Sick Days

chigli

How many sick days (uncertified days off) is too many?

I have just been put in charge of monitoring staff's absenteeism. Its a small company, but there is one person who has currently 7 sick days so far this year - are they taking the ****? It is generally a day here and there (though Monday seems to the most common day!)

How would you approach someone like that - annual review? introduction of sick pay policy (i.e. decide not to pay it) etc.

The company never laid out sick pay in the terms of employment so up to now, the company is paying a full day's pay for each sick day - can this be changed?

mikemac

Excellent article on this in yesterdays Sunday Business Post.

I couldn't find a direct link on www.sbpost.ie but it's there somewhere.

Mr. Presentable

Generally two days is what most will pay per annum. Strictly speaking there is no entitlement except to Social Welfare payment for sick days - if you can satisfy them you are sick, of course.

Mo-Mo

I monitor sick days as well, and would consider 7 high, especially if it's a lot of individual incidents. Also in a small company a sick day will usually impact highly on someone else so people should be more mindful of how sick they really are when they decide to take the day off.

What I do is mark in a spreadsheet how many sick days a person took as well as how many individual indicents eg. if someone was sick for 4 days in a row I'd mark that as 4 sick days, 1 incident.

A guy who works here was in hospital last year and so had 12 sick days, but all related to one thing. The next highest person had phoned in sick 6 times, totallying about 9 days I think.

I would consider person 2's record to be worse then person 1's as they were in hospital.

It's difficult to bring it up with a person. I waited until year end to mention to them that they phoned in sick more then anyone else in the company. This seemed to really shock them and their record is better so far this year.

Another company I know give staff an extra holiday day in December if they haven't phoned in sick all year. It might seem a bit unfair if you've been guinely sick but I think it serves as a good pat on the back for those who didn't phone in at all. Plus if you are really sick you won't be tempted to go in just for one extra holiday day.

Mr. Presentable

Mo-Mo has it right. I'd say favour the non abusers. The sickies will dry up.

Seven sounds a lot to me, and a doctors note should always be requested (if nothing else it'll cost him money)

KdjaCL

Jesus lucky we dont work for you.

I have 21 next in the charts is 17,16, 2 lads on 14 new guy there a week on 1.

Question for you, if i prove everyone one of my sicks days with a Doctors note, What can you do?


kdjac

Budd

You don't need a doctors note for the odd sick day.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

CiaranC

Question for you, if i prove everyone one of my sicks days with a Doctors note, What can you do?

Ensure you never get further than the position you hold now, withhold raises, exclude you from training and development, constantly rebuke you under review until such time you leave and go to some other sucker company.

KdjaCL

CiaranC wrote:

Ensure you never get further than the position you hold now, withhold raises, exclude you from training and development, constantly rebuke you under review until such time you leave and go to some other sucker company.

But i only work in your ****hole of a company as the hours suit me (and i can walk to work,kdjac dont do commuting) and i cba with a career with you as its only a job and if i wasnt doing this i be doing another one.

And you would say?


kdjac

KdjaCL

CiaranC wrote:

I would say 'Im sorry things havent worked out for you here at McDonalds, have you considered Burger King across the street?'

You work for Mc Donalds?


But you wouldnt really say that, you wouldnt actually say anything s there i nothing you could say that would change the situation. People take sick days because they dont want to go to work, nothing any company offers will ever change that* so rather than offering incentives to not ring in sick, why not offer days in lieu for any overtime or extra tasks completed, or even half days here and there for extra work completed.

*Foreign staff and certain strange irish people do like work, i understand Foreign people have big rent but i never got those strange people who loved working late and stuff.

kdjac

CiaranC

nothing any company offers will ever change that*

Oh dear. Perhaps when you grow up and get a proper career you'll find that lots of people enjoy working in their chosen field because it interests and stimulates them.

Not everyone is a minimum wage slave with no ambition.

Sure, everyone has a period when they are young and dont give a ****, working in some call centre or something. Did it myself. These places have HR policies to reflect the fact that their staff dont give a toss and will probably only be there 6 months anyway. I dont think the OP was referring to that sort of situation.

