L Drivers

unnameduser

Another thread sparked this comment

Anyhu, the driver test waiting list is obviously a farce and L drivers must drive unaccompanied. However why don't L drivers use their fecking L plates?

Sam Vimes

unnameduser wrote:

Another thread sparked this comment

Anyhu, the driver test waiting list is obviously a farce and L drivers must drive unaccompanied. However why don't L drivers use their fecking L plates?

so they can drive on motorways i assume. if you've seen learners without their L plates up, how do you know they were learners?

TempestSabre

unnameduser wrote:

Another thread sparked this comment

Anyhu, the driver test waiting list is obviously a farce and L drivers must drive unaccompanied. However why don't L drivers use their fecking L plates?

Why ask the question? Its pretty obvous why they don't. So they don't get stopped (fat chance) and its also an image thing, which is why some people cut the white off, which looks completely pathetic IMO. If I see a L plate I give them a bit of extra room and time.

unnameduser

Commander Vimes wrote:

so they can drive on motorways i assume. if you've seen learners without their L plates up, how do you know they were learners?

Great question. Your Medal is in the post. You cant tell! But i am speaking about the people i know who are on a provisional. I can think for about 8 ppl i know who are on prov's and dont use L plates.

I agree with the last poster. With the L plates up one can identify a learner and give that bit of extra space.

starn

When I was a learner I never had my L plates up. The main reason being the hassel it used to cause going round Dubblin city center. What I found was that as soon as other drivers saw you had a L plate up they used to try and Bully there way past me in traffic, at Junctions. Beep and Flash thre light and all that sh1te so I took them off and never got anymore hassele

aphex™

unnameduser wrote:

With the L plates up one can identify a learner and give that bit of extra space.

Well that is not what happens. What happens is the brilliant drivers of Ireland start pulling out in front of you in case they have to wait .2 seconds longer or overtake you going around a corner (which had another turn off around it) which makes for a very dangerous driving experience.

People become impatient and irratic when they see a learner.

Wishbone Ash

Many who do display them cannot even get that right. Ever notice how many are put on back to front. :rolleyes:

aphex™

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Many who do display them cannot even get that right. Ever notice how many are put on back to front. :rolleyes:

You could always, you know, watch the road instead of checking to see if every driver has the stickers on correctly.

Wishbone Ash

aphex&#8482 wrote:

You could always, you know, watch the road instead of checking to see if every driver has the stickers on correctly.

They stick out a mile - I don't have to specifically look for them.

TempestSabre

aphex&#8482 wrote:

Well that is not what happens. What happens is the brilliant drivers of Ireland start pulling out in front of you in case they have to wait .2 seconds longer or overtake you going around a corner (which had another turn off around it) which makes for a very dangerous driving experience.

People become impatient and irratic when they see a learner.

Since there are very few "brilliant" drivers, it can't happen very often. Going by the number of Learners you see holding up traffic on main routes during peak traffic times I can understand people frustration. :mad: Can they not stay on quiet routes off peak while they are learning.

Problem is you can drive in this country with no checks on you at all.

aphex&#8482 wrote:

You could always, you know, watch the road instead of checking to see if every driver has the stickers on correctly.

If you can't manage to do both you shouldn't be driving.

Dr. Loon

starn wrote:

When I was a learner I never had my L plates up. The main reason being the hassel it used to cause going round Dubblin city center. What I found was that as soon as other drivers saw you had a L plate up they used to try and Bully there way past me in traffic, at Junctions. Beep and Flash thre light and all that sh1te so I took them off and never got anymore hassele

Spot on. A few weeks upon learning to drive I cut out approaching the Pavillions roundabout in Swords in heavy traffic. I had my L plates up and some c*nt beeps me before I even had the chance to turn the key again. Stressed me out as I was a poor learner and I cut out again! Similar situations happened to me all the time with the plates on.

