A silly idea?

phantom_lord

I was playing live 1/2 poker over the summer and making a decent enough profit (far more than I was making in my min wage summer job anyway :rolleyes: ), however, I changed course this year and so had to pay fees, and have no grant, so my roll is gone.

Rather than get a part time job I was thinking of playing live a few nights a week, the local cash game is fairly soft, and I'd probably supplement that by playing in the fitz say two nights a week, which seems pretty beatable, my problem is I've no bankroll to start off.

Something I was thinking of doing, and maybe it's far too risky, is to take out a student loan of say 2k for 12months, the repayments on a loan calculator from aib are about 170 a month, which would be covered by one decent enough session, and the rest I could live on/put into my roll.

If for example, I dropped 5/6 buyins and it was obvious that I'm not up to it then I guess the experiment would be over and I'd have to get a job to cover the repayments and what not.

Would I be wrong in thinking that the normal definiton of a bankroll would be what you could afford to lose and have set aside for playing poker? And for that reason borrowing a bankroll is pretty silly? On the other hand I'm a winning playing, and I only want 2k in the account so I can handle the bad spells and keep playing.

I just don't wanna be working in some min wage job when I could be making more in a night playing poker than I'd make in a week in the job.

So what do you reckon? Feel free to talk me out of it.

Lazare

Your sig say's it all tbh.
I dunno though. Are you confident you're good enough, and not going through a spell of good variance?
Seems borderline crazy to me.

edit: you've removed sig;)

shoutman

I don't play cash live in dublin, or drogheda for that matter, but it seems from the threads I read that there is a lot of variance involved as the games are so loose. Would it not be better (if you are playing poker part time to make money) to play online?

Mr. Flibble

Its not the worst thing to do as far as investments go so long as you are certain you have a decent edge over the table & rake and have self control - only you know your game.
A much less risky thing to do would be to save 250 and play with that. If you go broke save and start again. This way you can't lose what you can't afford. Or as shoutman says play on the net, at at a lower level.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

jbravado

To be totally honest I think this is a really bad idea-the whole area of getting a loan to play cards is a very risky area imho.

Also 2000 is nowhare near enough-you could easily lose this over the course of a single weekend let alone week.EASY.In reality 1 2 live games are somewhat bigger than they first appear.

Im also pretty sure the loan aspect would have some impact on your game and even infringe upon your natural style.Your not going to want to commit a huge proportion of your bankroll on some magnificent draw or other if you dont have much left behind.This is all ignoring daily expenses-transport etc tc-what if all your mates are going on a mad one but you dont want to because it will dip into your poker bankroll etc etc.

I also agree with the advice given that playing online to make a weekly profit is a far better option.

Although I dont know you personally I cant help but think that this is a surefire way to lose.You NEED to be able to afford to lose the money you are playing cards with in order to have any chance of winning.

This is just my personal opinion.If you do decide to pursue it I wish you all the best.

wireless54

i say go 4 it mate. 2 grand isnt alot to loose and you pay it back when u get a real job if it doesent work out which im sure it will. just be very discplined and u can easily earn more money than your job.

phantom_lord

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Well mate, from my experience I can say that if you were playing live €1 / 2 PL in the fitz // jackpot // SE and depending on your game to make profit in order to service your Loan and Cover your living expenses you would be plain mad.

My loan payments would be quite low, as would my living exp, I'm a student, and my rent has been paid for the year, so it's just food,travel, and what not I've to pay.

The 2k would be solely for poker, I wouldn't be using it for living on, only the profits of playing, after I've covered the payments on the loan and after putting a little extra away.

The fact I'm playing on borrowed money wouldn't affect my play, but then again it's east to say that.

The fitz game did seem bigger than what I'm used to, and the play more aggressive, but I'm sure I can adjust pretty quickly, the local game I play in seemed very loose and big to me at the time but I quickly got used to it.

Anyway, bigger tanks and loose play should mean bigger profits

phantom_lord

In reality the loans only costing 124yoyos, so the only difference between me saving up for 6+ months, and borrowing it is 124yoyos.

If I lose a big section of the money and I've to pay it back, it's work I would have done to save up the 2k initially anyway, if you get what I mean.

The's no real difference between working to save up the money and losing and borrowing the money and losing at the end of the day.

But I wont lose, so that's a moot point

shoutman

phantom_lord wrote:

Anyway, bigger tanks and loose play should mean bigger profits

Or a few horrendous bad beats early on, leaving you with two thousand euro to pay back and in search of a minimum wage job and a lot of hours.

