knocking on the window and informing them it is illegal to use a mobile phone while driving.

Itsfixed

blorg wrote:

Oh goody, excellent thread. Well for starters (and these are all cases where the offending motorist has actually _hooted_ at me):

• Stopped for an orange they had intended to break.
• Stopped for a newly turned red they had intended to break.
• Refusing to break a filter red (e.g. there was at least one green, but there was a red for the way myself and the motorist hooting was going - note I would never be obstructing traffic that had the green in this circumstance.)
• Stopped for a pedestrian on a zebra crossing.
• Stopped for a red light on a pedestrian crossing (hey, cyclists are meant to break these, right?)
• Cycling 3-5 feet from parallel-parked cars.
• Cycling along a (very short) route which due to roadworks does leave enough space for them to pass (incidentally I was travelling well over the 30km/h roadwords speed limit.)
• Cycling in a mandatory cycle lane that the motorist wanted to use to undertake another car in.
• Cycling in the middle of the left lane where the side is full of potholes and there is a near-empty right lane that they could use to overtake me (East Wall Road.)
• Proceeding around a roundabout and not yielding to motorist wanting to enter.
• Proceeding around a roundabout intending to continue around when a motorist overtakes me and exits.
• Motorist overtakes and immediately turns left.
• Proceeding straight on when motorist coming in opposite direction turns right into me.
• Motorist wants to exit a driveway or minor road and I don't yield.
• Motorist is waiting to join road coming out of a driveway with bonnet protruding over the cycle lane and I leave the lane to go around them rather than letting them out.
• Cycling in the middle of a lane with my arm extended to signal that I want to change lane.
• Cycling in the right lane with my arm extended to signal that I want to make a (legal) right turn (often hooting _as_ they overtake me on the wrong side of the road.)
• Stopped on the right edge of the right lane waiting to make a (legal) right turn.
• Proceeding through a junction where I have right of way but the motorist fails to observe _his_ yield (or stop) sign.
• Waiting at a red hooted at me because I didn't start off immediately when the _other_ direction went orange (actually turned out the pedestrian crossings were next, so we had to wait another minute!)
• Because I left the cycle lane to overtake other cyclists.
• Cycling along the contraflow cycle lane on a one way street (have been stopped by a garda over this one, had to point out the side of the road the lane was on and the direction all the signs pointed.)
• Cycling in a bus lane by a driver who was illegally using said bus lane.
• Using the inane cycle lane that moves out into the middle of the road coming up to Clonskeagh triangle.
• _Not_ using the inane cycle lane that moves out into the middle of the road coming up to Clonskeagh triangle.
• Cycling through Ranelagh in the middle of the road during rush hour because the cycle lane is occupied by illegally parked cars (and I can assure you, doing a speed that was not holding anybody up.)

I've done nearly all these manoeuvres but i've never been beeped at. Mind you, i'm 70% deaf so maybe they have and I've never heard them.

Kenjd

Aliyah Faithful Talker wrote:

I get honked at all the time by drivers when I interrupt their mobile phone conversation by knocking on the window and informing them it is illegal to use a mobile phone while driving.

Excellant, I've been wanting to do that myself! Think i'll start doing it!!!
Drivers in this country just dont have much of a clue in terms of driving a car, never mind the rules of the road! But hey there is no-one to inforce safe driving practice!

daymobrew

Kenjd wrote:

Drivers in this country just dont have much of a clue in terms of driving a car, never mind the rules of the road! But hey there is no-one to inforce safe driving practice!

Call 1890-205-805 (TrafficWatch) to help remind the drivers of the rules.

I gave a statement this morning in Blanchardstown about a driver breaking a red light. He'll get a ticket. If he doesn't pay then we go to court.
Tomorrow morning I'm off to Mountjoy station about a guy making a dangerous u-turn on Drumcondra Road at Whitworth Road. And the SUV driver who blocked the pedestrian crossing at the same junction. I was soooo tempted to give the car a kick but this way is much sweeter.

cyclopath2001

I was cycling past a car stopped in traffic some years ago, the female passenger flicked a burning cigarette out the window. It landed right in front of me.

I stopped just before running over it, picked it up and carefully handed it back, politely, saying 'You dropped this'.

Now if I'd thrown a live hand-granade into the car you would not have had a bigger explosion. The passenger's boyfriend was bouncing off the roof, revving his engine but stuck in traffic. He seriously wanted to get at me but couldn't as he was totally boxed in. At traffic lights was incoherantly saying something about 'teaching me manners'.

