Zidane: A 21st Century Portrait at the IFI

patto_chan

Anyone seen this movie?
It follows ZZ throughout a La Liga match.
Has got good reviews in papers but want to hear opinions of anyone who has seen it.

Xavi6

No by dying to see it. Anything to do with the greatest footballer ever is fine by me. It'll help me get over my withdrawl symptoms of not being able to see him play week in week out anymore.

Guy:Incognito

Xavi6 wrote:

Anything to do with the greatest footballer ever is fine by me.

I thought it was about Zidane?

Bateman

Stekelly wrote:

I thought it was about Zidane?

Best player in my lifetime anyway, best player I ever saw in the flesh.

Xavi6

Stekelly wrote:

I thought it was about Zidane?

Exactly. Greatest footballer ever bar none.

ullu

Xavi6 wrote:

Exactly. Greatest footballer ever bar none.

Quite the bold statement.

Xavi6

ullu wrote:

Quite the bold statement.

Indeed it is. Obviously it's just my opinion but he's the best I've ever seen, including all the oldies in videos. For me Pele, Maradona etc just don't have the appeal of Zizou. Maybe it's cause I grew up during his career but either way he was an unbeliveable talent and my all time footballing hero.

ullu

Xavi6 wrote:

Indeed it is. Obviously it's just my opinion but he's the best I've ever seen, including all the oldies in videos. For me Pele, Maradona etc just don't have the appeal of Zizou. Maybe it's cause I grew up during his career but either way he was an unbeliveable talent and my all time footballing hero.

I wouldn't dispute that he's the best player I've seen since I got into football in the late 80s/early 90s but I'd definitely put Maradona above him in terms of being a one man team. I don't think Zidane could ever have had the effect that Maradona did on Napoli for example.

Controversial as this will seem, I think Le Tissier was a better player than Zidane for pure ability and the quality of his goals. That's one thing I'll always wonder, how Le Tissier would have performed on a higher stage... that's going wildly off topic though.

I can't wait to see this though I've heard mixed reports.

MrJoeSoap

ullu wrote:

That's one thing I'll always wonder, how Le Tissier would have performed on a higher stage... that's going wildly off topic though.

Who cares! Le God was Le God! Waaay better than Zizou could ever aspire to be. :D:D

Xavi6

ullu wrote:

Controversial as this will seem, I think Le Tissier was a better player than Zidane for pure ability and the quality of his goals. That's one thing I'll always wonder, how Le Tissier would have performed on a higher stage... that's going wildly off topic though.

:eek: Controversial is right. You've got to be kidding me. Yes Le Tissier was good, but better than Zidane? Gimme a break.

ullu

Xavi6 wrote:

:eek: Controversial is right. You've got to be kidding me. Yes Le Tissier was good, but better than Zidane? Gimme a break.

Imagine Zidane had stayed at Cannes for his entire career and been snubbed Jacquet, Lemerre, Santini and Domenech, you'd probably have never heard of him. That's the situation Le Tissier found himself in for the duration of his career (granted, he could have left Southampton at any point he chose)

Xavi6

ullu wrote:

Imagine Zidane had stayed at Cannes for his entire career and been snubbed Jacquet, Lemerre, Santini and Domenech, you'd probably have never heard of him. That's the situation Le Tissier found himself in for the duration of his career (granted, he could have left Southampton at any point he chose)

You make a compelling and valid argument. However some players are impossible to overlook. Hence Zidane's amazing career that saw him make multi-million pound moves and win the Champoins League, the European Championships and the World Cup.

Le Tissier got stuck in a rut at Southampton. Yes he was a God there but he was never going to achieve any success. Maybe the international managers saw a lack of ambition in his character and that's why he never played properly at that level. Zidane on the other hand oozed ambition and had the ability to match.

Attractive Nun

In response to Le Tissier....

You can't just assume he might have been as good if he had moved. He was a good player, undoubtedly, but nowhere near that good.

ullu

Attractive Nun wrote:

In response to Le Tissier....

You can't just assume he might have been as good if he had moved. He was a good player, undoubtedly, but nowhere near that good.

