EA Are Watching You..... No Really!

R0ot

Vendetta wrote:

So. In the latest CGW podcast, they received retail boxed copies of BF 2142.

When you open the box, a big slip of paper falls out first, preceeding
any discs or manuals. The slip of paper says, essentially, that 2142
includes monitoring software which runs while your computer is online,
and records "anonymous" information like your IP address, surfing
habits (probably via cookie scans), and other "computing habits" in
order to report this information back to ad companies and ad servers,
which generates in-game ads.

Now, I can live with certain in-game ads (though apparently there will
be Dodge truck and Neon ads in the bleak, futuristic world of 2142),
but including a lengthy description - outside of even the Eula - seems
to indicate even EA knows that this is some shady borderline spyware
****. I don't support it and won't be buying 2142 (for a host of other
reasons, too).

taken from NRG forums, http://clannrg.com/index/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=277

Oh yes and from smokey the lovely image,

KdjaCL

When computer is online or when game is running?

Just block it from net access if its either.


kdjac

projectmayhem

it's spyware to see what you like to generated targeted ads (pr0n in no time, so). do you seriously think you've got no spyware? at least they're telling you about it!

KdjaCL

projectmayhem wrote:

it's spyware to see what you like to generated targeted ads (pr0n in no time, so). do you seriously think you've got no spyware? at least they're telling you about it!

I have none


kdjac

projectmayhem

KdjaCL wrote:

I have none


kdjac

you do. it's just yet to be detected...

Silverfish

projectmayhem wrote:

it's spyware to see what you like to generated targeted ads (pr0n in no time, so). do you seriously think you've got no spyware? at least they're telling you about it!

It actually just tracks what ads you look at in game, and where you are based ( Europe, The states, wherever) not your browser history.

KdjaCL

Silverfish wrote:

It actually just tracks what ads you look at in game, and where you are based ( Europe, The states, wherever) not your browser history.

Ads you look at in game so it only runs when the game is running? Who the fook looks at ads in games? IN NFS they whizz by i dont stop reverse and have a look.

In 2142 i cant see my self stopping to look at an in game ad, and all ads in game are force fed to you so cant see how that would work.

No spyware on my pcs tho.



kdjac

Silverfish

KdjaCL wrote:

Ads you look at in game so it only runs when the game is running? Who the fook looks at ads in games? IN NFS they whizz by i dont stop reverse and have a look.


kdjac

Well, if no-one looks at them, why all the fuss about 2142 having them?

KdjaCL

Silverfish wrote:

Well, if no-one looks at them, why all the fuss about 2142 having them?

The above EULA?

Its fairly unclear if it runs in or out of game, how can it track what you see as ads are sent from a masterserver so its going to track what they make you look at? That makes no sense whatsover its like saying 200,000 played it this month and 200,000 saw the nike ad we put in


kdjac

projectmayhem

Silverfish wrote:

It actually just tracks what ads you look at in game, and where you are based ( Europe, The states, wherever) not your browser history.

ah, my apologies then.

that's fairly useless tbh... it means advertisers will be forced to make big, bright ads in the bleak futuristic dystopia to make us look over, because they're going to judge success by the number of people who look (not sure what counts as "looking" though... do you have to stop, or shoot at the ad?)

Ponster

Did we really need another thread for an issue that doesn't really exist?

It's in-game only, not scanning of cookies or hard drive or browser history.

All it records is what ads you look at and how long you look at them. For example if it had been put in place in BF2 then companies would have to pay more to get their ad in Karkand and much, much less for Operation Cleansweep.

That post on the NRG forums is just scaremongering.

Silverfish

It records your IP address, and other anonymous data in addition to this.

It then temporarily uses this to show in game advertisements which are uploaded temporarily to your pc.

It does not collect any personally identifiable information about you. Therefore, it does not access your browser history, personal files, etc.

All they know is your IP address - which they knew already. However they do have to warn you that they are passing this on to the IGA. If you do not want this passed onto the IGA, then they recommend you do not play online.