I now don't put the L plates up and have had no hassle, although I'm now a fully confident driver and rarely cut out, but I find people accept the small things easier without the L plates. Most drivers I've come across are arséholes though. The impatience around the city is amazing.

TempestSabre

Why are you driving around the city center and/or in heavy traffic if you only still at the very basic stage of stalling the car?

mloc123

I never had L plates up when I was on a provo, reason being I didn't want to attract extra attention to myself. In 3-4 years of driving I was never stopped.

Dr. Loon

TempestSabre wrote:

Why are you driving around the city center and/or in heavy traffic if you only still at the very basic stage of stalling the car?

Why can't you read my post before replying?

"although I'm now a fully confident driver and rarely cut out"

Anan1

L plates are not just for the benefit of the learner driver - they also serve to warn other road users of a potential hazard.

TempestSabre

Dr. Loon wrote:

Why can't you read my post before replying?

"although I'm now a fully confident driver and rarely cut out"

Its nothing to do with confidence. It doesn't make sense to drive around in heavy/busy traffic when you are learning. Regardless of when it was.

Anan1

TempestSabre wrote:

Its nothing to do with confidence. It doesn't make sense to drive around in heavy/busy traffic when you are learning. Regardless of when it was.

I'm guessing that he meant competent when he said confident.

TempestSabre

Anan1 wrote:

I'm guessing that he meant competent when he said confident.

Thinking you are competent is confidence.

maidhc

Dr. Loon wrote:

I had my L plates up and some c*nt beeps me before I even had the chance to turn the key again. Stressed me out as I was a poor learner and I cut out again! Similar situations happened to me all the time with the plates on.

You shouldn't be stalling. Being able to make the car move is one of the more basic driving skills, and one that should be mastered before going on a public road!

Dr. Loon wrote:

Most drivers I've come across are arséholes though. The impatience around the city is amazing.

Busy city... busy people.

TempestSabre

In some countries moving construction vehicles and agricultural vehicles can't be done during rush hour. Learner drivers should be the same IMO.

Squirrel

I don't have L - Plates up anymore. I used to and I found myself being cut up, being given the finger for staying at a safe speed, being overtaken on a blind bend, being overtaken because I was waiting to turn right (yes, overtaking, as in on the right), being overtaken when waiting to go around a corner joining a road with traffic (the guy who overtook me caused a crash and tried to blame it on me, got done for dangerous driving in the end)

Now I don't drive with them, people give me space to move out, their more courteous towards me. And it also makes me a better driver. If I'm going to be doing a hill-start people used to give me loads of room in case I rolled back but now with no room I can't rolled back (and I have never rolled back thus far on a hill start).

Us Irish are very good at generalisations and one of them is all L-Plated drivers are sh1t and are going to slow me down getting to sit in traffic 100 metres up the road.

Oh and I have applied for my driving test and if I was in a different country I'd have a chance to show that I'm a competent driver, if I fail I'll put my L-Plates back up when I get my test

TempestSabre

Oddly enough I find all those things happen regardless. Tends to happen more often when you drive a smaller car too. Such is life.

Whats the legal and insurance implications of not having the plates up. Of course in practise I assume with the lack of enforcement probably nothing would happen.

maidhc

I often drive a car with L plates, even though I have a full licence. I never have noticed any difference in the way people treat me. Perhaps people have more respect for learners driving aging ford mondeos...

ljtracey

I suppose id be of the same opinion. My sister and i share our car, shes on provisional and im on full licence. For that reason, our L plates are left up even though shes away at the moment and rarely uses the car. Iv never had any problems like that. besides, i suppose if i did mess up (never do:),it would allow other drivers to vent their anger at something abstract like the L rather than me as an individual.

Bam Bam

TempestSabre wrote:

In some countries moving construction vehicles and agricultural vehicles can't be done during rush hour. Learner drivers should be the same IMO.

Thats one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. So basically L-drivers will be late to work, and late home.

Makes sense for construction vehicles, but would never work in Ireland.

