People who spend a fortune on pedigree pets- what the ****???

Nala

This really gets my goat.
Ireland is overrun with unwanted cats and dogs. Our euthanasia rates are horrendous, over 80% of stray dogs are destroyed in pounds because nobody wants them. Most of these dogs find themselves in rescues through no fault of their own. They grew too big (and are handed in/dumped by geniuses who don't realise/care that big-breed puppies grow into big-breed dogs), their owner had a baby and thus the dog became surplus to requirements. Their owner was emigrating. The dog was a Christmas present and the novelty has worn off two weeks later. The owner didn't bother training the dog and now wonders why it won't behave as they see fit. The owner works full time and leaves the dog by itself in the garden, and then decides the dog is nothing but trouble because the poor creature was bored and lonely and barked/dug things up etc just for something to do.
Thousands of dogs are destroyed every year. And the other side of the coin? Thousands of puppies are churned out of puppy mills every year to people who insist on having a purebred. A pedigree seems to be the designer label of the animal world. You pay for the name. And you pay a lot. Even breeds as common and easy to find as Labradors or Yorkshire Terriers start at about €200. Doesn't matter that it's more likely to become sickly than a mixed-breed dog, doesn't matter that the papers it comes with might not even be real, doesn't matter that the owner could be buying completely on impulse because a lot of breeders don't care as long as they make their money.

I see threads on this page week in, week out. "Where can I get a "insert breed here" puppy?". Sometimes the "breed" isn't even a breed. It's one of those ridiculous "designer hybrids" that isn't even a ****ing hybrid, because both its parents are the same species. It's a glorified mongrel. I don't mind the Guide Dogs Association breeding Labradors to Poodles. They do so to cater for blind people with allergies, as Poodles don't shed and thus are less likely to cause problems. I mean "Puggles", "Yorkiepoos", and all those stupid so-called breeds that are bred solely to make money. And people will pay for these dogs, just because of the name.
If everyone, rather than spending hundreds on a purebred puppy, was to adopt an unwanted dog and donate the money they saved to the animal rescue who were kind enough to care for the dog, Ireland would be a much better place for animals.

Ruu_Old

Agree with you 100%. A dog or cat is a friend to me, part of the family not a bloody fashion accessory or something to bring around to win trophies for me. Designer dogs annoy the hell out of me, aren't you getting the health issues (if any) of both breeds of them anyway? A glorified mongrel is all they are.

Nala

My cat was a stray, my neighbour found her, her mother and her littermates beside a canal. She's just your regular black mongrel, no fancy papers or any of that but she's like a little shadow, she follows me everywhere and sleeps by my feet at night and I wouldn't change a thing about her! Some people would say that because she's a mongrel she's not worth the same as their pedigree cat and I'd agree, because to me, she's worth all the money in the world.

Ruu_Old

Thats quite sad, I never see an animal as having a value or price tag. We took in a stray that used to hang around our house, she had 4 kittens. We kept 1 and gave away the others to friends who wanted them. We had to leave them with my folks when moving to America but got another one about a year from the local humane society, they have many beautiful, little kittens begging to be brought home. What a shame people are too caught up in other matters, stupid humans.:(

Lyre61

We breed Siamese cats, and we bought into the breed because of the way the cats behave. Buying a pedigree animal allows you to pick a known quantity on how that animal is going to act to a certain degree and to what size it will end up. We currently have 3 females all very different but all very much Siamese. We also have a beautiful red shorthair moggie that we rescued and two other moggies that have decided to rescue us! They are happy to live outside and only come in to demand their food. Once you take on an animal their monetary value is not important. The sad thing is that people generally take better care of an animal they have paid for.

junkyard

The only reason I go for thoroughbred dogs is that when they die of old age at least I can replace the dog with a similar one. Mongrels tend to be an unknown quantity, you really don't know what your getting as regards temperament etc. I don't mean to sound clinical, I really do love my dogs. I've had strays in the past and I wouldn't have a problem if one appealed to me. I've rescued a lot of strays over the years too.:)

doctor evil

I don`t think you can compare puppy mills to proper pedigree breeders who will insist on a home cheque and are medically up to date.

Puppy mills are for the stupid and full of pocket.

Carcharodon

Very narrow minded and self rightous views in my opinion.
Its not the person that bought the pure breeds fault that there are lots of unwanted dogs in Ireland.
We are all entitled to a choice and as long as these people treat their dogs with due care, then its not up to anyone else to judge them.

