Beginner looking for info on cycling and getting fit

junii

Hi,
Im not really sure what roads I should choose for my cycling. I went on the main road there one day and wasn't confident in cycling in the middle of the road so I stayed in to the left. Some cars though overtook within inches. Should I just say f*** it and cycle in the middle or stick to quiter back roads and risk damaging the bike and giving myself the shakes from all the bumps.


Also, I want to get fairly fit now before Christmas. What kind if intensity and distance will I need to do each day? I will check more specifically with google later but I just want an idea for now.

Thanks.

Civilian_Target

Cycle at a comfortable distance from the kerb. My rule of thumb is, if possible, have enough room between where you are and the kerb that you could fit in the gap inbetween if you had to. That means if a car squeezes you, you have a full fallback position.

RainyDay

Can you choose a route that keeps you away from heavy traffic? My morning route is not the shortest route, but it keeps me away from heavy traffic for most of the time.

blorg

Whereabouts are you - would help suggestions. For example, if you are cycling for fitness and just starting off there are _some_ good off road cyclepaths that would keep you entirely away from traffic - Clontarf to Sutton for example is near 10km with only a small on-road break in the middle.

MicraBoy

If you are in Dublin:

DTO

junii

Im actually in the West

Morgan

I'd recommend hooking up with a cycling club in your area. They'll be able to advise you on routes and it'll also be an encouragement to keep going out during the dark winter months.

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/html/site/cyclingireland/frameset.html

blorg

If you can find quiet back roads that aren't in a state that would be ideal. But main roads can be OK if they have a substantial hard shoulder - this gives you a fair bit of room away from the motorists. Otherwise probably better avoid. Morgan's suggestion of a cycling club is a very good idea. Civilian Target's advice as to road position is also spot on.

With regard to daily intensity and distance, I think the single most important thing is consistency - get out every day, or at least as close as is possible. It's not so difficult to find time - before work, after work, lunchtime. Rain is actually the exception rather than the rule (tonight is a distinct exception in Dublin!) If you work 9-5 you will have an issue with the decreasing light; personally I am doing more in the morning and lunchtime these days. I would suggest aiming for a minimum of 30 minutes per spin to start but increasing this to a minimum 45 mins to an hour reasonably soon (within the first month?)

Do make a bit of an effort but don't kill yourself or leave yourself in such a state that you can't go out again the next day. If you do overdo it, don't worry, just take a rest day and get out the next (ideally you would still go for a short really easy cycle on your rest day.) If you get this right you should then be able to start ramping it up gradually - do a little more the next week, a little more the week after, etc. Again if you kill yourself just do a little less the next week, see how you feel.

It helps a lot if you get a bicycle computer so that you can see how much you've done and record it over time. This is great feedback and will help keep you going! Simplest cheapest one you can find, €10-25 will be fine.

DirkVoodoo

Yeah, some people dont give cyclists any rule, in my experience they are the minority. Coming home in the lashing rain today at 6:30 and passing white's cross on the N11, some jerk in a jeep turning down newtown park avenue didnt even try overtaking me or waiting until i had passed (it was a red light!) just came straight across the cycle lane within inches of hitting me.

Was gonna go up and thump the car, but thought better of it.

I cycle down brighton rd in Foxrock every day now and its shocking, you cant go close to the kerb because the sides of the road are a shambles and my teeth always feel like they are going to rattle out of my jaw. Just stay at a distance that suits you and be steady, dont wobble as that seems to really piss drivers off and they are more likely to attempt some silly retribution.

wwhyte

Bike computers are great for motivation, so I second that suggestion.

If you're looking for all-round fitness you should be doing some other workouts too. It doesn't have to be that much. I've found that ten minutes a day of basic strength training (push-ups, tricep lifts, etc) makes a huge difference over a few months. Cycling's great for endurance and can be a great aerobic workout but it doesn't do much for your lower back, which is a key part of your body.

Apologies if you knew this already and "get fit" was shorthand for "get cycling fit".

junii

Yeah, im going to get a cycle computer at the weekend probably. I saw a sigma sport wireless one in the argos catalogue. €44 I think. Are sigma sport good?

As for cycling every day id love to but my bike is new (SCR3) and I don't know if I can really use it in wet weather. I think the tyres are just for dry and theres no mudguards. I was thinking of getting an indoor cycling machine for the wet days.

