Quality Dealers

TheDuck32

The thread about the incident involving a dealer in the 4 Aces, about which I have no opinion that I wish to share, got me wondering what you guys think the most important attributes in a good dealer are?

The Duck

PS: been a while but have updated my blog
http://www.duckedagain.blogspot.com/

Daithio

I think the most important thing about a good dealer is that you don't really notice them, so I think it's probably better to point out what's bad about a bad dealer. My pet hate is when a dealer constantly reminds you that it's your go if you are thinking a decision through, it REALLY annoys me. Also dealers that can't do sidepots get on my nerves, or dealers that can do sidepots but don't tell the other players to shut up while they're figuring it out.

HalfBaked

Daithio wrote:

My pet hate is when a dealer constantly reminds you that it's your go if you are thinking a decision through, it REALLY annoys me.

This is definitely the thing that annoys me the most. :mad:

Flushdraw

HalfBaked wrote:

This is definitely the thing that annoys me the most. :mad:

And seems as though most of your decisions do take at least 2 minutes, u have to put up with it more than most........

phantom_lord

There's a dealer where I play that used remind me it was my go and put the clock on me sometimes if I spent more than 20 secs thinking. usually it was when someone had gone all-in :mad:

Flushdraw

phantom_lord wrote:

There's a dealer where I play that used remind me it was my go and put the clock on me sometimes if I spent more than 20 secs thinking. usually it was when someone had gone all-in :mad:

The dealer cant call clock on a player

phantom_lord

Flushdraw wrote:

The dealer cant call clock on a player

Really? Interesting. I kinda wondered about that but never acted on it. It's done fairly often in that place, especially on a fri/sat when there's drunks holding up the game.

HalfBaked

Flushdraw wrote:

And seems as though most of your decisions do take at least 2 minutes, u have to put up with it more than most........

Lots of things to think about Tony;)

Timebreak Down

0-1 mins
Mmmhhh, I wonder what drink I'll order next? Just had a cappacino and a water...think I might get a 7up. Hmmm maybe a hot chocolate...where's the food....

1-1.30 mins
Who's fricken go is it? Been waiting about thirty seconds....**** it's mine!

1.30 - 1.50 mins
Now what has happened, was there a raise...who was it?

1.50 - 1.59 mins
Feck this, I'll just pot it

1.59 - 2.00 mins
"Pot"

NickyOD

I think the biggest problem with dealers in this country is not the dealers themselves but the people who train them badly. Most dealers here are trained by people who aren't good dealers/TDs themselves and aren't qualifed to train people. In most countries being a dealer/croupier is a well respected profession and as such the dealers take a lot of pride in their work. It's a craft, an important service that they provide that should be done to the highest standards. Because of the nature of the job IMO you should be forced to do a structured course to get a licence to become a dealer. Instead we have people showing up for a part time job dealing tournaments in hotels, being shown the basics (badly) about an hour beforehand and then thrown in at the deep end. Ridiculous.

cooker3

Daithio wrote:

I think the most important thing about a good dealer is that you don't really notice them, so I think it's probably better to point out what's bad about a bad dealer. My pet hate is when a dealer constantly reminds you that it's your go if you are thinking a decision through, it REALLY annoys me.

heh, I remember DeVore telling me off for this, I try to only do it the once but there are times when I plain don't know if player realises it is up to him so I have had situations where I spent 5 minutes looking at player who looks like he is thinking hard and then says oh it's up to me and instantly folds.

bubbleking

turning over the only live card the villain has on the river:mad: :eek:

Rnger

it mildly irriatates me when the dealer bangs the table before dealing the next card

Flushdraw

HalfBaked wrote:

Lots of things to think about Tony;)

Timebreak Down

0-1 mins
Mmmhhh, I wonder what drink I'll order next? Just had a cappacino and a water...think I might get a 7up. Hmmm maybe a hot chocolate...where's the food....

1-1.30 mins
Who's fricken go is it? Been waiting about thirty seconds....**** it's mine!

1.30 - 1.50 mins
Now what has happened, was there a raise...who was it?