Sure if we were to take this view in all aspects of life, we would all be adopting children from all the overcrowded orphanages in the world, instead of having our own children....

We all know puppy mills are a disgrace and a unwanted dogs are as entitled to a home as any other but if someone wants to spend their money on a dog of their choice, its fine as long as they treat it the way it deserves

Chuchu

While our last dog was a rescued dog (and it was indeed such a rewarding experience giving him a home and sharing our lives with his second life!) I grew up with pedigree dogs, long haired chihuahuas. The initial decision by my parents to get these dogs, before I was even born, was a very well thought out one. They were both from the country and were used to working dogs. Having moved to the city they missed their four legged friends but thought that not having enough space meant that they should get a smaller dog and found out that the chihuahua was the smallest breed. These very loyal and gentle dogs were perfect for our home and lifestyle and they were NEVER a problem when either myself or my brother were young contrary to popular belief. In those days no one had ever even heard of them! Sadly Paris Hilton and the likes have now encouraged the mass breeding of these very delicate dogs with distinctive personalities... breeders need to be vetted as much as new home do... while I agree 99% with the OP's points (esp having given a home to an initially very disturbed dog that we got from the pound) my main point here is don't paint everyone with the same brush, genuine dog lovers are just that, irrespecitve of whether they have a pedigree breed or not.

Nala

Carcharodon wrote:

Its not the person that bought the pure breeds fault that there are lots of unwanted dogs in Ireland.

It often is when that pure breed "got too big" and needs a new home.

Lyre61 wrote:

We breed Siamese cats, and we bought into the breed because of the way the cats behave. Buying a pedigree animal allows you to pick a known quantity on how that animal is going to act to a certain degree and to what size it will end up.

It's a cat. It's not going to get any bigger than like a foot tall.

Also, "wanting to know what it's temperment will be like" is rubbish. The way an animal behaves depends on how you treat it. All animals are different. A so-called gentle breed like a Golden Retriever will be much more aggressive than a so-called guarding breed like a Dobermann if it's been brought up to behave as such.

Pipp

Im sorry but who are you to tell me that I was wrong when I purchased my two labrador pedigree pups? This really gets my goat. Its like youre insinuating that people who buy pedigree animals arent as good as those who choose to take in a rescue from a pound. I agree that the level of euthanasia is terrible, and I agree that there are people out there who buy dogs and cats on a whim and then decide to give them to a pound. However, not everyone is like that, and Id like to point out that whether the animal is pidigree or mongrel is irrelevant. Some people just shouldnt have pets but its not up to you, or I to make that decision.
In my case I would have taken a rescue dog, and believe me if I had room I would have a lot more dogs but at the moment my two dogs are enough to look after, and the reason I got two labs is because Ive always wanted to have them, and when I finally got to a point where I could take them on and look after them properly I bought two straight away.
Your comment on people that buy pups and give them away when babies arrive certainly wont apply to me. My dogs are my babies and we go through great pains to look after them, make sure they arent alone for too long etc.
So, I guess my point is that just because someone chooses to buy prdigree doesnt make them any less of a good pet owner than someone who goes to a pound and takes some poor doggie/cat home that noone else wanted.
In the future I will do that also, but for now I am happy with my pedigree babies and I dont appreciate being judged for it.

Carcharodon

Nala wrote:

It often is when that pure breed "got too big" and needs a new home..

who are you quoting here, thats an idiotic statement to make, do dogs in shelters not grow or something! whats to stop their new owners from saying that they "got too big" or is it just pure bred owners that do this??
A bit judgemental, are we ??

Nala wrote:

Also, "wanting to know what it's temperment will be like" is rubbish. The way an animal behaves depends on how you treat it. All animals are different. .

Exactly, and who are you to say people should run to their nearest shelter when all animals are different and they might not find the suitable dog for them in a shelter.

And yes the way a animal behaves does depend on how you treat it and we can also state that wheheter a animal goes in a shelter or not depends on the person buying it not the dog!

SuzyS1972

I work in rescue and have no problems at all with people buying dogs - it's your own choice

What does sting me is the horror stories I have heard of people buying puppies from puppy farms and NOT doing their research.
Not asking any questions and habding over hundreds of euro for a dog that has prob not been vaccinated - the poor mother bred to death and the papers that are always " to follow in the post "

I think that def too many dogs are being bred in this country - pure breeds and mongrels and there are not enough homes to go round.