But hey I am the eternal pessimist, so if you do decide to do it good luck and I hope you rake it in.

---

This is starting to absolutely wreck my head!
Lose –verb (used with object)
1. to come to be without (something in one's possession or care), through accident, theft, etc., so that there is little or no prospect of recovery: I'm sure I've merely misplaced my hat, not lost it.
2. to fail inadvertently to retain (something) in such a way that it cannot be immediately recovered: I just lost a dime under this sofa.

Loose
1. free or released from fastening or attachment: a loose end.
2. free from anything that binds or restrains; unfettered: loose cats prowling around in alleyways at night.
3. uncombined, as a chemical element.
4. not bound together: to wear one's hair loose.
5. not put up in a package or other container: loose mushrooms.
6. available for disposal; unused; unappropriated: loose funds.
7. lacking in reticence or power of restraint: a loose tongue.
8. lax, as the bowels.
9. lacking moral restraint or integrity; notorious for his loose character.
10. sexually promiscuous or immoral; unchaste.
11. not firm, taut, or rigid: a loose tooth; a loose rein.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

phantom_lord

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Best of luck tho - I do hope it works out.

If you see me at a table you'll have to go easy on me, or I wont be eating that week.


It could be an interesting lifestyle tho "If I win this pot it's fillet steak and fine wine all week, if I lose it's bread and water, and dutch gold "


Did I use loose or lose in the wrong place somewhere?

DapperGent

I think the idea is sound in principle but I don't there is a live game around that is small enough for a 2k bankroll. I reckon a cleverer idea would be to take the 2k online and nutpeddle the lower limts 4+ tableing and take occasional shots a bigger games either live or online.

I'm a big believer in taking shots I'm an even bigger believer in not going into a game underfunded on borrowed money with no income. It's hella stupid.

Lafortezza

How sure are you that you can make a steady profit in live games with a 10 buy-in bankroll? How much time can you put into it?

I think you'd be better off trying to get staked by a rich person, get an interest free loan and some kind of payback of profits.

phantom_lord

What bankroll should I have for 1/2?

Lafortezza

phantom_lord wrote:

What bankroll should I have for 1/2?

20 to 30 buy-ins should cover the risk of going busto. Depends on the game though. The long term of 4-tabling online is way shorter than the long term of a live game where you only see 20 hands per hour.

phantom_lord

lafortezza wrote:

How sure are you that you can make a steady profit in live games with a 10 buy-in bankroll? How much time can you put into it?

Pretty sure.

Really as much as I need to. I changed from engineering to business this year, so I've gone from 30hrs of lectures and 60+ hrs of work altogether to doing 12hrs of lectures (which seem like a joke so far), so it feels like I'm doing nothing.

I've late starts and plenty of breaks, so I can comfortably play all night, get a few hours kip in the morning, and then maybe a nap of two during the day.

I think you'd be better off trying to get staked by a rich person, get an interest free loan and some kind of payback of profits.

Hmmm, where to find said rich person... The loan will only cost me 124 or so, getting staked would cost alot more, but it is a less stressful option

ntlbell

You crazy kid!

I think it's a very very very _bad_ idea.

Why not just get a bit of work for a couple of weekends save up a small amount of money and start at smaller stakes.

I often set out little adventures with $5 or $10 to see what I could turn it into and you would be very suprised at how quickly you can turn a small stake into a tidy little bankroll.

I think Culchie has done something recently with $10 hitting various bonuses and moving the winnings around, I was reading someone elses blog here recently who set themselves up a little $10 challenge and quickly turned it into a nice little bank roll.

For you at this age to be getting bank loans to fund your BR is pretty stupid.

Poker becomes a very different game when you're depending on it to eat or wipe your arse in comfort.

Hectorjelly

this is a silly idea; rake , tips, no game selection, really slow dealing etc etc. Play online or dont play at all.

stipey

3) Be running well enough that you don't get beat on a big pot when you are a 60 / 65% : 30 / 35% favorite.

What happens to the other 10% in the 60:30 scenario?

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

masterclass

I agree, silly idea, you gotta play it online.

You may as well take out your 2k loan and put it on red or black on roulette!!!
Borrowing money to play is not a good idea IMO

spectre

2K is not nearly big enough for live 1/2 games. If you're good enough, you should make more consistant money online and grow your bankroll faster. I don't see the harm in trying though, it's not a lot of money and definitely worth a shot.

ChipLdr

I just spent the last 45 mins writing a post explaining my life as a poker pro and why you should not do the same. What made it worse was that when i clicked Submit I got the "Invalid Thread" message and my post was wiped.

