North Korea to conduct nuclear weapons test

Dave!

http://news.google.ie/news?hl=en&q=north%20korea&btnG=Google+Search&sa=N&tab=wn

"SEOUL (Reuters) - North Korea said on Tuesday it would conduct its first nuclear test, prompting the United States, France and Japan to urge the U.N. Security Council to respond to what Washington called "an unacceptable threat" to world peace.

A statement by the Foreign Ministry of the isolated communist state blamed a U.S. "threat of nuclear war and sanctions" for forcing its hand.

While the United States, France and Japan pressed for a U.N. response, China said the issue should be handled by the six nations conducting talks with Pyongyang.

South Korea heightened its security alert after Pyongyang's announcement. Britain said it would view a test as highly provocative, while Russia urged North Korea to show restraint.

North Korea's relations with the outside world have become even more tense since it test-fired missiles in July.

"The U.S. extreme threat of a nuclear war and sanctions and pressure compel the DPRK (North Korea) to conduct a nuclear test, an essential process for bolstering nuclear deterrent, as a corresponding measure for defence," said the statement carried by North Korea's official KCNA news agency.

It added that it would never use nuclear weapons first and would "do its utmost to realise the denuclearization of the peninsula and give impetus to the world-wide nuclear disarmament and the ultimate elimination of nuclear weapons."

The two Koreas, China, Japan, the United States and Russia have held talks aimed at ending Pyongyang's nuclear weapons program, but North Korea walked out of them a year ago and refuses to return until Washington ends a financial squeeze. "

Drax

Ok, as much as I am against nuclear weapons, I think the US are once again showing their double standards. Who are they to denounce nuclear weaopns when they themselves have them and are the only country in the world to have actually used them against civilians. When Bush included NK in his 'axis of evil', it is no wonder that NK stepped up their arsenal development with the likes of Kim Jong Il at the reigns. And its not only the US that are pressing for action. Yet there are other countries out there with nuclear weapons (Isreal, India), and there is hardly a mention of these and are not seen as 'threats'.
The US government really arent doing themselves any favours in the popularity stakes these days.

Hobbes

I'd say its more posturing tbh.

PH01

If it's not N.Korea kicking up a fuss it's Iran.
Bold children!

banaman

Come to that why do the Brits nad the French get to keep their nukes?
I can understand why Russia, China, Pakistan, N Korea and iran would want to keep them.
But in the case of the Brits and French the US is on their side (allegedly).

More hypocrisy and bully-boy tactics from the worst war criminals on the planet.

Zebra3

What about Israel's nukes? :eek:

North Korea? One of the countries that, if they were nuked back to the stone age, I wouldn't bat an eyelid frankly. I'm sure a lot of Japanese will sleep easier too. A complete nutjob of a country, and while one could say the same about the US, frankly the US are at least my kinda nutjob.

Montgomerie

The actual statement from KCNA..