Also I am seeing a lot of little terriers ( particularly westies and yorkies ) coming into rescue lately too as people are not reading up on the breeds and their temperaments and when the terrier is stubborn they can't cope with it. Also the westies proving to be costly when they are badly bred and suffer skin allergies and ear infections etc.

That said a lot of people that hand in dogs for being " wild " are the people who have never been to training classes - make the dog sleep out the back so in reality they are getting little or no formal training at all - then people are cheesed off with the dog and hand it in.

Dyr

Oh dear, did some over righteous their self today?? :rolleyes:

iguana

Nala wrote:

Also, "wanting to know what it's temperment will be like" is rubbish. The way an animal behaves depends on how you treat it. All animals are different. A so-called gentle breed like a Golden Retriever will be much more aggressive than a so-called guarding breed like a Dobermann if it's been brought up to behave as such.

Obviously nurture plays a huge part in a dogs tempermant, but it is a fact that dogs have been bred over centuries in order to develop certain traits and reduce others. That is why you will not see a terrier rounding up sheep on a farm. (though I believe there may be a plucky pig at farmer hoggets:D ).

My family has had border collies for 17 years and each one that we got has displayed an enthusiasm for rounding up fluffy white creatures. (Rabbits, chickens and Westies) despite never having been on a farm. Because these instincts are so deeply inbeded in their make-up. We also had a staffie once, who we rescued, who loved to chomp things and while mostly he was a sweetheart he did have aggresive tendancies which none of our other dogs ever displayed. My grandmother had a terrier who used to hunt my dad's chickens, and none of our other dogs ever did.

When I picked my pups recently I would have loved to have gotten border collies. A dog which as bred for it's intelligence rather than looks, is believed to be the smartest dog, but also the most energetic and demanding. There are also many in need of rescuing as many owners can't handle their energy. Yet I knew that it would not be fair on a collie to live with me as I do not have quite as much time for them as they need almost constant stimulation and tasks.

Instead I researched different breeds and chose a dog which was a combination of the intelligence and energy I love in collies but would be easier for me to handle. I was looking for 2 medium sized dogs, such as a springer or a collie cross. I looked in all my local rescues, but there was nothing suitable, any mongrels were yorkie/jack russel crosses and I like neither dog and there were a huge amount of staffies. And they charge £150 per dog, which seems extorionate.

Then I found a couple online who had a couple of male Springer pups, which is a breed I know well and I spent some time thinking about it. I discussed it with my husband and my parents. We concluded that they had all the characteristics I was looking for but would be just that bit less needy than border collies, so I decided to buy them.

Yes they are pedigree and come with papers, kc registration and a family tree back five generations of award winning dogs, but they were cheaper than rescue dogs*. But that has nothing to do with why I chose them. Although the family tree and kc registration are nice as they add to my knowledge that these dogs come from families rather than mills. I also met their mother, who was incredibly upset when she realised we were taking her pups. (I felt like a monster.)

People seeking a new pet should first decide what they are looking for in a pet, ie, big/small, energetic/lap-dog, indoor/outdoor, friendly/guard-dog. And then figure out what they can offer, ie, time, garden size, nearby areas for walks, children to play with. Then they should work out which dog is best for them and look for that kind. If they can get a dog in a rescue great, but blindly finding a rescue dog that is not right for you is as stupid as buying a breed that isn't right for you.

*This is in the UK, I'm aware that there are far more unwanted dogs in Ireland.

SuzyS1972

£150 is mad
Yet I adopted my 1st doggie ever from battersea dogs home about 10 years ago and it was £75

i suppose it cost them far more than that to take him in and vaccinate him , neuter him and chip him too - he had kennell cough too so in hindsight he was a great bargain - a royal pain in the arse but a magic little fella all the same
He's still going strong.
I have been so lucky to find 3 of the most wonderful little terrier mixes in rescues.

I never really fell for any particular breed so they suit me just fine.

I think you are so right in what you are saying.

A lot of people just assume that a pure breed dog won't be any trouble etc but I really do beleive that any breed / mongrel will shine if treated -properly from the start and trained at a proper reward based obedience school
A lot of what you get out is what you put in !!!!!!

But yes collies and labradors are wall to wall here in rescues and pounds

Nala

Pipp wrote:

Im sorry but who are you to tell me that I was wrong when I purchased my two labrador pedigree pups?... the reason I got two labs is because Ive always wanted to have them, and when I finally got to a point where I could take them on and look after them properly I bought two straight away. I am happy with my pedigree babies

Pounds and shelters are full of Labradors/Labrador mixes, so yes I do think it is wrong that you chose to buy two "pedigree babies" instead.