I was thinking of joining a club but I don't think im fit enough yet as I only started and got the bike last week. Im looking forward to joining one though.


Edit: I was going to start a new thread for this but then decided to just add it in here. Basically my knees have been quite sore since I started cycling with the bike- Fri/Sat/Sun/Mon. Yesterday was my first rest day and there fine now today. Is it just that my knees weren't used to it because I haven't used them like this for a long time? I understand that this is quite a difficult question to answer buy maybe someone just remembers there knees getting sore when they started out first.

daymobrew

junii wrote:

Yeah, im going to get a cycle computer at the weekend probably. I saw a sigma sport wireless one in the argos catalogue. €44 I think. Are sigma sport good?

If you are willing to spend that amount, I recommend the CatEye Astrale 8. It works off the back wheel (so will work with an indoor cycling machine) and displays cadence (so you'll know when to change gears). I love Cat Eye computers and have had various models over the years.

junii wrote:

As for cycling every day id love to but my bike is new (SCR3) and I don't know if I can really use it in wet weather. I think the tyres are just for dry and theres no mudguards. I was thinking of getting an indoor cycling machine for the wet days.

The tyres will work in most weather, though without mudguards you will get a wet arse. I keep meaning to email or drop into Cycle Superstore to see if these clip-on mudguards will work with my LaPierre race bike. They might suit you.

junii wrote:

Edit: I was going to start a new thread for this but then decided to just add it in here. Basically my knees have been quite sore since I started cycling with the bike- Fri/Sat/Sun/Mon.

Yes, it could be because you are new to the bike. Or, if you have clipless pedals, your knees might be twisted due to bad cleat angle.

junii

daymobrew wrote:

If you are willing to spend that amount, I recommend the CatEye Astrale 8. It works off the back wheel (so will work with an indoor cycling machine) and displays cadence (so you'll know when to change gears). I love Cat Eye computers and have had various models over the years.

The tyres will work in most weather, though without mudguards you will get a wet arse. I keep meaning to email or drop into Cycle Superstore to see if these clip-on mudguards will work with my LaPierre race bike. They might suit you.

Yes, it could be because you are new to the bike. Or, if you have clipless pedals, your knees might be twisted due to bad cleat angle.

The sigma sport one is wireless though. I thought that was a good feature. Is that cadence function actually useful or just a gimmick? That looks nice though.

Ill have to check out mudguards then. I will be sad though to get my bike wet at all. With Irish weather though I suppose it has to be done.

I was using clips and straps but thinking back now im not sure if I had adjusted them correctly. Plus im just wearing runners...Will proper cycling shoes make much of a difference.

Turbulent Bill

junii wrote:

Edit: I was going to start a new thread for this but then decided to just add it in here. Basically my knees have been quite sore since I started cycling with the bike- Fri/Sat/Sun/Mon. Yesterday was my first rest day and there fine now today. Is it just that my knees weren't used to it because I haven't used them like this for a long time? I understand that this is quite a difficult question to answer buy maybe someone just remembers there knees getting sore when they started out first.

You might want to check whether your bike is adjusted properly, i.e., saddle height, stem length etc. I'm no expert on this, but check out http://sheldonbrown.com/pain.html#knees for more info.

daymobrew

junii wrote:

The sigma sport one is wireless though. I thought that was a good feature. Is that cadence function actually useful or just a gimmick? That looks nice though.

I read about issues with wireless computers where the display portion often didn't receive the signal. I'm happy with wired computers for that reason.
The cadence is a gimmick if you don't use the info it provides. In a duathlon I use a high cadence at the start of the cycle to get my legs going (~100 rpm) and then lower it for the rest of the cycle leg (~85-90 rpm). In training I might sometimes do a lower rpm to build up my legs. So, for me it's not a gimmick.

Civilian_Target

junii wrote:

Edit: I was going to start a new thread for this but then decided to just add it in here. Basically my knees have been quite sore since I started cycling with the bike- Fri/Sat/Sun/Mon. Yesterday was my first rest day and there fine now today. Is it just that my knees weren't used to it because I haven't used them like this for a long time? I understand that this is quite a difficult question to answer buy maybe someone just remembers there knees getting sore when they started out first.

