More supplement hysteria - this time it's Tony Ward

BrianD3

Anyone see the Irish Indo sports supplement (haha) today? Tony Ward writes about creatine and supplements and their use in under age rugby. The theme is very similar to that of the Gerry Ryan show the other day and in fact the Gerry Ryan show is praised for highlighting this "issue". Some quotes from Ward:

"just say NO"

"I abhor the very use of the word supplement - it undermines the essence and innocence of sport"

"creatine....an affront to the spirit of sporting law"

"in my day it was through naturally attained fitness and natural ability"

"I am becoming alarmed at the stories of young boys increasingly reliant on protein supplements leading to Creatine use"

"legalised cheating"

"not everyone who starts out with protein drinks progresses to creatine and then steroids but the temptation is far greater once you are on that road"

:rolleyes:

yomchi

BrianD3 wrote:

Anyone see the Irish Indo sports supplement (haha) today? Tony Ward writes about creatine and supplements and their use in under age rugby. The theme is very similar to that of the Gerry Ryan show the other day and in fact the Gerry Ryan show is praised for highlighting this "issue". Some quotes from Ward:

"just say NO"

"I abhor the very use of the word supplement - it undermines the essence and innocence of sport"

"creatine....an affront to the spirit of sporting law"

"in my day it was through naturally attained fitness and natural ability"

"I am becoming alarmed at the stories of young boys increasingly reliant on protein supplements leading to Creatine use"

"legalised cheating"

"not everyone who stats out with protein drinks progresses to creatine and then steroids but the temptation is far greater once you are on that road"

:rolleyes:

Happy days! Some great advertising there from a man who clearly knows Jack Sh1t about anything to do with sports nutrition!

YOu can buy legalised cheating supplements in Pro-Nutrition Phibsboro 6 days a week...just don't tell the medicine board :rolleyes:

Chucky the tree

I am surprised he had the time to write this, thought he would be to busy licking BODs hole.

Degsy

BrianD3 wrote:

Anyone see the Irish Indo sports supplement (haha) today? Tony Ward writes about creatine and supplements and their use in under age rugby. The theme is very similar to that of the Gerry Ryan show the other day and in fact the Gerry Ryan show is praised for highlighting this "issue". Some quotes from Ward:

"just say NO"

"I abhor the very use of the word supplement - it undermines the essence and innocence of sport"

"creatine....an affront to the spirit of sporting law"

"in my day it was through naturally attained fitness and natural ability"

"I am becoming alarmed at the stories of young boys increasingly reliant on protein supplements leading to Creatine use"

"legalised cheating"

"not everyone who starts out with protein drinks progresses to creatine and then steroids but the temptation is far greater once you are on that road"

:rolleyes:

"protein supplements leading to creatine use"
Sweet jesus,protein is a gateway drug to creatine,addiction and certain death!

Gillo

Who is Tony Ward?

At first I was thinking of Tony Quinn, which would have been very funny alright.

OFDM

gillo wrote:

Who is Tony Ward?

A rubbish former Ireland rugby player...

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

g'em

OFDM wrote:

A rubbish former Ireland rugby player...

hardly rubbish in fairness. he played for Ireland during the 70s and 80s and was on the Munster Team that beat the All-Blacks in 1979. Think he was part of a Lions Tour as well.

Anyway, I don't pay much heed to him really- having been in one of the schools he was a coach for a while I know that his opinions are often a bit off-the-wall. He's misinformed and pandering to the mammy brigade about the supplements. Unfortunately as one of the better known rugby pundits people will be likely to listen to and believe him without questioning his sources/ info.

Leon11

His meaning is right in a sense though, all top schools will have the majority of it's players taking supplements, these schools live for schools cup success. The less succesful schools provide the option of rugby merely as an extra curricular activity and do not get caught up in the false hype.

Filter this down to competition and see what it's like when the big schools play the small ones and tell me that creatine is not giving those guys an advantage.

No probs with supplements at all just not in underage sport as it helps enhance the big whilst the smaller guys with lots of skill are cast aside usually.

My opinion is no supplements in youngsters ie up to 17 and after that it's fair game.

KdjaCL

Whats the point of being fit if you use something to help?

Seriously a fit body is fit because effort went into it, using anything other than water or lucozade sport defeats the purpose of being fit.

Handy tho you can always spot the junkies a mile away


kdjac

yomchi

Some people aren't just 'happy' being fit, for those that have never been there, there is another level past fit. Thank God for TeamTest!

KdjaCL

Jon wrote:

there is another level past fit.

Umm and that is?

If i last 90 minutes playing ball im fit atm im at 20 mins


kdjac

g'em

KdjaCL wrote:

Whats the point of being fit if you use something to help?

Seriously a fit body is fit because effort went into it, using anything other than water or lucozade sport defeats the purpose of being fit.