Carcharodon wrote:

who are you quoting here, thats an idiotic statement to make, do dogs in shelters not grow or something! whats to stop their new owners from saying that they "got too big" or is it just pure bred owners that do this??
A bit judgemental, are we ??

Yes it is an idiotic statement, and even more idiotic when it comes from people that spend a lot of money on a particular breed but don't bother to realise that the puppy will grow up.

iguana

SuzyS1972 wrote:

£150 is mad
Yet I adopted my 1st doggie ever from battersea dogs home about 10 years ago and it was £75.

Dogs here seem to be very expensive. I saw adds for mongrel puppies for £295. Staffies are really popular at the moment and they cost £500-700 a pup.

I know that dog rescues have costs, but many also do other types of fundraising, Battersea for example gets a huge amount of other funding. So charging large prices for dogs isn't realy justified. There are probably thousands of people who would be great dog owners but can't afford £150 for a dog.

Carcharodon

Nala wrote:

Yes it is an idiotic statement, and even more idiotic when it comes from people that spend a lot of money on a particular breed but don't bother to realise that the puppy will grow up.

Thats a sweeping generalisation of pure breed owners if there ever was one !

Your statement applies to all dog owners that "dont realise that the puppy will grow" including those that own mongrels and "pedigree babies"

Its not a sin to pay 500 euro for a dog as long as they are treated right for the rest of their life.
A couple of hundred euro is not that much to some people, in that they get the dog they want and can fully commit to the dog for the rest of its life

iguana

Carcharodon wrote:

Your statement applies to all dog owners that "dont realise that the puppy will grow" including those that own mongrels and "pedigree babies"

And in fact if you know the dogs breed you have a pretty good idea in advance how big it will get. With a mongrel puppy, for all the owner knows it has some Great Dane in it and will be huge. Not that I'm saying it's wrong to get a mongrel, but you need to get a little perspective.

Nala

Carcharodon wrote:

Your statement applies to all dog owners that "dont realise that the puppy will grow" including those that own mongrels and "pedigree babies"

No it doesn't. My statement applies to "people who spend a lot of money on a particular breed". That does not include mongrels. Being mongrels, they are a mixture of breeds.
Read my post.

junkyard

If you have an opinion on something Nala, fair enough but I don't think you have any right to come on here ramming them down peoples throat weather we like it or not and calling anyone who doesn't agree with you an idiot. I can appreciate your concern for dogs in general but to be fair your not going to get much support with your antics.

Our man in Havana

People will always buy the dog they want - most often people who spend €500 on a dog will vaccinate, microchip & spay or neuture. Its the people who have dogs & let them run wild that cause the over population. My local farmer will spend hundreds on his horses but will not spay his bitch - he drowns her puppies! No matter what we say.

I have a pedigree westie & a pedigree rotti pup - but I also have 9 other mutts that have ended up on the doorstep.

The same with cats some people want a certain look - a norwegian forest cat is a huge cat compaired to a smaller cat - siamese are a slender cat, persians have a differnt face shape - all these breeds have differnt personality traits. Not everyone buys a certain breed cause of fashion & some people will do their homework.

hadook

My Mao kitten was found in a plastic bag in a bin in Blanchardstown with such severe cat flu that she lost an eye to it. Her favourite playmate is Minto - the Devon Rex. In reality I've paid more for Mao in 3 short months in vet & specialist care than Minto has ever cost. Doesn't mean I love either of them more than the other.

I don't see anything wrong with someone spending hundreds of euro on a well bred pup from a responsible breeder. It costs a lot of money to breed a dog properly - from the special nutritional needs of the bitch to the vet care both before, during and after the pregnancy etc. The socialisation of those puppies "costs" nothing but is an incredibly important part of their early life too. If you've ever visited a good cat breeder you'd be amazed at the amount of work needed to raise a well socialised healthy litter of kittens.

Similarly I don't see anything wrong with someone going to a rescue and bringing home a dog or cat.

I do see something wrong with buying a puppy or kitten from a backyard or otherwise bad breeder though. We should be using our power as consumers to force people to breed responsibly if we do buy a pedigree pup or kitten.