KdjaCL

CiaranC wrote:

Oh dear. Perhaps when you grow up and get a proper career you'll find that lots of people enjoy working in their chosen field because it interests and stimulates them.

Not everyone is a minimum wage slave with no ambition.

Sure, everyone has a period when they are young and dont give a ****, working in some call centre or something. Did it myself. These places have HR policies to reflect the fact that their staff dont give a toss and will probably only be there 6 months anyway. I dont think the OP was referring to that sort of situation.

Oh damn your the * type, when i grow up...lol im 30 with a wife and kids i have 3 jobs 2 i enjoy(**** money but enjoyable work) 1 i hate (great money a career to you i suppose) but its handy and pays the mortage, maybe when you grow up and realise a job is a job and nothing more then you can give an opposite answer to the OPs question rather than the "OMG what about my career".



kdjac

worksucks

We had a lot of problems in the place I work with the same people taking fridays and mondays off especially at bank holidays. So they brought in a rule that if you are off on a Friday or Monday you must have a sick cert to cover you for weekend as well. Don't know what you would do about the other days???

information

chigli wrote:

How many sick days (uncertified days off) is too many?

you can use the bradford factor to put a figure on the effect sickdays have on a company
http://www.g20.ie/bf.html

eth0_

KdjaCL wrote:

Jesus lucky we dont work for you.

I have 21

21 sick days???? Unless you are seriously ill - and i'm guessing you're just lazy - you are going to get sacked! That is just unbelievable!

And are you the type that moans when you're left with more work to do when others are out sick for genuine reasons?

eth0_

KdjaCL wrote:

People take sick days because they dont want to go to work, nothing any company offers will ever change that* so rather than offering incentives to not ring in sick, why not offer days in lieu for any overtime or extra tasks completed, or even half days here and there for extra work completed.

You realise companies don't actually have to pay for ANY sick days, it's all discretionary. As a contractor, I can't take sick days when I really am sick because I don't get paid and i'd lose a lot of money. But maybe applying that to a permanent employee like yourself would curb your lazy attitude.

As for days in lieu, I hardly think that applies, if i've taken a duvet day in the past, it's not something i've thought about for days in advance, it's not like I could just ring up on the morning and say I can't be arsed coming in to work, i'm taking a day in lieu.

KdjaCL

As i asked the OP and others, how would you sack me? I have notes for every one of them.

OP asked how to deal with a situation, i present a genuine reply to all of the nice things mentioned above.

In my last job i offered people days in lieu off if certain projects were complete, ie stay weds to meet customers deadline get same amount of hours off on the friday when we werent so busy. Saved on overtime too , staff obviously well happy getting off early on the friday. Absenteeism was non existent in my area only on fridays



kdjac

Wishbone Ash

KdjaCL wrote:

if i prove everyone one of my sicks days with a Doctors note, What can you do?

One can do a lot! Contrary to general belief, an employer is not obliged to accept a Sick Certificate from an employee's doctor. The employer is perfectly entitled to request that the employee attend a doctor of the employer's choice.

Your Sick Certificate from your Doctor proves nothing.

Crea

My sister is working for a company who uses a scale based on :
Number of bouts X no. of bouts X days over 6 mths

So if you have 3 bouts of sickness with a total of 9 days your result will be 81.
She had this and was given an verbal warning. She had vertigo which involved 2 trips to the specialist and an MRI scan but they didn't give a s***
She has since been terrified to call in sick. For 6 mths after she didn't call in sick but was on 6 bouts of antibiotics. Her doc was going mad because the only way my sis was going to get well was through rest and the stress wasn't helping with her health.
My sis in now pregnant and is dying of morning (all day) sickness and tiredness but won't take any time off cause she knows her review is going to be crap and her bonus will be affected.
Does anyoe know what she can do???? The stress (and sickness) isn't doing her any good.

therecklessone

In the spcific case 7 seems a lot.

chigli wrote:

How would you approach someone like that - annual review? introduction of sick pay policy (i.e. decide not to pay it) etc.

