Transport 21 - if elected will the opposition implement it?

Propellerhead

At the risk of stating the obvious, did you directly ask Fine Gael, Labour, the Greens or Sinn Fein the question? It's not like the candidates or the parties themselves are hard to contact. I'm not sure that scoring points on a bulletin board is the way to get the answer you need. At most you'll get activists from the above parties rather than those who determine policy posting here and elsewhere.

Navan Junction

Propellerhead wrote:

At the risk of stating the obvious, did you directly ask Fine Gael, Labour, the Greens or Sinn Fein the question? It's not like the candidates or the parties themselves are hard to contact. I'm not sure that scoring points on a bulletin board is the way to get the answer you need. At most you'll get activists from the above parties rather than those who determine policy posting here and elsewhere.

You can bet your bottom dollar we have. And they response has been quite frankly completely inadaquate.

We want their support. We want their contribution. We want to know that if they win the elction that they will not scrap the current meagre offering but better it.

But they have literally remained silent on the issue - the most we have managed to elicite are a few grunts about the other parties not delivering and giving out about the traffic.

The point of this thread is to get any of the party activists that read it to get on to their party and get some action. This is only a start.

So far we have recieved contact from one party on the back of this effort to say that they are finalising a proposal, which when completed will be made available to us.

Direct contact isn't working so we have been forced to push their inadaquate responses publicly.

Do you suggest that after all of our efforts that we let the election pass without trying to get undertakings form the parties that may form the next government?

Propellerhead

Absolutely not. The danger is that the government parties will use your comments to score points against opposition parties instead of actually doing anything, and the opposition parties in turn won't want to hand policy initiatives to the government.

I am glad that this is bearing some fruit.

Navan Junction

Propellerhead wrote:

Absolutely not. The danger is that the government parties will use your comments to score points against opposition parties instead of actually doing anything, and the opposition parties in turn won't want to hand policy initiatives to the government.

I am glad that this is bearing some fruit.

PH, if you knew what had been going on up here on the ground, you would be really annoyed too..

You have no idea how much effort has been put into trying to mobilise the opposition parties and their support to build up a head of steam on the issue.

This may sound frightening but their response has been even worse then that of the government parties.

We have repeatedy asked them to do something, anything to move the railway along.

We have been repeatedly told that they were about to do something. And they have repeatedly done nothing.

Our fear is that they will then come out before the election making noises without substance. We simply want to ascertain what the propose and then move on from that..

Don't just take my word for this. You mention Platform 11. Ask MarkoP11 and DerekP11 how useful the opposition was at the Meath on Track meeting last December, and compare that to what they have done since.

Metrobest

I love Navan Jctn's description of the opposition as the incoherent drunk mumbling in the corner.

I think Kenny, Sargeant and Rabitte are more like three winos: slumped on a bench by the canal shouting insults at the government while the rest of us get on with our lives. That's why it's called the slump co-alition.

The government is going to win the next election - I'm going to put money on it. The opposition has zero credibility - as Michael McDowell put it last week, Enda Kenny and Pat Rabitte have been in the Dail for a combined 50 years and who can think of even one memorable achievement associated with one of them. I certainly can't.

If the Irish people really want things to change for the better, they would do well to vote for the PDs. McDowell is a good man and he'd be a fantastic Taoiseach.

Navan Junction

Metrobest wrote:

McDowell is a good man and he'd be a fantastic Taoiseach.

Oh, Jaysus - what have I started?!:)

road_high

Metrobest wrote:

I love Navan Jctn's description of the opposition as the incoherent drunk mumbling in the corner.

I think Kenny, Sargeant and Rabitte are more like three winos: slumped on a bench by the canal shouting insults at the government while the rest of us get on with our lives. That's why it's called the slump co-alition.

The government is going to win the next election - I'm going to put money on it. The opposition has zero credibility - as Michael McDowell put it last week, Enda Kenny and Pat Rabitte have been in the Dail for a combined 50 years and who can think of even one memorable achievement associated with one of them. I certainly can't.

If the Irish people really want things to change for the better, they would do well to vote for the PDs. McDowell is a good man and he'd be a fantastic Taoiseach.

