News from Party of the worst kind!

Imposter

http://www.partygaming.com/images/docs/061001_USLegislation2.pdf

Not good!

El Stuntman

Imposter wrote:

Not good!

this semester's course at the Imposter University of Threads:

"understatement; practical uses of"

luckylucky

Although like da rest of u I'm sure I don't want 2 c the end of usa players online, after all on the major sites like party and stars they must contribute well over half the players. There is one potential side benefit though, the times of all the big events on party and stars at the minute suit the americans far better than they do us - something that has really p'd me off at times - I rem even the qualifying times for some european based events were at times that suited americans better! - when europeans become the majority players on these sites then I'm sure the times would adjust to suit us a lot better. Anyway still hoping we don't lose our fish friends from across da pond

Hectorjelly

I feel unwell

El Stuntman

Party shares -55% in one hour on the FTSE this morning

the investment community has already drawn their own conclusions here

"the party is over gentlemen"

Hectorjelly

this is not a thread for humour

Dr_Colossus

This looks bad

Partygaming down 54%
888 Holdings down 37%
NETeller down 58%

Guess it's going to take some time before they find a loophole and a means around this nanny state legislation.
Really hope this doesn't kill the beautiful game and the myriad of loose calling americans online.

Imposter

I can't understand why Party have taken these steps. Surely they should wait and see what happens in the US with regard to what the bank can do and/or are willing to do before banning US players!

shoutman

Thats pretty devastating news, for some of us more then others.

NickyOD, HJ, Eoin and anyone else who predominantly makes there living off playing poker against Americans, BB, UL. But having recently started playing on a site that already doesn't allow Americans to play on it, there is definately plenty of fish in the sea.

Ste05

Well isn't what a lovely Monday morning wake-up that was.

I can't believe they've acted so fast on this.

jimbling

this sucks

spectre

Imposter wrote:

http://www.partygaming.com/images/docs/061001_USLegislation2.pdf

Not good!

I can't view this from work. Can someone paste the text here?

Ste05

Party wrote:

On 30 September 2006, the United States Congress passed The Safe Port Act. That measure also contained certain provisions known as the ‘Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006’ that will affect the processing of payments between US customers and online gaming companies, including PartyGaming, that are publicly traded and licensed and regulated in respected jurisdictions.

The Act is expected to be signed into law by President Bush within the next two weeks. If signed into law, it will immediately make unlawful the receipt by a gambling business of proceeds or monies in connection with unlawful internet gambling. The Act does not clarify the definition of unlawful gambling. However, as the first piece of Federal legislation dealing explicitly with internet gaming, it does make clear that the US government intends to stop the flow of funds from Americans to online gaming operators through criminal sanction. The Act also asserts that, under US law, a wager must be permitted under the laws both of the customer’s place of residence and that of the operator.

After taking extensive legal advice, the Board of PartyGaming Plc has concluded that the new legislation, if signed into law, will make it practically impossible to provide US residents with access to its real money poker and other real money gaming sites. As a result of this development, the Board of PartyGaming has determined that if the President signs the Act into law, the Company will suspend all real money gaming business with US residents, and such suspension will continue indefinitely, subject to clarification of the interpretation and enforcement of US law and the impact on financial institutions of this and other related legislation. Access to PartyGaming's online gaming sites for the Group's US free play customers will be unaffected. Access for all of PartyGaming’s non-US customers will also be unaffected.

The Group’s strategic focus remains on developing its existing markets outside of the US and on developing new markets and products. Should activities in the US be suspended, the Directors will also seek to re-align the Group's cost base to accommodate the changed business environment. However, any such suspension would also result in the Group’s financial performance falling significantly short of consensus forecasts for 2006 and 2007.

Mitch Garber, Chief Executive Officer of PartyGaming, said:

"This development is a significant setback for our company, our shareholders, our players and our industry. While US horse race betting, state lotteries, fantasy contests and certain other online gaming activities have been exclusively protected under the new law, we are disappointed that the popularity and skill of poker in particular have not also been specifically protected. The Board respects the laws of the US Government, and will continue to analyse their applicability, but also continues to believe that a regulatory framework for online gaming, including poker and casino gaming is the only sustainable long term solution.