1.50 - 1.59 mins
Feck this, I'll just pot it

1.59 - 2.00 mins
"Pot"

Lol

Flushdraw

Theres one particular dealer in the fitz that "spins" every card towards you and when its time for the flop he lifts the cards as high as he can and slams them to the table with a vengance! Kinda irritating..

Marq

I expect all dealers to be polite, and for the most part to be quiet unless they can hold a conversation without any detriment to their ability to move the game along quickly and efficiently. I like good technique - fast accurate pitching direct to the player if possible.

For me the most annoying deficiency is a lack of speed. Fast dealers are usually good dealers as far as I am concerned.

kincsem

I don't like dealers who tell me to stop talking when a hand is in play and dealers who tell me to stop saying what cards I had while the hand is in play (Nick last Thursday in the 270 )......Sssshhh

But seriously, that Pokerevents dealer who burns the flop, turn, and river cards at a 60 degree angle. I can see all the burn cards. I told him off once, but he is still doing it.
The same guys says "2000" when you bet "3000". :rolleyes:

Oh yeah, and I like witty dealers, and if they are sarcastic as well that's a bonus.

White Knight

The dealer on sunday ... she was quality

mdwexford

my pet hate is dealers who deal the flop one card at a time
just really annoys me

daithio is right though, the best dealers are the ones you dont notice,
they just keep the game moving fast and efficiently with no problems

ollyk1

NickyOD wrote:

I think the biggest problem with dealers in this country is not the dealers themselves but the people who train them badly. Most dealers here are trained by people who aren't good dealers/TDs themselves and aren't qualifed to train people. In most countries being a dealer/croupier is a well respected profession and as such the dealers take a lot of pride in their work. It's a craft, an important service that they provide that should be done to the highest standards. Because of the nature of the job IMO you should be forced to do a structured course to get a licence to become a dealer. Instead we have people showing up for a part time job dealing tournaments in hotels, being shown the basics (badly) about an hour beforehand and then thrown in at the deep end. Ridiculous.

100% agree. Can't be said often enough.

I spent some time and got trained by Mr Ivory myself and it was well worth the few hours of my time. And I was freerolling on the entertainment provided!!

My personal pet peeve is dealers looking at the important awaited river card before showing it to the player whose tournie life is on the line.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

DeVore

Pet hates:
1. Dealers who dont realise they are there to facilitate the game, not own it.

2. Dealers who allow the players to run the game because they aren't confident enough.

3. Most of the stuff said above (as for looking at a river card before dealing it, auto-slap imho!)

4. Dealers who cant handle and breakdown chips efficently. Nothing annoys me more then seeing someone who is counting a big all in and takes forever about it. Most professional dealers are around chips and handling them so often that this becomes natural but some are annoyingly slow with them.

Pet likes:
1. Dealers who keep the action moving, who indicate the next player to act by some physical action (I usually put my hand on the table with fingers towards the player). Harrassing a player to act isnt the dealer's job; as soon as he is sure the player is aware its his turn, he should shut up and wait...

2. Dealers who do a proper wash, riffle and Slazenger cut. Nothing but *nothing* annoys me more then dealers who fan the cards, then gather them back into a sorted deck, put it face down on the felt and vaguely rub the top card around. Its one of those things that intensely annoys me and if it continues to the point where I can track cards through the deal I'll end up saying something about it. I've done this several times btw!

Most dealers in Ireland are great tbh, far far better then anywhere other then the UK or Vegas. As far as the continent goes, we're spoilt rotten in this country!

DeV.

BigCityBanker

Dealers who comment on the game in hand or comment on players decision to go all in HU only to turn over cards and say "you went all in on that" - obviously I can handle the better dealers who say so sarcastically but when said in a condescending tone it deserves a slap. Jack and Laurent in the SE are 2 of the best dealers in town imo...

In fitz lately and 2 guys go all in post flop - one gut turns a set of tens other guy turns 2 overcards and 4 to a straight... Dealer declares there and then that the set of tens is "the stone cold nuts".......... what happens? oh yes you guessed it - runner runner straight..

5starpool

I get frustrated with dealers who can't count chips properly or quickly, ones who are needlessly petty about things. I also hate slow dealers. I remember one time just after the SE opened I counted 90 seconds every hand for a dealer to finish one hand and start dealing the next. This is not an issue there anymore of course. I don't like dealers who don't pay attention. Ones who can't work out a pot bet correctly, or work out a side pot.