My employer has the right to send a doctor to my place of residence if I take an uncertified sick day to confirm my ability to work or not. That would mean expense for your employer, so how about a policy of phoning staff members at home (at some point during office hours) when they take an uncertified day? At least that might stop them taking a day off to go shopping.

I suggest you clearly define how many uncertified sick days an employee can take in one year, once they reach that they require a medical cert.

Consider removing the uncertified sick leave privileges of employees who abuse the system.

I'm a firm believer in using my uncertified "sick" days, but I work in a safety critical industry and the issue isn't illness for me but fitness to perform my functions. A sick child keeping someone up all night would be enough to ensure they couldn't perform their duties as required. That won't apply in all workplaces of course.

Wishbone Ash

therecklessone wrote:

I work in a safety critical industry

"therecklessone" :D:D

therecklessone

Wishbone Ash wrote:

"therecklessone" :D:D

BC

OP it is very difficult to pull up individuals on their sick leave if the company has no policies in place. It may make more sense for you to focus on creating sick leave & pay policies for the company and then work from there.

In my company we can take 7 uncertified days per year with full pay. Any more than 7 days or any more than 3 days in a row must be certified by a doctor. Also if you are sick on a friday and the following monday you must also provide a cert from a doctor as it is counted as effectively 4 days sick.

slave1

In my co. you are not allowed any uncertified, all sick days are paid, well documented policies in place
Last post is your starting point, you cannot comment on the person with 7 days and say it is too high when you have not already gave them an indication of whats expected.
In fairness there could be genuine reasons for the 7 days.
Your policy should also account for folk that go over your target sick days but have had a perfect record in previous years, kinda like a car insurance protection bonus.
I mean someone who has not missed a day in 5 years breaks a leg, they do not deserve the same treatment as someone whos out 5 days every year.

CiaranC

Oh damn your the * type, when i grow up...lol im 30 with a wife and kids i have 3 jobs 2 i enjoy(**** money but enjoyable work) 1 i hate (great money a career to you i suppose) but its handy and pays the mortage, maybe when you grow up and realise a job is a job and nothing more

Each to his own I suppose.

I choose to have one very well paying job which I enjoy and isnt overly strenous, instead of being a 30 year old with 3 McJobs. You do a job for several hours every day, you should enjoy it and get well paid for it. People who have 21 sick days a year will never progress to that kind of situation, because any employer would rightly see them as worthless.

HelterSkelter

It makes me laugh how some employers make such a big deal out of employees who are (genuinely) sick yet they don't seem to notice the person in the office who spends a lot of time making personal phone calls, surfing the net, texting their friends and other general time wasting which probably lose more production for the company than the people who call in sick.

WhiteWashMan

id build sick days, or times of sick, into part of the appraisal process.
the amount of days off sick, effects what happens at pay raise time.

however, that changes a condition of work i suspect, so you may have to look at new contracts?

chigli

Thanks for the great comments. I have spoken to my boss & we are going to build sick leave entitlements into a new employment contract as well as introduce a sick leave policy. As was mentioned earlier on - we can't really reprimand people without have a set policy in place.

During the next annual reviews, the sick leave policy will be discussed with each member of staff. It may be highlighted to certain individuals the actual amount of sick days they had & how disruptive it can be for other members of staff etc.

HelterSkelter - we do notice when people are surfing the web, making personal phone-calls etc. Again the problem arises as to what should be introduced to deal with it. Take away internet? Limit it to lunch-time hours? Introduce some type of key-stroke monitoring?
We don't want to introduce a distrust amongst staff, but rather encourage them to be more productive

kizzyr

chigli wrote:

Thanks for the great comments. I have spoken to my boss & we are going to build sick leave entitlements into a new employment contract as well as introduce a sick leave policy. As was mentioned earlier on - we can't really reprimand people without have a set policy in place.

During the next annual reviews, the sick leave policy will be discussed with each member of staff. It may be highlighted to certain individuals the actual amount of sick days they had & how disruptive it can be for other members of staff etc.