"We have a substantial gaming business outside the US, one that is highly profitable and growing rapidly on one of the most technologically advanced platforms available. In the first half of 2006 our non-US business generated revenues of $150 million, a 151% increase over the comparable period in theprevious year. Gaming on the internet is already a popular form of entertainment for millions of adults and we will continue to expand our business into new territories, offering fun, responsible and friendly competition in a safe and secure environment for customers around the world. PartyGaming is by far the largest online gaming company in terms of non-US business and liquidity and we intend to focus on and increase our advantage in that area."

A further update will be provided with the Q3 KPIs on 20 October 2006.

Their shares have dropped by 58%!!!!

http://investing.reuters.co.uk/stocks/Quote.aspx?symbol=prty.l&fs=1

All this is only starting to sink in now.... anyone reading the 2+2 Legislation forum, looks like Stars and the rest are pulling out soon too....

Imposter

I like the way those lovely US lawmakers tacked this onto an "anti terrorism" bill that couldn't exactly fail even though the gambling legislation was shot down before!

Democracy at it's finest!

ArmaniJeanss

Horrid news

peeko

Imposter wrote:

I like the way those lovely US lawmakers tacked this onto an "anti terrorism" bill that couldn't exactly fail even though the gambling legislation was shot down before!

Democracy at it's finest!

it's a fcuking disgrace? pure BS, thats not democracy at all. BS

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

cormie

Apparantly it wont actually become law for another 9 months if passed.

ullu

Imposter wrote:

I like the way those lovely US lawmakers tacked this onto an "anti terrorism" bill that couldn't exactly fail even though the gambling legislation was shot down before!

Democracy at it's finest!

I don't think that's true. As far as I know, the bill in question had passed whatever preliminary stages necessary.

ocallagh

Is it possible some sites will go bust over this?

El Stuntman

ocallagh wrote:

Is it possible some sites will go bust over this?

oh yes

get your money out right now

BigDragon

http://www.gambling911.com/Party-Gaming-Poker-Stars-100206.html

okidoki987

What's the best way to get my money out of Pokerstars?
I use a cc to lodge.

peeko

Should we really be taking our money out of our accounts?

Ste05

The big sites will be fine I think, but some of the smaller US skins I'd be worried about, Neteller also seems to be taking a bit of a hit....

Has anyone had time to give the 2+2 Legislation forum a decent read to find out what's happening, I'm too busy in work to get into it. Of all the days for me to be busy.....

5starpool

BigDragon wrote:

http://www.gambling911.com/Party-Gaming-Poker-Stars-100206.html

And the text of this is???? Damn work restrictions.

This is getting ridiculous. What with the demands for more passenger information from airlines and now this, George Orwell would be laughing his head off.

luckylucky

This is slightly off topic but probably doesn't quite warrant a seperate thread

Might be a bit soon to be asking this - but wondering if it will be possible to still play in the USA as long as u r not a US national and ur bank is a european one or do u think the very fact that u r login on from a us i.p. address it would get blocked.

The reason I'm asking this is I got an american friend that I trust enuf to use some of my accounts and he's real worried when I greeted him with this news this morning so it'd be good if I could sort him out with this solution.

ocallagh

I'm buying shares in Party Gaming as soon as they stabilise. Sure they still have a huge market outside the US. 58% seems a bit dramatic... would any of you stock holders agree?

ArmaniJeanss

for 5starpool.

Gambling911.com has learned that PartyPoker and PokerStars will likely be following 888.com suit and be pulling out of the US market.

Sources close to both poker rooms have informed Gambling911 that statements should be issued some time Monday from the two firms.

PartyGaming, fearful of its share price tumbling, is expected to announce that it will focus exclusively on the European and Asian markets as well as Canada.

PokerStars reason for pulling is not known at this time since the company does not trade publicly. News regarding PokerStars came from a number of high level internet gambling executives close to the company though no official confirmation has come from PokerStars management itself during the early morning hours Monday.

