Trivium - melodic thrash metal?

Ph3n0m

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=60470

I nearly choked on my lunch....he really isnt serious is he?

Doctor J

They're about as heavy as Leatherwolf or Wrathchild USA. Thrash they are not. Melodic? To a certain extent. Drastically overhyped? I should coco.

Alucard II

maybe melodic thrash is what they were aiming for, but they took a wrong turn somewhere around suckville.

neGev

Alucard II wrote:

maybe melodic thrash is what they were aiming for, but they took a wrong turn somewhere around suckville.

I giggled

Anyway, they're metalcore all the way. And metalcore is a bag of geeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Motley Crue

Ph3n0m wrote:

I nearly choked on my lunch....he really isnt serious is he?

I nearly did the same, im starting to hate this band, lets just have Roadrunner save their credibility...and fast by re-signing Chimaira (biggest mistake to drop them ever) and release the new Killswitch Engage album. I never taught Roadrunner Records were about commercialism, then I saw they'd signed the New York Dolls!

I like the Dolls, but thats a different argument:rolleyes:

Undergod

They like to think they're thrash, but they're deluding themselves. Definitely metalcore, imo.
I haven't really heard enough to judge them though, I didn't listen to much to Ascendancy and that's all I've heard.

Alucard II

to tie (what WERE) the previous 2 posts together (before Undergod snuck in a post while i was writing :P ), i've heard news involving Killswitch, January, and a gig. also, Killswitch are metalcore, and *points to neGevs post*

but yes, Trivium are metalcore. definitely thrash influenced, but you'll find that with a lot of metalcore.

Devious

Shockingly, I found myself humming Entrance of the Conflagration today. To be fair, theres one or two half-decent tracks on the new album. One or two.

Den_M

Why listen to trivium when you could listen to Kreator instead?

neGev

Wise words indeed.

[offtopic]Roadrunner have become pretty commercial in the grand scheme of things.[/pfftopic]

Doctor J

neGev wrote:

[offtopic]Roadrunner have become pretty commercial in the grand scheme of things.[/pfftopic]

Yeah, about 12 years ago when they dropped all their good bands

I don't understand a lot of these new terminologies, Metalcore? What the hell is that supposed to be? I've heard Lamb Of God described as metalcore. Now, to my ears, Lamb Of God and Trivium don't sound remotely like each other. Explain.

Black NG-60-90

Erm metalcore is a fusion of thrash metal and hardcore which does not apply to Trivium because they do not have the hardcore element. Nuclear Assault, COC and Unearth are examples of true metalcore.

Doctor J

Well, you see the thing is, back when I saw Nuclear Assault in 1988, they were the epitome of thrash in the hayday of said genre. Since the end of the 80's COC haven't been thrash nor hardcore. As I recall, thrash as I understood it in the 80's was a delightful blend, the rawness and energy of hardcore punk mixed with heavy metal (Maiden, Priest, Accept, Sabbath, etc). You see, thrash already is a mix of hardcore, if we stick to the definition of thrash when it actually existed. Sounds like metalcore is just a new buzzword (I'm looking in your ****ty direction, Kerrang magazine ) for a less innovative of something that already exists, namely thrash and Trivium are not this, not even close, not only do they not have a hardcore element, they don't have a thrash element either

I don't understand how the categorisation of a band can change retrospectively to some buzz word created 20 years after bands were what they were and are. Nuclear Assault always were and always will a classic thrash band.

Death to pointless categorisations!!!

Ph3n0m

Doctor J wrote:

Death to pointless categorisations!!!

So you are telling me you can live in a world without the following:

Viking Troll Metal
Mallcore
Metalcore
Pagan Metal
Avant garde metal
Bay Area thrash metal
Black metal
Blackened death metal
Blackened thrash metal
Classic metal
Crossover thrash
Dark metal
Death metal
Deathcore
Deathgrind
Deathrash
Doom metal
Epic metal
Extreme metal
Folk metal
Funk metal
Glam metal
Gothic metal
Grindcore
Groove metal
Hipster metal
Industrial metal
Melodic black metal
Melodic death metal
Metalcore
Neo-classical metal
New Wave of British Heavy Metal
Post-metal
Power metal
Rapcore
Scandinavian death metal
Sludge metal
Speed metal
Stoner rock
Swedecore
Symphonic metal
Technical death metal
Thrash metal
Viking metal
Vomit metal

Doctor J

What in blue blazes is mallcore?