HelterSkelter - we do notice when people are surfing the web, making personal phone-calls etc. Again the problem arises as to what should be introduced to deal with it. Take away internet? Limit it to lunch-time hours? Introduce some type of key-stroke monitoring?
We don't want to introduce a distrust amongst staff, but rather encourage them to be more productive

Get a good firewall that will stop them accessing most of the sites they are interested in and spend their work times surfing.

irishproduce

Crea wrote:

My sister is working for a company who uses a scale based on :
Number of bouts X no. of bouts X days over 6 mths

So if you have 3 bouts of sickness with a total of 9 days your result will be 81.
She had this and was given an verbal warning. She had vertigo which involved 2 trips to the specialist and an MRI scan but they didn't give a s***
She has since been terrified to call in sick. For 6 mths after she didn't call in sick but was on 6 bouts of antibiotics. Her doc was going mad because the only way my sis was going to get well was through rest and the stress wasn't helping with her health.
My sis in now pregnant and is dying of morning (all day) sickness and tiredness but won't take any time off cause she knows her review is going to be crap and her bonus will be affected.
Does anyoe know what she can do???? The stress (and sickness) isn't doing her any good.

I know what company it is.
It all goes back to when CiaranC said these companies have HR policies which reflect the general attitude of the job. Certainly your sister may need some sick days now, however due to abuse by others, she now does not have the option of genuine sick leave. I believe I am thinking of the same company anyway, it a major corporate in this country ya?

hmmm

After a number of sick days (say 5/6 a year), make it policy that any additional sick days will require a cert. You won't be able to discriminate against people if they are genuinely sick.

shoegirl

Call centres in my experience tend to have high levels of sick leave in scenarios where workers are under a high level of monitoring and under stress.

From previous companies I believe that anything more than 10 days overall can be regarded as abuse. Then again if most or all of them are certified (and often an employee who is suffering from severe stress may have higher levels of sick leave) it can be more difficult to deal with. The law is a bit ambiguous on this. What is really problematic is when you have an employee who takes long term unpaid sick leave as effectively the job is usually expected to be left open for them, especially if the reason is "back pain" or "depression."

Then again I have to say that levels of sick leave depended to some extent on how happy employees generally were in the job. I remember one place which reduced uncertified paid days to 5 per year, but what happened was that employees simply took unpaid sick leave. The problem when you don't pay for sick leave (and so cannot really ask for certification) is that some employees will simply take unpaid sick days as extra time off.

It does need to be looked at on an individual basis. In the last couple of years I've missed generally about 1-2 days per year but about 6 years ago I missed about 15, due to heavy levels of stress, and also because I was a smoking athsmatic (which was related in part to the stress). After I gave up smoking (and changed job) this dropped to about 6 or 7 days and eventually fell to just a couple of days per year. My problem was that I used to catch horrendous chest infections and within 2 years of giving up the fags these disappeared gradually.

Would suggest that some kind of reward for full attendance is better than trying to victimise people who may simply be in poorer health, whether or not it is down to their own bad habits, in which case its a good idea to encourage good habits. In the case of the company I gave up the fags after starting work for, they discouraged smoking much more aggressively than my previous company, and had a gym on the site. Have to say that as my health improved, my attendance vastly improved.

tinkerbell

I'm only working a year as I'm only outta college that length of time, and have never taken a sick day. I was feeling under the weather a few times but still went in and worked the full day. I'd only feel guilty taking a day off if I wasn't extremely ill.

Plus, it looks good on your record. I know that some people take days off regularly, it just makes yourself look bad, particularly if it's a Monday, then that's totally obvious.

LundiMardi

shoegirl wrote:

Call centres in my experience tend to have high levels of sick leave in scenarios where workers are under a high level of monitoring and under stress.

From previous companies I believe that anything more than 10 days overall can be regarded as abuse. Then again if most or all of them are certified (and often an employee who is suffering from severe stress may have higher levels of sick leave) it can be more difficult to deal with. The law is a bit ambiguous on this. What is really problematic is when you have an employee who takes long term unpaid sick leave as effectively the job is usually expected to be left open for them, especially if the reason is "back pain" or "depression."

Then again I have to say that levels of sick leave depended to some extent on how happy employees generally were in the job. I remember one place which reduced uncertified paid days to 5 per year, but what happened was that employees simply took unpaid sick leave. The problem when you don't pay for sick leave (and so cannot really ask for certification) is that some employees will simply take unpaid sick days as extra time off.