Sportingbet is expected to continue operating in the US market despite legislation that pushed through Congress late Friday night which would prohibit US banks from sending payments to online gambling sites.

The banks have almost an entire year to comply, however, the smaller banks have already stated they would not have the necessary resources in place to monitor such transactions.

Sources close to NETeller have suggested that they will be reviewing a contingency plan with the intention of remaining in the US market.

PartyPoker is expected to announce they will be leaving the US market.

Industry executives are telling Gambling911.com that PokerStars plans on exiting the US market


While sounding less and less confident by the day, Bodog.com founder Calvin Ayre says his company has no intentions of making changes in the near future


The third party online cash processor, however, has in the past bowed to pressure from US authorities, specifically in the state of Maryland, which ordered the company to cease doing business with its citizens. Likewise, NETeller does very little advertising in the US as a result of "outside pressures".
Nevertheless, Gambling911.com sources feel relatively confident that NETeller will not pull out of the US market in the immediate future. NETeller has become one of the most popular payment processing methods. The company was started by a colorful happy-go-lucky hippie and transformed into a massive online payment processing empire, the biggest firm of its kind within the internet gambling sector since 2000. FirePay, another online gambling third party payment processor, is likely to leave the US market within the next six months, our source tells us.

A meeting will be held in London this coming Thursday between various payment processors, some of whom have already vowed to join possible legal action.

The internet gambling-friendly jurisdictions of Gibraltar and Antigua are already in the process of reviewing legal means to prevent the restrictions on internet gambling from going into effect. Antigua has already won a landmark case against the US with the World Trade Organization.

Bodog.com Founder Calvin Ayre issued a statement to Gambling911.com late Sunday night: "Bodog is a broad based digital entertainment company that has long ago ceased to be dependent on any one revenue channel. Bodog will continue to monitor things as they unfold but is not expected to make any changes until our study is completed."

London newspapers already began reporting Sunday evening that 888.com, perhaps the most trafficked online casino operation, would be pulling out of the United States market, though it was unclear what percentage of their overall player base consisted of US citizens. Estimates suggest that nearly 80% of PartyGaming's (PartyPoker) customers originate from the United States. PartyPoker is the largest online poker site, several times larger than its next closest rival, PokerStars. Paradise Poker, once the largest, is ranked number 3 and belongs to Sportingbet.

PartyPoker's exit from the US market would ironically make the playing field much more competitive.

In the past, long established offshore gambling companies have found new and innovative ways to get around payment processing issues.

Once reliant almost exclusively on Western Union, offshore sportsbooks were dealt a blow when Western Union began restricting transfers to such establishments in 2000 as a result of political pressure, most evident in the state of Florida. While complying to requests from authorities in the US, there was still plenty of wiggle room afforded to offshore betting companies looking to utilize instant cash transactions.

PayPal, wrought with security issues and complaints from state consumer agencies, entered the online gambling industry in 2001 and quickly departed after legal action was taken against them by the state of New York. NETeller capitalized as a result of this exclusion.

Shares in online gambling companies that trade publicly on the London Stock Exchange were expected to drop substantially Monday. Many companies were expected to release statements during the morning in order to prevent a "blood bath".

The fall out is expected to be substantial but more established "old school" brands, specifically in the sports betting sector, are likely to fare much better than their rivals in the online casino and poker markets. Online casinos which rely almost exclusively on credit card and electronic funds transactions are likely to be devastated as casino players are least likely to find alternative methods of payment.

Another area of concern lies with the casino and poker affiliate community which will be hit hard by the exit of an 888.com, PartyPoker and PokerStars, or even one of these large poker sites. Though it is widely anticipated that others will eventually move in to fill the void. Revenue derived from US players would be cut off in the short term.

It is doubtful that poker sites wishing to take on US players will be shut off completely from doing so via money transfers. Despite efforts to already restrict credit card processing since 2000, much of which has been successful, dozens of banks continue to allow such transactions.

