WHEN RENAULTS GO WRONG (pic)

knifey_spoonie

Was getting lunch yesterday and heard a car coming at full rev's expecting a boy racer this is what i saw
[IMG][/img]

It was a 03 laguna diesel, it was at full revs for about 3 min's, by the time i got to him he had all the fuses and battery out , and everything inc lights were still going,i reckon it was the computer or a snaped cable

Just wondering has anybody else heard of this happening

Thats what ya get for buying a renault

Guy:Incognito

A problem with a car? Never. Theres been 2 threads in the last couple of days with Toyota problems, are they idiots or can toyotas never go wrong?

peasant

He probably pressed the "SELF DESTRUCT" button

Why didn't he kill the engine?
(Press clutch, insert highest gear, stand on breaks, let go of clutch ...silence)

EDIT:

I've heard of diesel engines, where the valve seats or injector seats leak diesel into the lubrication oil sump. Eventually the engine oil will become so thin and combustable that the engine will run away on its own oil and become uncontrollable by means of gas pedal or turning off ignition

bazz26

Delayed Y2K bug or maybe it got hit by lightning?

Lucifer

have seen this happen to a few vans from being over full with oil. have a van in work at the moment that was 5 litres over full and wouldnt stop so the driver did the same, pulled fuses and battery. Is also a renault engine!

White Van Man

knife_fighter wrote:

i reckon it was the computer or a snaped cable

Just wondering has anybody else heard of this happening

Thats what ya get for buying a renault

It's a known problem with the 1.9 dci engines

EGR valve sticks shut and a while later things go boom, as you witnessed

gyppo

According to parkers.co.uk, wrt. laguna dci engines, the usual fault here is faulty oil seals on the turbocharger. Car starts to fuel itself from the oil in the sump.
Turning off the ingnition will not stop the engine - the engine will self destruct unless you can stall the car quickly.

zuutroy

Happened to me when I was driving a taxi for a few weeks, in the middle of Dame St! Stopped it as mentioned above: into 5th, clutch out.

crosstownk

Ah yes - a Renault. Probably a tyre pressure monitor issuing a "kill engine" command.

Wait til Junkyard sees this!!!

junkyard

Ha, ha, ha, I rest my case.:D

Fey!

As said before, overfilling with oil can have that effect. Can't remember the technical term, but basically it's impossible to stop.

bushy...

Seen it happen before , if your quick/can get at it crush the air intake hose if you can't stall it ,no responibility held for flying turbo blades etc killing you though

endplate

Fey! wrote:

Can't remember the technical term, but basically it's impossible to stop.

Running on is the term and it is possible to stop as described earlier in the thread

NiSmO

This post has been deleted.

peasant

The only thing thats electrically controlled on a diesel engine is the fuel supply, the actual ignition happens all by itself, without a spark (unlike petrol)

In cases where the engine runs away with itself, it is not burning diesel through the normal fuel supply, but instead sucking in engine oil (or a mix of oil and diesel) through some faulty seal or another and burning that instead.

Cutting the electricity supply by removing cables / batteries is absolutely pointless in this case, you can interrupt the fuel supply all you want ...the engine is getting it from somwhere else and keeps on running, revving ever higher and higher.

The only way to stop the engine in this case is to stall it. Even an engine running at max revs does not have enough power to move a car from standstill in the highest gear and with breaks appplied.

Stick it in the highest gear, stand on the breaks and let the clutch snap. It might do one jolt forward ...but that's it ...engine off.

Brutal and not exactly clutch friendly ...but effective.

Another reason why you need to stop it quickly: As it is burning its own lubrication, it will eventually run dry, metal on metal until its totally destroyed.
If you stop it in time, all you need to fix is the broken seal. If you leave it running, your engine will only be scrap metal and you will need a completely new one.

EDIT: depending on the engine, it might actually even rev itself to death, long before the lubrication runs out. If it is getting enough stuff to burn, it might just rev ever higher and higher until something snaps.



and as an aside ...in the country where I got my driving licence, you actually learn these things during your theory classes in driving school

knifey_spoonie

My first toughts were Renault ecu, i took me about a min to think about putting it in 5th and stalling it, your man then just said to me, "thats what i get for buying a renault"

peasant

on the defence for Renault

The 3.1 liter Isuzu engine was/is also quite famous for that kind of thing. In their case it was faulty injector seats that dripped diesel into the oil sump, thinning down the oil and topping it up to a level where the engine could "help itself" to its own unregulated fuel supply.