So in short DONT DO IT!!!

phantom_lord

If you pressed "back" would it not appear again?

Rnger

i had to get out a loan to pay college fees and the bank needed an invoice from the college for some reason. Just to prove i was actually using the money for college. I'm not sure theyll like your idea all that much. Youll need a garunteur aswel... good luck convincing your parents that you need 2k to play poker

eggie

ChipLdr wrote:

I just spent the last 45 mins writing a post explaining my life as a poker pro and why you should not do the same. What made it worse was that when i clicked Submit I got the "Invalid Thread" message and my post was wiped.

So in short DONT DO IT!!!

Id be interested in hearing this.

phantom_lord

masterclass wrote:

You may as well take out your 2k loan and put it on red or black on roulette!!!

I don't think it's anything close to that.




The thing is, I'm not really turning pro, I'm just gonna be playing a few nights a week, turning a few hundred profit to get me through college.

I really enjoy playing live, and I'm doing pretty well out of it. I've never really played online seriously, nothing more than playing few microlimit cash games and stts.

So the general consensus is that it's a bad idea?

Lafortezza

What's your current total of 'poker money'?

pok3rplaya

I'll mail you on bebo about this.

phantom_lord

pok3rplaya wrote:

I'll mail you on bebo about this.

I was wondering what you were gonna say about this :rolleyes:

bubbleking

it cant hurt dont forget to factor in the buy-in for the weekly college game lots of new fishies and dead money this year*

*i realise after saying this iv jus doomed mself to another year of bubble finishes

pok3rplaya

* Changed my mind, I guess it could be helpful for other people to read this.



Hey, I only saw your post just now this is my response, I have a few points to make.

1) I made this post on a different poker forum yesterday (I think). It's basically a conclusion post from my summer mission, you can read the whole thread if you like (this is the link [url] http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/forum/poker-37635.htm [/url] the graphs are there btw).

*********************************************
Qouting me on a different forum:

I guess this is it.. my summer officially ends in about 2 days and I don't think I'll get to play much poker between now and then so this may as well be my conclusion post. It's been a rough ride full of elation and disappointment, struggles and victories. My total profit for the last 3 and a half months comes to roughly $18,500. That’s including Rakeback and a successful sports bet promotion. Taking into account the fact that I've been on holidays for the last 2 weeks it's reasonable to assume that I made 18.5k in 3 months.

The journey was way tougher then I ever expected. To think now how naive I was when I called this post "Operation 75k" three and a half months ago. I actually really believed that I could make that amount of money it that time frame. I was sitting around doing calculations and coming up with wild expected earn numbers like $100k. Numbers which look crazy now but which seemed within my grasp at the time. It seems my estimations were way off the mark. I think there are two reasons for this:

1) I'm just not as good a player as I thought I was. Not by a long shot. All my estimations before I actually started playing were based on the assumption that I could make 3-4ptBB/100 at the stakes I played. Over my 240,000 hands I actually averaged something like 1.2ptBB/100. I still struggle to figure out why because I’m having so much trouble identifying my leaks. Every 200NL post I see I can put a good line to pretty easily and explain it and I feel that I don't make huge mistakes when I play but still I have trouble pushing my winrate up to the numbers of my respected peers.

2) I vastly underestimated how huge and drawn out the swings of online poker can be. If you look at the centre of my graph you'll see a $9000 downswing in what was roughly 8 days play. Also if you look on a wider spectrum both sides of that peak you'll see that I can justify saying that I had a 170,000 hand breakeven stretch. I just wasn't mentally prepared for swings like this. I had periods when I ran bad, started playing bad, semi-tilted and basically got caught in catch 22 situations of losing money without even really realising. It takes a severely disciplined mind to be able to push through these stressful situations and I just wasn't really ready for it. I believe I an definitely capable of such mental control and I have used it over this summer but I feel I need to be tougher still. I also think I ran **** for 240k hands but I cant justify that statement.

Of course lost of good has come from my experience. My game, mentality and maturity has improved a huge amount in the last 3 months. I feel that I am a far better player now than I ever was before. I've learned more concepts and have a far bigger arsenal of tricks and strategies. Just plain experience has taken my game to a higher state too. You cant fail to learn something new over a quarter of a million hands. I'm far more modest about my game now. I think I really needed a few kicks in the teeth to get the idea of 'pro poker is so easy' out of my head. It's not easy, it's actually one of the most stressful and mentally tough projects I've ever undertaken.

