Clique

Faith

Where did this word go wrong? It's a french word, and accordingly, should be pronounced as the French say it. "Kleeck", not "click". It seems that nobody understands this anymore, as all I ever here is people referring to "clicks" and genuinely not knowing that it's pronounced "kleeck". Even www.webster.com has two pronunciations for it.

Or am I wrong? Has the word just evolved? Is it actually acceptable, nay correct, to pronouce it "click"?

JohnWishbone11

if it gets the point across and your not too big on semantics but more interested in the sum on the parts then i think its okay.

oscarBravo

I respectfully disagree.

Scraggs

Well yes, its a derivative of a French word but in the process of being adopted by English speakers the pronounciation has changed naturally.
Both pronunciations are acceptable according to your source and Cambridge dictionary so you're not exactly 'wrong' in pronouncing it [ k l i k ] or 'kleeque' (or those who say [ k l I k ] or 'clik' )

Talliesin

/'klɪk/ was almost exclusively a New World pronounciations until quite really, that is to say the pronounciation of a group of English speakers that force the more common English pronounciation onto words so avidly that they even pronounce their own names that way.

I don't mind new pronounciations being adopted much, but it's so different to the pronounciation /klik/ and so close to that of the word "click" and makes so little sense to not rhyme with unique that it's just confusing.

Nowhere near as confusing as the people who actually spell it "click".

mike65

Can't see why anyone would look at clique and see "click". Bit sad really.

Mike.

generalmiaow

there's plenty of other words with the same ending which people have no problem with: pique, mystique

Faith

Aye, that's true generalmiaow. The first time I heard it pronounced "click", I didn't know what they were talking about. I meam, nobody pronounces "unique" as "you-nick", or "mystique" as "mis-tick", so why is it done with "clique"? Maybe it's just a lack of awareness.

hullaballoo

Faith wrote:

I meam, nobody pronounces "unique" as "you-nick", or "mystique" as "mis-tick", so why is it done with "clique"?

Aye, they would do in the north...and probably in Scotland?

Faith

Nope, I've never heard it done over here.

Do people really do that?

Talliesin

hullaballoo, I'm from the North, and I can speak English.

Faith

Talliesin wrote:

hullaballoo, I'm from the North, and I can speak English.

Lmao!

JohnWishbone11

I'm going to get sitebanned if I try dragging disputes into other forums.

hullaballoo

Talliesin wrote:

hullaballoo, I'm from the North, and I can speak English.

Yeah, because the point I was making was that Northerners can't speak English.

Talliesin

I know, was just being a bit sarky.

Besides, I actually do have an impediment when it comes to some sounds, so I lied

Faith

JohnWishbone11 wrote:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055004920 (last post)

Colm.

Contrary to what you seem to believe, my original post wasn't aimed at you, nor was it an attack on you. Your spelling of the word simply reminded me that I wanted to ask this question.

I still think it should be pronounced "kleeck" though.

hullaballoo

Talliesin wrote:

I know, was just being a bit sarky.

Besides, I actually do have an impediment when it comes to some sounds, so I lied

'Sfunny, I was just going to say that I was just being a bit sarky when I posted that.

Nah, my point wasn't that Northerners say "click" pronounced "click", but that the inflection in some Northern accents narrows the "i" part of "clique" so that it sounds a bit like click. It was a silly point, admittedly. I must have gotten overexcited.

r3nu4l

Scraggs wrote:

Well yes, its a derivative of a French word but in the process of being adopted by English speakers the pronounciation has changed naturally.

Not sure I agree with this, we don't like it when the English start pronouncing Irish surnames incorrectly - Haughey becomes Hockey or Kinsella becomes Kin-sella etc. We consider this wrong and feel that the English are too lazy and disrespectful to learn how to pronounce these words.

I think that clique can become ingrained in the English language but not as 'click'! English is already cluttered with enough words having two meanings "I had jam on toast while sitting in a traffic jam", "I spoke to him about the spoke on my bicycle".

It does seem that those who speak of 'clicks' are just ignorant of the words original meaning and think it is some sort of made up word rather than an import.

Faith

Click is a Thunderdome favourite at the moment. They're all in clicks in there!