If you go back to my initial Le Tissier comment, you'll see I was only referring to natural ability and great goals. Without having to watch them again, I can remember those goals he scored against Newcastle, the screamer at Ewood Park, the freekick he flicked up for himself etc and most of them are from over a decade ago. The only Zidane goals I remember vividly are the volley in the CL final and his brace against England. Put it this way, I got far more pleasure from watching Le Tissier at work.

Obviously we can only speculate as to how his career would have turned out had he moved to a team like Man Utd, I never made any sweeping statements that he'd definitely be considered better than Zidane had he done so.

As Xavi6 pointed out, a big difference between the two players was ambition and there's no doubt who'll go down in history as the better player.

Mossy Monk

way to hijack a thread

looking forward to seeing this too. wouldnt think there is a hope of it being shown anywhere near me though

DVD it will have to be

Andrew 83

Went to see it tonight. I was very worried that it'd be terrible but to be honest it was fantastic. I think you have to see it in the cinema though, the size of it and the sounds are completely enthralling, I would guess that it won't be good at all on DVD. In the cinema though it should really be seen. Also, it really shows off the fact that he's a smoker. His movement throughout the game is minimal (he has a very poor first half but very good second half in my view) bar his moments of genius (and one particular bit is genius) and he is very short of breath and needs forever to recover even after momentary bits of action.

gosplan

ullu wrote:

If you go back to my initial Le Tissier comment, you'll see I was only referring to natural ability and great goals. Without having to watch them again, I can remember those goals he scored against Newcastle, the screamer at Ewood Park, the freekick he flicked up for himself etc and most of them are from over a decade ago.

Sorry but this is laughable. You remember those goals as you've probably seen them over and over again and they're talked about constantly on UK TV. Le Tissier did indeed score great goals but that was about it. IMO he was one of the laziest players I can remember playing. Did nothing and then popped up with a screamer.

If Le Tissier applied himself more and joined a bigger club then you may be talking about Cantona level. Never close to Zidane though.

He played less then 10 times for England and never scored. Granted, Venables recieved stick for not picking him but no one else did. Zidane was an automatic choice for France for 12 years. You didn't see the English nation begging Le Tissier to come back when SGE was in charge did you.
Zidane won France one world cup final, then got them to and scored in another. Then headbutted someone just for extra kudos.

So much of it comes down to character as well. Zidane was always a winner, that's why France did so well in the world cups. Le Tissier was always hugely talented but lazy.

Carcharodon

Le Tissier v Zidane :eek: :rolleyes: :eek: :rolleyes: :eek: :rolleyes: :eek:

Why is this even being discussed, what an insult to Zidane

Le Tissier lol

MrJoeSoap

Carcharodon wrote:

Le Tissier v Zidane :eek: :rolleyes: :eek: :rolleyes: :eek: :rolleyes: :eek:

Why is this even being discussed, what an insult to Zidane

Le Tissier lol

Le Tissier is so far superior to any other footballer ever, its just not even funny!

ullu

gosplan wrote:

Sorry but this is laughable. You remember those goals as you've probably seen them over and over again and they're talked about constantly on UK TV. Le Tissier did indeed score great goals but that was about it. IMO he was one of the laziest players I can remember playing. Did nothing and then popped up with a screamer.

If Le Tissier applied himself more and joined a bigger club then you may be talking about Cantona level. Never close to Zidane though.

He played less then 10 times for England and never scored. Granted, Venables recieved stick for not picking him but no one else did. Zidane was an automatic choice for France for 12 years. You didn't see the English nation begging Le Tissier to come back when SGE was in charge did you.
Zidane won France one world cup final, then got them to and scored in another. Then headbutted someone just for extra kudos.

So much of it comes down to character as well. Zidane was always a winner, that's why France did so well in the world cups. Le Tissier was always hugely talented but lazy.

Ok, I've already said gone over this multiple times so let me put it simply and maybe you'll understand.

Zidane achieved more in his career at a higher level with more determination and at least an equal level of skill as Le Tissier. Therefore, Zidane is a better player. I never disputed this but people seem to insist that's what I'm claiming. All I said is that I thought Le Tissier was a naturally more gifted player which is why I brought up the "what if he had gone to..." situation.