As a word of advice, I'm worried about all the 'I'm going pro' posts I'm seeing around at the moment. I think these people are taking a leap of faith without even coming close to understanding the weight of the responsibility they are taking on. When I took on this task at the start of this summer I scoffed at the idea of a losing month. I was too good to have a losing month. But it happened and it shocked me more then I could have ever thought. Why couldn't a good player have a losing year? I think a lot of people who think they are prepared are in for a fright. If you won’t to do it then please do, for the sake of no regrets, but be careful.

In conclusion. Operation 75k will continue. I will hit that $75,000 mark eventually. I plan to continue improving as a player and working my way up the stakes until I get to the top, wherever that may be. I've made enough money to relax for this college year, play a bit of poker and concentrate on getting a good result in the final year of my Mechanical engineering degree. I still plan to go totally pro after that point, despite the trials of my experience, the tribulations are too alluring and the money is too good. It's been a blast thus far, long may it continue.



Finally I want to take a moment to thank all the people who have contributed to this thread to this point. The people who left comments, the people who supported me when I was struggling and congratulated me when I was winning, even the lurkers who read this thread without me even knowing. Thank you, it helps.

*********************************

I think it's fitting because it just shows how I vastly over estimated my abilities and how my experience is that pro poker is far tougher then most people think. Most people cant comprehend the stress and heartache involved.

2) The fact that you think a €2000 bankroll will be enough to play off emphasises your naievity. A 5 buyin swing is a drop in the ocean when it comes to bankroll. Losing 20 buy-ins in one run is a regular occurance among pro players that I know. The superior fishiness of drogheda/fitz cash game opposition will coushin your downswings to a certain extent but believe me, it is easy to lose 10 buyins. Picture this: 1st hand KK/AA now your down to nine buyins, set over set = 8, some other stuff like cbets getting called, some guy sucks out on you, a bit of tilt and bang you're down to 5. You go home knowing that you have to come back the next day with only 5 buyins, a bruised ego and in the back of your mind you know that if you lose your last 1k you are going to owe a bank 2k having accomplished basically nothing. Think you're going to be on your A game?

Now I know some of you out there are probably thinking "F that, it won't happen to me". Well I remember thinking the same thing about having a losing month. I heard about other players having them and thought "They must be doing something wrong blah blah..." That was until it happened to me. And by losing month I mean 50,000 hands. If you played live 5 nights a week this year how many hands do you think you would play? Say 30 hands/hr and 5 hours a night (unlikely) = 150hands/night or 750hands/week. Going on that you would actually play less then 50,000 hands in your year. Believe me, I'm saying you could actually be on a downswing for the whole year.

3) I really don't mean to offend you with any of this (You can punch me in Fusion on Sat if you like) but I really feel that your poker abilities are lacking alot. I'm basing this opinion on the posts I've seen by you here on boards and conversations I've had with you about poker. You have little knowledge of the concepts and theories that I believe are needed to beat the rake (especially a 10% rake) and in my opinion you have far too much gambol for your own good. I'd have to see alot of your hands to say more but my general feeling is that you are possibly not a winning player. At least I wouldn't be willing to stake a 2k loan on it.



Anyway, those are my thoughts laid out. I really hope you decide against this plan, I think it could really hurt you if you go ahead with it.


EDIT: Have you also considered that you will need a guarantor for this loan (as far as I know).

opr

I presume you have been doing very well in these games up to now ??

Can i ask how much your average profit is per session and what lenght of time you normally play for ? How long have you been playing live cash games ?

I had a 2 month period were i was untouchable in these games the profit i was making was crazy .... a combination of playing well and running very hot.

But believe me this is a really bad idea. You have loan repayments and living expenses that have to met every week. You also have a college course to worry about.

Try losing 4-5 buyins in a night when you have stacked the villian every time and they are hitting one outers and runner runner. Believe me its not just the money involved the mental strain is difficult to take.

As the lads said grinding out at the lower levels online would be much the better option.

Opr

ChipLdr

pok3rplaya wrote:

* Changed my mind, I guess it could be helpful for other people to read this.



Hey, I only saw your post just now this is my response, I have a few points to make.

1) I made this post on a different poker forum yesterday (I think). It's basically a conclusion post from my summer mission, you can read the whole thread if you like (this is the link [url] http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/forum/poker-37635.htm [/url] the graphs are there btw).