Strokesfan

I think you should take your issue to the Irish Kennel Club if you are against pedigree dogs. People who fail to take care of dogs/ give them up/ dump them in pounds etc dump not only mongrels but all breeds of dogs and those people come from all walks of life.
I think that it's very small minded to label so many people who choose to buy their dogs. Isn't life about choices or are we living in a dictatorship?
There are millions of people who love their dogs regardless of breed.

kerrymaid

junkyard wrote:

If you have an opinion on something Nala, fair enough but I don't think you have any right to come on here ramming them down peoples throat weather we like it or not and calling anyone who doesn't agree with you an idiot. I can appreciate your concern for dogs in general but to be fair your not going to get much support with your antics.

Here, Here...

Lyre61

Nala wrote:

It's a cat. It's not going to get any bigger than like a foot tall.

Ever heard of A Maine Coon?
The problem with ireland is that there is no form of controling feral population. From what I know, there aren't many feral neuter and release programs going on at the present moment. If more were put in place then we would have a controlable population of animals.

Also if you are interested in a certain breed and you really want one, then you should attempt to aquire one, as i did with the Siamese. But that is not to say that we should ignore those animals in pounds . I got my dog from a pound and I love her dearly and she is very good with children.

The reason for so many animals ending up in pounds is a result of irresponsible owners who want a puppy or kitten, because they are cute and then come to realise that they cannot stay that way forever. So they end up in pounds and on the street.

As I sadi A feral neuter and release program would make the population of animals more controlable with less animals in a pound and at risk of being put down.

Sorry for rambling on. I'm kinda new to this stuff.

Lyre61's daughter.

Carcharodon

Nala wrote:

No it doesn't. My statement applies to "people who spend a lot of money on a particular breed". That does not include mongrels. Being mongrels, they are a mixture of breeds.
Read my post.

I think your missing the point :eek:
Yes, I realise your statement applies to people that spend a lot of money on a particular breed but this is where your statement falls short as in reality the statement applies to all these types of dog owners, owners of particular breeds and mongrels.

You may seem to think that pedigree owners have no respect for their dog and just abandon them when they grow up but this also happens to mongrels......

You seem to think that pure breed owners walk around all day gathering up little puppies with their pitch forks and throwing them on fires where as monegral owners play happily in delightful meadows with halos over their heads

EGAR

As a rescue, I can throw my tuppence worth in as well. It is a misconception that only mongrels end up in the pounds. Not so, I have quite few PB dogs here and some of them pedigreed to the bejaysus and accordingly expensive as pups. And spay/neutered and release programs wont help much as long as we are not changing what is in peeps heads. Education is the key to the massive problem Ireland has with unwanted cats and dogs.

Pipp

Nala wrote:

Pounds and shelters are full of Labradors/Labrador mixes, so yes I do think it is wrong that you chose to buy two "pedigree babies" instead.

Are you always so black and white about everything in life? I take offence to your mocking my choice of words, and I take real offence that you think its ok to come onto a public message board and b*tch at people that dont look at life the same way you do.

Now, in my defence, I know that there are lots of lab mixes etc. in pounds and I am fully aware that a large proportion of people who buy labradors do not research the breed and when the pup gets too big and boistrous they hand them over to the pound. The reason why we chose not to take a lab from a situation like this is simply because the damage inflicted on the dog by the original owner. When I say damage I mean training, or lack thereof.

If someone buys a lab because its all cute and yellow not realising that the dog is going to grow big and become very strong, strong enough even to pull a grown man by the lead in whatever direction the dog fancies, when the dog starts to test their authority, as labs are known to go through a "teenage" phase as it were, when all of this happens the dog becomes too much and gets handed over too the pound.

Now, this is the owners fault entirely for not investing enough thought and time into their choice of breed, and also for not spending enough time on training. Labradors are fiercly intelligent dogs, and will bend over back wards to please their owners - the dog needs to be guided on how to do this and what is appropriate and what isnt. I bought my pups from a reputable breeder and we have spent a great deal of time and effort on training, walking on lead, their place in our house etc. and we have two happy labs who know whats what and know that they will be well fed, have a warm bed, will get lots of walks and play, and wont be left alone for more than two hours at a time.

Now, this was all done by choice and we have invested a great deal of time and money in our dogs, so why on earth would we want to take a lab from the pound who would essentially be a very large pup with whom we would have to start from scratch with in regards to training?