I enjoy and remember Le Tissier's goals not because they're constantly shown on TV but because they're among the best goals I've ever seen watching them live. It's the same way as a Liverpool fan that I remember the 3-3 game vs Man Utd at Anfield where we came back from 3-0 down and the 4-3 thriller vs Newcastle in 1996. It's not because these games are constantly shown on TV, it's because they're footballing moments that are special. I can't recall the last time I saw that goal he scored against Blackburn at Ewood Park but I can remember it perfectly. I think you saying that they're "constantly talked about" is an exaggeration.

As for your reference to SGE, Le Tissier was injured for the majority of his first year in charge and retired before the 2002 World Cup so I don't know why you bothered to bring it up.

gosplan wrote:

So much of it comes down to character as well. Zidane was always a winner, that's why France did so well in the world cups

Speaking of the 2002 World Cup....

MrJoeSoap

gosplan wrote:

You remember those goals as you've probably seen them over and over again and they're talked about constantly on UK TV.

Not nearly enough IMO. Occasionally see the two against Newcastle and even less frequently the one against Blackburn but there are sooooo many more that are never shown.

Andrew 83

Has anyone else seen the film other than me? If so what did you think?

KdjaCL

This is a portrait on film, in action and in real time, of one of the greatest players in the history of soccer, Zinédine Zidane.

The film is a unique endeavor midway between the work of a portrait artist and a high action movie for a broad viewing public.

Seventeen synchronized cameras were used, mixing super 35mm and High Definition, each focusing solely on Zinédine Zidane from the first kick of the ball to the final whistle.

This 360 degree perspective along with a sound universe that recreates the environment of the crowd allows us to enter into a multidimensional space leading the spectator to experience the sensations, the psychology and the body of a moving athlete.

Looks good remember on sky one of the commentators mentioned it was going on

game vs malaga finishes 2-1, he was awesome, must have known

kdjac

patto_chan

Isn't d'internet gas craic altogether?

A passionate discussion on the abilities of Matt Le Tissier was the not what I expected when I asked if anyone had seen the Zidane movie.:D

Hope to see it in the next few days so I might be able to post a reply to my own question.

Andrew 83

KdjaCL wrote:

Looks good remember on sky one of the commentators mentioned it was going on

game vs malaga finishes 2-1, he was awesome, must have known

kdjac

It's actually big

a match against Villareal and you don't get to see the final score as he gets sent off near the end. It's 1 all when he goes. As I said, he was pretty anonymous first half but very good second.

ullu

patto_chan wrote:

Isn't d'internet gas craic altogether?

A passionate discussion on the abilities of Matt Le Tissier was the not what I expected when I asked if anyone had seen the Zidane movie.:D

lol

I'm going to see it tomorrow. I wonder if there was an agreement with the film makers beforehand that Zidane would play the whole game due to the production or if they filmed him for a few games and chose one that he played the full 90 minutes for.

KdjaCL

Andrew 83 wrote:

It's actually big

a match against Villareal and you don't get to see the final score as he gets sent off near the end. It's 1 all when he goes. As I said, he was pretty anonymous first half but very good second.

Cannes film festival says it was the game on 23rd april , Reals home game vs Villareal finished

3-3

last season may 7th.

Stupid Cannes website

Presented out of competition and in the running for the Camera d'Or, Zidane, Portrait of the 21st Century plunges the audience into a soccer match, sharing with them the sensations and psychology of an athlete, none other than the renowned player Zinédine Zidane. Seventeen synchronised cameras, combining HD with 35mm were used by directors Douglas Gordon and Philippe Parreno to meet this technical and artistic challenge, shot all at once on April 23, 2005 at the Santiago Bernabeu Stadium.

kdjac

Savman

Le Tissier V Zidane?!?!!?

Le Tiss did work wonders at the Saints but this is ZINEDINE ZIDANE we're talkin about here! Without doubt one of the greatest ever (Maradona prolly edges it...). It is widely known that Le Tiss was both genius and lazy in equal measures. In fact they still joke about it when he's on Soccer Saturday

KdjaCL

Savman wrote:

Le Tissier V Zidane?!?!!?