DPRK Foreign Ministry Clarifies Stand on New Measure to Bolster War Deterrent
Pyongyang, October 3 (KCNA) -- The Foreign Ministry of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea issued the following statement Tuesday solemnly clarifying the DPRK stand on the new measure to be taken by it to bolster its war deterrent for self-defence: The U.S. daily increasing threat of a nuclear war and its vicious sanctions and pressure have caused a grave situation on the Korean Peninsula in which the supreme interests and security of our State are seriously infringed upon and the Korean nation stands at the crossroads of life and death.
The U.S. has become more frantic in its military exercises and arms build-up on the peninsula and in its vicinity for the purpose of launching the second Korean war since it made a de facto "declaration of war" against the DPRK through the recent brigandish adoption of a UNSC resolution.
At the same time it is making desperate efforts to internationalize the sanctions and blockade against the DPRK by leaving no dastardly means and methods untried in a foolish attempt to isolate and stifle it economically and bring down the socialist system chosen by its people themselves.
The present Bush administration has gone the lengths of making ultimatum that it would punish the DPRK if it refuses to yield to the U.S. within the timetable set by it. Under the present situation in which the U.S. moves to isolate and stifle the DPRK have reached the worst phase, going beyond the extremity, the DPRK can no longer remain an on-looker to the developments.
The DPRK has already declared that it would take all necessary countermeasures to defend the sovereignty of the country and the dignity of the nation from the Bush administration's vicious hostile actions.
The DPRK Foreign Ministry is authorized to solemnly declare as follows in connection with the new measure to be taken to bolster the war deterrent for self-defence:
Firstly, the field of scientific research of the DPRK will in the future conduct a nuclear test under the condition where safety is firmly guaranteed.
The DPRK was compelled to pull out of the NPT as the present U.S. administration scrapped the DPRK-U.S. Agreed Framework and seriously threatened the DPRK's sovereignty and right to existence.
The DPRK officially announced that it manufactured up-to-date nuclear weapons after going through transparent legitimate processes to cope with the U.S. escalated threat of a nuclear war and sanctions and pressure.
The already declared possession of nuclear weapons presupposes the nuclear test.
The U.S. extreme threat of a nuclear war and sanctions and pressure compel the DPRK to conduct a nuclear test, an essential process for bolstering nuclear deterrent, as a corresponding measure for defence.
Secondly, the DPRK will never use nuclear weapons first but strictly prohibit any threat of nuclear weapons and nuclear transfer.
A people without reliable war deterrent are bound to meet a tragic death and the sovereignty of their country is bound to be wantonly infringed upon. This is a bitter lesson taught by the bloodshed resulting from the law of the jungle in different parts of the world.
The DPRK's nuclear weapons will serve as reliable war deterrent for protecting the supreme interests of the state and the security of the Korean nation from the U.S. threat of aggression and averting a new war and firmly safeguarding peace and stability on the Korean peninsula under any circumstances.
The DPRK will always sincerely implement its international commitment in the field of nuclear non-proliferation as a responsible nuclear weapons state.
Thirdly, the DPRK will do its utmost to realize the denuclearization of the peninsula and give impetus to the world-wide nuclear disarmament and the ultimate elimination of nuclear weapons.
As the DPRK has been exposed to the U.S. nuclear threat and blackmail over the past more than half a century, it proposed the denuclearization of the peninsula before any others and has since made utmost efforts to that end.
The U.S., however, abused the idea of denuclearization set out by the DPRK for isolating and stifling the ideology and system chosen by its people, while systematically disregarding all its magnanimity and sincerity.
The ultimate goal of the DPRK is not a "denuclearization" to be followed by its unilateral disarmament but one aimed at settling the hostile relations between the DPRK and the U.S. and removing the very source of all nuclear threats from the Korean Peninsula and its vicinity.
There is no change in the principled stand of the DPRK to materialize the denuclearization of the peninsula through dialogue and negotiation.
The DPRK will make positive efforts to denuclearize the peninsula its own way without fail despite all challenges and difficulties.

Kaiser_Sma

Drax wrote:

Ok, as much as I am against nuclear weapons, I think the US are once again showing their double standards. Who are they to denounce nuclear weaopns when they themselves have them

They've had them for along time, and were under extreme pressures when they did get them (weather it was right or not is another matter) america periodically reduces it's nuclear weapons, but how do you expect them to give them up when so many of their enemies continuously threaten to develop them. Even if the other countries don't use them it's much easier for them to fall into even less responsible hands.

and are the only country in the world to have actually used them against civilians.

Thats was along time ago, and before sentiments such as your exsisted.

When Bush included NK in his 'axis of evil', it is no wonder that NK stepped up their arsenal development with the likes of Kim Jong Il at the reigns.

North Korea are constantly attention seeking, do you think the axis of evil fad changed any of that?