They had a worldwide recall for that.


Don't know whether Renault has ever recalled any of their diesels ...

mike65

http://www.carsurvey.org/modelyear_Renault_Laguna_2001.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/modelyear_Renault_Laguna_2002.html

http://www.carsurvey.org/modelyear_Renault_Laguna_2003.html

If you can find a car with more blue faces you are doing well.

The Mk1 has much better reviews

Mike

ongarite

peasant wrote:

on the defence for Renault

The 3.1 liter Isuzu engine was/is also quite famous for that kind of thing. In their case it was faulty injector seats that dripped diesel into the oil sump, thinning down the oil and topping it up to a level where the engine could "help itself" to its own unregulated fuel supply.

They had a worldwide recall for that.


Don't know whether Renault has ever recalled any of their diesels ...

Wasn't that something to do with red diesel that had been "cleaned" and sold as regular diesel. It was happening loads in Northern Ireland as garages were selling on cleaned red diesel to regular unknowing punters.
The percentage of failures in N Ireland was way higher than other countries, Izusu had teams over trying to figure out the root cause.

Do-more

I was driving outside Trim a few weeks back came up behind a genius in a '01 Laguna Diesel puttin' out clouds of black smoke, passed him out and pointed it out to him, he gave me a big smile and a thumbs up! Lunatic. Looked in my mirror when I was up the road a bit and the black smoke had turned to blue, not a happy ending I think.

Darragh29

endplate wrote:

Running on is the term and it is possible to stop as described earlier in the thread

"Running on" is when carbon in the combustion chamber usually around the electrode of the spark plugs, starts glowing red and becomes an ignition source, so when the ignition is switched off and the spark plugs stop providing an ignition source, the glowing carbon provides a source of ignition. This hardly happens on modern engines with injectors as the injectors will stop supplying fuel even if there is a source of ignition. Anyhow, that's not what happened here. All the white smoke/steam, looks like a serious head gasket problem, whatever caused the revs to stick at fulls revs for 3 minutes is a bit of a mystery...

lau1247

if this is the case, how would the insurance fare out?
It's not exactly the owner's fault that this happen..

Does the manufacturer replace a new one or do you claim insurance?

junkyard

A customer of mine has a 06 Grande Senic and are having major problems with the brakes, the main dealers have had four attempts at fixing them without success and they're reply now is "we can't fix the problem so basically p*ss off or sue us if you want to" thats a nice bit of customer service thanks to Renault. Its not the only time I've heard of Renault not being able to fix they're problems and people still buy the f**king things, will they ever learn. I suppose as the saying goes " There's a sucker born every minute".:rolleyes:

Larry David

Shouldn't this topic be called "When one Renault goes wrong" - since it only gives one example, with one photo? I was expecting more....

mike65

A search of the boards archive will lead to a few more horror stories.

Mike.

joolsveer

I have a Renault Mégane and its not as bad as those ones. In three years it has only broken down about a dozen times and has never gone on fire yet. I'm thinking of trading it in for another.

BreadBoard

joolsveer wrote:

I have a Renault Mégane and its not as bad as those ones. In three years it has only broken down about a dozen times and has never gone on fire yet. I'm thinking of trading it in for another.

Would that post be considered to be an oxymoron post?

only broken down about a dozen times and you want another?

gyppo

Larry David wrote:

Shouldn't this topic be called "When one Renault goes wrong" - since it only gives one example, with one photo? I was expecting more....

Here's a link to another forum (Sorry Mod's if this is against rules - please delelte if this is the case ) - lots about Renault in here

http://www.parkers.co.uk/advice/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=8

JHMEG

Darragh29 wrote:

"Running on" is when carbon in the combustion chamber usually around the electrode of the spark plugs, starts glowing red and becomes an ignition source,

That's a condition that can occur in petrol engines, and ironically is called "dieseling", because, like in a diesel engine, there is ignition without spark.

Darragh29 wrote:

whatever caused the revs to stick at fulls revs for 3 minutes is a bit of a mystery...

Explained already.. engine was feeding off its own oil!

maidhc

lau1247 wrote:

if this is the case, how would the insurance fare out?
It's not exactly the owner's fault that this happen..