Le Tiss did work wonders at the Saints but this is ZINEDINE ZIDANE we're talkin about here! Without doubt one of the greatest ever (Maradona prolly edges it...). It is widely known that Le Tiss was both genius and lazy in equal measures. In fact they still joke about it when he's on Soccer Saturday

Le Tiss one club

Zidane Boardeaux (pfft he wishes) actually bordeaux the crap french ones Juve and Real (others not worth mentioning).

1st time i heard of him was when Cantona recomended him to Utd in 93ish and was in papers, Eurosports Eurogoals used to have a goal of the week or Zidanes shot of the week as it became known (they only had tv rights to like 3 leagues) when he moved to Juve he was playing Utd every other season in CL. So as far as on tv goes you would have seen him a good few times a season till the time he retired.


From then on i have to agree with Xavi best player i have seen in my lifetime, luckily we have seen him from Juve onwards and you have seen a genius at every level WC, Euros, CL, La Liga, Serie A , this is a guy who won things for his team and played at the very top.

Sadly Le Tiss we will never know all we do know is that he kept Soton up on his own and trained with England a few times.

kdjac

Andrew 83

KdjaCL wrote:

Cannes film festival says it was the game on 23rd april , Reals home game vs Villareal finished

3-3

last season may 7th.

Stupid Cannes website


kdjac

It was 23rd April 2005 not 2006. Figo is still playing for Real in it.

Andrew 83

ullu wrote:

lol

I'm going to see it tomorrow. I wonder if there was an agreement with the film makers beforehand that Zidane would play the whole game due to the production or if they filmed him for a few games and chose one that he played the full 90 minutes for.

I read an article about it a few months ago when it was out in France and it said they only filmed the one match. They wanted a home game and Barca wasn't possible as there'd be too many other cameras, too much attention etc so they wanted another big club and then chose the game they did.

KdjaCL

Andrew 83 wrote:

It was 23rd April 2005 not 2006. Figo is still playing for Real in it.

ahh right


kdjac

Andrew 83

KdjaCL wrote:

ahh right


kdjac

Easy mistake! I was expecting it to be last season too.

MrJoeSoap

patto_chan wrote:

Isn't d'internet gas craic altogether?

A passionate discussion on the abilities of Matt Le Tissier was the not what I expected when I asked if anyone had seen the Zidane movie.:D

You don't need to ask me twice to hijack a thread with rants about St. Matt's abilities!

Carcharodon

I have kept my local team in the top flight of our district league for the past number of years now and have scored my fair share of spectcular goals, never felt the need to move on to greener pastures but sure i probably would of been great anyway.

I hope one day that i will be compared to Zidane.


In other news, cant wait to see film, haven't heard or read a bad review yet so it must be very enjoyable for soccer fans

ullu

Carcharodon wrote:

I have kept my local team in the top flight of our district league for the past number of years now and have scored my fair share of spectcular goals, never felt the need to move on to greener pastures but sure i probably would of been great anyway.

I hope one day that i will be compared to Zidane.

Congratulations for refusing to read my posts.

Anyone who actually read my points would see what I was trying to say. I'll leave you to incorrectly assume what I meant was this:

Zidane < Le Tissier

Carcharodon

ullu wrote:

Congratulations for refusing to read my posts.

Anyone who actually read my points would see what I was trying to say. I'll leave you to incorrectly assume what I meant was this:

Zidane < Le Tissier

Was only taking the piss, i know what your saying
but
We would be here for a very long time if we were to discuss the what ifs of football....

Savman

ullu wrote:

Congratulations for refusing to read my posts.

Anyone who actually read my points would see what I was trying to say. I'll leave you to incorrectly assume what I meant was this:

Zidane < Le Tissier

ullu wrote:

I think Le Tissier was a better player than Zidane

ullu

Pathetic Savman.

Here's what I wrote in full from my first post.

ullu wrote:

Controversial as this will seem, I think Le Tissier was a better player than Zidane for pure ability and the quality of his goals. That's one thing I'll always wonder, how Le Tissier would have performed on a higher stage... that's going wildly off topic though.

What about my other posts on the topic, were they not clear enough?

ullu

Carcharodon wrote:

We would be here for a very long time if we were to discuss the what ifs of football....