And its not only the US that are pressing for action. Yet there are other countries out there with nuclear weapons (Isreal, India), and there is hardly a mention of these and are not seen as 'threats'.

Becasue they are not threats, obviously. Neither of them has any intention of ever attacking the US. Why is it that people want america to have less of a world concern in one part of an argument and unilateral one in another. Any country that isreal is a threat too, has renounsed america on many occasions, why should the US have any intention of protecting them?

The US government really arent doing themselves any favours in the popularity stakes these days.

Thats much is true, but it's amazing how people ignore what a completly foul regime exsists in north korea whenever the united states is mentioned along side it.

Manic Moran

banaman wrote:

But in the case of the Brits and French the US is on their side (allegedly).

The 'allegedly' bit is precisely why the French have them. Back in the DeGaulle days particularly, there was a lot of debate over whether or not the US was dependable enough to use the threat of nuclear force to defend France: If faced with an ultimatum from the East, "Don't get involved, and we won't nuke New York" sort of thing, the French decided it was safer to rely on their own weapons rather than those of someone else. They always did have something of an isolationist streak though, they did pull out of NATO after all.

NTM

constitutionus

cant say i'm surprised. if i was running north Korea and a foreign country led by a christian fundamentalist put me on a list of "evil" countries and then went on to invade and level two of em while eyeing up a third i'd be getting the nukes out too.

factor in I'm the only country that could conceivably target that country with a nuke and take out L.A and you've got a surefire way of preventing them invading ya. posturing for sure.

Victor

Zebra3 wrote:

What about Israel's nukes?

Its OK, If you draw a line (the "Axis of Evil") from Venuzuela to North Korea, through such undesirables as Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, etc. one just manages to miss Israel.

Mali however, are f***ed.

Manic Moran wrote:

They always did have something of an isolationist streak though, they did pull out of NATO after all.

They were always in NATO, just not in the NATO chain of command.

banaman wrote:

Come to that why do the Brits nad the French get to keep their nukes? I can understand why Russia, China, Pakistan, N Korea and iran would want to keep them. But in the case of the Brits and French the US is on their side (allegedly).

lol, but with freedom fries, the French just might need them.

Drax

Kaiser_Sma wrote:

Thats was along time ago, and before sentiments such as your exsisted.

What are you saying exactly? That is was OK because it happened a long time ago?

Kaiser_Sma wrote:

North Korea are constantly attention seeking, do you think the axis of evil fad changed any of that?

Can you give me some examples of this please?

Kaiser_Sma wrote:

Thats much is true, but it's amazing how people ignore what a completly foul regime exsists in north korea whenever the united states is mentioned along side it.

I agree that a foul regime exists but I dont think it is ignored. I am skeptical that human rights in NK is high on the US agenda.

Kaiser_Sma

Drax wrote:

What are you saying exactly? That is was OK because it happened a long time ago?

I never said it was OK, i'm just saying it's complicated. Look at it this way, it's general knowledge now that the use of WMD's is horrible beyond comparison, in those days however they had nothing comparable. If they dropped bombs on a japanese city, people would be happy and secure in their countries continued victory, surely a government that dropped a bomb big enough to win an entire war (more or less) would aquire even more good sentiments from it's people (i realise that it was far more complicated then this). However after people have witnessed such a huge growth in destruction, it frightened and appaled people. It created the fear and hatred of the bomb that insured not only it's survival in huge numbers to this day but also the continued state of none use. If a bomb was never used perhaps people would not be so afraid of them.

Can you give me some examples of this please?

Missles fired over japan and near america, kidnappings, open propaganda, just about any foreign policy or negotiations they've had.

I agree that a foul regime exists but I dont think it is ignored. I am skeptical that human rights in NK is high on the US agenda.

I think it is often ignored by blinkered anti americans, maybe not yourself. As for human rights, you could be right it. However it will become an issue come an invasion, as the interventional party must strive to justify it's presence there.