I have pet dislikes about a lot of the dealers in the fitz where I play almost all my poker. Not personal ones as all of them are good craic and decent people, but as dealers there are a few things that irk me which I won't go into.

kinaldo

Dealers who take it upon themselves to suggest a deal, like it had never even occured to me.

Goodluck2me

i hate condecending dealers, slow dealers and ones who comment on hands that have passed/in motion. i also hate dealers who when your looking for change i.e. 4-25s for 100 they insist it goes through them.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: also dealers who discourage talk at the table, gentle unrelated hand banter is NOT bad for the game, and makes it enjoyable it is not the dealers job to tell me or anyone else to stop talkin!dealers who think they run the game when they are playing and you are dealing is quite irritable too.

Likes: dealers who will have a conversation whilsit not affecting their work, (marq and nick iv found very good at this), as are most in the fitz. dealers who can create a friendly and speedy manner at the table. dealers who can get their point across without being condecending.

bohsman

Any trained dealer is taught not to do any of the things mentioned above, if any of them happens you can mention it to the dealer/ not give them your business.

luckyvegas7

Likes : dealers that deal me pocket aces, flop me quads.

Dislikes: dealers that deal me 7-2 on my bb every orbit

Imposter

We had a new dealer here in Linz who kept trying to deal a flop on 4th or 5th street in Stud That was amusing! Interesting hybrid game though Shame they're after changing the tournaments to holdem, holdem, holdem and holdem That stud tourney was good to me!

Another very experienced dealer likes suggesting deals. He's a really good dealer but seems to think he should be running the casino and wants to end the tournaments asap as they make the casino no money.

Another likes his tips and gives you a funny look if he only gets a 1€ tip :rolleyes: Needless to say he only gets 1€ from me ever since

TheDuck32

Interesting responses to this question. Thank you.

I agree with you Nicky about the poor untrained dealers you get in some of the Hotel games, But perhaps sometimes it a case of a bad dealer or no dealer at all. I am not making excuses, its just an unfortunate and annoying fact.

It seem the perfect dealer can
1. deal fast
2. handle chips
3. keeps their opinions to themselves.

The first 2 are qualities that belong to the pro casino dealer, who in my limited experience, are incredibly arrogant and annoying, particularly English dealers. This probably stems from the fact that tipping is not allowed in England and the punter is the enemy.
Even if you get a good dealer from the hotel tournaments and gave him a job in a casino, they would pick up all the bad habit of the pro dealer in no time. This is the fault of the casino management. I been in tournaments being run by a bunch of dealers who were simply shouting around the room to each other to keep the tables balanced and made it completely obvious that they were doing everyone a favour because they should be dealing cash tables and not this crummy tournament.

I personally would prefer a barely competent dealer that is polite and keeps their mouth shut.
The Duck

PS: been a while but have updated my blog
http://www.duckedagain.blogspot.com/

aodea

NickyOD wrote:

I think the biggest problem with dealers in this country is not the dealers themselves but the people who train them badly. Most dealers here are trained by people who aren't good dealers/TDs themselves and aren't qualifed to train people. In most countries being a dealer/croupier is a well respected profession and as such the dealers take a lot of pride in their work. It's a craft, an important service that they provide that should be done to the highest standards. Because of the nature of the job IMO you should be forced to do a structured course to get a licence to become a dealer. Instead we have people showing up for a part time job dealing tournaments in hotels, being shown the basics (badly) about an hour beforehand and then thrown in at the deep end. Ridiculous.

most dealers are young players who love the game. Nobody in this country treats dealers with any respect so why would anybody wish to do this for a living. Getting a licence may be a good idea but then again it would change everything. currently companies struggle to get dealers for tournies and this has a lot to do with how dealers are treated. I personally think dealing is a hard enough job and then you have players moaning at you why would you deal. i have had top irish pros give out to me for dealing them bad cards i find this threating and offensive so how bout people lay off!!!!!!!!

ollyk1

aodea wrote:

most dealers are young players who love the game. Nobody in this country treats dealers with any respect so why would anybody wish to do this for a living. Getting a licence may be a good idea but then again it would change everything. currently companies struggle to get dealers for tournies and this has a lot to do with how dealers are treated. I personally think dealing is a hard enough job and then you have players moaning at you why would you deal. i have had top irish pros give out to me for dealing them bad cards i find this threating and offensive so how bout people lay off!!!!!!!!