He was crunching his gears, revving and screeching as he passed Pearse street Garda station, I was wondering what kind of complaint he was thinking of lodging...but he must have tought the better of it.

I felt smugly civic-minded at that moment.

junii

I should have reported the person that tailgaited me and overtook me within 2 inches (literally) today. How does trafficwatch work though... I mean its your word against theirs.

Drivers should be educated on how to overtake cyclists. Will there ever be an attempt to do this?
Or will we need to wait until loads of people get killed.

blorg

junii wrote:

Drivers should be educated on how to overtake cyclists. Will there ever be an attempt to do this?

They are, supposedly. It's in the rules of the road. However (some) drivers just don't care. Perhaps what we need is a "three foot law" as they have in a number of North American jurisdictions; makes it perfectly clear an unambiguous as to what is considered "safe overtaking." Of course along with that we would need enforcement or it's useless (penalty points would be a good idea.)

tywy

I'm a driver and a cyclist...I will never take a chance with a cyclist...what if the swerve out to dodge a pothole, you clip them, you're fúcked, it's always the drivers fault, you lose your no claims bonus or whatever and possibly put someone in hospital. Not worth it for gaining the extra 30 secs you wait until the road is clear enough to overtake

Capt'n Midnight

blorg wrote:

They are, supposedly. It's in the rules of the road. However (some) drivers just don't care. Perhaps what we need is a "three foot law" as they have in a number of North American jurisdictions; makes it perfectly clear an unambiguous as to what is considered "safe overtaking." Of course along with that we would need enforcement or it's useless (penalty points would be a good idea.)

I'd swear that we have a three foot rule here

cyclopath2001 wrote:

Here, the law set out in SI 182/1997:

Quote:
10. (1) A driver shall not overtake, or attempt to overtake, if to do so would endanger, or cause inconvenience to, any other person.

(2) A driver shall not overtake, or attempt to overtake, unless the roadway ahead of the driver—

( a ) is free from approaching traffic, pedestrians and any obstruction, and

( b ) is sufficiently long and wide to permit the overtaking to be completed without danger or inconvenience to other traffic or pedestrians.

Yes folks many of the laws and regulations regarding traffic mean that in general you don't cause inconvenience to the person who has right of way, even if they could easily avoid you
NB. if all else is equal a cyclist is a second class road user, whereas motorists are only third class road users.

Capt'n Midnight

p31 of www.transport.ie/upload/general/7604-0.pdf
RULES OF THE ROAD / DRAFT Revised Version for / Public Consultation / May 2006

Cyclists And Motorcyclists
Cyclists and motorcyclists are exceptionally vulnerable to the consequences of impact
in any road traffic collision. All road users have an obligation to be aware of cyclists
and motorcyclists.
A driver must not put cyclists or motorcyclists at risk. In particular, you must be
watchful for cyclists and motorcyclists at junctions, where cycle lanes merge with
roads, when changing lanes and when stopping or turning. On left turns, be especially
watchful, front and rear, for cyclists and mopeds close to the kerb and on right turns,
watch out for motorcyclists who may be approaching from the opposite direction, or
overtaking you. Check mirrors and blindspots.
When overtaking cyclists or motorcyclists, drivers should give ample clearance. This
is especially so in wet or windy weather or when road conditions are icy.
Care should be taken when turning left in case a cyclist on the inside is continuing
straight ahead. Motorists should not park or drive on cycle lanes.

but not defined as in the Highway Code

blorg

The point of a "three foot" law is that it codifies an exact distance. Come closer than three feet to a cyclist while overtaking and you are breaking the law, no debate, no exceptions. "Endanger," "cause inconvenience," or "ample clearance" are open to interpretation in any given circumstances. "Three feet" is not, you either came that close or you didn't. Enforcement, of course, is another matter.

daymobrew

junii wrote:

I should have reported the person that tailgaited me and overtook me within 2 inches (literally) today. How does trafficwatch work though... I mean its your word against theirs.

Yes, it is 'he said - she said' but when I make a statement in the Garda station I am told that I could be found 'in contempt' if I lie.

cyclopath2001 wrote:

I was cycling past a car stopped in traffic some years ago, the female passenger flicked a burning cigarette out the window. It landed right in front of me.
..snip..
He was crunching his gears, revving and screeching as he passed Pearse street Garda station, I was wondering what kind of complaint he was thinking of lodging...but he must have tought the better of it.