Squirrel

TempestSabre wrote:

Oddly enough I find all those things happen regardless. Tends to happen more often when you drive a smaller car too. Such is life.

Whats the legal and insurance implications of not having the plates up. Of course in practise I assume with the lack of enforcement probably nothing would happen.

Well I am in a Micra so could have something to do with it. My licence states I have to drive accompanied, so I do. I haven't studied every mm of my licence but I haven't seen anything on it stating I need L plates.

Insurance wise the company said if I'm insured with them they'll cover me regardless.

Sam Vimes

unnameduser wrote:

Great question. Your Medal is in the post. You cant tell! But i am speaking about the people i know who are on a provisional. I can think for about 8 ppl i know who are on prov's and dont use L plates.

well forgive me. i assumed that you were talking about people in general because if i knew 8 learners who drove without their plates up, i'd ask them why instead of posting on boards

Squirrel wrote:

Now I don't drive with them, people give me space to move out, their more courteous towards me. And it also makes me a better driver. If I'm going to be doing a hill-start people used to give me loads of room in case I rolled back but now with no room I can't rolled back (and I have never rolled back thus far on a hill start).

that pisses me off. i've been driving a few months and i always have my L plates up. i'm not 100% confident on hill starts yet though i've never rolled back and people pull up right behind me. there's no need to stop that feckin close people!!


speaking of which, who's liable if a learner with plates displayed rolls back into someone who decided to park 6 inches behind them?

TempestSabre

Bam Bam wrote:

Thats one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. So basically L-drivers will be late to work, and late home.

Makes sense for construction vehicles, but would never work in Ireland.

The L plate is for you to learn to drive not drive everywhere unqualified. Thats why you are meant to have a qualified driver with you to prevent people using the L plate as a means of transport before they are qualified. But with the lack of enforcement makes a farce of that.

Road safety is a joke in this country and this is perfect example, people simply don't take driving (or the laws) seriously.

Squirrel

Commander Vimes wrote:

that pisses me off. i've been driving a few months and i always have my L plates up. i'm not 100% confident on hill starts yet though i've never rolled back and people pull up right behind me. there's no need to stop that feckin close people!!


speaking of which, who's liable if a learner with plates displayed rolls back into someone who decided to park 6 inches behind them?

I've found that them being up my ass helps me an awful lot as I'm fairly confident on hill starts. If you're not confident go to a car park which has a hill (car park in Marlay Park being perfect) and do hill starts for ages, I did that when I was first learning, that and living on a hill.

Not sure about that one, suppose the learner would get most of the blame, as the L plates are only an indication to others that you're learning, not an excuse

maidhc

Commander Vimes wrote:

speaking of which, who's liable if a learner with plates displayed rolls back into someone who decided to park 6 inches behind them?

The car that was moving, i.e. the learner.

How hard is it to be able to do a hill start? Spend a few hours some saturday or sunday practicing in some quiet cul-de-sac or empty industrial estate.

TempestSabre

Squirrel wrote:

Well I am in a Micra so could have something to do with it. My licence states I have to drive accompanied, so I do. I haven't studied every mm of my licence but I haven't seen anything on it stating I need L plates.

Insurance wise the company said if I'm insured with them they'll cover me regardless.

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/transport/motoring/provisional_driving_licence.html

"...All provisional licence holders, must display L-plates to the front and rear of the vehicle they are driving at all times. ..."

Better hope that question doesn't come up.;)

Squirrel

TempestSabre wrote:

The L plate is for you to learn to drive not drive everywhere unqualified. Thats why you are meant to have a qualified driver with you to prevent people using the L plate as a means of transport before they are qualified. But with the lack of enforcement makes a farce of that.

Road safety is a joke in this country and this is perfect example, people simply don't take driving (or the laws) seriously.