It's a completly differen't situation to iraq afghanistan or iran, it may well be the case that a starving populous might actually like the arrival of their liberators without violent fundementalisim to cause so much trouble. However the real problem will be how coherent the 3rd largest army in the world will be.

Manic Moran

Kaiser_Sma wrote:

However it will become an issue come an invasion, as the interventional party must strive to justify it's presence there.

Well, technically the country is still in a state of declared war with South Korea and the UN. I wonder what the armistice agreement actually says, and what would break the terms? (Armistice, from M-W: "temporary suspension of hostilities by agreement between the opponents " Note "temporary", though we've been lucky it's been temporarily holding for fifty plus years.).

It's a completly differen't situation to iraq afghanistan or iran, it may well be the case that a starving populous might actually like the arrival of their liberators without violent fundementalisim to cause so much trouble. However the real problem will be how coherent the 3rd largest army in the world will be.

After 60 years of indoctrination, I don't think that they'd be particularly overjoyed to see Americans, or even South Koreans in Pyongyang.

NTM

Hobbes

Well looks like it wasn't a bluff. Nuclear test went off early this morning.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6032525.stm

US detected 3.5-4.2 earthquake in NK around the time it went off.

Gurgle

US White House spokesman Tony Snow said: "We expect the UN Security Council to take immediate actions to respond to this unprovoked act."

We shall write them a severely phrased letter so we shall!

Deleted User wrote:

North Korea? One of the countries that, if they were nuked back to the stone age, I wouldn't bat an eyelid frankly. I'm sure a lot of Japanese will sleep easier too. A complete nutjob of a country

Yes, wouldn't it be nice if there were that many fewer dirty little poor people in the world.
And nice to know those defenceless tree-hugging pacifists in Japan who never harmed nobody would be safe.

From here:

North Korea’s potential nuclear test was equivalent to 550 tons of TNT, a state-run South Korean geological institute said, which would be far smaller than the nuclear bombs dropped on Japan in the Second World War.

I'm no expert on nukes, but isn't 550 tons a bit small?
I was under the impression that it was more difficult to make sub-kiloton nukes than the big ones. This sounds like the kind of tactical weapon the US have been trying to build.

aslantheslayer

Well the world just became a more dangerous place to live in today!

And America let this happen under there noses whilst they were chasing weopens of Mass Destruction in the wrong country.

Time to build our Nuclear Shelters and hide under the tables again!

Hobbes

The more I watch Tony Snow the more of an idiot he is. How can a test be an "unprovoked act". They said they were going to do it and they gave China 30 minutes notice before the test (who in turn warned everyone else).

As for "nuking NK to the stone age". Its not going to happen. Ignoring the countless lives lost in NK they still have the ability to retaliate. You would loose Seoul (10 million people) and quite a few cities in Japan before they took out everything.

I doubt very much SK or Japan would be friends of whoever did such a response.

I also wouldn't be overly worried about this tbh (even though I will be in Seoul next week).

aslantheslayer

America has urged the UN to Act!

WOW!

What the hell are the UN going to do?

Ban them from Trade?

Do we really want to go and threaten a Nuclear power?

I certainly cant think of anything we can do apart from military action. And Noone wants that!

RedPlanet

The fact of the matter is that the existing nuclear powers have not disarmed themselves according to the NPT.
Can't blame anybody else for similarly safeguarding their soveriegnty with nukes.
Pakistan and India are perfect examples of American double standards when it comes to dealing with "rogue" nuclear powers.

aslantheslayer

RedPlanet wrote:

The fact of the matter is that the existing nuclear powers have not disarmed themselves according to the NPT.
Can't blame anybody else for similarly safeguarding their soveriegnty with nukes.
Pakistan and India are perfect examples of American double standards when it comes to dealing with "rogue" nuclear powers.

Pakistan and India do have some sorts of Democracy, and are friends to the west. Both are part of the British Commonwealth and are more in touch with the world and have growing large succesful economys.