Does the manufacturer replace a new one or do you claim insurance?

I only know of one other situation where an engine self destructed on a newish car. It was a 5yo Ford Focus 1.4, and the camshaft went to sh1t for some unknown reason.

Ford replaced the engine FOC after a bit of persuasion.

maidhc

JHMEG wrote:

That's a condition that can occur in petrol engines, and ironically is called "dieseling", because, like in a diesel engine, there is ignition without spark.

Except diesels ignite due to compression, not because of a heat source... apart from single cylinder semi-diesels which have a blow-torch integrated into the head.

JHMEG

maidhc wrote:

Except diesels ignite due to compression, not because of a heat source.

Yup, hence why I said the condition known as "dieseling" affects petrol engine.

Being absolutely precise about it: diesel engines ingite due to heat which is caused by extreme compression of the air in the cylinders. The air gets so hot the suspended diesel ignites.

sk8board

Its a pity to hear all this about the renault diesels, but unfortunately i've seen a very similar problem with my mother-in-laws megane, although it was stalled immediately, and since rectified.
Incidently she sold me her '00 Megane Rxi (the 1.4 petrol 16v 98bhp one) about 4 years ago, and still talks about it being the worst desision she ever made!
On a side tangent, she had a BIG scare just a few months ago when the power steering failed completely while at speed. Resembled a small woman steering a tank!

maidhc

JHMEG wrote:

Yup, hence why I said the condition known as "dieseling" affects petrol engine.

Being absolutely precise about it: diesel engines ingite due to heat which is caused by extreme compression of the air in the cylinders. The air gets so hot the suspended diesel ignites.

I know! My point is that the term "dieseling" is a misnomer, as petrol engines don't "run on" because the compression in the cylinder is causing the petrol to ignite... unless of course we accept "dieseling" to refer to the operation of semi-diesel engines, which ironically enough don't generally run on diesel.

(completely OT, i know!)

fletch

joolsveer wrote:

I have a Renault Mégane and its not as bad as those ones. In three years it has only broken down about a dozen times and has never gone on fire yet. I'm thinking of trading it in for another.

Are you for real!? I have a '98 Escort and in two years it hasn't broken down once!

sk8board

fletch wrote:

Are you for real!? I have a '98 Escort and in two years it hasn't broken down once!

a '98 escort that hasn't broken down in 2 years? Have you actually drove it?

junkyard

Escorts might be bland, boring and primitive but they don't break down anything like a new Renault will and thats a fact. Renaults are rubbish and anyone who knows anything about cars will confirm this. If anything, the newer the Renault the worse it is.

sk8board

junkyard wrote:

If anything, the newer the Renault the worse it is.

its a pity, but it seems to certainly be the case.

that said, you only every hear about the horror stories; the silent majority (95%?) with no issues will never write about that fact.
I always buy at knockdown prices (for good reason), but if you know your way around a car, you can pick a cheap winner every time. Buying a renault new is just not a good idea. ('06 laguna for 20k anyone?)

personally I'll never ever buy another Mondeo or a Peogeot (of any kind) based on past grievences, but can't guarantee I won't buy another Renault as i've never ever had a problem; and I've found the comfort level, trim and ride always excellent.

I don't buy diesels (at the moment), so don't see this problem in the thread putting me off.

junkyard

Generally speaking the silent majority don't like to admit they f**ked up and bought a lemon and get shot of said lemon as soon as possible. Why do you think there are so many 06 Renaults for sale around the place? And I'm not talking ex-hire drives either, these are privately owned cars that have caused major problems. Ask any car dealer and off the record they will confirm this.

crosstownk

I deal with all makes and models from a leasing perspective. Very few people lease Renaults anymore. Reason being that the residual is just sh1t. At the end of lease we sell the cars to the trade, and they will not pay decent money for a Renault. This drives the residual price down and the lease premium up making a Renault uncompetitive. So its not just what the few here on boards.ie think - its a well known fact in the motor trade - steer clear of a Renault. From a motor traders point of view its a costly item to sell. And the newer the Renault the worse it is.