Sure you're keeping your knees straight when you're pedalling? I cycle with no clips and just runners, it's fine. You need to make sure your knee caps are at right angles to the crossbar (ie - parallel with the handle bars) and only the front third of your runners should be touching the pedals.
If you drop your feet at any given time while sitting on the saddle it should be a stretch for your toes to touch the ground with your bike straight, you should need to lean your bike to comfortably place a foot on the ground.

blorg

Yes, I have had experience with the sore knees all right, I think it is a common ailment. Haven't had it for many years though so can't remember specifically what I did about it or whether it was just a matter of getting used to the bike. It is very important to have your saddle at the right hight - knees should only be _very slightly_ bent when the pedal is fully down.

Proper cycling shoes will only really make a difference with clipless pedals, where the shoe actually locks into the pedal. Runners are fine with toeclips/straps. The trick is just to find a runner that fits in well and doesn't get too stuck. This generally meant not too think a sole. When I used toeclips I bought Adidas and Nike tennis shoes, the blue ones. These also had the advantage of being dirt cheap compared to proper runners.

With regard to the wet weather, I am _not_ suggesting that you go cyling even if it's raining, (I know I don't) but rather that it doesn't actually rain as much as you think in this country. I have an opportunity to cycle mornings, lunchtime and evenings during the work week and this week so far in three days I have got in eight spins, the exception being yesterday evening which was nasty here in Dublin (just commuted home and turned on the fire.) The point is out of nine _opportunities_ to go for a spin it was only raining during one of them. And I would count this a _bad_ three days weather wise! So most days you are likely to get a chance to go out.

The other thing about mudguards though is that of course the weather here is unpredictable and you have to be prepared for the chance that it may rain while you are out on your spin. So mudguards (and bringing a rainjacket) are indeed a good idea. If your bike does get wet/muddy, it's not the end of the world - it's easy enough to clean/relube it in 10 mins with something like Muc-Off. If you only go out when there is no _chance_ of rain you will not be doing much cycling in this country

RainyDay

blorg wrote:

Proper cycling shoes will only really make a difference with clipless pedals, where the shoe actually locks into the pedal. Runners are fine with toeclips/straps. The trick is just to find a runner that fits in well and doesn't get too stuck. This generally meant not too think a sole.

Do these clipless pedals work well in heavy traffic around the city, where you will inevitably need to place at least 1 foot on the ground every few minutes?

daymobrew

RainyDay wrote:

Do these clipless pedals work well in heavy traffic around the city, where you will inevitably need to place at least 1 foot on the ground every few minutes?

Works for me. I have SPDs on my commute bike. I tend to just unclip the left shoe. As the pedals are double sided, it is easy to clip in.

blorg

RainyDay wrote:

Do these clipless pedals work well in heavy traffic around the city, where you will inevitably need to place at least 1 foot on the ground every few minutes?

Yes, they work fine once you are used to them, and the learning curve is pretty short. When getting them first you should practise unclipping for a while indoors, propped against a wall, and then maybe try to avoid heavy traffic or possible sudden stops for the first few weeks. Eventually it becomes second nature and they are actually far easier to get out of than toeclips+straps. With SPDs you just flick your heel outwards and you are out of the pedal. You do have to adjust the pedal for the right tightness (not too easy or too difficult to disengage) and make sure the cleat is firm and straight on the shoe.

EDIT: It also helps, at least when starting, if you unclip at least one shoe well in advance of when you anticipate needing to stop, or if negotiating tight spaces (making sure that you will be coming down on the side you unclip.)

junii

blorg wrote:

Yes, I have had experience with the sore knees all right, I think it is a common ailment. Haven't had it for many years though so can't remember specifically what I did about it or whether it was just a matter of getting used to the bike. It is very important to have your saddle at the right hight - knees should only be _very slightly_ bent when the pedal is fully down.

Proper cycling shoes will only really make a difference with clipless pedals, where the shoe actually locks into the pedal. Runners are fine with toeclips/straps. The trick is just to find a runner that fits in well and doesn't get too stuck. This generally meant not too think a sole. When I used toeclips I bought Adidas and Nike tennis shoes, the blue ones. These also had the advantage of being dirt cheap compared to proper runners.