Now North Korea?

Dictatorship. War fuelled nation, whom I beleive want the south back?

The Best way to sum up North Korea is "TEAM AMERICA" "F*CK YEA"

RedPlanet

aslantheslayer wrote:

Pakistan and India do have some sorts of Democracy, and are friends to the west. Both are part of the British Commonwealth and are more in touch with the world and have growing large succesful economys.
Now North Korea?
Dictatorship. War fuelled nation, whom I beleive want the south back?

The Best way to sum up North Korea is "TEAM AMERICA" "F*CK YEA"

Pakistan is run by a military dictatorship that came to power in a coup in 1999.

aslantheslayer

RedPlanet wrote:

Pakistan is run by a military dictatorship that came to power in a coup in 1999.

But hardly in the same league as North Korea.

Pakistan is also a friend to the west and the "Fight on Terror"!

Hobbes

aslantheslayer wrote:

Pakistan is also a friend to the west and the "Fight on Terror"!

Strange only a few months ago Pakistan said they would not arrest any Taliban in Pakistan unless they had committed a crime in Pakistan there and OBL is rumoured to be in Pakistan.

[edit] Pakistan only recently came back as part of the Commonwealth

Hobbes

aslantheslayer wrote:

The Best way to sum up North Korea is "TEAM AMERICA" "F*CK YEA"

The best thing the US can do is stay the fuk out of this. Let China, Japan, South Korea handle it.

Frederico

Media Hype Frenzy!!

crybaby

sad to see people in this thread apologising for a regime as rotten as North Korea just because America has something to do with this

its a pity the UN is a joke and that there is nothing anybody can do apart from war to stop them

RedPlanet

Nobody is "apologising" for the regime in NK.
The fact is they've withdrawn (entirely legally) from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and have every right to purse nuclear weapons.

Whereas there exist states that are members of the same treaty yet do not adhere to it's terms.
USA being one.

Nuttzz

Rubbish, no country has a right to nuclear weapons, since the end of the cold war the US and Russia have reduced stocks of their own weapons, it is a shame they cant get rid of them but for countries like NK to develop these weapons while their people starve is a disgrace.

The NK people have a right to a decent life which is much more important then the NK regime having the right to develop nuclear weapons

RedPlanet

Nuttzz wrote:

Rubbish, no country has a right to nuclear weapons

Tough words Nuttzz, not backed up by any international law.
So it's tough luck.
Looks like NK has joined Pakistan, India and Israel in the nuclear club.
With Iran following close behind huh?

aidan24326

It's easy to understand why NK would want nuclear weapons. The US showed Iraq and Afghanistan exactly what can happen to a US enemy who don't posess nukes. This the irony of the US invasion of Iraq, it was done on the (false) premise of Iraq having WMD's. Yet if Iraq actually had nuclear weapons and the capability of deploying them, the Americans and British wouldn't dare set foot in the place.

In any case a 550 ton bomb is a pretty measly effort. By comparison, the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs were 10K and 15K tons, and the US and Russia are known to possess bombs in the 20-25 Megaton range. (The Russians actually tested a 50 Megaton bomb in the late 60's, a monstrous device). On top of this, NK are believed to not have the missile capability to actually deploy these bombs over any great distance, certainly not to the US or Europe. So I wouldn't be too worried about them nuking us any time soon.

Though even relatively small nuclear weapons in the hands of such a deranged regime is undesirable to say the least.

RedPlanet

Fairly good article about it here:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/HJ06Dg01.html

NK have no quarrel with us, nor the rest of europe, they have just one enemy: the United States.

Nuttzz

RedPlanet wrote:

Tough words Nuttzz, not backed up by any international law.
So it's tough luck.
Looks like NK has joined Pakistan, India and Israel in the nuclear club.
With Iran following close behind huh?

International law isnt worth the whatever its written on as the US/UK actions in Iraq showed.