Handy tho you can always spot the junkies a mile away


kdjac

oh dear...

using anything other than water or lucozade?? what about electrolytes, multivitmains, fish oils, glucosamine, amino acids...?

again, there is huge confusion about what exactly whey and creatine are. whey is a byproduct of the cheesemaking process, pure and simple. It's protein, the same protein found in meats or other animal product. Creatine is an organic acid found naturally in the body, regardelss of supplementation.

Taking either is a way of supplementing a healthy diet. You're not actually adding in anything that's not already there, you're just providing an active body with more of what it needs to perform better athletically.

I'm curious to know if you consider creatine and whey users as 'junkies'.

And Jon means that being able to run around a bit without getting out of breath is fine as far as being 'fit' is concerned, but if that's your goal, then happy days. But then some people keep getting fitter- they push themselves beyond comfort zones and constantly strive for personal improvement- lifting more, running faster, fighting stronger...

Chucky the tree

KdjaCL wrote:

Whats the point of being fit if you use something to help?

Seriously a fit body is fit because effort went into it, using anything other than water or lucozade sport defeats the purpose of being fit.

Handy tho you can always spot the junkies a mile away


kdjac

Why dont you class lucozade sport as a supplement for "junkies"?

KdjaCL

Chucky the tree wrote:

Why dont you class lucozade sport as a supplement for "junkies"?

Its water but a different colour (contains SUGAR!!!), i suppose everyone has an idea of being "fit" and if drugs fit into it then its ok.

using anything other than water or lucozade?? what about electrolytes, multivitmains, fish oils, glucosamine, amino acids...?

If you feel the need to justify whatever drugs you are taking go for it im sure it helps you in someway to become fit.

Call me old fashioned but i jog/run/walk/cough up a lung for 90 minutes every day with the mad idea that when it comes to a match i will last it. It seemed a cunning plan intricate yet simple.............

kdjac

King of Kings

KdjaCL wrote:

If you feel the need to justify whatever drugs you are taking go for it im sure it helps you in someway to become fit.

Call me old fashioned but i jog/run/walk/cough up a lung for 90 minutes every day with the mad idea that when it comes to a match i will last it. It seemed a cunning plan intricate yet simple.............

kdjac

for one supplements aren't magic beans that will make you fly upon taking them. you still need to put the work in otherwise the body won't use them.

You are entitled to your opininon but I do not think taking as supplements thigs that are found naturally in our food is cheating

KdjaCL

King of Kings wrote:

You are entitled to your opininon but I do not think taking as supplements thigs that are found naturally in our food is cheating

Why not just eat the food

As i said if people feel the need to justify things other than hard work go for it, once you feel ok with it.

kdjac

yomchi

KdjaCL wrote:

Its water but a different colour (contains SUGAR!!!), i suppose everyone has an idea of being "fit" and if drugs fit into it then its ok.



If you feel the need to justify whatever drugs you are taking go for it im sure it helps you in someway to become fit.

Call me old fashioned but i jog/run/walk/cough up a lung for 90 minutes every day with the mad idea that when it comes to a match i will last it. It seemed a cunning plan intricate yet simple.............

kdjac

Who mentioned drugs? Where in this entire thread did anyone condone using drugs? - Thats right no one did, so it kind of proves a point - you haven't much of a clue when it comes to nutrition. If you think fish oils and amino acids are drugs your in for a surprise.

Why not eat food you say - here's another surprise... Protein is food!! Whey, Casein, Soy... yep all food - imagine that :eek:

Guess what Protein breaks down into? - Amino Acids.. so what does that make amio acids? yep 10 out 0f 10... FOOD.

What makes Creatine? (apart from the body:rolleyes: ) yep Amino Acids!! Can you see a pattern developing here?

Look up the word supplement. Its an add on, an optional extra. Top athletes eat food. But they understand that when their bodies are operating at peek condition (not a stroll with the dog or a match every sunday in the pheonix park) - the know they need that optional extra. If it was cheaper and easier for athletes to carry around Brown rice and Turkey mince and veg for every meal of the day athletes would do it - but hey its not that simple. So people came up with the idea to take the macro/micro and phyto nutrients and make them handy for athletes to carry around and to access easy. Hence FOOD SUPPLEMENTS were born.

You should read up a little before you go stomping around the fitness forum with half truths and half answers.

KdjaCL

Jon wrote:

Its an add on, an optional extra.

You should read up a little before you go stomping around the fitness forum with half truths and half answers.

Umm isnt a fitness forum for people who are or are trying to get fit. Generally anything in a tablet form is a drug whether optional extra or not is still a drug once in tablet forum. As i said if you feel its ok then its ok other poeple may have a different opinion tho.

That said is my fitness plan cunning or simple? or should i take some drugs to help it?


kdjac

Chucky the tree

Protien doesnt come in tablet forum, and i dont think creatine does either.