With regard to the wet weather, I am _not_ suggesting that you go cyling even if it's raining, (I know I don't) but rather that it doesn't actually rain as much as you think in this country. I have an opportunity to cycle mornings, lunchtime and evenings during the work week and this week so far in three days I have got in eight spins, the exception being yesterday evening which was nasty here in Dublin (just commuted home and turned on the fire.) The point is out of nine _opportunities_ to go for a spin it was only raining during one of them. And I would count this a _bad_ three days weather wise! So most days you are likely to get a chance to go out.

The other thing about mudguards though is that of course the weather here is unpredictable and you have to be prepared for the chance that it may rain while you are out on your spin. So mudguards (and bringing a rainjacket) are indeed a good idea. If your bike does get wet/muddy, it's not the end of the world - it's easy enough to clean/relube it in 10 mins with something like Muc-Off. If you only go out when there is no _chance_ of rain you will not be doing much cycling in this country

Well I don't get the chance to cycle at lunch but I would like to do it in the mornings. Can you recommend what kind of lights I could get for this seen as the mornings are so dark. Ill need them in the evening now aswell as soon as the daylight saving time changes. I was looking at this one http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/productDetails.asp?productID=7955&categoryID=104 .1500 Candle power seems good.

My saddle is def. fitted right and the knees are fine now today after a good cycle yesterday. I actually changed my pedal technique slightly yesterday (I think its the correct technique now) and that has definitely made a difference to my cycling. Hopefully thats the end of the knees problem.

I think the first upgrade I will get (along with lights if you'd call that an upgrade and a cycle computer) is clipless pedals and shoes.
What should I get basically im willing to spend abit if im getting good value for money.


Great link Turbulent Bill.

blorg

Some suggestions:

• Shimano M520 pedals 32.68 EUR
• Shimano SD60 Sandal 59.43 EUR - personally I am addicted to these but for winter something like:
• Shimano MT20 52.00 EUR
• Myself I currently use the older version of these Specialized Sonoma shoes because I liked the look of them. They have broken now, might replace with same or the Shimano ones above (Chainreaction have free Irish shipping.)
• The Cateye Astrale 8 is available for 37.14 EUR from Chainreaction; alternatively the Cateye Mity 8 at 25.25 would be the current version of my own computer (Mity 3) which I have been using happily for near ten years now but lacks the cadence information. (I am planning on upgrading to something with cadence, an altimeter and possibly going mad for one of the PC logging ones, but only because I am cycling a lot these days.)

If you are only starting off there is no need to go mad with the gadgets and accessories. See how you like it first. Besides, extra money spent on accessories could be put into the bike. What bike do you have BTW?

Regarding lights - will you be cycling on unlit country roads or lit roads, as different lights would be needed for each (the latter, you are aiming to be seen by others but do not have to illuminate the road so that you can see things yourself.) Personally I would not cycle in darkness on unlit roads at all, excepting short unavoidable patches (like we have between Baldoyle and Portmarnock here in Dublin.) I use something like this Smart Polaris BL-181WW on front and a basic 5-LED flasher on the back.

junii

Them pedals look perfect. I will buy them in a local store if possible because I want to get the shoes fitted there aswell. I don't want to buy shoes off the net.

Some of the specialized shoes are nice. Two people have recommeded cateye computers to me now so I think ill get that rather than a sigma sport I was looking at.

My bike is a Giant SCR3. Im not going to go mad but I don't really like the clips and straps.

Unfortunately, I live in the country so it will be dark roads. Im not sure whether cycling like this is right for me but I won't know until I try it. I will definitely need a strong light.

blorg

I'd imagine normal prices in an Irish LBS would be €50 for the pedals and €80-90 for the Specialized Sonomas - I think that was around what I paid anyway.

With regard to strong headlights, they do exist but others will have to advise on that. I would be really wary about the dark roads. Currently there is light from around 7.45 here (a bit later in the West) and this will be get an hour earlier from the end of the month, so depending on when you start work there may be a bit of time there. Depending on when you end maybe a bit after at least until the end of the month. And of course you have the weekend. Personally I would not cycle in the dark on country roads and I have been cycling over ten years; I _have_ done it on occasion through necessity, and it was nasty. I certainly wouldn't recommend it as a good introduction to cycling! Make sure that in addition to the lights (at least two rear) you have a reflective vest/belt, etc.

junii

Ok, Ill take the advice on not using dark country roads. I will be able to manage a cycle in the morning actually with reasonable light come the end of the month.