While I cant see them nuking us either what would the economic effect on a ground assualt by the NK on the South and a Nuclear strike on Japan be, we are talking about 2 major economies that are important to us in the west, this would make the 87 crash look like a christmas party and funnily enough China would get a serious economic benefit from this, assuming that they dont get sucked in (as they did the last time) or the US dont start poping nukes at NK.

toiletduck

RedPlanet wrote:

Fairly good article about it here:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/HJ06Dg01.html

hard to believe he's serious

RedPlanet

Nuttzz wrote:

International law isnt worth the whatever its written on as the US/UK actions in Iraq showed.

While I cant see them nuking us either what would the economic effect on a ground assualt by the NK on the South and a Nuclear strike on Japan be, we are talking about 2 major economies that are important to us in the west, this would make the 87 crash look like a christmas party and funnily enough China would get a serious economic benefit from this, assuming that they dont get sucked in (as they did the last time) or the US dont start poping nukes at NK.

NK have a no first strike policy. Not so the US.
Wouldn't that be ironic now, the US that harbinger of "freedom" and "human rights" unleashing hell on another 3rd world country.
But whatabout those starving North Koreans everybody cares so much about?

Nuttzz

RedPlanet wrote:

NK have a no first strike policy.

That makes me much happier now.... thankfully I've never heard of a regime changing its policy....:rolleyes:

Unpossible

Wouldn't this be a good time for Japan to get a few nukes itself? Or at least announce that it will?

I think if Japan announced this then the chinese would be trying to place sanctions on them, Japan can simply claim that it feels threatened by NK and its nukes. China would then either have to come down hard on NK and force/convince it to give up its nuclear ambitions or simply sit back and allow japan to develop nukes with gritted teeth*.


*edit; the chinese gritting their teeth

Manic Moran

Just correcting a few things...

Gurgle wrote:

I'm no expert on nukes, but isn't 550 tons a bit small?

Yes. Estimates on the actual yield are still varying, but in any case, as nukes go, it's pretty small by modern standards.

I was under the impression that it was more difficult to make sub-kiloton nukes than the big ones. This sounds like the kind of tactical weapon the US have been trying to build.

Not really.

1960s Technology: Variable yield, 0.1kt at the smallest setting.

Whereas there exist states that are members of the same treaty yet do not adhere to it's terms.
USA being one.

The NPT does not mandate any timetable for disarmament, it's more of an aspirational deal than anything else. The various big nuclear powers are arguably acting in accordance with Art VI with their current reductions in their arsenals.

NTM

jank

Its a hypocrisy really.

When Pakistan got the nuke they were placed under sanctions but after 9/11 well them and the west are now best buddies.

This will porbably trigger Japan to mobilise some sort of professional Army of its own especially since a more nationalist prime minister came to power recently and he hinted as much. With their technology and a bit of help from the US they could do it in a very short time. Maybe even under a year(Total guess there!). Of course that could raise tentions with china. They still hate each other!

More so maybe the US could sub-contract out the forgotten star wars project out to them. They have been at it so long they still are nowhere near or close.

Maybe those Japanese brains could crack that nut!

At the end of the day its all a big game of chess, with infinate possiblilties and infinate moves. I wonder will this effect the november elections??;)

Hobbes

Manic Moran wrote:

Yes. Estimates on the actual yield are still varying, but in any case, as nukes go, it's pretty small by modern standards.

There are rumours they of just faked the test with conventional TNT. There is a neutrino monitoring station near NK, (around 1,000KM). Haven't seen any report from them that they picked anything up.

bonkey

jank wrote:

This will porbably trigger Japan to mobilise some sort of professional Army of its own especially since a more nationalist prime minister came to power recently and he hinted as much. With their technology and a bit of help from the US they could do it in a very short time. Maybe even under a year(Total guess there!).