Tar.Aldarion

I have never heard this horrendous pronunciation before, and I never want too. :eek:

parliament

If you have never heard it pronounced 'clicks who must not interact with the general public all to often. If it has become an accepted norm and dictionarys allow for both pronunciations can you really call it 'sad' that people do not pronounce it correctly?

Tar.Aldarion

I would call it annoying, much like the minor spelling errors in your post, annoy me. It is a personal preference, as it is a word that I think sounds lovely.
Also, I never really hear people saying that word, apart from a lecturer yesterday, that pronounced it like I do.

parliament

Oh god..one spelling mistake. Sorry but I'm doing work at and reading the boards at the same time.

ps no capitalisation of G on god was intentional

r3nu4l

parliament wrote:

Oh god..one spelling mistake. Sorry but I'm doing work at and reading the boards at the same time.

ps no capitalisation of G on god was intentional

Hee hee, Tar is a Spell Czech mod so you can pretty much rely on him/her/it to pcik up on you're errurs (couldn't resist)

Well, I still think that the word should be left as it is, it helps bring much-needed diversity to the language, we didn't change the word 'entrepreneur' and it survived well, so why change 'clique'?

Faith

Just to interject here with a quick reminder, this is not Spell Czechs and is not a place for picking on peoples grammar and spelling mistakes. Doing this can and will result in a ban.

However, txt spk won't be well received either.

Tar.Aldarion

I don't capitalise god either. I am not having a go at your spelling(There is more than one mistake. ), I was just pointing out that it annoys me slightly(As a personal preference, being a pedant.), as an example, and I did not call it sad?




EDIT:


Read above, Faith.

Tar is a Spell Czech mod so you can pretty much rely on him/her/it to pcik up on you're errurs (couldn't resist)

Well, I still think that the word should be left as it is, it helps bring much-needed diversity to the language, we didn't change the word 'entrepreneur' and it survived well, so why change 'clique'?

My sentiments are quite like these. I love the English language and the oddities that have crept in. I don't like to see the language made less 'beautiful' to me.

parliament

I was just trying to point out that there are many people who pronouce this and indeed many other words incorrectly, but these posts tend to belittle them. As for the comments on my spelling errors thats just laziness on my behalf, luckily I'm not dyslexic or I may have taken offence.

Faith

It's not belittling people, it's discussing whether it's acceptable or not to pronounce it "click". Majority opinion here says no.

As far as I'm concerned, it's never okay to spell it click. There's lack of knowledge and then there's ignorance.

parliament

It was an earlier post by somebody else who used the term "sad". My post was purely to put the point across that more people than you would think mispronounce certain words, but lets not hold it against them. All are not as fortunate...

hullaballoo

I have to agree that I don't think saying that people are sad because of the way they pronounce a word is acceptable.

However, the point of the thread was to point out that there are variations in teh way words are pronounced.

As a slight aside, why is pronounciation pronounced differently from pronounce? (Don't say "because they're spelled differently", because you know what I mean.)

Phosphorus

hullaballoo wrote:

As a slight aside, why is pronounciation pronounced differently from pronounce? (Don't say "because they're spelled differently", because you know what I mean.)

Quite simply because 'pronounce' has a primary stress on the second syllable while 'pronunciation' has the primary stress on the fourth syllable and only a secondary stress on the second syllable...

hullaballoo

Actually, it would appear to be that I can't spell.

Piste

Oh God, why must people ruin the beautiful French language with their Anglisised attrocities?!

It is "kleek" and will always be "kleek".

sceptre

Faith wrote:

Where did this word go wrong? It's a french word, and accordingly, should be pronounced as the French say it. "Kleeck", not "click".

I've never pronounced it "click" and can't think of a single reason why I'd want to.

Talliesin wrote:

Nowhere near as confusing as the people who actually spell it "click".

As a moderately-related aside, i was proof-reading some stuff for UL's newspaper last night and changed "peaked" to "piqued" as I'd no idea why the particular writer in question might have wanted to say that something had peaked his interest. It's all downhill from here, folks, Fowler was optimistic.

Faith

sceptre wrote:

I've never pronounced it "click" and can't think of a single reason why I'd want to.


As a moderately-related aside, i was proof-reading some stuff for UL's newspaper last night and changed "peaked" to "piqued" as I'd no idea why the particular writer in question might have wanted to say that something had peaked his interest. It's all downhill from here, folks, Fowler was optimistic.