I actually felt this thread was quite constructive in that nobody was having a personal go at dealers who haven't been trained properly etc. and were showing some understanding of the plight of undertrained dealers.

A lot of the people who posted on this thread are the players who leave decent tips for dealers and have quite an understanding of things from both sides of the fence. A lot of people with influence in the training and recruitment of dealers read boards nowadays so constructuve criticism like this isn't a bad thing Aodea imho and may lead to sometime being spent agreeing standards and communicating those standards to staff in a number of casinos and poker events.

So called pros abusing dealers over bad cards is a bad joke and one a lot of the more seasoned dealers on this board are well aware of. It says more about the player than anything else andi for one do stand up for the dealer if this happens at a table I'm at. I also tell people to let the dealer do the sidepot and count the chips becasue thats what I'm paying him or her for.

ditpoker

The problem with looking for 100% top drawer trained dealers is that ultimately this will come at a cost to the player. I currently deal for a variety of poker companies and would consider myself to be a decent dealer (by all means let me know what im doing wrong, those of you i have dealt for)... but if I had to get trained up and get a poker dealing license i woudl then charge a premium for the extra quality, i.e you can get an average part time student to deal for 10 euro an hour, or a licensed dealer for 15 euro an hour, the licensed dealers would chareg more otherwise what would the pouint be in getting it?? This would lead to increased reg fee's or less dealer dealt tournaments.

From a dealer im looking for speed and table control and a dealer who will lean out of the way so that seat 9 can get a good look at seat 1 before raising!!!
It'd be interesting to get a thread from dealers about pet hates they have with players at a table...

Marq

I'll work for tips!

phantom_lord

ditpoker wrote:

if I had to get trained up and get a poker dealing license i woudl then charge a premium for the extra quality, i.e you can get an average part time student to deal for 10 euro an hour, or a licensed dealer for 15 euro an hour, the licensed dealers would chareg more otherwise what would the pouint be in getting it?? This would lead to increased reg fee's or less dealer dealt tournaments.

And you might find tight fisted tournament organisers going for the cheap students over the licensed dealers.

It'd be interesting to get a thread from dealers about pet hates they have with players at a table...

That would be an interesting one alright.

DeVore

aodea wrote:

Nobody in this country treats dealers with any respect so why would anybody wish to do this for a living.

Er... I take umbrage with that comment. Mike, Brian and I (that is to say, Greenjokerpoker) take a great deal of pride in trying to up the bar for Irish dealers. We pay a basic minimum if you turn up and arent needed, we dont take anything from the tips (tournie or cash) and we try to accomodate and protect the dealers as best we can. I believe our dealers are happy in their jobs (as far as ANYONE can be happy while at work), and I do think thats a good business move (for us!) and it comes through in the dealers approach to the players and the game.

DeV.

Goodluck2me

ditpoker wrote:

It'd be interesting to get a thread from dealers about pet hates they have with players at a table...

i was thinking th eexact same thing myself, meant to do it a few times... i think i will now...

ditpoker

DeVore wrote:

Er... I take umbrage with that comment. Mike, Brian and I (that is to say, Greenjokerpoker) take a great deal of pride in trying to up the bar for Irish dealers. We pay a basic minimum if you turn up and arent needed, we dont take anything from the tips (tournie or cash) and we try to accomodate and protect the dealers as best we can. I believe our dealers are happy in their jobs (as far as ANYONE can be happy while at work), and I do think thats a good business move (for us!) and it comes through in the dealers approach to the players and the game.