Taking troll lessons from lemlin and big nelly recently KdjaCL?

Whats in a name

KdjaCL wrote:

Umm isnt a fitness forum for people who are or are trying to get fit. Generally anything in a tablet form is a drug whether optional extra or not is still a drug once in tablet forum. As i said if you feel its ok then its ok other poeple may have a different opinion tho.

That said is my fitness plan cunning or simple? or should i take some drugs to help it?


kdjac

All pro footballers take these supplements, are they cheating? Its more for convienience than anything

Boru.

Generally anything in a tablet form is a drug whether optional extra or not is still a drug once in tablet forum.

Hmmm, intresting disctinction to make actually - regardless of the form a substance takes it cna be classified as a drug, but is it necessarily harmful? For instance both salt and caffine are drugs that people regularly ingest.

Caffine is used to increase thermogenesis and calorie burning, increase alertness etc, found in everything from tea to most weight loss pills. It's adictive and has a proven effect on the human body. It's also a drug that nearly everone ingests, abused and it can have side effects. So can chococlate, which was originally smoked, also adictive and affects the heart.

I know of one substance that improves sports performance by up to 33%, reduces body fat, increases thermogenesis, susbtantially increases strength and makes the muscles appear fuller and large by increasing their volume. Its a chemical everyone has access to and does more for sports performance then most supplements out there - H2O, water. It can improve sports performance so should we insist all players of sports do so without water, because it may be unfair to someone who is dehydrated, even by as little as 1%?

As regards protein use - I get this alot - even recently from my own mother! "All those protein supplements are dangerous". Protein supplements are nothing more than concentrated milk or soy exrtact depending on which you use. As to why pone would use them - here's an easy explanation, in order for me to take in an optimal amount of protein to support my goals, that of a lean muscular appearance, I need to ingest 620 kcals a day of protein. I can do that by eating a LOT of chicken, or I can "supplement - as in additonal to a regular normal diet" myself with a high quality natural protein - whey.

Clearly I'm no diferent from a supermodel taking crack cocaine to keep slim....:rolleyes:

As for creatine - its naturally produced by your body. There have been NO long tern studies showing conclusive evidence that creatine can damage your health. It works because it increases fluid (water) absorbtion to the muscles. This is turn allows the muscles to store more glycogen giving the more energy resevres. This increase in fluid gives the msucle a fuller shape, and a improves nervous conductivitvity and stored energy allowing you to lift more...etc...granted thats an overly sipmlistic presentation but thats about it.

The real problem is I'm the majority of people don't take in enough water anyway. :rolleyes:

The REAL danger is that despite the advent of new and incredible technologies like the internet, people have lost the ability to question and learn by themselves.

Most of the people who heard that show or read the Metro article about it or anything else on it for that matter will automatically acept it as gospel - they will not question, they will not research and they will not discover other possible point of views, analyse the information and draw there own conclusions.

Now we are lucky in many respects becasue of this board and those like Team Test, because they allow for objective debate on matters such as these, where points can be raised, discussed and perhpas people will follow their own investigations and draw their own conclusions.

Never accept the evidence presented to you at face value. I stress this to my clinets as well. Do not take what I say as the only way - or only opinion, its not. Take it as a base to research your own answers becasue really thats all it is. Question and drw your own conculsions. I treasure my cleints that do that - becasue the help educate and they help me find questions I have not asked.

So what is your opinion of creatine - how deos it relate to you and your goals. Could it be advantageous, could it not? Is it necessssary or superfulous? Will it accelerate or inhibit? Is it it good or bad for you?

Do you need protein in your diet? From what sources? how much? Is convenience a factor? COuld it aid or conflict wiht any dietary choices or medical issues you may have? What does the evidence suggest?

Draw your own conculsions, but do so only if you have examined the evidence - knee jerk reactions to radio talk shows or even to online forum posts made by unseen individuals, :rolleyes:, only result in ignorance.

ronbyrne2005

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=36&si=1706419&issue_id=14768

SpAcEd OuT

will you copy and paste that in here, cheers

justsomebloke

KdjaCL wrote:

That said is my fitness plan cunning or simple? or should i take some drugs to help it?

If you are only currently only lasting 20 minutes during a match I wouldn't say that your current fitness plan is either cunning or simple I would say that it is crap. You keep doing what is probably HIT training thinking that it is great while other people have a more structured regime and actaully research decent ways of ways of training and then watch them runs rings aound you in the second half of the match as their fitness levels are way up.