Edit -? Oh, and to answer your question, yes, I have successfully lived in a world without all but three or four of those pointless terms for a long time now, almost as long as you

Ph3n0m

Doctor J wrote:

What in blue blazes is mallcore?

probably some kind of metalcore-emo-blues-stoner side project that happened at the Mall - hence mallcore was born. Imagine it kids screaming whilst out shopping, hell I know some 5 years olds that will do that for free - and we dont have to get them tattooed

Doctor J

Cool. I will raise the metal fist of solidarity to the next 5 year old I see throwing a tantrum in Dunnes! Rock on, young brother of core!

Black NG-60-90

Dude wtf? You forgot Ragga-metal and Bog metal. Thats disgraceful, get out of here son!

Doctor J

Ph3n0m wrote:

Viking Troll Metal

Brilliant! I'm guessing this is something to do with Finntroll (really guessing)? So every band gets their own genre these days? Cool. I am soooooo out of touch

Ph3n0m

Doctor J wrote:

Brilliant! I'm guessing this is something to do with Finntroll (really guessing)? So every band gets their own genre these days? Cool. I am soooooo out of touch

well done - I personally coined that phrase when I first heard Fintroll and their polka music

Doctor J

Are Finns technically Vikings though?

Doctor J

Actually, are they even Finnish?

Black NG-60-90

Vikings were from Scandi so yeah i guess Finland. Haha this thread was meant to be about Trivium, we've gone way way waaay off topic

Ph3n0m

Black NG-60-90 wrote:

Vikings were from Scandi so yeah i guess Finland. Haha this thread was meant to be about Trivium, we've gone way way waaay off topic

thus showing how much some of us (namely me) hold Trivium in such "high" regard :rolleyes:

20 years from now.....Trivium who?

neGev

Actually, I'm amazed we haven't had any fanboys runnning in here screaming
"OMGZ YOU GEYZ TRIVIUM AND RDRUNNER R ASWEOME SO STFU LOLZ!!!111211112OEN"
I thought it was surely only a question of time

gizmo

Think I touched on the whole "metalcore means jack ****" in the other Trivium post. But once again, Bullet For My Valentine are classed as metalcore, as are Trivium, Unearth, Lamb Of God and As I Lay Dying. Now...are any of those bands remotely similar? Not particularly tbh, hence the term metalcore, imo anyway, is now either too broad to contain the bands people think it encompasses or has totally its meaning like that "other" genre people love to have a go at.

Ph3n0m

gizmo wrote:

Think I touched on the whole "metalcore means jack ****" in the other Trivium post. But once again, Bullet For My Valentine are classed as metalcore, as are Trivium, Unearth, Lamb Of God and As I Lay Dying. Now...are any of those bands remotely similar? Not particularly tbh, hence the term metalcore, imo anyway, is now either too broad to contain the bands people think it encompasses or has totally its meaning like that "other" genre people love to have a go at.

yeah well that doesnt excuse the fact that bands like Trivium and Bullet For My Valentine are ****e - no matter what tag they are labeled

TerrorFirmer

I think they have one or two relatively decent songs. For the most part though while I wouldn't call them ****e I wouldn't be overly bothered with them either.

brianthebard

Black NG-60-90 wrote:

Erm metalcore is a fusion of thrash metal and hardcore which does not apply to Trivium because they do not have the hardcore element. Nuclear Assault, COC and Unearth are examples of true metalcore.

No it's not, when -core is used in a genre name it is supposed to mean that the band in question is going back to the core elements, in this case the core elements of metal, which means solos, good riffs, etc.