It does need to be looked at on an individual basis. In the last couple of years I've missed generally about 1-2 days per year but about 6 years ago I missed about 15, due to heavy levels of stress, and also because I was a smoking athsmatic (which was related in part to the stress). After I gave up smoking (and changed job) this dropped to about 6 or 7 days and eventually fell to just a couple of days per year. My problem was that I used to catch horrendous chest infections and within 2 years of giving up the fags these disappeared gradually.

Would suggest that some kind of reward for full attendance is better than trying to victimise people who may simply be in poorer health, whether or not it is down to their own bad habits, in which case its a good idea to encourage good habits. In the case of the company I gave up the fags after starting work for, they discouraged smoking much more aggressively than my previous company, and had a gym on the site. Have to say that as my health improved, my attendance vastly improved.

I work in a call centre with a very high level of absenteeism. In a team of about 25 people there is usually 2 or 3 people sick on a daily basis. I would consider that quite high!

Personally, i find it annoying if i happen to have a sick day and am asked for a doctors cert the next day, i mean jesus, i'm not going to go to the doctor and waste 50 euro for the sake of a cold or tummy bug for to prove to you that i was sick.

Also, i find in places with a high level of absenteeism across the board, the employer should look to improve working conditions before targeting the employees, because generally people call in sick in my place because they work in a stressful environment. In my place all they'd have to do is hire extra staff, thus decreasing stress levels and a high staff turnover.

So, i wouldn't have thought 7 was that high to be honest, i'd say i've had 3 or 4 so far this year.

deisemum

I think it's wrong to expect someone to get a sick cert for every absent day especially when it's something like a tummy bug or flu which doesn't normally need medical treatment apart from bed rest and otc treatments.

If someone has a tummy bug, vomiting and/or diarrohea I think it's cruel to expect someone to travel to their gp and sit for ages waiting to be fitted in to see the doctor. Also look at how many more people are going to be exposed to the bugs. Potential epidemic.:eek:

Doctors are busy enough without their waiting rooms clogged up with people needing sick certs or worse putting them under pressure with home visits all for the sake of a sick cert.

Over the winter period so many people get colds and flus. Quite a high percentage of these could be avoided if people took the time to nip it in the bud and took a day or two to get better at home instead of struggling on, going into work and spreading it resulting in more people catching it and therefore more days lost from work. Maybe employers should look at it from that angle.

I'm self employed and work from home so I'm not affected by this issue. When I did work for a big company you could have up to 10 days without a sick cert. I only ever took 1 or 2 days sick leave in a year apart from a sudden admission to hospital with pre-eclampsia resulting in 8 days leave. In my annual appraisal my manager's manager gave a very negative appraisal about the amount of sick leave I'd taken even though he knew why. What goes round comes round, the miserable swine had to take 6 months leave after having a heart attack.

mcaul

I have a very simple policy in operation.

Single sick days are unpaid unless you have turned up unwell and have been sent home.

When sick leave is accompanied by doctors note, the company will consider each case on its merit. e.g. If it is a quality employee we will make up the difference between social welfare payment & regular salary. If it is an employee with a poor attendance record we are a bit more reluctant to make up the full pay.

This has been in operation for seven years and the number of single sick days in a staff of 27 is less than 15 in an average year. - Helps if you pay decent wages too!

KdjaCL

Your Sick Certificate from your Doctor proves nothing.

Says in my contract that i must provide them and i do, never been warned or my sick days even mentioned.

CiaranC i got a promotion, you were spot on i now make Mc Chicken sambos and get an extra 4k a year.



kdjac

The Sweeper

I'd try and focus more on making people like their job, so that they aren't prone to taking a sick day when they're not sick, or when they're only slightly under the weather.