However, best to wear your tinfoil hat while playing.

However, since most of you have made it clear you aren't buying the game, I fail to see what the fuss is about.

PrivateSmokey

Ponster wrote:

That post on the NRG forums is just scaremongering.

Ya think so Look at the EA forums

Here
http://forums.easports.com/mboards/thread.jspa?sls=2&tstart=0&threadID=132706

And here
http://forums.easports.com/mboards/thread.jspa?sls=2&tstart=0&threadID=132586

and for the crack look here
http://forums.easports.com/mboards/thread.jspa?sls=2&tstart=0&threadID=132655

O and the EA Forums server is having problem loading due to the high level of complaints... or post i mean:D

There alot of people there scaremongering ponster.

Silverfish

Don't underestimate the power of the

Ponster

That proves thatthe world is full of people that have nothing better to do than copy and paste the same image and the same rumours over and over again.

Everything in roots original post is wrong besides the fact that the IP address, which is already known, is recorded. That's what I call 'scaremongering'

The EA forums aren't working because the EA UK BF2142 forums were shut down today so the yanks have to deal with a LOT more traffic than usual.

PrivateSmokey

OK

Ponster wrote:

That proves thatthe world is full of people that have nothing better to do than copy and paste the same image and the same rumours over and over again.

Thats alot of people who want to complan, they have bought or downloaded the game.And the Image isnt on EA forums

Ponster wrote:

Everything in roots original post is wrong besides the fact that the IP address, which is already known, is recorded.

Remains to be see.How can they know what you want to see in advertisments if they dont track your IP address, It clearly states your IP AND other annonymus information.like wtf and uploads advertismsnts to your PC.

Ponster wrote:

The EA forums aren't working because the EA UK BF2142 forums were shut down today so the yanks have to deal with a LOT more traffic than usual.

So More probs then:D

Anywho no more from me on 2142 its already a pain

kyp_durron

How exactly does it know you're looking at an add, I mean how close do you have to be, do you have to look at it directly, how long ect ect ect? Like you could be running along and it could be in your vision, but you're not exactly looking at it, cause well the other team have guns and they want to shoot you, so you need to watching out for them. They're trying to kill you ffs, and you stand there looking at ad's?? pfffft.

Berns

think is sumfint to monitor how far look at it from, for how long & even which angle. Wonder if they'll make em destroyable, see how the companies like that c4 etc on their ads

Ponster

Quotes from DiCE dating from last week :

"The information that is gathered is specifically related to the ingame ads themselves and not anything personally related to you."

"There is no additional spy ware software installed secretly to your machine."

"Data will only be gathered from in game. Web browsing and other profiling data is not being gathered."

"The purpose of the gathering is to determine if an ad is viewed by players."

"As I have mentioned before (in other threads/interviews) there will be no adverse affects on players from the advertising aspect. It will not impact gameplay at all. You most definitely will not receive any emails or other forms of solicitation due to this."

I posted a link in the other thread showing how this works based on SWAT 4 where this is already in place.

http://nationalcheeseemporium.org/

The client contacted madserver to tell the advertisers how long the gamer spent with each advert in their view. This is mapped to the gamer id, so they know which player in the game saw the advert, and when, for how long, and from how far away (by virtue of the size attribute). Even the average viewing angle is passed back.

Dreamcrusher

wether it scans your cookies or not, its still taking the piss. In ANY game, 2142, or even swat 4, the fact that game companies are littering 'futuristic battlefields' with ad's and tracking how long you look at them for, and uploading new ones to you is taking the piss. Sorry, if i want to have advertising rammed down my neck ill go watch TV for an hour. Imagine BFV with a nice shiny 'DRINK PEPSI G.I.!' or 1942 with 'nike! when you really need to haul your ass off dog green sector, nothing gets you up that beach faster than air max!'. Its a joke, and a bad one at that.