If I was waiting less than 4 months even for a driving test I'd happily leave my L plates up, but as I've been waiting 5 and still no sign of one it's a bit ridiculous. I don't drive on the motorway because the law says I can't, I stick to speed limits becasue the law says I have to, I don't have a little sheet of white paper which i could hide behind muck if I wanted because the law on that is ridiculous. I pay through the nose for insurance, but it's ok, because them little sheets will stop me crashing

Squirrel

TempestSabre wrote:

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/transport/motoring/provisional_driving_licence.html

"...All provisional licence holders, must display L-plates to the front and rear of the vehicle they are driving at all times. ..."

Better hope that question doesn't come up.;)

Have you ever sped? Have you ever even moved the car on your road without wearing your seatbelt?

I'm not condoning driving without L plates. But I don't see how they make the roads safer? What is the punishment for not having L plates do you know? Makes no mention of it there

TempestSabre

Do you have a list of the laws you ignore?

TempestSabre

Squirrel wrote:

Have you ever sped? Have you ever even moved the car on your road without wearing your seatbelt?

I'm not condoning driving without L plates. But I don't see how they make the roads safer? What is the punishment for not having L plates do you know? Makes no mention of it there

They make the roads safer because everyone knows to give you space and consideration, your likely to do something unexpected due to inexperience.

For example a huge exhaust and a bat wing on a yaris is natures way of saying "muppet steer clear" to everone else.

ai ing

TempestSabre wrote:

The L plate is for you to learn to drive not drive everywhere unqualified. Thats why you are meant to have a qualified driver with you to prevent people using the L plate as a means of transport before they are qualified. But with the lack of enforcement makes a farce of that.

Road safety is a joke in this country and this is perfect example, people simply don't take driving (or the laws) seriously.

For a majority of people it only takes a few months at most to learn how to drive well enough for general driving and to pass their test. With the waiting lists for tests over a year in some places you must understand the gaping hole in the
regulation. Even the Gardai understand the problem to the extent that they often do not care about someone driving on a provisional license.

As an example how would you feel if you went to get your TV license but told you cannot get it for a year. Would you get rid of your tv for the year while waiting for your license or would you simply keep watching your tv?

TempestSabre

ai ing wrote:

For a majority of people it only takes a few months at most to learn how to drive well enough for general driving and to pass their test....

Why then is there a approx a 50% failure rate of the 1st test.

Consider that in relation to the numbers of people of the road who wouldn't or didn't pass the test, but yet are on the road.

Stark

I always leave my L-plates up. Never got hassle from other drivers that I haven't noticed people without L-plates getting.

I also notice the gardaí don't give a **** when they see you driving on the motorways with L-plates up. Although I was a bit nervous heading down a slip-road onto the M50 before sandwiched between two garda cars front and back of me

the_syco

TempestSabre wrote:

Why then is there a approx a 50% failure rate of the 1st test.

Consider that in relation to the numbers of people of the road who wouldn't or didn't pass the test, but yet are on the road.

Consider the amount of people who have a full license, but who never sat the test. Consider that anyone who has a license can become a teacher, without having to learn how to teach. And there are some bad teachers out there. I think that industry is unregulated, as well.

Mate takes them off. Reason: with them on, other drivers ignore you to the point of nearly casuing an accident, knowing well that the L-Driver will be blamed.

Sam Vimes

maidhc wrote:

The car that was moving, i.e. the learner.

How hard is it to be able to do a hill start? Spend a few hours some saturday or sunday practicing in some quiet cul-de-sac or empty industrial estate.

well i can do them, i just psych myself out and get nervous when i'm sitting there for ages waiting for the light to go green with someone up my arse. its grand when i do it. i just get nervous about it

Stark

the_syco wrote:

Consider that anyone who has a license can become a teacher, without having to learn how to teach. And there are some bad teachers out there. I think that industry is unregulated, as well.

I've had many lessons from many different instructors and although they all came highly recommended, they all told me completely different things regarding what way to drive. I really ****ing wish they'd train all instructors and give them the definitive rules of driving. Better still, actually publish a more verbose version of the rules of the road so you don't have to take the instructor's word on something.