That suits me perfectly. Ill check out shoes and pedals at the weekend and get lights for dull mornings. Would that smart polaris be what I need for the front also? I already have some reflective gear. Actually when you say two lights rear...is that 2 lights within in one unit. Like your one has 5 lights??

Cheers for the help,
Appreciated.
Junii.

Edit: How about this back light? http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=9112

Or maybe this one.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=13420

I don't want to skimp on something as important as being seen.

daymobrew

I have Specialized Sport MTB shoes with SPD cleats (bike came with SPD pedals) for my commute. Easy to walk it.
I have Shimano R130 shoes (I liked the look of the buckle) and Look pedals (maybe not that model) for my road bike/duathlons. Walking ain't easy.

I have a link at home (will post here later) that shows how bright various lights are. It's a surprising read.
The CatEye TL-LD1000 rear light looks like a monster. I saw a guy with it. It had mad light sequence. The CatEye HL EL300 is another monster. Strange thing is that the TL-LD1000 is available as a bundle with the EL530. e78 for the pair (a suspiciously low price based on the prices when sold separately).

junii

I wonder can the EL530 be turned down if its just dull and you just want to make sure you are seen. It would be handy to have it just incase you ever did decide to go out at night. It would save you having to buy 2 front lights.
I think I may just stick to the front light blorg has recommended though.

Do you think it would be worth getting that cateye backlight. Im thinking safety first but is something that bright really necessary. I don't want people to start thinking theres an apparition going on or anything.

I like those R130's.

junii

http://www.cyclesuperstore.ie/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=156&idproduct=10538

These are wicked looking.


And this seems like a good deal. http://www.cyclesuperstore.ie/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=156&idproduct=2692

How the hell can you buy shoes off the internet though without putting them on first???

daymobrew

junii wrote:

How the hell can you buy shoes off the internet though without putting them on first???

Always the difficult part about such purchases. When I bought my Specialized Mtb shoes I went into Cycle Ways, tried on a pair and got the size. A friend went and bought that size, for a good bit cheaper, in a bike shop in Cork. I did tell CW of the Cork price and said that I'd buy then in CW if they'd match the price. They choose not to.

The velcro straps are perfect if you do triathlons or duathlons. Much quicker to get in and out of. Such shoes often have a big loop strap on the heel to help you pull the shoes on in a hurry.

HJ Simpson

Hey if you are cycling on unlit roads I would recommend one of the recharable light sets.
Such as
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=1715
or the ones I use off road which cost alot
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=9204

Also I would wear a hi viz vest and ankle straps
Also at least two rear lights. That way people wont be able to say they didnt see you.

HJ Simpson

Raam

blorg wrote:

Personally I would not cycle in darkness on unlit roads at all, excepting short unavoidable patches (like we have between Baldoyle and Portmarnock here in Dublin.)

Blorg...
you in Portmarnock? I used to cycle that stretch a lot when I was there. it was my least favourite bit of my commute in winter as the cars belt it.

Junii...
I have these lights...
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=8904

very bright. Get about 3 hours usage out of them at a time.

For shoes, it's best to try them on in a shop first if you can. I did that, and then went on the web and bought em for 40 quid cheaper!

junii

I was thinking that id just get ordinary rechargeable batterys.

Ill try them on in the shop so. Hopefully they will have the ones I linked to!

Very expensive compared to this King Raam http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?Main=ProductDetail.aspx&W=0&Manufacturer=Cateye&UberCatName=&Cat=cycle&CategoryName=&ProdID=5360025771&UberCat=0

I wonder would there be much difference. Quote from cateye review "1500 candlepower and a maximum 50 hour run time!"

The light and motion solo says 13watts. How are you supposed to compare these? Candlepower, watts!!! Im confused.

daymobrew

Here is the How Bright is tat Light? link I promised.
The difference between the basic and top end lights is shocking.

blorg

King Raam wrote:

Blorg...
you in Portmarnock? I used to cycle that stretch a lot when I was there. it was my least favourite bit of my commute in winter as the cars belt it.