Oh just remember don't ever take seven seas multi vitamins as they will lead you onto the way to taking things like cod liver oil tablets and nexting bang before you know it you are taking steroids.

justsomebloke

Boru. wrote:

I know of one substance that improves sports performance by up to 33%, reduces body fat, increases thermogenesis, susbtantially increases strength and makes the muscles appear fuller and large by increasing their volume. Its a chemical everyone has access to and does more for sports performance then most supplements out there - H2O, water. It can improve sports performance so should we insist all players of sports do so without water, because it may be unfair to someone who is dehydrated, even by as little as 1%?

ah see this is where you are getting it wrong Boru. like duh. everyone knows that water is fine however once you put it in it's incapualted form that you are on the slippery slope of cheating in sports.

So remember kids just say "NO" if anybody ever asks you if you want ice in your drink:rolleyes:

Boru.

ICE is a colloquialism for several hard narcotics - oh my god drug dealers have been ripping people off for years!

Leon11

Kdjac your a bit off with your comments I think. There's a few pat's lads that use supplements like a lot of other el players and they aren't cheating. Steroids are a different kettle of fish and don't agree with people using them in order to compete better.

King of Kings

KdjaCL wrote:

Why not just eat the food

i do. lots of food.
check my fitness log for full menu.

KdjaCL wrote:

As i said if people feel the need to justify things other than hard work go for it, once you feel ok with it.

kdjac

i do all the hard work i can muster i'm not justifying anything here. I don't see why you consider food replacements drugs?

one other question bothering me...you say you train for 90mins ....what happens if there is extra time?? you F8cked??

rubadub

KdjaCL wrote:

using anything other than water or lucozade sport defeats the purpose of being fit.

KdjaCL wrote:

Its water but a different colour (contains SUGAR!!!),

It contains highly refined glucose syrup. This is refined or produced from foodstuffs like grains. Most glucose is made via the enzymatic hydrolysis of starch. Undergoes far more chemical processes than protein production.

(protein shakes contain PROTEIN!!!!)

KdjaCL wrote:

Why not just eat the food

Why dont you just eat fruit instead of taking that nasty drug lucozade, you do know they sell lucozade in tablet form too...

Dragan

KdjaCL wrote:

If i last 90 minutes playing ball im fit atm im at 20 mins

I have a few training protocols and supplements that will help if you need them.

No offense, but i normally expect people who come on to a board and say things like "you should be able to be fit naturally" to actually be fit naturally????

To much GTA maybe? I know my couch has seen a lot of me due to Liberty City Stories!!!

As for Lucozade....i believe someone once said this on here, so i will quote it!!! "Lucozade, giving athletes diabetes 33% faster!!!"

Dragan

KdjaCL wrote:

As i said if people feel the need to justify things other than hard work go for it, once you feel ok with it.

To be honest i find this funny, because your match fit for 20 mins and your talking about hard work? Unless you were match fit for no minutes 2 months ago, and have attained your current level then i think you need to reavaluate what you are think is hard work.

I also suggest you learn the difference between nutrition, supplemental nutrition, drug use and medicines, as you are swinging and missing on most of your arguments.

A bit of education goes a long way, and generally speaking makes some good grounds to stopping people looking like a tit on a forum.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

iregk

What I find hillarious here is the fact that he showed next to no knowledge (somethign he does quite often in the soccer forum!) and then just disappeared when eductated people put forward their arguments. In other words he couldn't handle a proper discussion as he had no facts, no basis and ended it the way he does every discussion I've seen him in, a pure well if thats what you think then fine!

The fact of the matter is I have played football at a high level. Shamrock Rovers in the their prem days to be exact. Now I and everyone at that club was taking suppliments from carb gel, protein bars, protein powder and also creatine. This doesn't even come into the rehydration fluids that are not just water! Every single EL club is the same as in all the premiership clubs because guess what kdjacl? Training that amount to play at that level you body cannot repair itself fast enough naturally so to avoid injury and aid recovery taking suppliments is a must. Does that mean your precious sport is riddled with drgus and its all cheating?

Transform

KdjaCL wrote:

Its water but a different colour (contains SUGAR!!!), i suppose everyone has an idea of being "fit" and if drugs fit into it then its ok.



If you feel the need to justify whatever drugs you are taking go for it im sure it helps you in someway to become fit.

Call me old fashioned but i jog/run/walk/cough up a lung for 90 minutes every day with the mad idea that when it comes to a match i will last it. It seemed a cunning plan intricate yet simple.............

kdjac

I now know who to forward all the viagra emails i get sent to!

Might need a little help what with lacking any real testosterone production

CerebralCortex

KdjaCL wrote: »

Whats the point of being fit if you use something to help?

Seriously a fit body is fit because effort went into it, using anything other than water or lucozade sport defeats the purpose of being fit.

Handy tho you can always spot the junkies a mile away


kdjac

That's what I love about creatine, you never have to work out to get ripped! Boom! I'm off on a roid rage :rolleyes:

Oryx

After 7 years this thread deserves to rest in peace.