Very true, I'll keep it to a minimum in future!

gosplan

ullu wrote:

Ok, I've already said gone over this multiple times so let me put it simply and maybe you'll understand.

It's cool, you already put it simply....

ullu wrote:

I think Le Tissier was a better player than Zidane for pure ability and the quality of his goals.

and everyone laughed long and loud.

Listen, I'm an Arsenal fan but I wouldn't claim that any of the players I've watched over the last decade are better then Zidane and I know a few were a lot better then Le Tiss.

I do appriciate what you're saying about him being skilled, he was...but you have to realise that everyone bar Saints fans are going to say that Zidane was better in every category. Try to be rational about this.

I mean what was their best finish with this amazing player? 10th??

Does anyone apart from me think that had Zidane been at Southampton...and ONLY Southampton..for let's say 15 years or so... they might have managed better. Maybe he would have played them to a cup final or something.

I'm not going to reply to this thread any further, I appriciate that Le Tiss is an important player to you being Southampton fans but you're really on a losing argument.

In your defence I would say that Le Tiss had an ability to shoot from distance I've rarely seen matched. Those 30 yard looping shots that gave the keepers no chance were really somethinbg very few can do. This however does not mean that Le Tiss had more 'pure ability', just that he had more 'pure ability' in looping 35yards shots. But Jesus, so does Laurent Robert.

MrJoeSoap

If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, wouldn't it be a Merry Christmas?

Le Tissier ftw. Anyone who has a bad word to say about him should be taken to the middle of a field, shot, buried and never talked about again. How dare you even mention this French pretender in the same breath as him. You all disgust me.

gosplan wrote:

and everyone laughed long and loud.

:rolleyes:

ullu

gosplan wrote:

It's cool, you already put it simply....



and everyone laughed long and loud.

Listen, I'm an Arsenal fan but I wouldn't claim that any of the players I've watched over the last decade are better then Zidane and I know a few were a lot better then Le Tiss.

I do appriciate what you're saying about him being skilled, he was...but you have to realise that everyone bar Saints fans are going to say that Zidane was better in every category. Try to be rational about this.

I mean what was their best finish with this amazing player? 10th??

Does anyone apart from me think that had Zidane been at Southampton...and ONLY Southampton..for let's say 15 years or so... they might have managed better. Maybe he would have played them to a cup final or something.

I'm not going to reply to this thread any further, I appriciate that Le Tiss is an important player to you being Southampton fans but you're really on a losing argument.

In your defence I would say that Le Tiss had an ability to shoot from distance I've rarely seen matched. Those 30 yard looping shots that gave the keepers no chance were really somethinbg very few can do. This however does not mean that Le Tiss had more 'pure ability', just that he had more 'pure ability' in looping 35yards shots. But Jesus, so does Laurent Robert.

FFS, I'm not saying he's a better player or that it could even be argued.

Assumption seems to be your problem, assuming I'm a Southampton fan and assuming that because I think Le Tissier had the potential to be the world's best player that he was better than someone who actually did it. Maybe it would be a beneficial exercise for you to post exactly what message you think I was trying to convey and we can all see how accurate you are.

As for your constant referral to looping shots, that's hardly all he was noted for. I'd advise a visit to youtube or some similar site if you think that's the case.

gosplan

ullu wrote:

As for your constant referral to looping shots, that's hardly all he was noted for. I'd advise a visit to youtube or some similar site if you think that's the case.

Damn I wasn't going to post again but you made me.

The reason I refer to this was that this...for me.. is the only thing Le Tiss could do that Zidane couldn't.

You said

ullu wrote:

I think Le Tissier was a better player than Zidane for pure ability

I understand what you mean by this but I would like you to tell me what other ability Le Tiss had that Zidane didn't.
Going round people?? Don't think so, Passing? don't think so.

Please advise what other 'pure ability' he had that was an improvements on ZZ.

gosplan

ullu wrote:

Assumption seems to be your problem, assuming I'm a Southampton fan

Sorry about that, misread your eariler post where you used 'we' refering to Man U vrs Liverpool.