No, I'm in Donnybrook, but a favourite spin is out to Malahide, largely because of the coastal cycle path from Clontarf to Sutton. If I was doing it after work it would sometimes be dark by the time I am returning along that bit, hence my experience. Truly nasty. I have had similar experiences elsewhere on Dublin's periphery (Meath, Wicklow, Kildare, Dublin mountains), as well as when away touring and we didn't reach our destination on time. Conclusion from my many all unwanted experiences cycling on completely unlit roads is that it sure isn't something you'd do for fun. _In general_ drivers are driving very fast, the roads are often narrow and bendy, and they don't expect to come across someone on a bicycle.

junii

daymobrew wrote:

Here is the How Bright is tat Light? link I promised.
The difference between the basic and top end lights is shocking.

Ill put that link into my favourites but or now ive decided to give the lights a miss seen as the price of the good ones is out of my league. When I start doing my morning cycles I may just get something to be seen by motorists should needs be.

Alkers

The really expensive lights are for cycling at night off-road. You should be able to get a very good set of road-cycling lights for no more than €40. You don't need big headlights like a car.

blorg

junii- you _need_ lights if you are cycling in the dark, and this includes dawn/dusk. Preferably a reflective vest/belt as well. As Simon says, those lights are for off-road or complete darkness, e.g. where you have to light up the road ahead of you yourself. You can get basic LED sets (front and back) from €10-20, there really is no excuse.

With the winter coming on unless you are only cycling around lunchtime it is easy to get caught out in the dark; things like thick clouds can also severely accelerate nightfall. So make sure you get lights and keep them on your bike if there is any chance it's going to get dark during your ride at all.

EDIT: Anything is better than nothing: basic LEDs and a reflective vest on a dark country road while not ideal are a hell of a lot better than being out there with nothing at all.

kinaldo

Haven't read all of this thread but suffice to say the best way to get fit is to cycle up Killiney Hill Road and back, then up Glenageary Hill and past Fox Rock through Dean's Grange and into the city centre. Keep that up every day until Christmas when you'll be fit as a fiddle and ready for the Tour de France. Don't worry about cars, you can just ignore them. It's pedestrians that are your enemy. Watch out for the jaywalkers as they come in all ages, shapes and sizes and usually step out in numbers, particulary in town.

blorg

I think if junii was to cycle up Killiney Hill Road every day from where he is located he would need to be fit as a fiddle all right ;-)

rubadub

junii wrote:

at this one http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/productDetails.asp?productID=7955&categoryID=104 .1500 Candle power seems good. .

I got the slightly lower spec EL500 on ebay from a proper shop, brand new for less than half price ( of what is was in town) delivered, and I got the best cateye rear led too, for less than half price.

This was not a lucky bid, it was a buy it now, all of the higher end lights are dirt cheap on ebay.

Think this was the guy
http://cgi.ebay.com/CATEYE-EL500-AND-LD1000-Bike-Light-Set-EL-500-LD-1000_W0QQitemZ190044068078QQihZ009QQcategoryZ22689QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

the 2 lights for $70 (~€56) including delivery, only took about 5 days to get them.

Very bright, my brother used to pull back the curtain when I come home since he thinks it is a car pulling up and shining in the window.

daymobrew

I just ordered a loud backpack cover from Wiggle. Hopefully it is as offensive to the eyes as it appears in the picture.

rubadub - The EL530 and LD1100 set are about 78 euro on Wiggle, considerably cheaper than when bought separately.

junii

Well I thought I would be alright if I just made sure it was late enough in the morning but just incase I will get that cateye package from Wiggle.

It will be handy to have it anyway.

rubadub

daymobrew wrote:

rubadub - The EL530 and LD1100 set are about 78 euro on Wiggle, considerably cheaper than when bought separately.

Thats €94 delivered from wiggle, still a good bit cheaper than the shops here. They do packages in the shops here too, a good bit cheaper than separate, but they still come in separate packages, seems a bit odd.

I was reading that a company had created a LED that outputs more lumens per watt (the measure of efficiency of lights) than any other bulbs, including metal halide, and high pressure sodium. In about 5 years they reckon all floodlights etc will be LEDs