The problem with genre names is that they are overused and have lost meaning. Just a small case in point would be thrash and hardcore. I've heard trash described (by slayer) as metal heaviness with the speed and aggression of punk. I've heard hardcore described as punk style and agression with the musicianship and riffage of metal.
Both make sense, but are very different things.

Black NG-60-90

brianthebard wrote:

No it's not, when -core is used in a genre name it is supposed to mean that the band in question is going back to the core elements, in this case the core elements of metal, which means solos, good riffs, etc.

Eh no, then they would basically be a METAL band.

Motley Crue

Doctor J wrote:

Explain.

Metalcore is a musical genre consisting of a mix between heavy metal and hardcore punk. Although the genre has risen in popularity since the turn of the millennium, it is not a new genre, as many would believe, since bands such as Integrity have been around since the late 1980s.

Defining the metalcore sound is not an easy task, as various bands have fused a hardcore-influenced sound and attitude with many different types of metal. The earliest signs of this before being labeled metalcore was 'crossover thrash'. The band that declared the crossover was Dirty Rotten Imbeciles on their late 1980s album of the same name. Other bands, like Nuclear Assault, are bleeding edge pioneers themselves.

It should be noted that metalcore and crossover are generally considered separate identities, with "crossover" referring to a mix of thrash metal and hardcore punk, and metalcore being a slower, heavier, hardcore-rooted style influenced by thrash metal and death metal.

Motley Crue

Ph3n0m wrote:

20 years from now.....Trivium who?

Actually, thats all funny, because the band members chose the name Trivium, which is Latin for the intersection between the three schools of learning: grammar, rhetoric and logic, because they liked the way it implied an open-mindedness to different styles, and summed up their musical aesthetic.

So I guess their next album can be a country effort and we cant do a bloody thing about it, except not buy it of course, and their "integrity" will not be personally attacked...clever how they did that there

Ph3n0m

Motley Crue wrote:

Actually, thats all funny, because the band members chose the name Trivium, which is Latin for the intersection between the three schools of learning: grammar, rhetoric and logic, because they liked the way it implied an open-mindedness to different styles, and summed up their musical aesthetic.

So I guess their next album can be a country effort and we cant do a bloody thing about it, except not buy it of course, and their "integrity" will not be personally attacked...clever how they did that there

eh? their integrity? latin? rhetoric? wtf?

they classed themselves as thrash - not very open minded when they completely disagree with the "insert label of the month" that they are tagged with


so doesnt that make them hypocrites?

Doctor J

You see, the thing is, back in the 80's thrash was the mixing between metal and punk. D.R.I. naming one album Crossover and another Thrash Zone does not a genre make. Crossover came out in 87, Thrash Zone in 89 and the term thrash was used long before this, crossover too. As I recall, Crossover was hinting at their crossover from punk to metal, not coining another category. One could argue that the first Suicidal Tendencies album, released in 1983, was between punk and metal, but more on the punk side too. The likes of Bad Brains, Crumbsuckers, Biohazard etc straddled this line too. There was no crossover thrash term back when there was thrash and crossovers taking place, there was just thrash and punk. It just seems to be another meaningless sub-categorisation applied retrospectively, which makes no sense because all the bands mentioned so far in these categorisations sound nothing like each other. I remember the days when people just used to listen to music, rather than worry what section HMV would put it in

So metalcore is a mixture of hardcore and thrash, whereas crossover is a mixture of thrash and hardcore?

Doctor J

These are fantastically funny. If I didn't know better, I'd say it was a few lads having a laugh seeing how many terms they could come up with and how many of the same bands they could cross-reference to basically say the same thing - metal mixed with punk

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrash_metal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalcore
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossover_thrash

Ph3n0m

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshcore


I nearly wept and so did baby jesus

Moshcore, also known tough guy hardcore, old school metalcore, beatdown hardcore, and heavy hardcore, is a style of metalcore.

