43% of Americans believe that Saddam Hussein was personally involved in 9/11

Memnoch

spooiirt!! wrote:

Yeah or the university of typical stereotypes. Biddel di die diedell die hey, wheres your pot of gold my son?

Well 43% of americans believe that saddam was involved in 9/11, and 43% believe the bible is literally true, these aren't sterotypes, they are researched facts... I'm guessing it's the same 43%, and I'm guessing the university of holy bible truths does indeed apply.

There is a difference between sterotypes and mythology which you seem to be confusing.

If someone thought that most irish people abused alcohol, then that would be a stereotype, but it wouldn't be far off the mark since something like 50% of irish ppl binge drink

guildofevil

Look. Intelligence is not a function of where you are born.

I could have been born in Alabama, instead of Dublin. My brain would work in the same way. I would be no more or less intelligent than I am now but I would have grown up differently and could well believe that the 9/11 hijackers were Saddam's best buddies.

Americans are not stupid. On average, they are not as well educated than Europeans but this is a relatively small difference and does not explain this phenomenon.

The reason for this shocking ignorance, on the part of so many Americans, is that they tend to be very parochial.

Most Americans who buy a newspaper by a local newspaper, not a national one. This is because they are primarily interested in events in their immediate locality. They are interested in their local city or county government and the state legislature. Most get a bit vague when it comes to national politics and really don't have a clue when you move into the realm of international affairs.

When someone comes up to them on the street and asks them their opinion on something in international politics, they don't have a clue, but don't want to seem uninformed, so they feel they have to at least try to answer.

With only half remembered CNN from months or years ago to go on, they just fall back to an understandable emotional reaction and begin, as they see it, supporting their country.

They don't know what they are talking about, but they believe that the US are the good guys and they know that Saddam is evil, so they make an assumption.

They don't know the real deal (do any of us) and they were arguing with a neighbour about the new stop sign proposed for the junction Blake Avenue avenue and 4th street, when GWB made his statement, changing the official party line on Iraqi involvement in 9/11. Basically, they didn't get the memo.

They are not stupid, they just aren't all that interested.

They may no know much about international politics, but I bet they know a lot more about their local government than most of us know about ours.

Ayla

I am an American, and I came to live in Ireland almost 2 years ago b/c of my husband. Every now and again a thread like this starts on this website that is American-bashing and this one, like the others, never ceases to amaze me.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to proclaim that Americans as a whole know very much about the world. I agree that we are spoon-fed our opinions, and few take the time or energy to formulate their own ideas about current events.

And don't even get me started on the Bush/Kerry election (that was b.s., I have no doubt). :rolleyes:

My decision to post on this thread, however, is maybe to suggest a bit of tact when criticizing Americans so generally. After all, a lot of Americans are direct descendants of Ireland (and not so long ago that they're not claiming their "Irishness" within the States.) Yes, 43% of Americans may incorrectly believe that Saddam had something to do w/ 9/11, but that means 57% are undecided or understand that he didn't. Even by election standards 57% is a majority.

And I've been living within Ireland long enough to take the rose-tinted glasses off and see that a lot of Irish don't have a clue about current events either. And I predict that the more comfy the Irish become with their new economic standing the less they'll know about the world around them. It's a common phenomenom...the wealthy are content in their little fishbowl and so don't bother about the cats peering just above the water.

Just think before you go criticizing an entire nation of people, especially if you've never lived there or personally experienced their lives.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

well, I've been living in canada for the past year.. about 5-6 hours from the american border and I've yet to meet a single person who didn't tell me a couple of stories about "stupid americans" they've had contact with.

maybe americans aren't as stupid as the rest of the world things, but the rest of the world doesn't really care. if it feels good we laugh at it.

guildofevil

I agree completely with you Ayla. I am often saddened by the ignorance and apparent stupidity found in Ireland too.

In fact, if you look hard enough anywhere in the world you will discover that people are stupid.

For example, I lived in Germany for a while and, while they are, for the most part, more interested in international politics, I don't think they really understand them any better than anyone else.