*********************************************
Qouting me on a different forum:

I guess this is it.. my summer officially ends in about 2 days and I don't think I'll get to play much poker between now and then so this may as well be my conclusion post. It's been a rough ride full of elation and disappointment, struggles and victories. My total profit for the last 3 and a half months comes to roughly $18,500. That’s including Rakeback and a successful sports bet promotion. Taking into account the fact that I've been on holidays for the last 2 weeks it's reasonable to assume that I made 18.5k in 3 months.

The journey was way tougher then I ever expected. To think now how naive I was when I called this post "Operation 75k" three and a half months ago. I actually really believed that I could make that amount of money it that time frame. I was sitting around doing calculations and coming up with wild expected earn numbers like $100k. Numbers which look crazy now but which seemed within my grasp at the time. It seems my estimations were way off the mark. I think there are two reasons for this:

1) I'm just not as good a player as I thought I was. Not by a long shot. All my estimations before I actually started playing were based on the assumption that I could make 3-4ptBB/100 at the stakes I played. Over my 240,000 hands I actually averaged something like 1.2ptBB/100. I still struggle to figure out why because I’m having so much trouble identifying my leaks. Every 200NL post I see I can put a good line to pretty easily and explain it and I feel that I don't make huge mistakes when I play but still I have trouble pushing my winrate up to the numbers of my respected peers.

2) I vastly underestimated how huge and drawn out the swings of online poker can be. If you look at the centre of my graph you'll see a $9000 downswing in what was roughly 8 days play. Also if you look on a wider spectrum both sides of that peak you'll see that I can justify saying that I had a 170,000 hand breakeven stretch. I just wasn't mentally prepared for swings like this. I had periods when I ran bad, started playing bad, semi-tilted and basically got caught in catch 22 situations of losing money without even really realising. It takes a severely disciplined mind to be able to push through these stressful situations and I just wasn't really ready for it. I believe I an definitely capable of such mental control and I have used it over this summer but I feel I need to be tougher still. I also think I ran **** for 240k hands but I cant justify that statement.

Of course lost of good has come from my experience. My game, mentality and maturity has improved a huge amount in the last 3 months. I feel that I am a far better player now than I ever was before. I've learned more concepts and have a far bigger arsenal of tricks and strategies. Just plain experience has taken my game to a higher state too. You cant fail to learn something new over a quarter of a million hands. I'm far more modest about my game now. I think I really needed a few kicks in the teeth to get the idea of 'pro poker is so easy' out of my head. It's not easy, it's actually one of the most stressful and mentally tough projects I've ever undertaken.

As a word of advice, I'm worried about all the 'I'm going pro' posts I'm seeing around at the moment. I think these people are taking a leap of faith without even coming close to understanding the weight of the responsibility they are taking on. When I took on this task at the start of this summer I scoffed at the idea of a losing month. I was too good to have a losing month. But it happened and it shocked me more then I could have ever thought. Why couldn't a good player have a losing year? I think a lot of people who think they are prepared are in for a fright. If you won’t to do it then please do, for the sake of no regrets, but be careful.

In conclusion. Operation 75k will continue. I will hit that $75,000 mark eventually. I plan to continue improving as a player and working my way up the stakes until I get to the top, wherever that may be. I've made enough money to relax for this college year, play a bit of poker and concentrate on getting a good result in the final year of my Mechanical engineering degree. I still plan to go totally pro after that point, despite the trials of my experience, the tribulations are too alluring and the money is too good. It's been a blast thus far, long may it continue.



Finally I want to take a moment to thank all the people who have contributed to this thread to this point. The people who left comments, the people who supported me when I was struggling and congratulated me when I was winning, even the lurkers who read this thread without me even knowing. Thank you, it helps.

*********************************

I think it's fitting because it just shows how I vastly over estimated my abilities and how my experience is that pro poker is far tougher then most people think. Most people cant comprehend the stress and heartache involved.

2) The fact that you think a €2000 bankroll will be enough to play off emphasises your naievity. A 5 buyin swing is a drop in the ocean when it comes to bankroll. Losing 20 buy-ins in one run is a regular occurance among pro players that I know. The superior fishiness of drogheda/fitz cash game opposition will coushin your downswings to a certain extent but believe me, it is easy to lose 10 buyins. Picture this: 1st hand KK/AA now your down to nine buyins, set over set = 8, some other stuff like cbets getting called, some guy sucks out on you, a bit of tilt and bang you're down to 5. You go home knowing that you have to come back the next day with only 5 buyins, a bruised ego and in the back of your mind you know that if you lose your last 1k you are going to owe a bank 2k having accomplished basically nothing. Think you're going to be on your A game?