Doctor J

Ph3n0m wrote:

Moshcore, also known tough guy hardcore, old school metalcore, beatdown hardcore, and heavy hardcore, is a style of metalcore.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

If I wasn't such an attention seeker, that would be my new sig. Oh man, my sides hurt

Ph3n0m

Doctor J wrote:

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

If I wasn't such an attention seeker, that would be my new sig. Oh man, my sides hurt

its now my signature

Doctor J

Oh man get this... CRUST PUNK!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crust_punk


Ah hah hah hah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hah hah hah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hah hah hah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hah hah hah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hah hah hah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hah hah hah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hah hah hah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hah hah hah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hah hah hah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hah hah hah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hah hah hah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Doctor J

Oh wait a minute, my bad. D.R.I. weren't punk, hardcore, thrash, crossover thrash or metalcore, they apparently were dun dun duuuunnnnn... Thrashcore ha ha ha

Ph3n0m

Moshcore is considered as the simplest expression of metalcore, with songs averaging around one or two minutes in length and written in a tradition closer to 1980s hardcore with traditional elements such as mosh breakdowns and singalongs,

breakdowns and singalongs???? WTF?

oh wait...bwhahahahahahahahahahaha!

Doctor J

Yeah, you all croon a nice ditty in the hard shoulder while you wait for the AA to fix the oul Corolla

Ph3n0m

and because of all that we get

Mathcore (also known as tech. metal, tech. hardcore, and math metal) is a style of metalcore recognized for a high level of technical musicianship. The subgenre has its roots in bands like Deadguy, Converge, Kiss It Goodbye, Training for Utopia, Botch, Turmoil, Coalesce, Bloodlet, Groundwork, Resurrection, Acme, Nerv, and Starkweather.


and


Swedecore (also known as Gothencore and melodic deathcore) is a nickname for the most common style of metalcore music today, combining the melodies and guitar harmonies of melodic death metal bands such as In Flames and At the Gates with the aggressiveness and breakdowns of late 1980s American metalcore.

Doctor J

I'm going to start hardmathcore, a band of crazy mathematicians who do long division without calculators

neGev

Sssssssshh, don't let Roadrunner hear you or they'll be all over hardmathcore as the new trend. Then all those Central Bank kids will dump their HIM and Slipknot hoodies for Bleeding Calculator and Slit My Arithmatic. Apocalypse is nigh!

gizmo

Power Violence tbh!

As for Trivium, meh as much as I dislike some of the stuff on Ascendency, the horrible woo hoos of Anthem and Heafy's new found arrogance/ignorance I really couldn't say they were ****e.

For one the little bastard can play me under the table.

finbarr

How about "Applied-mathcore" or "Algebra-core"....
This labelling thing is the stupidest crock of ****e. Can't something just be good or bad. ...and to the person claiming that COC and Nuclear Assault were "True metalcore"???? What are ya ****ing like??? They are metal bands. Pure.And.Simple.

Black NG-60-90

Ok i'm confused now.... i think i need to lie down.

Motley Crue

Doctor J wrote:

Oh wait a minute, my bad. D.R.I. weren't punk, hardcore, thrash, crossover thrash or metalcore, they apparently were dun dun duuuunnnnn... Thrashcore ha ha ha

You should try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_hardcore cause ya gotta remember to praise God while singing your guts out! Hail Jesus, mother****er! lol

John

Black NG-60-90 wrote:

Vikings were from Scandi so yeah i guess Finland. Haha this thread was meant to be about Trivium, we've gone way way waaay off topic

Finland isn't in Scandinavia. There was a Finnish girl in my class and she took offense to me calling her a Scandinavian.

As for genres, I demand stringent scientific tests to determine the heritage of all bands. I want DNA and mitochondrial DNA tests to see how they've changed over time and we can then we can start compiling a complete taxonomy of musical genres. We can publish in esteemed journals and, being the most qualified here, Doctor J can lead the research.

Black NG-60-90

John wrote:

Finland isn't in Scandinavia. There was a Finnish girl in my class and she took offense to me calling her a Scandinavian.

It is, if you know your geography.