I'm not out to 'Renault bash' - I'm just saying what I see every day of the week.

damo605

I had a Renault (Safrane 2.0 petrol) and it was a fabulous car, my father-in-law has a 96 Laguna 2.2 diesel with *massive* mileage and it's a great car too!
On the other hand I know a guy who had a new shape Megane (From span new) and he was literally counting down the days 'till he traded it in, it gave him that much trouble. I also know someone with a new shape Laguna (03) and to be honest they would be a lot happier if they didn't have it.
I don't know if it's to do with the more advanced electronics or what but is it my imagination that newer cars in general (Many brands) seem to be getting less reliable/more troublesome?

Guy:Incognito

junkyard wrote:

Generally speaking the silent majority don't like to admit they f**ked up and bought a lemon and get shot of said lemon as soon as possible. Why do you think there are so many 06 Renaults for sale around the place? And I'm not talking ex-hire drives either, these are privately owned cars that have caused major problems. Ask any car dealer and off the record they will confirm this.

Carzone have 275 06 renaults and 456 06 toyotas at the minute. Crappy toyotas?

junkyard

Check out the sales figures ratio and you'll see how many Toyota are sold compared to Renaults. Seriously though, as a car dealer myself, we can't all be wrong. Cars earn their stripes, be they good or bad, I wouldn't put a car down without good reason and its the same reason why some cars are worth more money secondhand than others. But I suppose some people will stick to their guns and buy crap cars, its ultimately their choice.

BrianD3

junkyard wrote:

Renaults are rubbish and anyone who knows anything about cars will confirm this. If anything, the newer the Renault the worse it is.

Well junkyard - most of what you post in this forum is just exaggerated and ridicuous bashing of various makes from Renault to VW, Alfa to Volvo. Just on the Volvos I've read a few times that you regard the modern ones as plastic sh1t and only crappy Renaults underneath, not decent safe reliable cars like they used to be 20 years ago. Then in the next sentence you'll say how great modern Ford cars are.

Anyone who knows anything about cars will see all that's wrong with statements like these.

Also you rarely get into specifics. I'd love to know exactly what problems you've encountered with various makes that you bash. But no, instead you come out with meaningless "soundbites" like RENAULT? I'D SOONER STICK PINS IN MY EYES. You've felt that is important/funny enough to put in your signature alongside the ads for the car you are selling. PS I believe commerical advertising is not allowed on boards. I'm surprised you haven't been stopped from doing this.

I also notice from a cached version of your sig from june this year that you were flogging a 2001 Laguna, funnily enough you didn't have the stick pins in my eyes statement in then :rolleyes:

Junkyard's old sig from google cache wrote:

Wanted: Old Matchbox, Dinky Toys, Corgi, model cars etc., all conditions, top prices paid. P.M. me with details.
I buy REAL cars, classic and modern, for cash too, P.M. me.
For Sale: 2001 Renault Laguna 5750euros (trade)
For Sale: 2003 Hyundai Getz 1.1 Sport.
For Sale: 1997 BMW 525TDS M5 replica, leather, auto.
For Sale: 2006 Volvo S40 Diesel.
For Sale: 1996 Micra 1.0 3dr.P/S.a/c nct 1999euros

Also on your statement in the last post about 2nd hand values - you bash VW almost as much as you bash Renault yet the VW Golf is one of the best cars in its class for holding its value. I am not a VW fan and think they are overvalued but at the same time your bashing is the other extreme. If 2nd hand values are a measure of how good a car is then why this discrepancy.

junkyard

Well Brian the Laguna is still for sale so it looks like its your lucky day. As regards faults with Renaults anyway, we'll stick to them as your such a fan, igniter failure and failure by Renault to rectify the problem and the result being the new igniter fails after about six weeks. Breakdowns as a result of electrical component failure, again a problem that Renault can't seem to fix. As I mentioned in a recent post which you don't seem to have noticed, a customer of mine has a 2006 Senic with major brake problems which go from being stuck on to no brakes at all and after four attempts by the main dealer with no success the garages reply is to "p*ss off, we can't fix the problem so sue us if you like" I think this kind of treatment to somebody who has paid a lot of money for a car is totally unacceptable as most people can't park up a 06 car and do with out it for years as the courts fight it out as to who is to blame. I could be here for the day typing out problems and no doubt Brian you'd have a defence for every one of them, your actually starting to sound like a Renault customer service person, but to be honest I couldn't be bothered as I'll never own one but if they work for you the best of luck.