I vaguely remember a figure of 30 days being thrown around (perhaps a CIA estimate) for the Japanese were they to go all-out to develop the bomb on their own. I think they were reckoned to be the nation closest to being able to develop without actually having a nuclear program.

Of course that could raise tentions with china. They still hate each other!

It would be a bad idea all round.

For a US ally to go for the bomb wouldn't be good for anyone. It would either make a mockery of the notion that all nuclear development was unacceptable (for non-club-members, that is), or would force a wide chasm in international relations.

More so maybe the US could sub-contract out the forgotten star wars project out to them. They have been at it so long they still are nowhere near or close.

Check out Dubya's new declaration regarding the US space policy. It may be a reaction to the Chinese lasering a spy sattelite (don't think they damaged it, just painted it), but he made some noises that sounded suspiciously close to militarising space.

http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/10/09/1333248&from=rss

I wonder will this effect the november elections??;)

Could do either way. Depends on how they approach it.

Manic Moran

jank wrote:

This will porbably trigger Japan to mobilise some sort of professional Army of its own

This one is beyond me.

They have the third largest defense budget in the world, you think they're manning their fourteen odd divisions with boy scouts?

NTM

Hobbes

Check out Dubya's new declaration regarding the US space policy. It may be a reaction to the Chinese lasering a spy sattelite (don't think they damaged it, just painted it),

Actually they blinded it with the laser.

RedPlanet

A nuclear NK doesn't automatically make a nuclear Japan.
I thought this was a good point, from the article i linked earlier:

The North Korea government of Kim does not care at all whether Japan goes nuclear, or that South Korea and Australia follow suit. In the first place, those countries are practically nuclear-armed because they are under the nuclear umbrella of the US and house American nuclear bases and because Tokyo's military spending is 10 times that of Pyongyang's and Seoul's defense budget is five times that of Pyongyang's. It is too obvious that they are capable of acquiring nuclear weapons at short notice.

The factor that has prevented them from developing their own nuclear weapons is political pressure from the US, not because North Korea was only conventionally armed. The US has insisted that they should be under the nuclear umbrella and buy expensive high-tech weapons from them.

Their becoming nuclear powers will signal that the US is no longer a reliable cop. At long last de-Americanization of the US allies and neutralization of the US in the rest of the world will be set into motion. This is one of the reasons why the Kim administration has every reason to secretly welcome the nuclear arming of junior US allies.

The main enemy to North Korea is the US, the sole surviving superpower in the world. Acquisition of hundreds of nuclear weapons by Japan and South Korea will not have any serious impact on the total balance of nuclear power. Japan and South Korea have too much to lose in a nuclear war with North Korea, while North Korea has little.

It is important to note that the nuclear weapons and long-range means of delivery are not aimed at South Korea and will be common property shared with South Korea under a confederated government.

mike65

Maybe they did'nt actually let off a nuke, just let everyone think they did using conventional explosives. Cheap but effective

Mike.

monosharp

Kaiser_Sma wrote:

They've had them for along time, and were under extreme pressures when they did get them (weather it was right or not is another matter) america periodically reduces it's nuclear weapons, but how do you expect them to give them up when so many of their enemies continuously threaten to develop them. Even if the other countries don't use them it's much easier for them to fall into even less responsible hands.

They've had them for a long time ? Well theres an absolutely pointless argument.

Thats was along time ago, and before sentiments such as your exsisted.

Ah ok. Tell me, if Adolf didn't commit suicide and turned up tomorrow morning hiding out in a flat in Tallaght do you think people would say "Ah sher that happened a long time ago, you fancy a pint adolf ?"

America does and always has done and will continue to do what is in the best interests of America. They don't care about x number of gassed kurd, y number of starving koreans or z number of whatever. Unless of course it affects them in some way.

Theres nothing wrong with the above but don't pretend its anything other then it is.

North Korea are constantly attention seeking, do you think the axis of evil fad changed any of that?