That, and I'd introduce a policy where I'd expect anyone suffering from the contagious part of a common cold - the achy, shaky, sniffly part - to stay at home in bed for two days, as opposed to coming into the workplace, passing their germs around like plague Mary and then going home sick for a week because they didn't rest up and complications developed.

daveg

3 years ago I had my annual review with my boss. Our review's are broken into several different sections and the last one is timekeeping and attendance. He rated me exceeds on all section except for time keeping because I had taken 5 days sick leave that year. 2 of the days were one off's and I had 3 days, certified, sick leave for flu. He told me I would have achieved exceeded overall (only about 3 in the company of 300 get this each year) had I not had so many sick days. I said it would improve for the following year.

The following year I managed to have 0 sick days. My role requires some flexibility outside of my regular work hours and the agreement was I could take time off as I needed for hours worked up. In other words if I'm in work at 5am or if I have to come back into work at 9pm I'd leave early the next day.

My review came up and he screwed me again on timekeeping. Absenteeism wasn't mentioned (probably because I did really well that year) but he noted I often left the plant without telling him. However this was the arrangement we had agreed to 2 years before and had never been an issue. From then on I didn't give a fúck about my job. I'm leaving tomorrow to start a new role with (I hope) a proper company.

Examples like the above demotivate people and result in excessive sick days. If a company are having problems with absenteeism they should also look at the root cause as well as introducing policies.

Kivun Sotilas

therecklessone wrote:

In the spcific case 7 seems a lot.



My employer has the right to send a doctor to my place of residence if I take an uncertified sick day to confirm my ability to work or not. That would mean expense for your employer, so how about a policy of phoning staff members at home (at some point during office hours) when they take an uncertified day? At least that might stop them taking a day off to go shopping.

I suggest you clearly define how many uncertified sick days an employee can take in one year, once they reach that they require a medical cert.

Consider removing the uncertified sick leave privileges of employees who abuse the system.

I'm a firm believer in using my uncertified "sick" days, but I work in a safety critical industry and the issue isn't illness for me but fitness to perform my functions. A sick child keeping someone up all night would be enough to ensure they couldn't perform their duties as required. That won't apply in all workplaces of course.

In the Netherlands employers actually have an outside company come over to the employees house "at some time" to interrogate and question them about their illness. I thought it was a rather disturbing and intrusive procedure considering the person that is sent over is not even a doctor... how would they know if someone is sick or not?

My partner took one day off in several years because he truly was sick. At 9pm that night long after he had gone to sleep someone from this company turned up to check and interrogate him. I turned them away as I think it is a bit much for someone to come into our bedroom and question a person who is half asleep.

When I was working for an agency there I had several wisdom teeth removed at once and was not able to work that day (too drugged, stitched, in pain and vomiting to work, come on it's surgery) I was called up by the same people questioning me about whether I was really sick or not. They didn't show up as I was rather rude to them through my stiched mouth but still! :eek:

As far as I am concerned it isn't really any of my employers business to know exactly what I am sick with as long as I have a note from the doctor covering it to prove I have a real illness. I also accept that they could fire me for it.

Anna23

A friend of mine has taken 2 weeks off from work in January as she was under lot of pressure in work, she went to the doctor and exp the situation to him, he decided to give her 2 weeks off, on the doc cert it said 2 much work/ stress, the manager called her in after 2 weeks asking for her to explain herself, and that it doesnt seem to him that she is doing 2 much work, she felt under lot of pressure to respond to his questions, anyway, HR got involved and they asked her to go to the companies doctor, she did go and now is expecting to get a docs report, my question is, can they fire her for being out sick for 2 weeks, with a docs cert and will she get paid????

Anna23

A friend of mine has taken 2 weeks off from work in January as she was under lot of pressure in work, she went to the doctor and exp the situation to him, he decided to give her 2 weeks off, on the doc cert it said 2 much work/ stress, the manager called her in after 2 weeks asking for her to explain herself, and that it doesnt seem to him that she is doing 2 much work, she felt under lot of pressure to respond to his questions, anyway, HR got involved and they asked her to go to the companies doctor, she did go and now is expecting to get a docs report, my question is, can they fire her for being out sick for 2 weeks, with a docs cert and will she get paid????

sinbadfury

I would say that they have no choice. If she had a valid cert from a doctor, then that doctor must have thought she needed the break. The companies own doctor would be seen as having a conflict of interest to challenge that.