While there are ways around this law (just ask the porn and rifle industries), publicly traded internet gambling firms view US lawmakers actions as prohibition and "unattractive" to the investing community, which in essence would make shares in these companies virtually worthless.

The internet gambling prohibition, a "watered down" version of previous language that falls short of clarifying a 1961 "wire act" and applying that law to gambling on the web, passed through Congress as an attachment to a popular port security bill. While many in the House expressed anger with the online gambling measure appearing on this unrelated bill, the House felt the port bill had to pass.

President Bush is expected to sign the bill into law as early as this Wednesday

gosplan

"I would say that they have a better chance to negotiate for a relaxing of the rule as it relates to a game of skill (poker)"

Just out of curiosity. Do people think this will come down to the skill/gamble thing that was won in court previously by someone in the US? I would have imagined that the reason behind this move would be trying to stem tax evasion in the US or just simply money leaving the economy wihtout the government having anything to show for it?

Well that and the puritanical anti-gambling thing.

El Stuntman

gosplan wrote:

"I would say that they have a better chance to negotiate for a relaxing of the rule as it relates to a game of skill (poker)"

Just out of curiosity. Do people think this will come down to the skill/gamble thing that was won in court previously by someone in the US? I would have imagined that the reason behind this move would be trying to stem tax evasion in the US or just simply money leaving the economy wihtout the government having anything to show for it?

Well that and the puritanical anti-gambling thing.

this has nothing to do with tax avoidance

it's a religious/ideological motivation; "protect our children from the evils of the modern world"
(but continue to sell them semi-automatic weapons and also send them off to kill foreigners)

I think I'd be looking to emigrate if I was American, it's a country that I hugely admire but it's definitely on the wrong track now....

phantom_lord

ocallagh wrote:

I'm buying shares in Party Gaming as soon as they stabilise. Sure they still have a huge market outside the US. 58% seems a bit dramatic... would any of you stock holders agree?

Yep, stocks tend to over react to stuff like this, but I wouldn't put my house on it...

carrigeen

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocallagh
I'm buying shares in Party Gaming as soon as they stabilise. Sure they still have a huge market outside the US. 58% seems a bit dramatic... would any of you stock holders agree?



Yep, stocks tend to over react to stuff like this, but I wouldn't put my house on it...
__________________
"don't look so frightened this is just a passing phase, one of my bad days...."



Dont know is 58% overreacting if 80% of partys base originate in the US. The hope would be they can grow the European / Asian markets which in fairness they have been doing as per their last results.

just on another note following a post above I have a number of accounts in smaller companies as well , would people withdraw these funds (tribeca betfred etc) Im comfortable with party and stars others not too sure.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Sinfonia

what are the big time US pros gonna do? move to Canada?

unbelievable. i've always considered living in America, but the sh1t they be comin out with these days, it's ridiculous.

"The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don’t have to waste your time voting." - Charles Bukowski

phantom_lord

True, buying into a company where it's core business is about to be made illegal would be a tad risky, even if the share is probabley undervalued. But the reason for it being undervalued would be because of the risk... Anyway, that's for another forum.



I wonder if some of the big american players would consider emmigrating if all of this follows through.

gosplan

SumGuy wrote:

"The difference between a democracy and a dictatorship is that in a democracy you vote first and take orders later; in a dictatorship you don’t have to waste your time voting." - Charles Bukowski

My one for the day is:

"Democracy is a device that insures we shall be governed no better than we deserve."
G.B. Shaw

DeadParrot

some insteresting views on fullcontactpoker about all this

jimbling

El Stuntman wrote:

this has nothing to do with tax avoidance

it's a religious/ideological motivation; "protect our children from the evils of the modern world"
(but continue to sell them semi-automatic weapons and also send them off to kill foreigners)

I think I'd be looking to emigrate if I was American, it's a country that I hugely admire but it's definitely on the wrong track now....

think you're wrong here...
Although it may play some part, it has much more to do with the fact that so much American dollers are leaving America.