Ciaran500

EA forums wrote:

I found this little jewel and had to share it with the board, this is an interview done today with
IGA Worldwide CEO Justin Townsend, I must say after reading it, i have more questions that answers.
what strikes me right off the bat is the following:

"IGA's In-Game Ad Capture Specifics

Specifically, IGA's software uses the IP address for geotargeting of in-game ads (so that European ads are not shown to those in the U.S., for example). It also creates a unique user number that's generated locally, and is able to re-identify the gamer when he next appears online.

In addition, IGA's in- game ad solution does capture the time of day that the user started to play each gaming session - Townsend mentioned, as an example, that "if the brief says 'Males 18 to 34'", the ads may only be served between 6pm and 9pm on a weekday evening or similar, to replicate 'primetime' viewing."

and then following that is this:

"Anonymity, The Need For Ads

IGA's Townsend went on to explain exactly why identifying specific consumers is not part of his company's goal, explaining: "In the advertising sector, generally you have two very distinct forms of advertising - above the line and below the line."

The company's advertising is 'above the line', which is to say that it's communicating the brand image, much like TV, and it's not 'below the line' advertising like the Internet & direct mail which seeks to get into a dialogue or a transaction with the consumer. Thus, Townsend explained that there's no need to know who exactly customers are. He clarified: "For us, all we need to do is to make sure we are serving the right ads to the right IP."

So the company will be building a database of players that are tracked each time they go online and suitable ads sent to them. Wonder will they sell the information or will EA be keeping it for later games.

Scruff

I'm with Dreamcrusher.

All these ads make EA more money but they wont drop the price of the game or charge less for\give free the addons: Moonforces*, Super Special Futureistic Forces*, etc etc
Its just more money in EA's pocket for shoddy software.

*makeyuppy names, i hope.

Anywho, wont effect me as i dont plan on buying it.

Actually is this spyware in the demo?

Silverfish

Scruff wrote:

I'm with Dreamcrusher.

All these ads make EA more money but they wont drop the price of the game or charge less for\give free the addons: Moonforces*, Super Special Futureistic Forces*, etc etc
Its just more money in EA's pocket for shoddy software.

*makeyuppy names, i hope.

Anywho, wont effect me as i dont plan on buying it.

Actually is this spyware in the demo?

Maybe the game would be 70 quid without the advertising?

And, there is no spyware, as Ponster stated in this very thread.

kyp_durron

Silverfish wrote:

Maybe the game would be 70 quid without the advertising?

And, there is no spyware, as Ponster stated in this very thread.

Hmm why would it be 70 quid? It is running the same engine as bf2 surely this would cut costs, therefore it should, if anything cost less then average.

Look I have a feeling of indifference towards this game based on my experience with the demo, I probably will buy the game, but I'm not wetting myself at the prospect. It's ok, but nothing special. (Don't worry I won't be moaning about the cost either).

It just seem's to me like you could be working for EA the way you talk at times and if not you should be.

Silverfish

kyp_durron wrote:

Hmm why would it be 70 quid? It is running the same engine as bf2 surely this would cut costs, therefore it should, if anything cost less then average.


It just seem's to me like you could be working for EA the way you talk at times and if not you should be.

I'm just giving it as an example.

No, I don't work for EA or anyone remotely similar, but I do appreciate that all they do is make games.

Whether games are good or bad just comes down to opinion. Like the way people like different music?

So, I personally like the BF series, all of them, especially BF2, and I think I will like 2142, so just because I refuse to jump on the bandwagon and make stuff up to criticize EA does not mean I am an employee or anything similar, it means I have my own opinion.

kyp_durron

Silverfish wrote:

I'm just giving it as an example.

No, I don't work for EA or anyone remotely similar, but I do appreciate that all they do is make games.

Whether games are good or bad just comes down to opinion. Like the way people like different music?

So, I personally like the BF series, all of them, especially BF2, and I think I will like 2142, so just because I refuse to jump on the bandwagon and make stuff up to criticize EA does not mean I am an employee or anything similar, it means I have my own opinion.