Whereas there are gross misuses of 'sick-days' by employees, companies are going to have to deal with the very real fact that 'stress' whether work related or personal life related is a real threat to health. It has been proven.

They can't continue to demand the earth moon and stars from employees as a basic effort and then tell them that it is 'part of the industry'

I would see this as unfair dismissal if they sacked her, unless of course she was in cohoots with the doctor who gave her the cert.

Nody

sinbadfury wrote:

I would say that they have no choice. If she had a valid cert from a doctor, then that doctor must have thought she needed the break. The companies own doctor would be seen as having a conflict of interest to challenge that.

A doctors cert don't mean anything regarding pay as all sick leave is unpaid (and only company policy can make it paid from the company). A company also has the right for a second opinion from a doctor of their choice if they pay for it.

Whereas there are gross misuses of 'sick-days' by employees, companies are going to have to deal with the very real fact that 'stress' whether work related or personal life related is a real threat to health. It has been proven.

And I can get a sick cert for 4+ days for €40 going to a doctor making claims about any common unspecific disease (stomach pains, soar throat, chest infection etc.) and be out in 5 min with out any examination (my personal favorite was a person who happened to go sick exactly the same days as his denied request for holidays...). To be fair though this is VERY individual to the doctors but I went to the one above (due to being sick for the last three days and only getting worse) and I know of a couple of more like him via friends.

I would see this as unfair dismissal if they sacked her, unless of course she was in cohoots with the doctor who gave her the cert.

A company is very reluctant to fire anyone who's out due to stress 'cause of the risk of being sued over it.

sinbadfury

Again, it comes down to honesty and being honorable and respectful.

A company *should* assume it's employees are on the level when the say they are sick, and the employee *should* only call in sick when hey actually are

A company *should* allow leave requests if given in enough notice, i.e 3 days

A doctor *should* only give certs when they are warranted.

Probably not the way is is, bet hey, wouldn't it be nice if it were

Anna23

No complaint has been made against the boss, she tried talking to him, but he laughed in her face when she explained the prob, so she decided to go to the doctor, and maybe that way he would pay attention to her. But defo she did not make a complaint against him.

She was honest, she always goes to work, never really misses days, and she has never done this before, the new manager is just rude to her, makes comments along the lines of " as you are wearing a skirt today, I need to get something under the table can you pls move backwards as I dont want u thinking I am looking up ur skirt" she said everyone started laughing, she was brought in to be told that she was monitored and that she isnt up to speed, and then later on found out that the system was not workin gproperly, he was also supposed to increase her salary in january and hasnt done so as yet. I told her to leave but she insists that she does not want to give in to him.

Wishbone Ash

Nody wrote:

And I can get a sick cert for 4+ days for €40 going to a doctor making claims about any common unspecific disease (stomach pains, soar throat, chest infection etc.) and be out in 5 min with out any examination

Whatever about stomach pains, I'd imagine that 99.9% of doctors would not allow a patient with a sore (not soar ) throat or a chest infection leave the surgery without an examination. A chest infection is quite a debilitating condition and could not be feigned. It is totally different from a bad cough. Non-physical illnesses would be much easier to 'put on'.

Nody wrote:

my personal favorite was a person who happened to go sick exactly the same days as his denied request for holidays

That's common in all places of employment.

sinbadfury

Anna23 wrote:

the new manager is just rude to her, makes comments along the lines of " as you are wearing a skirt today, I need to get something under the table can you pls move backwards as I dont want u thinking I am looking up ur skirt" she said everyone started laughing,

Thats harassment, plain and simple, she should not tolerate any of that...I'd would have his job!

Anna23

She seriously doesnt want to go down that road! One of the guys on the site said that if a complaint is made against ur manageru can kiss goodbye ur career in the company

Nody

Anna23 wrote:

She seriously doesnt want to go down that road! One of the guys on the site said that if a complaint is made against ur manageru can kiss goodbye ur career in the company

Well only way is to try to get one up on the boss to make him stop and that gets her into a very shady areas she would not want to go most likely; that or try to move to another department internally.

I would normally recommend a private word with the person/person's superior but if the group laughed (company culture possibly?) well...