Flipper

I've got money in both Full Tilt and Pokerstars. Would people advise withdrawing?

Ste05

jimbling wrote:

think you're wrong here...
Although it may play some part, it has much more to do with the fact that so much American dollers are leaving America.

I agree, when you boil it down, the people making the noises are shouting about religion, evils, etc. etc. but in the end it's all about the $000,000's leaving their economy every year....

Sinfonia

jimbling wrote:

Although it may play some part, it has much more to do with the fact that so much American dollers are leaving America.

Surely a lot of money is entering the country at a similar rate from non-US players?
Also I assume internet poker has a whole lot to do with the "poker boom", which has made American poker events hugely popular (WSOP, WPT etc.), which brings more money to the US economy from players, viewers, sponsors etc?

Gholimoli

Ste05 wrote:

I agree, when you boil it down, the people making the noises are shouting about religion, evils, etc. etc. but in the end it's all about the $000,000's leaving their economy every year....

so basically what your saying is this would not have happend if they were any good at poker ?
i mean if the majority of them were winning player and were bringing back the $$$ in to US then this would not happen?
are they really that bad?

Ste05

It's nothing to do with people losing the money, it's the tax on the rake, company profit's, income tax of their employees, stimulation of local economies, etc. etc. etc.

These companies are all based in Non-US countries, Internet Poker is a Billion dollar industry and the US get about 0% of this...

Gholimoli

Ste05 wrote:

It's nothing to do with people losing the money, it's the tax on the rake, these companies being based in foreign countries, etc. etc., Internet Poker is a Billion dollar industry and the US get about 0% of this...

oh i get you.

phantom_lord

Maybe the long term plan is to make $$$ in tax off the sites in exchange for legalising it at some stage.

Sinfonia

"Americans worship money, and we all go to the same church; The church of ATM. Everywhere you look there's a new branch popping up... remind you about how much money you got, and how much money you don't got. And if you got less than twenty dollars the machine won't even talk to you." - Chris Rock

So it is about religion!


and yes, i have spent my morning on Wikiquote

BMcG05

Just to get back to the issue, Ive read a load of articles from bullbearings.co.uk and they seem to imply that the Candian, Asian and European markets will not be affected by this new legislation. They do state that this new move will open up the market to even more competition, which may make things more difficult for gambling companies, even market leaders to adapt (esp. for Party with 78% approx of its revenue coming from the US...they've also lost 58% of their share price today and will lose more when they make the inevitable statement regarding the pull-out from US).

Can anyone confirm 100% that money in accounts in Stars, Party and Full Tilt will remain unaffected for EU citizens?

shoutman

Do people really think that neteller might even have the slightest chance of closing down and taking our money? I seriously doubt this, it is a multi-million dollar company and surely it has markets outside of poker players transferring money from one site to another. Surely you can pay for porn with neteller or something cant you?

And Ste05 if you are about, do you reckon this ruling might put accounts with Poker Carnival in jeopardy?

Fatboydim

I can't see this not going through... Bush will sign. Companies like Party aren't going to react with a knee jerk unless they are very certain it will go through. Then obviously it will be locked into legal wranglings to try and sort out a sollution and regulation. That could take years. Because of that investing in Party shares etc would in my very very humble opinion be a risk. However European based sites that do not rely on American players may well have a boom in the short term. Ladrbokes, Betfair , William Hill etc might blossom as their base is more European. In the short term this means that sites like Party and Stars will have to grow their share of the European market and will offer huge incentives. It may also mean that events like the Irish Open and EPT will grow as Online sites will fall over themselves to provide more seats for these events. Stars are of course heavily investing in Europe both through EPT and APAT. That's the silver lining to a very black cloud.

Fatboydim

BMcG05 wrote:

Can anyone confirm 100% that money in accounts in Stars, Party and Full Tilt will remain unaffected for EU citizens?

Stars have said your money is safe. That's Royal Bank of Scotland. Neteller could be in trouble but only if there is mass panic. The more people that withdraw their money the more likely it is that they will collapse. So bit of a catch 22.