During the first Gulf war, they really got their knickers in a twist.

Somehow the the German Public got it into their heads that, not only did Saddam have the mad big Supergun everyone was crapping on about, at the time, but that it was capable of delivering chemical warfare shells to Germany.

They were really scared of this and all of the army/navy surplus shops ran out of gas masks in no time flat, causing even more panic.

People were really angry and scared and began shouting about the government not protecting the people from the imminent chemical death they were all going to suffer.

My aunt, who is Irish, was living in Schleswig-Holstein (the most northerly part of Germany) at the time and was actually considering flying back to Ireland and staying with my mother, so she and her family, be safe.

My mother couldn't believe the hysteria on on the other end of the phone.

aidan24326

Akrasia wrote:

The people are indoctrinated, the rulers are powerful because they have the biggest guns and no qualms about using them.
Power is not necessarily derrived from intelligence, more often, power comes from violence and aggression

Quite true. You don't have to be intelligent to be powerful, unfortunately. As someone once said, the trouble with power is it usually ends up in the hands of the very people who shouldn't have it.

Lirange

Ayla wrote:

Yes, 43% of Americans may incorrectly believe that Saddam had something to do w/ 9/11, but that means 57% are undecided or understand that he didn't. Even by election standards 57% is a majority.

That may be so. But how many of those 43% just happen to be Republicans? There was a report on CNN awhile back that conducted the same poll but correlated it with political loyalties. You can guess the results. Some of this may in fact be due to insularity and I agree with much of guildofevil's comments. But some of it just bullheadedness. You do not have to be a worldy person to know better. You don't need to have all the answers in order to ask the right questions.

As simplistic as it sounds there are really two Americas right now. It is polarised. That polarisation is NOT based upon the war on terror or foreign affairs. It centres around social values and cultural politics. The political climate is so divided that the people on either side take on the other policies as a matter of course ... that includes international issues. The Republicans condemned Clinton during the Kosovo intervention. This was just after the movie Wag the Dog. The Republicans were making the most of that alleging it was an attempt to divert the American public away from Monicagate. People in this administration can definitely be characterised as war hawks but I would not say that of Republican party supporters ... they are just toeing the line. As long as their core social/conservative values are upheld the politicians are given leeway on the international stage.

Ayla

Lirange wrote:

That may be so. But how many of those 43% just happen to be Republicans? There was a report on CNN awhile back that conducted the same poll but correlated it with political loyalties.

First of all, I've done polls, and I'll tell you there are so many ways to make the data say exactly what you want it to say that it's almost a joke.

I'm not saying the Republican party hasn't fully supported a lot of this war, and that a lot of Americans are Republican. That's obvious. It's a common theme that when people get nervous, as they did after 9/11, the Republican party gains popularity b/c they come in with a hard attack and put the people back on the offensive.

And it's also common, as you noted that both parties play these games with the public and ensure the "other guy" is dragged through as much mud as possible. That's politics, and we don't need to look any further than Irish politics of the last week to see the same thing happening here.

So how does this reflect on the American people? From growing up there, I can say that (as guildofevil mentioned) Americans are much more concerned with their local goings-on then the international world. It's not necessarily right, but it's true. That doesn't mean they're stupid or laughable, but what it does show is that when you live in a nation that's as big as the states, it's easy to forget that there's anything else.

So when the media spoon-feeds you information, much of which is biased in it's on way, it's easy to take that as fact and base your opinions on that. I'm not defending it (it's a lazy and easy way out), but perhaps we could all try and understand why the general American population is as it is? I know it's funny to laugh at Americans and everyone loves getting their digs in (Mordeth you're guilty of this as well), but how about everyone stop the jokes for awhile to actually see the real issues?

I'll be the first to admit Americans aren't perfect, but by God neither is anyone else.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

spooiirt!! wrote:

Yeah yeah americans are dumb. Say how many of the worlds top twenty universities are American? How many are Irish?

your American right?

that post proves the point

LovelyHurling

Originally Posted by spooiirt!!
Yeah yeah americans are dumb. Say how many of the worlds top twenty universities are American? How many are Irish?