Now I know some of you out there are probably thinking "F that, it won't happen to me". Well I remember thinking the same thing about having a losing month. I heard about other players having them and thought "They must be doing something wrong blah blah..." That was until it happened to me. And by losing month I mean 50,000 hands. If you played live 5 nights a week this year how many hands do you think you would play? Say 30 hands/hr and 5 hours a night (unlikely) = 150hands/night or 750hands/week. Going on that you would actually play less then 50,000 hands in your year. Believe me, I'm saying you could actually be on a downswing for the whole year.

3) I really don't mean to offend you with any of this (You can punch me in Fusion on Sat if you like) but I really feel that your poker abilities are lacking alot. I'm basing this opinion on the posts I've seen by you here on boards and conversations I've had with you about poker. You have little knowledge of the concepts and theories that I believe are needed to beat the rake (especially a 10% rake) and in my opinion you have far too much gambol for your own good. I'd have to see alot of your hands to say more but my general feeling is that you are possibly not a winning player. At least I wouldn't be willing to stake a 2k loan on it.



Anyway, those are my thoughts laid out. I really hope you decide against this plan, I think it could really hurt you if you go ahead with it.


EDIT: Have you also considered that you will need a guarantor for this loan (as far as I know).

My original post was similar except I made no where near enough money.In fact I nearly went broke altogether before i pulled my money out just in time for a holiday.

I strongly advise against getting a loan to play poker with. I thought i was a good player as I always seemed to make money playing part time but once I started playing full time thats where it all went wrong.

IMO you cant expect to play just a few nights a week and hope its all dandy.Poker unfortuantely takes up a lot of time and effort especially if you've some 87/56 mega aggressive luckbox sucking out on your Aces with yes.... runner runner 84!!:eek:

jbravado

Chipleader I remember reading your origianl post a while back and only a few days ago was wondering how you were getting on.Sorry to hear it didnt go aswell as you had hoped.

phantom_lord

Ok, I can understand why you have that impression, some of the stuff I’ve talked to you about would make you think I’m a losing player. Overall, I don’t think you’ve a good grasp of my game.

Yes I do have too much gambol in me, no need to argue about that, but it’s not in me at the poker table, not at the cash game anyway. Anyone that has played with me from boards will say that I’m a pretty tight player. I don’t chase draws, I don’t fall in love with hands, I can drop aces, kings, tp no problem and don’t expect a slap on the back for it. I pretty much win a very high percentage of showdowns, I remember after my first two weeks playing those cash games I could count on one hand how many showdowns I’d lost, not cause of running hot or whatever, but because I didn’t get my money in behind.

To me, dropping five buy-ins, playing live, in a row is almost inconceivable, but obviously it’s possible. Yes I’ve had bad nights and bad beats and outdraws, but never a run that would compare to that. In the last couple of months playing cash games I’ve been all-in maybe 4/5 times, and never preflop. I have had nights where I've lost despite not making a mistake, being sick to my stomach of poker and never wanting to play again. At the same time I've had nights where I've looked arcoss the table and realised that I was simply the best player there, that I knew everyone's game and could pretty much outplay them, and tripled up my stack in an hour or so, without coming close to getting all-in and risking my tank.

Yes I had flawed thinking on flush draws, but that was fixed , I don’t really remember having any poker discussions with you, other than on suited aces, and the 75 sooooted utg hand I was telling you about, which I agree with you sounds ridiculous and undefendable, but hey it has a 100% record so far, and is only relevant to about 0.1% of my hands so is pretty irrelevant, I’ll stick by what I said on the suited aces though.

I hope you’re not giving much weight in your judgement based on the tenner games we’ve had after fusion, cause obviously that’s not a true representation of how I play...

I hope if you sat in on a cash game session some night you’d have a different impression of my game. But I dunno, would that even mean anything? If I couldn’t beat that game I would seriously have to consider any future poker playing.

I’m not some luckbox who’s been running well, I’ve had nights of being card dead, hours without a playable hand, I don’t recall any great run of hands, most of my profit comes simply from, “I’ve hit a good hand, I’m gonna bet and your gonna call with a worse hand” or from someone who doesn’t mind paying over the odds to hit their flush. I’m finding that tag abc for the most part, along with other stuff added in beats the game pretty well. I got a pretty good boost in confidence when a player who’s really been kicking ass lately, and I’ve been told plays fulltime, was sitting beside me all night and turned around at the end of the session and basically was pretty impressed with how I played and complimented me, obviously that’s not something I’m gonna go take out a 2k loan on the basis of, but it at least fuels some self-belief I can play.

p.s. you're dead on sat u ****

FastMachine

I don't see how you could make this money playing 1/2 live. Online yeah, but live would be very tough imo for the reasons HJ stated. A 2 day downswing multitabling online which is standard, would work out at probably over 3 weeks if you're part timing live. No thanks.