Lab pups, even six months old are very strong, so it would be a very difficult task to train an unruly almost fully grown dog that hasnt had the good start in training that we have given our dogs. Theres also the possibilty of abuse, or ill treatment. How are we to know that the dog hasnt been abused, or hit? Labs are known to be easy going but Im sure that they would react defensively if pushed into it. There could be phsychological damage, maybe from being left alone outside all day?? when you take a dog from the pound all of these things are unknown.

Unfortunately for the poor dogs in the pound there are lots of people out there that dont do what we have done with our dogs and the end result is the over population of pounds with unwanted animals that were simply too much to manage. Education is key, people dont know how easy it is to tell the dog whats acceptable and whats not, theres no need for anything other than gentle encouragement and lots and lost of patience.

Now, I understand the sentiment behind your point, and I agree with you in that there are far too many unwanted dogs in the pounds. I feel that education is the only way to remedy this, as I said above. If people were more tuned in on how to care for and train a dog properly they wouldnt be so eager to give up on the dog.
Everyone has choices in life and my choice was the right one for me, and Im sure Im not alone in that opinion.

tallus

I wouldn't take issue with people spending money on expensive pets as long as the pet gets required care tbh.

Mits

I have been looking for a dog. I have a young family and want a puppy as a family member. I believe it must be a puppy as I want my children to experience a the life cycle and want the puppy to bond with the family. I have chosen a pedigree dog because I want to insure certain traits in the dog.

I grew up with big dog’s collies, Alsatian, mongrels but the best dog I ever had was a Doberman Pincher. I would get another Doberman but I do not believe in putting a mussel on a dog. So I have decided on a golden retriever I was quoted €600 for the dog and it pedigree sound excellent. If I could get it cheaper I would but I need to be sure of the health of the dog and I am willing to pay for that.

bounty_hunter

Hi Mits
You sound like you've really thought a lot about this, well done.
I just wanted to mention that no matter how much you pay for your dog, this will never be a guarantee that your pet will be healthy. To a certain extent it will guarantee there there are no known hereditary issues, but no amount of careful breeding can ensure that an animal doesn't succumb to some kind of sickness during the course of its life.
As I said, I just wanted to mention this in case you hadn't considered it, so many people buy expensive pets thinking that the extra cost will ensure a hassle-free life, and then end up heartbroken or under financial strain when an unexpected illness raises its head

Best of luck!

peasant

on a bit of a side track ...

Taking in a dog from a pound / shelter is not as big a deal education and trainingwise as it is made out to be here.

On the other hand, raising and training a pup into a "proper" dog is much more work than some people realize.

In my experience it is actually easier to teach an older pound/shelter dog what is what around your place that to raise and train a pup.

The thing with training dogs is consistency. You have to be constant in your message all the time. No is always NO, every day and in every circumstance ...not "ok ...just this once", or "ah well, can't really blame him", or "I just cant be strict, he's so cute"

Dogs have a really fine antenna for the exception to the rule and soon they will manipulate you so much that the exception BECOMES the rule ...especially Puppies ...they are real masters at wrapping you around their little paws.

So it is a very, very hard job to raise a pup by conveying the same message and rules over and over for months on end and not stray from the path.

Plus it takes time (as in actual time spent with the dog) and commitment.

A lot of people think that if they only buy the "right brand" of dog, it will more or less automatically become just like the dogs in its breed description. They couldn't be further fom the truth.
Mistakes made during the raising of the pup (often only little inconsistencies) can add up to give you the dog from hell ...no matter WHAT its breed.


Now take an older dog from the pound/shelter.

The first advantage is: what you see is what you get. The dog is fully grown, you know what it looks like and its behaviour and character can be assessed.

When you take him home, his main interest will be to suss out as quickly as possible what the law of the land is, how he can fit in, and how he can bend the rules.

If you take an older dog home and you know what you're doing, set up your rules and stick to them ...within a few days you will have a perfectly behaved dog around the house and within a few weeks he will have sussed out the rest (like walking on a lead, general outside behaviour, etc) as well.


This is the beauty of dogs. As highly social animals their whole aim in life is to fit in somewhere. If you exploit this properly, don't mollycoddle or fuss over the new arrival but get the rules laid out clearly and sternly, your "new" dog will be your "best friend" before you know it.

TerrorFirmer

Carcharodon wrote:

Very narrow minded and self rightous views in my opinion.
Its not the person that bought the pure breeds fault that there are lots of unwanted dogs in Ireland.
We are all entitled to a choice and as long as these people treat their dogs with due care, then its not up to anyone else to judge them.