Yes, It's all down to opinion, and I respect everyone's right to theirs.

I can also see you point about bandwagon jumping. But I feel like EA are taking the piss somewhat by using ads in a game that we have already payed for.

I didn't mean to come across as bitchy as I did in that last post, so I'm sorry for that. It's just you do seem very pro EA,but as you said it's all about opinion.

Evd-Burner

This is aload of me belox, no way am i buying the game now...

Was only thinking about buying it in the first place but this totally puts me off...

Like seriesly what the hell...

Ponster

The prob Evd is that it's a growing trend and taking a stand against something you don't agree with is pretty cool but there's always a chance that in a few years, a lot of games will be using the same ideas. Football Manager 2008 with pitch-side ads that update midgame and such.
It may not Need for Speed Carbon will also have the same system (how you can drive and look at ads though is beyond me). Codemasters and Atari are also going to use dynamic ads in their games.

It may not be a lost battle as such for those that disagree but it'll be a battle all the same.

JFI : The ads were in the beta and I didn't notice them all that much personally. Here's the locations in the demo of the ads. They seem to be located at the flag cap points.

http://www.ggl.com/news.php?NewsId=4040

PixelTrawler

Not only is there the tracking/adware
Theres this too - europeans will have to pay $18 more to get spyed on
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35168

magick

wow ok i dont care, Michael O Leary has got to be running EA , not only has he got ppl playing for spyware 2142 but theirs ppl on forums actually defending it ! mega collaborator lol

fightin irish

An interesting little article to throw in the pot. Posted on our forums tonight.

http://hgamer.blogspot.com/2006/10/another-reason-to-say-no-to-battlefield.html

magick

jjjjjjjjjjjjjaysus as if it couldnt get any worse !!!(spyware1)!

Ponster

fightin irish wrote:

An interesting little article to throw in the pot. Posted on our forums tonight.

http://hgamer.blogspot.com/2006/10/another-reason-to-say-no-to-battlefield.html

Interesting true but looking at the comments and other blogs it seems that it's a Microsoft problem and not one that EA could do much about really. EA release software, MS release a patch that breaks it.

It seems to be MS that are bringing out the fixes for the programs broken by their latest patch so we'll have to wait for them to get around to it....

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/924867/

Mantel

kyp_durron wrote:

Hmm why would it be 70 quid? It is running the same engine as bf2 surely this would cut costs, therefore it should, if anything cost less then average.

hahhahahahahah, this is EA we're talking about. You could also say that the in game ads will cut costs, hell a few years ago publishers would have been saying the same thing. Just don't be surprised that a patch has already been released for the game and it hasn't even gotten out the door.

Ponster

Mantel wrote:

Just don't be surprised that a patch has already been released for the game and it hasn't even gotten out the door.

Damned if they release it, damned if they don't

I wouldn't say it was a common event and haven't bothered to look up examples but releasing a patch on release isn't all that strange actually. When I worked for Sierra Games some of the most intensive work went on *after* the release of the game when all the feedback was coming in from the gameplayers. It doesn't surprise me that the coders got to work on the first patch as soon as the demo was released. Nothing to do with EA and how good/bad they're able to make games but everything to do with normal software practise.

DonkeyStyle \o/

COOL!
I wonder if it has Starforce aswell?!

Just downloaded the demo of this... not sure if I'll bother installing it now.
Don't really want to support gaming as an advertising platform personally.

jonski

Ponster wrote:

I wouldn't say it was a common event and haven't bothered to look up examples but releasing a patch on release isn't all that strange actually.

First thing I do when I buy and install any game , is look for the patch 1.01 . I don't know if they had to patch something that was a glaring mistake or just something that showed up when loads of ppl started playing the demo online , if it was the latter then it is to be expected really .