I started my bankroll with a loan btw, well kinda. I got 500 quid off the bank to bring me up to 1000 for .25/.50. 2K is a different story though, alot of money for a student. I think your best bet would be to work your way up to a decent roll online and then take it from there. I wish I had the opportunity to make cash on poker when I was back in college.

cardshark202

phantom_lord wrote:

Ok, I can understand why you have that impression, some of the stuff I’ve talked to you about would make you think I’m a losing player. Overall, I don’t think you’ve a good grasp of my game.

Yes I do have too much gambol in me, no need to argue about that, but it’s not in me at the poker table, not at the cash game anyway. Anyone that has played with me from boards will say that I’m a pretty tight player. I don’t chase draws, I don’t fall in love with hands, I can drop aces, kings, tp no problem and don’t expect a slap on the back for it. I pretty much win a very high percentage of showdowns, I remember after my first two weeks playing those cash games I could count on one hand how many showdowns I’d lost, not cause of running hot or whatever, but because I didn’t get my money in behind.

To me, dropping five buy-ins, playing live, in a row is almost inconceivable, but obviously it’s possible. Yes I’ve had bad nights and bad beats and outdraws, but never a run that would compare to that. In the last couple of months playing cash games I’ve been all-in maybe 4/5 times, and never preflop. I have had nights where I've lost despite not making a mistake, being sick to my stomach of poker and never wanting to play again. At the same time I've had nights where I've looked arcoss the table and realised that I was simply the best player there, that I knew everyone's game and could pretty much outplay them, and tripled up my stack in an hour or so, without coming close to getting all-in and risking my tank.

Yes I had flawed thinking on flush draws, but that was fixed , I don’t really remember having any poker discussions with you, other than on suited aces, and the 75 sooooted utg hand I was telling you about, which I agree with you sounds ridiculous and undefendable, but hey it has a 100% record so far, and is only relevant to about 0.1% of my hands so is pretty irrelevant, I’ll stick by what I said on the suited aces though.

I hope you’re not giving much weight in your judgement based on the tenner games we’ve had after fusion, cause obviously that’s not a true representation of how I play...

I hope if you sat in on a cash game session some night you’d have a different impression of my game. But I dunno, would that even mean anything? If I couldn’t beat that game I would seriously have to consider any future poker playing.

I’m not some luckbox who’s been running well, I’ve had nights of being card dead, hours without a playable hand, I don’t recall any great run of hands, most of my profit comes simply from, “I’ve hit a good hand, I’m gonna bet and your gonna call with a worse hand” or from someone who doesn’t mind paying over the odds to hit their flush. I’m finding that tag abc for the most part, along with other stuff added in beats the game pretty well. I got a pretty good boost in confidence when a player who’s really been kicking ass lately, and I’ve been told plays fulltime, was sitting beside me all night and turned around at the end of the session and basically was pretty impressed with how I played and complimented me, obviously that’s not something I’m gonna go take out a 2k loan on the basis of, but it at least fuels some self-belief I can play.

p.s. you're dead on sat u ****

I've done almost 1500 in one night in those games and have easily gone on 3k+ downswings, though I play extremely loose and aggro so I generally win or lose a lot of money (winning normally of course ).

Anyway, as others have said, playing online is a better idea.

pok3rplaya

phantom_lord wrote:

p.s. you're dead on sat u ****

I'll explain more later if I'm comprehensible.

phantom_lord

pok3rplaya wrote:

I'll explain more later if I'm comprehensible.

I probably wont be there.

Lafortezza

cardshark202 wrote:

I've done almost 1500 in one night in those games and have easily gone on 3k+ downswings, though I play extremely loose and aggro so I generally win or lose a lot of money (winning normally of course ).

Anyway, as others have said, playing online is a better idea.

I've won 1000 and lost 800 in one night in the fitz, and I'm a weak tight nit.

phantom_lord

lafortezza wrote:

I've won 1000 and lost 800 in one night in the fitz, and I'm a weak tight nit.

Fitz does seem to have far bigger swings than I'm used to. Crazy players there.

Macspower

I'm inclined to agree about the online. You def need more than 2k to play the Dublin cash games. You can have a bad swing of loosing 4/5 buyins in a night/weekend.

what's your opinion of this guys?