Sure if we were to take this view in all aspects of life, we would all be adopting children from all the overcrowded orphanages in the world, instead of having our own children....

We all know puppy mills are a disgrace and a unwanted dogs are as entitled to a home as any other but if someone wants to spend their money on a dog of their choice, its fine as long as they treat it the way it deserves

Bang on, that's what I was about to say. We've had several West Highland terriers and I see nothing wrong with that. Yes, it's terrible about all the strays that end up being put down, and it is a shame, but at the end of the day I love this particular breed. Now, thats not to say I don't love dogs, I do, and no matter what sort of a dog I see I always stop to play with it - situation allowing obviously. But given the choice of a beautiful pup that I have a fondness for and furthermore, know exactly how it will turn out or a mongrel that, despite my love for dogs, could potentially turn out to be any sort of creature, I know which option I'd chose, and there is nothing wrong with that either.

Nala, you are painting a fiercely black and white image that is almost dictating that people who purchase pedigree dogs are some class of ignorant snobs with no respect for animal welfare. I don't know if thats what you were aiming for, but it certainly comes across that way and it's rather silly.

I wonder if you would imply that Irish couples should cease to have children altogether and start adopting from orphanages around the world. Yes, its noble, does the world a great deed and incidentally, its how I want to have children someday - but I obviously still totally respect that regardless of its rewards its certainly not for everybody and there's nothing wrong with that.

Alfasudcrazy

Well if you want a particular dog - like when I wanted two doberman pups there is not much choice but to go pedigree. Dobermans are rarely if ever found wandering around the place as strays.

We too have had strays over the years - you can be lucky and get a good one - as we have. But also you can get a physco as we did too (it killed all the neighbours ducks and geese in the space of a 10 minute frenzy)

With strays you often get a dull disinterested dog who just is there for the food.

cotton

Well if you want a particular dog - like when I wanted two doberman pups there is not much choice but to go pedigree. Dobermans are rarely if ever found wandering around the place as strays.


Sadly, there are more & more of them cropping up in the pounds. There's been 5 that I know of, one a puppy in the last few months.

Garth

tallus wrote:

I wouldn't take issue with people spending money on expensive pets as long as the pet gets required care tbh.

That's exactly it isn't it?

SuzyS1972

Alfasudcrazy wrote:

With strays you often get a dull disinterested dog who just is there for the food.

Don't know whether to laugh or cry at that ludicrous remark.

I work with stray and abandoned dogs and yes they may be withdrawn for a few days - what do you expect ? Who knows what they've been through.
Some can be worse than others but any good resuce wouldn't re-home these dogs until they are a bit more confident.
The sad fact is that most dogs in Irelands re-homing centres and pounds are perfect happy well adjusted dogs - Ireland being a bit backwards there is this mentality to just let your dog out in the mornings and they end up getting lost or picked up by passers by / dog wardens etc.

They are not all sad dejected basket cases

superdudeman007

I know where you're coming from but that's mostly just people who have no idea what they're getting. Loads of people actually look up breeds etc and get a purebreed simply because you know what you're gonna get.

peasant

superdudeman007 wrote:

I know where you're coming from but that's mostly just people who have no idea what they're getting. Loads of people actually look up breeds etc and get a purebreed simply because you know what you're gonna get.

Dogs are dogs and as such are individuals. The only thing (and even that's not assured at all times) that you know about your future dog when you select it by breed is roughly what it's going to look like and roughly how big it's going to be.

That's it.

As far as character and behaviour are concerned breed descriptions are just wishful thinking. Character and behaviour are determined by the individual character traits of the individual dog and its upbringing and training.
NOT by what some over-enthusiastic breeder put in the write-up.

There are golden Retrievers out there that want to eat little children, King Charles spaniels that want to do the same, Rottweilers that are afraid of everything and Pitbulls that just want to live in peace.

Choosing a certain breed makes sense when you look at certain circumstances: You shouldn't choose a Basset or a Bulldog as a companion for a marathon runner, or a Husky or Border Collie for an elderly lady ...fair enough.

But buying a Golden Retriever because on the tin it says "good with children" ...that's just dangerous. Because it will not be good with children just on the power of the breed description alone. It will have to be trained to be so ...and it will still have to be supervised at all times when with the children.

Pounds are full of purebreds that didn't do "exactly as it says on the tin" ...

Ronseal don't do dogs.

damo605

peasant wrote:

Ronseal don't do dogs.