Squirrel

TempestSabre wrote:

They make the roads safer because everyone knows to give you space and consideration, your likely to do something unexpected due to inexperience.

For example a huge exhaust and a bat wing on a yaris is natures way of saying "muppet steer clear" to everone else.

As does old guy driving a Rover. These are generalisations, I have friends, on provisionals that would be better drivers than my sister, mother who both have full licences.

Would you behave differently if someone had L plates up in front of you?

Heinrich

Squirrel wrote:

IOh and I have applied for my driving test and if I was in a different country I'd have a chance to show that I'm a competent driver, if I fail I'll put my L-Plates back up when I get my test

If you were caught driving in Switzerland without L plates and accompanied by driver with a minimun of 2 years driving experience you woulf find yourself in very serious trouble!

Unfortunately it is up to the driving testers to decide if you are competent or not.

Squirrel

Heinrich wrote:

If you were caught driving in Switzerland without L plates and accompanied by driver with a minimun of 2 years driving experience you woulf find yourself in very serious trouble!

Unfortunately it is up to the driving testers to decide if you are competent or not.

Unfortunately that is the case. What is the waiting time for the test in Switzerland?

TempestSabre

Squirrel wrote:

As does old guy driving a Rover. These are generalisations, ...

Actually its experience.

How do you know its an old guy driving a rover from behind?

Squirrel wrote:

I have friends, on provisionals that would be better drivers than my sister, mother who both have full licences.

Yet they have full licences...;)

Squirrel wrote:

Would you behave differently if someone had L plates up in front of you?

Already answered this.

maidhc

Squirrel wrote:

As does old guy driving a Rover. These are generalisations, I have friends, on provisionals that would be better drivers than my sister, mother who both have full licences.

Better perhaps, but safer?

If someone is a crap driver, but well aware of this and drives at an appropiate manner they will generally be safe drivers. Problem at the moment is there are so many muppets on the road (many young and inexperienced) who believe they are a love child of alonso and schumacher. They probably are quite good drivers, but nowhere near as good as they think, take completely silly risks, and ultimately die.

Passing the driving test involves a quick spin around town, and doesn't really evaluate your skill, maturity and general cop on. The lengthy waiting list, and accompanied driver regime at least gives people the opportunity to get experience. I hope no one here believes that anyone should be left drive unaccompanied without restrictions without at LEAST 3 months experience driving, and ideally more.

When I started drving at 17 I KNOW I took far more risks than I do now, some in hindsight were suicidal.

Heinrich

Squirrel wrote:

Unfortunately that is the case. What is the waiting time for the test in Switzerland?

What would that change. If you are supposed to have an experienced driver accompagnying then that's that! The judge would set you straight on that one and probably with a fine thrown in.

You don't make the laws, you abide by them.

TempestSabre

Without effective enforcement of the prov law what happens in reality is that in this country if you don't have any licence or training to drive a car, your unlikely to be caught unless you have a accident.

saobh_ie

I don't have mine up because I'm not learning anymore.

Not, I'm learning all the time as should everybody else. You can be driving for twenty years and still have stuff to learn.

Okay, once you pass the DOE test there's no instructors about for cars (I haven't been able to find an car instrutor with skill yet) but I passed the bike test two years ago and am taking training whenever I have a bit of extra cash knocking around to clean up my skills and learn that little bit more from a professional. (motorcycle instruction is typically at a level 30 to 50 times above what you get in a driving school).

NeMiSiS

You see.. genrally.. the lessons people get are geared towards the very basics of driving car, very soon after the lessons are geared towards 'getting you to pass the test', this is flawed, because the test well.. the test is a load of crap.
TK

TempestSabre

NeMiSiS wrote:

You see.. genrally.. the lessons people get are geared towards the very basics of driving car, very soon after the lessons are geared towards 'getting you to pass the test', this is flawed, because the test well.. the test is a load of crap.
TK

How is driving on a prov with no test or instruction better?