I call a buyin for these games 200 euro. I play off a 5k bankroll and withdraw 700 per week living expenses/wage. I've managed to do this pretty consistently for the last year but you do need the comfort buffer of a good few buy in's.

Take this week for example......... A WEEK IN POKER

Fri night.200 buy in second hand AAA guy with big tank pushes me all in on FD. 1 buy in down.
200 buy in KK vs 10/10 . my KK no good
200 buy in. JJJ vs str8
200 buy in. second nuts vs nuts (never plesent)
200 buy in . AK vs A5 flop A72 I bet he pushes i call. turn 5. You know the story.

That was just friday night. Dropped 2 buy in's mon night.

Finally wed night. 1 buy in.. cash out 1500.

thursay night 2 buy in's no bad beats just bad calling by me..... = 0 cashout

Friday night. 1 buy in 800 cash out

Back to the start.......

just my story.....

your bankroll needs to be able to handle this. Mine is not really even big enough but it will have to do.

Mac.

phantom_lord

Macspower wrote:

I'm inclined to agree about the online. You def need more than 2k to play the Dublin cash games. You can have a bad swing of losing 4/5 buyins in a night/weekend.

I might just keep playing at home, and take occasional stabs at dublin cash games, when I can afford it. Those swings are pretty horrible.

Hectorjelly

Playing offline $1 $2 pot limit, the best your expectation is would be around €20 an hour. In practice if you are just a tight player without being brilliant, or if you tilt even a small amount its probably around 10 - 12. Most winners in this ganme would make less than that. Then you have to factor in tips and any other extra expenses. Online you can play 3 tables at once (more if you are capabe) at about twice the speed per hand, so thats 6 times the amount of hands per hour, with less rake and better game selection. Your expectation here would probably be around 30 - 40 $ an hour. You can also use Pokertracker and similar tools to improve your profitability. Anyone seriusly contemplating making a living from a live 12 game should work as a dealer instead. You get paid better, you get paid all the time,you dont come home from work with less than you went with from time to time - and you get to spend long hours at the poker table.

TacT

Personally, I've always enforced one hard and strict rule to adhere to and that is, no borrowing money or playing with other peoples money. I have been offered a loan of €1K previously to give myself a starting roll but refused for my own reasons.

Take €200 or whatever sum you deem appropriate and build your own roll online at the micro limits 3/4 tabling as has been suggested. It's the only way to go and you'll get a lot more satisfaction of having that €2K whenever you hit that mark, however long it may take. Then you may say to yourself, I'm hitting the 1/2 tables with 2 buyins but if they go bye bye you step back down and rebuild again.

Alternatively if you are going to take this loan, do not under any circumstances jump into the 1/2 games. Start out at .50/1 with 20 buyins until you have the same amount of buyins for 1/2, then go for it.

I played for well over a year with 10buyins at .50/1 and it wasn't until I hit the 13 month mark that I blew my roll and was gutted beyond belief. Mixture of several bad beats and tilt combined saw it dissapear in a week. I had to step away from the game for several months and took a 6 and a half week long holiday to put things back into perspective this Summer.

Good luck but be careful and don't under bankroll yourself if you decide to go ahead with this. Relying on poker income alone is damn tough.

pok3rplaya

phantom_lord wrote:

Fitz does seem to have far bigger swings than I'm used to. Crazy players there.

Where do people get this silly notion from? Crazy fishes = less swings. Try playing 400NL Party 6max with 5 good TAGs.

ianmc38

My biggest live win in a 1/2 cash game was 1500, most of which was as a result of one had. My biggest loss is 1k. I can afford to lose the money so it's not a huge thing for me if I lose a buying or 2 in a night. Even the best players would find it hard to make a living in a live 1/2 game. That said, there are a few people I know who regularly clear 1k in a night.

phantom_lord

Macspower wrote:

Fri night.200 buy in second hand AAA guy with big tank pushes me all in on FD. 1 buy in down.
200 buy in KK vs 10/10 . my KK no good
200 buy in. JJJ vs str8
200 buy in. second nuts vs nuts (never plesent)
200 buy in . AK vs A5 flop A72 I bet he pushes i call. turn 5. You know the story.

That was just friday night. Dropped 2 buy in's mon night.

Finally wed night. 1 buy in.. cash out 1500.

thursay night 2 buy in's no bad beats just bad calling by me..... = 0 cashout

Friday night. 1 buy in 800 cash out

I would have thought playing 400NL Party 6max with 5 good TAGs would cause you to have less swings than that.