McDowell as Taoiseach:rolleyes: - I presume this a pisstake or something right? Just look at how his party did in 2004 in the local elections; they won 19 seats I think, so thats purely fantasy stuff. You might think PD are wonderful but I certainly don't. And it appears from previous elections the voting public seem to think the same.
As this is the Transport forum lets focus now what exactly the FF/PD coalition has (not) delivered on transport in their 10 years. Lets see now we have;
-Two LUAS lines unconnected in Dublin
-No rail or metro connection to Dublin airport
- Dublin Airport and the third world facilities. In 2006 that place is hard to credit
-The introduction of PPPs (a PD idea if ever there was one); charge the already hugely overtaxed and overburdened for badly needed new roads which our tax should/would have payed for several times over.
-The M50, say no more:rolleyes:
-NDP 1999 mostly undelivered yet, now rehashed as Transport 21.
-The Kildare rail uograde; has this even started, I've been hearing about this for years and amazingly enough nthing seems to built yet.

gobdaw

Metrobest wrote:

If the Irish people really want things to change for the better, they would do well to vote for the PDs. McDowell is a good man and he'd be a fantastic Taoiseach.

And there was I, thinking that the PDs were in government and part of the problem. I thought that MMcD was Tainaiste. I thought that the shortage of busses, both nationally and in Dublin, was the PDs contribution to transport. I thought the separate Luas lines was PD inspired. I thought the inaction at Dublin airport had PD fingerprints on it. Sure there you go.

I think I'll have to go to the politics thread for transport postings, this one is being swamped by party faithfull.

Navan Junction

gobdaw wrote:

this one is being swamped by party faithfull.

Not everybody posting is 'party faithful'...

Transport is political, whether we like it or not.

Victor

gobdaw, please leave the fonts and colours alone.

gobdaw wrote:

Maybe Wednesday Wallace will do better, if she can find time to attend the Dail.

Apparently opologies were issued on that point.

1huge1

Slice wrote:

Since nothing in T21 is certain in itself unless it's a project already underway I would say that it's doubtful the entire plan would be implemented as is regardless of who gets into power as none of the details in T21 are really ironed out.

The fact that Olivia Mitchell seems to believe the interconnector is not essential because Luas now connects Heuston with Connolly just goes to show how lacking Fine Gael are in transport policy.

Perhaps it would be the case that if the Opposition do get into power it would be whichever one of the smaller opposition parties that end up setting the agenda for transport in much the same way the PDs determined so much of policy for the present Government.

Labour would be caught in a difficult position since they would be naturally inclined to support the unions even at the expense of actual progress but maybe there's hope with the Greens??

thats a worrying thought actually
would make you want to keep ff and pd's in power (which i wouldnt mind but not entirely pushed)

DerekP11

Posted by Navanjunction1.
Don't just take my word for this. You mention Platform 11. Ask MarkoP11 and DerekP11 how useful the opposition was at the Meath on Track meeting last December, and compare that to what they have done since.

It was November actually. They showed up, soaked the atmosphere and then hi-jacked the life out of the meeting as if they were important. Since then, one of them has advocated a deviation to Ashbourne (his area) and then went on to propose a brand new line across to Dublin airport.

They all shyed away from potential pit falls/delays to the direct route, such as sewer mains/manholes etc. and in general, just turned up to talk sh**e. None of them talked about fast tracking it. In fact the Ashbourne lad even had the cheek to say that a short term link via Drogheda couldn't be done at all, despite P11 proving it could be done and IE blaming the Dept. of Finance and covering their asses with lazy talk of capacity. (eventhough it exists)

Overall, my perception that night was one of utter hopelessness. I walked away from the meeting with the belief that the opposition in meath have no idea of what they are talking about. A few weeks later FF, Cullen and Dempsey rolled into Navan with the T21 "roadshow". The opposition must have been on holiday, because the aging chairman of CIE was rolled out and had the audacity to say that the Kingscourt branch had a chance, while the Drogheda option was still a no no.

Its all a bit like the fairytale festival at the lambert puppet theatre and no disrespect to Eugene and Co.

Meath is a political and public transport cesspit.

Im in Kildare and the opposition are just as hopeless when it comes to shortfalls in T21 that effect the county. Looks to me like the opposition are frightened of T21 and don't want to criticise it. Afterall, a lot of its projects were dreamed up under the FG/LAB banner. Doesn't mean their the right solutions though. There appears to be a general political acceptance in relation to priority transport projects, but much of it is actually wrong.IMHO.