The best thing is for you to contact the Litter Wardens for the local authority (Dublin City Council - 1800-251-500, though I just email these days). Just provide reg plate and car description along with location, time, date and any other info to help confirm stuff (male/female driver? notable bumper stickers? passengers? was the cigarette dropped or 'launched' out the window - anything). Most drivers pay without you being called to court.

Bunnyhopper

daymobrew, do you happen to know who I should contact about littering in the Phoenix Park? I emailed the OPW about an incident a while back, asking whether I should send the details to them or one of the Councils or what, and never heard a thing back from them. It was probably too long ago to follow it up now, but I'll know for future reference.

Victor

Bunnyhopper wrote:

daymobrew, do you happen to know who I should contact about littering in the Phoenix Park? I emailed the OPW about an incident a while back, asking whether I should send the details to them or one of the Councils or what, and never heard a thing back from them. It was probably too long ago to follow it up now, but I'll know for future reference.

Yes, the OPW, try to find out who the park wardens / constables are.

Council has little to do with it unless the want to persue the OPW.

TempestSabre

tywy wrote:

I'm a driver and a cyclist...I will never take a chance with a cyclist...what if the swerve out to dodge a pothole, you clip them, you're fúcked, it's always the drivers fault, you lose your no claims bonus or whatever and possibly put someone in hospital. Not worth it for gaining the extra 30 secs you wait until the road is clear enough to overtake

Same here. However I'd say theres just as many bad and dangerous cyclists out there that obey no rules either. Though you do see the odd Guard stopping them from time to time.

Raam

TempestSabre wrote:

I'd say theres just as many bad and dangerous cyclists out there that obey no rules either.

Yup, there's plenty. It boils down to a distinct lack of respect for other road users: "I'm alright, so I don't care"

RainyDay

daymobrew wrote:

Call 1890-205-805 (TrafficWatch) to help remind the drivers of the rules.

I gave a statement this morning in Blanchardstown about a driver breaking a red light. He'll get a ticket. If he doesn't pay then we go to court.
Tomorrow morning I'm off to Mountjoy station about a guy making a dangerous u-turn on Drumcondra Road at Whitworth Road. And the SUV driver who blocked the pedestrian crossing at the same junction. I was soooo tempted to give the car a kick but this way is much sweeter.

You're my hero! I made the mistake of making some of my early reports directly to the Garda Station, instead of using the Traffic Watch. From the deafening silence, I guess that the station guard just ignored me. But when you go through traffic watch, the incident is logged on their system straight away, and is then passed over to the guard at the station, which makes it just a bit harder to ignore.

Last week, I used my mobile phone to take a few photos of the BMW driver who drove against me while taking a short cut the wrong way down a very narrow 1-way street (Richmond Avenue South, beside Milltown Luas station). The look on his face was priceless, but I'd pay good money to see the look on his face when the guard arrives at his door to follow up my Traffic Watch complaint.

irlirishkev

blorg wrote:

[*]Motorist overtakes and immediately turns left.
[/LIST]

This is my pet peeve. Motorists just DO NOT check their mirrors. A mate of mine was knocked off his bike recently when this happened. He was coming down the N11 by the Donnybrook garage. He was going straight on. A taxi driver overtook and immediatley swung in to turn left. My mate brakes, but was going quite fast. Ends up going over the bonnet and lands on the other side of the car. Driver didn't even get out of the car, just apologised and drove off. My mate was too angry/shaken to get the car details.

Just the other day I saw a cyclist get trapped between a car and a parked car, as a driver pulled in to park.

I'm constantly having to brake hard because of idiots who don't check their mirrors.. It really makes me angry!

K.

blorg

I'd note that overtake and immediately turn left isn't even a matter of not using mirrors as the driver starts off behind you. It's another case of simple "cyclist blindness," they just mentally block out the cyclist. Overtake and immediately turn left gappened to me with a taxi on Aungier Street and I ended up leaving black rubber marks from my grips the length of his car (pity I didn't have the ends exposed.) Of course he jumps out and is going mental at _me_ when a garda flicks over from the other side of the road, saw the whole thing, and starts threatening the taxi driver with a dangerous driving prosecution and loss of his license. Well I have never seen a turn-around like it, the driver is grovelling in his apology in short order.

tywy

RainyDay wrote:

Last week, I used my mobile phone to take a few photos of the BMW driver who drove against me while taking a short cut the wrong way down a very narrow 1-way street (Richmond Avenue South, beside Milltown Luas station). The look on his face was priceless, but I'd pay good money to see the look on his face when the guard arrives at his door to follow up my Traffic Watch complaint.