As for 2142 being on the same engine as BF2 , then I believe that really isn't the case , once BF2 was starting to get off the ground the 2142 team broke away and redid the engine for their game . I would say it is the equivalent of using the Unreal engine to make you own game ( insert name here someone that knows of a game that uses the unreal engine )

As for the advertising , I still haven't gotten my head around if this uses bandwidth or not . If it does , then we pay for our own bandwidth and no matter how small the transfer , it should be ours to do with as we please . If not , then I would also feel that if new advertising is being put into games then the retail price should reflect this .

KoKane

Its a genius money maker on their part. Whoever thought of this system would have got a huge fat promotion.


Instead of offering deals to advertisers while making the game and having those ads there permanantly and the same ones all the time when you play, they now have a system where the ads can be changed at intervals, which means lots of money for EA.
Someone wants to advertise their latest Gfx card, what do you do?
Forums, magazines etc etc oh and billboards that are in the games.
Then they look at what ads get viewed the most to find if it was succesful from that point of view.


Genius.

magick

Genius

perhaps but i dont want to know while fighting for my life what time fair city is on at on RTE or that tescos are doing the "buy 2 pizzas get a 3rd free" offer , what next u pass an intel sign and hear that annoying little jingle or find ur tank is out of fuel but can go back to battle with "the power of Shell!"

DonkeyStyle \o/

They should monitor the players framerate aswell... and suggest hardware upgrades and where you can buy them.
And if the players shot accuracy is below a certain threshold, they can be offered a great deal on a new gaming mouse.
Ooh, and ads for SpecSavers could be shown if the player often shoots his own teammates.

Give them an inch, they'll take a mile... we had EA pimping Cellular in NFSU2.... now interactive 3D targeted advertisements here we come! and we'll get to pay €55 for it! ... well, I won't because I'm finished with EA if this is the direction they're taking.

magick

it occurs to me that the EA is actually using the Battlefield series as an experiment to find out how much bullsh*t a customer base will take before they finally learn. It's like a kid that keeps grabbing a hot cup, saying 'ow', then grabbing it again.

Ponster

But my points is that in another couple of years, the people that are against ads will have to go back to playing boardgames if you want to avoid them.

I played the beta and demo. The ads were there but I didn't realise it until I read it in the forums and then went back to verify. When you're playing BF2/2142 you really don't get all that much time to look around and stare at the scenery

oRlyYaRly

I like in game ads for real things.

magick

But my points is that in another couple of years, the people that are against ads will have to go back to playing boardgames if you want to avoid them.

emmm no , cos in a free market society ppl can either install a game with spyware or now ,its their choise .

I for one wont be installing it

however if ppl buy enough of the game then EA will push the idea though and probably go a mile more in the future.

However in a free market, then if enough ppl are pissed off with the idea of crappy buggy games/spyware then ppl wont buy it, and the company will be forced to go with what the market dictates , i for one hope enough ppl will take a stand against spyware in games.

If u had choise during the installation "do u wish to install the spyware in 2142? yes/no"
I think we know what option u would choose , ironic isnt it most software u have to pay to remove the spyware in 2142 u pay to have it installed!11(spyware1)

Winters

oRlyYaRly wrote:

I like in game ads for real things.

Crazy2262

I for one was looking forward to the new Battlefield when I frist heard about it, but now I won't be installing Spyfield 2142 and I didn't think much of the demo when I played it, its BF2 with a new mod and now with spyware.

I sure as heck don't wanna spend €50 or whatever the price just to have spyware installed on my PC. If I wanted spyware on my pc I'd look at porn sites. at least there the spyware is free, lol.

Zillah

I really wouldn't be bothered if EA were passing some of those gigantic shedloads of cash they'll be getting for this on to us. But they're not, the game costs the exact same amount as it would have otherwise.

Thats why a lot of TV channels are free, you pay for them with your ad viewing time, so essentially we're paying for the game twice and then some.

KdjaCL

Anyone know what a million guaranteed games playing viewers is worth in ad revenue?

The revolution has started a "version" has been released that can be played online that does not contain IGA stuff.


kdjac