In a vaguely related note, does anybody pronounce "cliché" as "clish"? Because it's kind of the same thing, with the same emphasis on the "i".

r3nu4l

@ Faith...I hope and pray that nobody does although because of the obvious accent over the 'e' I doubt they do. Also I think that cliché has been in the language a lot longer than clique (could be wrong?). Begs the question, if cliché can retain correct pronunciation, why can't clique?

@ Sceptre: The confusion of 'piqued' and 'peaked' may come from something like...

'Oh my level of interest in the subject peaked and waned a long time ago'.

As opposed to...

'It piqued my interest for a moment but I quickly realised...'

Unfortunately this confusion probably stems from a lack of broad reading There's nothing like seeing the words written on the page of a book to instill the notion that the words are spelled differently and have different meanings

FlutterinBantam

I heard a guy pronouncing "niche" as "nitch" today on the radio..Declan Nerney as I now recall,Marian Finucane at 1100 RTE 1

Nearly crashed the car.........

Faith

Aye, I've heard that one before. It appears to be an Americanised version of the word because, shockingly, one of my Evolution lecturers pronouned it "nitch", and she was American.

r3nu4l

Faith wrote:

Aye, I've heard that one before. It appears to be an Americanised version of the word because, shockingly, one of my Evolution lecturers pronouned it "nitch", and she was American.

Yep, possibly American. I was at a molecular biology and proteomics conference a few years ago and a Professor of Pathology asked me how it felt to be:

"...a member of such a top mark 'nitch' grouping?"

It took me a minute to decipher what he meant (mark=marque, nitch=niche) , he probably thought 'Gee this guy is at the top of an exciting new field and he struggles with basic English!"

I've yet to hear an English or Irish person say it but at least two Americans and one Israeli I know have pronounced it this way to me.

monkey tennis

The pronunciation doesn't bother me as much as people actually spelling it click / clickey / clickish.

Talliesin

monkey tennis wrote:

The pronunciation doesn't bother me as much as people actually spelling it click / clickey / clickish.

Yeah, but that's just not knowing how to spell something. It's irritating, but it's reasonable.

If it starts becoming so common that it approaches being an alternative spelling, that would be different.

Zillah

I blame the colonies.

simu

Is this "click" monstrosity mostly said by teenagers? I've never heard it myself but it sounds appallingly ignorant. Did it come from some US TV show?

Faith

Nope, I've heard it said (and seen it written) by all ages groups. I don't know if it came from the US, I assumed it just stemmed from ignorance. Pronouncing "niche" as "nitch" is a US thing though, afaik.

r3nu4l

simu wrote:

Is this "click" monstrosity mostly said by teenagers? I've never heard it myself but it sounds appallingly ignorant. Did it come from some US TV show?

I first heard it pronounced as 'click' in 1994 when I was an undergrad in Maynooth so it's been around a while.

pickarooney

Piste wrote:

Oh God, why must people ruin the beautiful French language with their Anglisised attrocities?!

It is "kleek" and will always be "kleek".

Don't worry, they regularly get their revenge, in this case by taking our word "click" and rewriting it as "clique" to mean... "click"

Not that the average French speaker can tell the difference between a long and a short I and would therefore not be bothered in the slightest by this alleged paralinguistic crime. He'd piss himself laughing at the way you say "déjà vu", though.

Faith

youcancallme>al wrote: »

How does one go about becoming part of this after hours 'click'?

The-Rigger wrote: »

I don't find it clicky, people say what they want, if others disagree, they say so.

If someone says something deemed offensive by someone, they call them on it.

AGHHHHH!!!!

/smacks head repeatedly off wall.

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

you use the word clique instead, and nubile maidens will fall at your feet, mana will fall from heavan, and you will instantly be welcomed with a firm handshake and an alcoholic beverage of youre own delight whenever you leave the house*





*may not actually be true in any shape or form

At least someone had some sense there... I'll forever respect you for that, WWM.

Pherekydes

Faith wrote: »

At least someone had some sense there... I'll forever respect you for that, WWM.

For the 'mana', 'heavan' or 'youre'?

Clunque clique, every trippe.