That's happened me a couple of times so I just cycle up the middle of the road...one car the other week got really pee-ed off and kept driving, I'd say she would have hit me if I hadn't moved out of the way. I got her to slow down though

RainyDay

tywy wrote:

That's happened me a couple of times so I just cycle up the middle of the road...one car the other week got really pee-ed off and kept driving, I'd say she would have hit me if I hadn't moved out of the way. I got her to slow down though

At the same location - Richmond Avenue South?

daymobrew

blorg wrote:

a garda flicks over from the other side of the road, saw the whole thing, and starts threatening the taxi driver with a dangerous driving prosecution and loss of his license.

I'm guessing that no action was taken against the driver, which is a real pity. The Gardai need to stop being nice to people (drivers, pedestrians and cyclists) and start dishing out punishments. People often need financial incentives to learn (didn't we all change our tune wrt plastic bags when they cost a measly 15c, a minute percentage of the probably groceries cost).

tywy

Yeah it's Richmond Ave South.

blorg

daymobrew wrote:

I'm guessing that no action was taken against the driver, which is a real pity. The Gardai need to stop being nice to people (drivers, pedestrians and cyclists) and start dishing out punishments. People often need financial incentives to learn (didn't we all change our tune wrt plastic bags when they cost a measly 15c, a minute percentage of the probably groceries cost).

No, the Garda told me that he told the taxi driver that he'd be filing a report and to expect to hear back from him in a few weeks, e.g. left him hanging. You are right that more needs to be done though, have a case ongoing at the moment that hopefully will be going to court.

TempestSabre

When I'm driving my pet peeve is cyclists and motorbikes undertaking me as I'm trying to turn left. Regardless that the indicator is on for an age and that I'm easing across. All it takes is to slow down a bit and a wave and I'd be gone before you get to the junction.

Traffic would flow a lot smoother is all users would leave little gaps to allow people to make turns, get out of junctions etc. Instead everyones racing to fill every tiny gap and block people regardless if it doesn't get you anywhere quicker.

This morning I was hooted by a biker because I slowed down slightly to let a bus pull out and around an obstruction in the bus lane. I must have held him up by what 5 secs?

blorg

Part of the problem there (with the cyclists anyway) is the design of the cycle "facilities" which generally encourage this behaviour.

TempestSabre

I think its just selfish and impatience and you see all road users increasingly doing it.

blorg

My point is that cycle lanes are on the left, inside the lane of the motorist turning left, and it's actually technically illegal to leave them (unless they have changed to a dashed line AND you are turning right AND have indicated this - not going straight on.)

Personally if I see a motorist indicating left approaching a junction I will swing right into the middle of the traffic lane behind them, making it clear that I'm not going to undertake. In fact I try to do this anyway, indicators or not, as many motorists don't bother indicating.

EDIT: I think this is common sense and considerate but technically I am breaking the law by doing so.

TempestSabre

Slowing down or stopping isn't illegal.

blorg

Sure, neither is slowing down or stopping illegal for the motorist and the guy in the cycle lane going straight on actually has the right of way.

TempestSabre

Thats got nothing to do with it.

When driving or cycling even with right of way I often slow down or stop to let people out, it just makes life less stressful, and personally I prefer to take positive action and have someone where I can see them. But I guess if you're too busy to be nice to someone...;)

skeegan

Yesterday morning I was undertaking a car that was turning left. There was no cycle lane present (though there will be soon -it's the Rock Road). I checked his indicator before passing him on the inside in heavy traffic. As I was passing him, he turned left and I clipped his mirror. He rolled down the window. Neither of us were too angry and there was no damage done. I am 99% sure that his indicator was not on though he claims it was. I believe he switched it on as he was making the turn.

Does anybody know the legal position of bikes (or other vehicles) undertaking? Is it legal in all (or any) circumstances?

TempestSabre

Indicating as you turn and move is a really dangerous habit many fall into. Especially buses and taxi's.