DeV.

i was talking about anto's "no body in this country" comment with him earlier and said it was a bit of a broad statement, oddly having accepted it was a bit far reaching he specifically mentioned GJP and how good they were to dealers... but DeV i'm sure anto will be along to correct it soon, although last i saw him he was falling toward Solas for "just a quick pint"..

reilly110

in the red cow on monday there is a very loose dealer --she doesnt use the cut card to conceal the bottom card seat 4,5,6,7 can see the it --then she has a very weak shuffle and always cuts half the deck so it is very easy to track the base card -and alot of the time that card is involved on the flop

DeVore

I do agree with the general statement that dealers are not well looked after. On several occasions I've been quite close to saying something to floor people/organisers. The problem is that many dealers its just a crappy job to get them through college. The "pro" dealers work in the clubs because thats where they get regular reliable work. The others cant be arsed doing anything "union" oriented because they dont expect to be in the business for long. I think the club dealers are too afraid to introduce the topic of unionisation because they believe there are plenty of young new dealers who will take their jobs if they get "uppity", and they probably are right!

DeV.

MickL

Flushdraw wrote:

Theres one particular dealer in the fitz that "spins" every card towards you and when its time for the flop he lifts the cards as high as he can and slams them to the table with a vengance! Kinda irritating..

Thats me i think lol

fiddlesticks

DeVore wrote:

Er... I take umbrage with that comment. Mike, Brian and I (that is to say, Greenjokerpoker) take a great deal of pride in trying to up the bar for Irish dealers. We pay a basic minimum if you turn up and arent needed, we dont take anything from the tips (tournie or cash) and we try to accomodate and protect the dealers as best we can. I believe our dealers are happy in their jobs (as far as ANYONE can be happy while at work), and I do think thats a good business move (for us!) and it comes through in the dealers approach to the players and the game.

DeV.

Speaking from experience, they are definitely the best poker company i have worked for, by far and away the best!

patmac

I don't like dealers who on a slow night sit in tournaments and win them.:rolleyes:

Goodluck2me

patmac wrote:

I don't like dealers who on a slow night sit in tournaments and win them.:rolleyes:

best part of dealing

MickL

patmac wrote:

I don't like dealers who on a slow night sit in tournaments and win them.:rolleyes:

Its only cause we can read all you fish :D:D

5starpool

MickL wrote:

Its only cause we can read all you fish :D:D

You're lucky you can read at all Mick!!!!

MickL

Dom its not a good idea to abuse some1 that you have to spend a weekend in another country with now is it!! :)

Hectorjelly

I have a soft spot in my heart for dealers; it must be so hard to listen to the same crap every day.

patmac

Hectorjelly wrote:

I have a soft spot in my heart for dealers; it must be so hard to listen to the same crap every day.

Having watched Ross of Pokerevents deal with some of the drunk guys in the early days of our local pub tourney, whatever they are paying him ain't enough.

califano

I find all dealers nowadays to be good some excellent.
There is a very good Russian dealer in the SE but he TILTS me because he doesnt give you one hot second to post your blind. When a hand is over the nano second he begins to wash the cards he taps the table in front of SB and BB to prompt postage and says as he does it "small blind big blind please". Im thinking 'i hope he didnt think i forgot to post my blind, i aint no punk bitch'.

I personally think after the first riffle is a good time to prompt someone to post a blind if it isnt already out.

So i made a point of getting back to my seat early during the break to ask him if he could broaden his timing of promptage but i didnt have the heart and was afraid id do a Larry David and unknowingly overstate the point because i think i do this sometimes!. I will catch him another time.

spectre

rounders123 wrote:

I find all dealers nowadays to be good some excellent.
There is a very good Russian dealer in the SE but he TILTS me because he doesnt give you one hot second to post your blind. When a hand is over the nano second he begins to wash the cards he taps the table in front of SB and BB to prompt postage and says as he does it "small blind big blind please". Im thinking 'i hope he didnt think i forgot to post my blind, i aint no punk bitch'.

I personally think after the first riffle is a good time to prompt someone to post a blind if it isnt already out.

So i made a point of getting back to my seat early during the break to ask him if he could broaden his timing of promptage but i didnt have the heart and was afraid id do a Larry David and unknowingly overstate the point because i think i do this sometimes!. I will catch him another time.

I here you Rounders. This annoys me too but he is VERY fast which more than makes up for this small gripe. He's certainly one of the best dealers in town.

califano

spectre wrote:

I here you Rounders. This annoys me too but he is VERY fast which more than makes up for this small gripe. He's certainly one of the best dealers in town.

Agreed.