VW's don't hold their money that well in my part of the country and I stick to my guns that they're not as good as they're made out to be. The earlier ones were very well built but as I've said before the new ones are overly complicated and as a result fail on a regular basis.

BrianD3

Yes I read the post about the 06 Scenic that the garage is apparently refusing to fix. I didn't mention it as I was dubious about the story and thought there could be two sides to it. A 06 car under manufacturer warranty that the garage is refusing to fix? Why the hell would a garage turn down work especially since Renault will be the ones paying. It's even more surprising considering its a brake problem. For obvious reasons main dealers are very wary about sending a customer away if there is even the slightest possibility that their brakes may be faulty.

If this garage is sending customers away with faulty brakes then I can't see them holding on to their Renault franchise for long. If I were the owner of that Scenic i'd bring it to another main dealer and see if they also don't want Renault's money for warranty work.

No I do not work for Renault. I don't deny that they can have problems but with 20 years worth of Renault ownership in our family I can talk about specifics. Even though my own Laguna II and the ones owned by my mates have been very reliable I am well aware of the potential weak areas on the Laguna II from reading forums and talking to people I know in Renault dealers.

joolsveer

BreadBoard wrote:

Would that post be considered to be an oxymoron post?

only broken down about a dozen times and you want another?

No. I meant to be humorous. In truth I would never buy a Renault (or a Peugeot) again.

BreadBoard

Ah, I'm sorry I misunderstood you

I myself have drove Nissan cars since I was 19. I had a 91 Micra, I done the scrapage deal on that in 2000 for a 00 Micra and this year I moved to the 1.8 2000 Primera. I have drove other cars but I don't think I can comment on cars really as I have only owned Nissan cars. But I can tell you that if was to get another car it more than likely be a Nissan as I have very little problems with them. I had only one problem with my 00 Micra, the clutch went on it about 18 months later but luckily enough it was a fault on the car and not mine and was repaired under the warranty. I never had a problem with it after that.

What's your opinion on Nissan's junkyard?

fletch

sk8board wrote:

a '98 escort that hasn't broken down in 2 years? Have you actually drove it?

I've put up over 24k miles in the last 2 years and no joke not one single issue and she's pushing 110k miles! It hasn't even been to a garage, save for new tyres but I change the oil every 4-5 miles myself and do other easy jobs. (spark plugs, filters, coolant) I'm literally in amazement at how reliable it is.
My Auntie had a '99 Clio and the electrics were a complete disaster...she will never buy a Renault again, when she was trading she bought a Polo and deliberately got one with no electrics after her experience with the Renault.

BrianD3

In fairness to junkyard he's not the only Renault basher in this forum. There are others too and TBH a lot of what is posted doesn't stand up to scrutiny. For instance I have read wildy exaggerrated prices being mentioned for work carried out on Renaults by main dealers. Owning a Renault myself I got worried and decided to verify these price. What I found was that the prices being quoted here were way OTT compared to what Renault dealers were actually quoting/charging.

Also there are vested interets in this forum. I believe the thread starter is the son of a Toyota dealer, he's hardly going to have an unbiased view now is he? Will probably end up working in or taking over the garage eventually.

BreadBoard

BrianD3 wrote:

In fairness to junkyard he's not the only Renault basher in this forum. There are others too and TBH a lot of what is posted doesn't stand up to scrutiny. For instance I have read wildy exaggerrated prices being mentioned for work carried out on Renaults by main dealers. Owning a Renault myself I got worried and decided to verify these price. What I found was that the prices being quoted here were way OTT compared to what Renault dealers were actually quoting/charging.

Also there are vested interets in this forum. I believe the thread starter is the son of a Toyota dealer, he's hardly going to have an unbiased view now is he? Will probably end up working in or taking over the garage eventually.

Well here's the opinion of a non car dealer/mechanic/etc person;

I would not buy a Renault !

The reason I say this is because I have some good friends and generally ppl are honest and in many conversations with these ppl cars would be a subject that would pop-up, and I can honestly say that if Renault comes into the conversation they feeling I get from the majority of these ppl would be that Renault are not reliable.

I've seen this myself on the road. This is a good example;

It's night time (daytime this works too ) and you see a car ahead of you driving forward with it's reverse light(s) on it then indicates to turn left/right and the brake lights start to flash along with the indicator. You get up close to this car and it's always either a Renault, Peugeot or a Fiat.