Depends what kind of measuring stick you use. what gives you the idea that the American universities are better than anyplace else?
The popular theory in corporate-academic circles is that the measure of a universiity is it's research output cited in upstanding, largely scientific journals. Not only does much of this fail to take account of the humanities and law, but indeed is completely ignorant the quality of teaching bestowed upon undergraduates.
It's offtopic, but I think it's an important point.

And lets not forget the notable international presence in the ivy league universities either.

Ontopic: there isnt really much more to say. The fact that 43% of Americans s.d.+/- 4.5% actually believe that crap is telling in itself.

Shabadu

Memnoch wrote:

Americans never seize to amaze me.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/43-of-americans-still-be_b_28877.html



Okay the guy in the video does seem to be a bit of a psycho but he's funny and makes some valid points.

Here's a link to the original CNN article...
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/09/06/iraq.poll/index.html

Seriously though, how can a democracy function when such a huge portion of the populace is clearly ignorant and clueless? This is the power of and danger from organizations like FOX news that are responsible for spreading this kind of misinformation and propaganda.

Well, to be honest, in a shopping centre in Tullamore last year, I saw a 10 yr old point out a Halloween mask of Osama Bin Laden to his Mum saying: "Look! Look! Saddam Hussein!". Fair enough, thought I, a silly mistake for a 10 yr old. Surely his Mum will now correct him. Tullamore Mum: "Oh yeah! LOL!"

InFront

hallowe'en masks of bin laden? what next, hallowe'en masks of dick cheney?

Shabadu

Yeah, the whole vignette complete with turbaned Bin Laden Mask felt like some post modern, post ironic live art ensemble.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Ok - Polls are the easiest thing to manipulate in the world

For example - Headline tells you "Polls show 90% of people support the Irish language in schools" - then goes on to say this is a reason Gaelige should continue to be compulsory in school.

I know one person personally who surveyed joe public for this poll - the question was "Do you think the Irish language should be taght in schools?" even though you'd have expected it to be "do you think Irish should be optional or compulsory in schools?"

I wouldn't be surprised if the Hussein question was along the lines of "Do you think Saddam Hussein may have had any personal involvement in 9/11" - You exaggerate any & a lot of people who didnt know for sure/didnt care will answer yes.

I worked for a different telemarketing place - you can easily get people to answer in a certain way if you feel like it/

America bashings getting old- insulting them generally is insulting ourselves. Same species I'm afraid/

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

Ok - Polls are the easiest thing to manipulate in the world

I wouldn't be surprised if the Hussein question was along the lines of "Do you think Saddam Hussein may have had any personal involvement in 9/11" - You exaggerate any & a lot of people who didnt know for sure/didnt care will answer yes.
/

but the point here is that he didn't have ANY personal involvement in 9/11.
so 43% are still hugely ill informed, or just plane dumb...even the way you put that question.

Bottle_of_Smoke

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

but the point here is that he didn't have ANY personal involvement in 9/11.
so 43% are still hugely ill informed, or just plane dumb...even the way you put that question.

plane dumb - teehee, the ironing is delicious!

Honestly its split second stuff - ill informed yes but as i said can be easily manipulated/ if it had of been "do you think it's possible Saddam Hussain had any personal involvement in 9/11?" I reckon you'd get at least 43% of Irish people to say yes.

Don't mean to be condescending but I've worked in these places & I know how easy it is to do.

free2fly

Ouch! We're not all that gullible. I didn't vote for Bush in either election. And I was completely disgusted with the suggestion that Hussein had anything to do with 9/11. I never bought the progaganda that is spewed by certain US news channels. I have a mind of my own. I read international websites to get a different view of world situations. I hate generalizations. But to be fair I have spoken to many Americans who will believe anything they are told, or are just too caught up in their own lives to care much about international issue.