America: Iraq we know you have WMD's, turn them over or we'll kick your ass.
Iraq: We don't have any!!
North Korea: We do!!
America: Iraq we know you have WMD's this is your last warning you sob! we're gonna kick your ass.
Iraq: We DON'T have any you idiots!
North Korea: WE DO!!
America: Right Iraq thats it prepare to be 0wnd!!
.... time passes by .....
America: Ok Iraq maybe you didn't have WMD's afterall. Oh well my bad.
North Korea: *Boom*
America: WTF ??? Hey UN kick those guys asses they have WMD's.

Becasue they are not threats, obviously. Neither of them has any intention of ever attacking the US. Why is it that people want america to have less of a world concern in one part of an argument and unilateral one in another. Any country that isreal is a threat too, has renounsed america on many occasions, why should the US have any intention of protecting them?

Israel are as much a threat to other countries as NK or Iraq ever were.

Tell me why does everything come back to how good a relationship a country has with the US ? Are we on "their" side ? When did we join them ?

Thats much is true, but it's amazing how people ignore what a completly foul regime exsists in north korea whenever the united states is mentioned along side it.

Ah yes the terrible evil regime that exists in NK that we know nothing about because no info is let out of the country.

Would it be more or less evil then the evil regime that exists in Cuba ? A third world country that makes our Health service look like .. well, the joke that it is.

Are the poor starving homeless people in NK treated worse then the poor starving homeless people on the streets of Dublin ? Or are they treated as badly as the poor starving homeless people on the streets of "the greatest country in the world" ?

Oh my god lets free those poor people by putting economic and trade sanctions on NK. Sure we'll probably indirectly kill thousands of poor people and not affect the people in charge at all but what the hell, lets do it anyways :rolleyes:

mike65

Are we on "their" side ? When did we join them ?

Do you want an exact date? Or generally? About the same time the Irish flocked to New York Boston and Chicago in the mid 19th century. Don't let indymedia, or notions of nutrality fool you, we are on 'thier' side.

As for NK regime it makes Castros Cuba look fragrant.

Mike.

Rebeller

Let's call this for what it is: more hypocritical posturing by the corrupt cabal running the US. The United States (and by that I mean the regime and not the everyday joe and jane soaps on the streets of the US) is not concerned by human rights abuses, starving masses, absence of democracy and failure to respect civil liberties and "our" freedoms.

As many other posters here have pointed out, what about all those other nuclear states who fail to respect "human rights", civil liberties etc (e.g Israel, India, Pakistan etc.)? Why is "the world" not shocked and awed by these countries possession of such desctructive, pointless, inhumane devices?

America's outrage is not caused by the mere possession of nuclear weapons. It is caused by a strong form of independent nationalism (however corrupt it may be) outside of the standard globalised, capitalist free market ideal promoted by force by the US. This is about daring to defy the US.

Like the typical school yard bully, the United States insists on its way or the highway. Dissent (even when expressed freely and democratically) is not acceptable. Pursuing an economic model that is not tied in to the corrupt "capitalism for the poor and socialism for the rich" system that prevails in most of the world cannot be accepted under any circumstamces.

All countries targeted by the US for human rights abuses, possession of WMDs all tend to be ruled by strongly nationalistic regimes who have opted out of the US controlled failed economic model.

Let's be serious. We in Ireland have more to fear from the corrupt gombeen men running our cuntry (not mispelled:D )than from the NK nutter or the mad mullahs of iran.

Victor

RedPlanet wrote:

Wouldn't that be ironic now, the US that harbinger of "freedom" and "human rights" unleashing hell on another 3rd world country.

NK is a second world country. :rolleyes:

jank wrote:

More so maybe the US could sub-contract out the forgotten star wars project out to them. They have been at it so long they still are nowhere near or close.

Actually it has progressed.

Frederico

Maybe Bush can weave this into a new fear policy, divert from Iraq for the elections