Like I said about the rest. I think I know what you said, you just need to define it better then pure ability.
Attacking, defending, awareness, ball skills, shooting, GOALKEEPING???

ullu

gosplan wrote:

Damn I wasn't going to post again but you made me.

The reason I refer to this was that this...for me.. is the only thing Le Tiss could do that Zidane couldn't.

You said


I understand what you mean by this but I would like you to tell me what other ability Le Tiss had that Zidane didn't.
Going round people?? Don't think so, Passing? don't think so.

Please advise what other 'pure ability' he had that was an improvements on ZZ.

This is becoming an argument about semantics more than anything else which isn't helpful. You even said you understand what I mean. I'm sure you know what I'm trying to say but it's descended into a dispute about the wording. Perhaps pure ability was a poor choice of words but it's a bit late for that now.

I wouldn't dispute Zidane's superior passing ability but Le Tissier was an excellent striker of a dead ball (better than Zidane IMO) and you'd be surprised at how good he was at taking the ball 40-50 yards from goal and taking it past five opponents, doing a one-two on the edge of the box before dispatching it past the keeper. He also has a far better goal scoring ratio than Zidane.

I'm wondering how much you saw of Le Tissier's career if you have to ask what he was better or worse at doing or maybe you're just trying to get me to repeat what I've been saying since this time yesterday!

kinaldo

Looking forward to seeing Zizou on the big screen.

Also, Le Tis is one of my favourite players ever - even if most of his top 10 goals were against the Toon.

Savman

ullu wrote:

He also has a far better goal scoring ratio than Zidane.

Really? Against what quality opposition? Le Tiss scored some great goals against mediocre opposition. I was a massive Le Tissier fan but did he replicate the form on the world stage? I seem to remember the lesser player that is Zidane leading his country to consecutive World Cup & European championships.

gosplan wrote:

veryone laughed long and loud.

I did and presumed everyone was til we realised ullu was trying to be serious :eek:

Pele, Diego Maradona, Zinedine Zidane, Ronaldinho, Matthew Le Tissier...:D:D:D sorry just cant even say it without breaking out in laughter :D

ullu I really cant take you seriously, despite you calling me "pathetic" for whatever reason that was... :rolleyes:

Toodles

ullu

Savman wrote:

Really? Against what quality opposition? Le Tiss scored some great goals against mediocre opposition. I was a massive Le Tissier fan but did he replicate the form on the world stage? I seem to remember the lesser player that is Zidane leading his country to consecutive World Cup & European championships.


I did and presumed everyone was til we realised ullu was trying to be serious :eek:

Pele, Diego Maradona, Zinedine Zidane, Ronaldinho, Matthew Le Tissier...:D:D:D sorry just cant even say it without breaking out in laughter :D

ullu I really cant take you seriously, despite you calling me "pathetic" for whatever reason that was... :rolleyes:

Toodles

lol, I'll do you a favour and not comment on the glaringly cretinous stupidity of this post in the context of what has already been said. Whoops!

1) Le Tissier's goals : So Zidane's goals were all scored against world class defences? Cop on, plenty of Le Tissier's goals were against decent Premiership sides in their day, his last goal was against Arsenal the year they came 2nd in the league and lost the FA Cup final to Liverpool.

Reread this thread, there may be hope for you yet...

MrJoeSoap

ullu wrote:

his last goal was against Arsenal

Without doubt the best goal of all time.

http://www.saintsforever.co.uk/LeTissArsenal.jpg

The last ever game at the Dell takes place on Saturday 19th May 2001 against Arsenal. Matt is on the bench and along with Franny Benali, comes on with 20 minutes remaining. The score is 2-2 as we enter the final minute, a ball into the Arsenal box is controlled by Le Tiss with his back to goal, but he swivels and smacks the ball into the top corner to send the Dell mental. No other player on the planet could have scored that goal at that moment. Le Tiss is mobbed on the pitch after the final whistle as the emotion gets to everyone for one of the best days in the history of Southampton Football Club. It was a fairytale end from a dream of a player and a hero of the city.

eirebhoy

MrJoeSoap wrote:

Without doubt the best goal of all time.

I had to go on youtube to confirm I was thinking about the correct goal. What's so special about his Arsenal goal?