VERY Well Put!

artieanna

The problem that needs to be tackled here in Ireland is the people who breed dogs to make money so a litter is produced for selling either by pro breeders, back yard breeders or puppie farms, then there is the irresponsible owners who do not spay, neuter.....if every dog in each litter is not sold or given away the remaining puppies end up being dumped, drowned etc;

Then there is the buyers who don't reasearch.... ahhhh he's/she's sooo cutttteee:) ....puppie is brought home and grows into a biggg dog that the family have neither the time or space to accomodate and we don't know how to handle him :eek: etc etc so the dogs (cute puppies) eventually end up in the pounds:mad: .....
MY MOTTO
If you buy a dog, rescue a dog or breed dogs......You are making a commitment to look after, be responsible for and provide for that dog, also you are responsible to neuter or provide a home or care for any offspring born...The breed you choose is up to you, how much you pay too just as long as you are responsible for this new family member through good times and bad! This should apply to buyers and sellers

This also should be written into law!!!

Kingdom

I have 2 boxer (pups). They are coming up to a year old. I had moved to my first house and had wanted dogs for a long time but never the opportunity. I admit I hadn't done much research but I liked the Boxer, strong, loyal, playful, energetic.
I work shifts so there is always somebody around the gaff. But nevertheless we decided to get two pups, for company for each other more than anything else. At the time a local "breeder" was advertising pups for sale, so we rambled up, saw the pups parents and they were beautiful. Protective initially but not aggressive. The"breeder" claimed had them vaccinated, chipped and registered with the KC but they chipps were for the wrong dogs when I had them checked in the vets. Having read a few different threads, the housing they were kept in, on a massive estate albeit, was poor. I was to get a phonecall for their IKC reg but it never came! I realise that I probably shouldn't have shelled out the money for them that I did, and while they are so much more work than I expected, they are brilliant pets and the affection they emit is unreal. They are most definitely part of the family and I could never consider giving them up, even with a nipper due in a week.
We house them outside, [but for the first few months (when they were small) they were kept indoors], I even made a run for them and I'm the anti-diy dude! They made mess of our garden but we accepted they would do that as it was never a garden really to begin with. We are getting it designed, and have dedeicated half of it to them.

My reply is in relation to the first post of this thread. Now I've bought two pedigree pups, I mightnt have had much of a clue, and whilst the way I treat them might be perceived as inhumane, I don't give a flying fcuk what people think. I treat them as well as I can, they are good natured towards me and they are cared for. Thats all that matters.

Attol

My little brother is allergic to dogs. We never realised we could have a dog until we visited some friends in France who had a Bichon Frise. We couldn't risk getting a mongrel in case it didn't have the same kind of skin and hair. Imagine having to risk giving away your puppy because it made your children sick. That would be so heart breaking. Both our puppies came from a well researched kennel club approved breeder whose whole family had bichons. They could not have been better adjusted or taken care of. We've had numerous relatives who are also allergic who now finally have dogs. The temperaments and sizes of these dogs is ideal for us so they're prefect for the situation we're in.

I have an allergy of a lesser extent so may attempt to rescue a dog in the future when I've my own place. I'm just afraid of risking having to give up a dog due to allergies. I couldn't bear to make it feel unwanted and unloved because I couldn't take care of it if I did develop a sensitivity.

boomerang

I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with buying a purebred dog, but I don't agree that

"people spending money on expensive pets [is ok] as long as the pet gets required care"

or that

"if someone wants to spend their money on a dog of their choice, its fine as long as they treat it the way it deserves"

I think if you're going to go out and buy a dog, you've got an immediate responsibility to ensure that you buy that dog from a reputable breeder, who has put time, money and great care into the animal. If you buy from a backyard breeder or from someone who's fronting for a puppy farm, no questions asked, you are buying into the misery of dogs who are subjected to repeated pregnancies, kept in filthy conditions and whose health and wellbeing is totally neglected. I have seen two Cavalier King Charles bitches that had been used for breeding to sell the pups for cash in the local papers. The two dogs were nearly blind, their coats were caked and matted, they were underweight and completely run down. They were handed into rescue because they were so incapacitated from neglect, they could no longer be used for breeding. Anyone that bought a pretty, fluffy little pup from the owner for a few hundred quid and gave it an excellent home, was still (albeit unwittingly) buying into the hidden misery of those dams.

So it's not enough that you take good care of the pup that you buy. You must also ensure that your cash doesn't perpetuate cruelty. I couldn't live with myself if I knowingly bought a pup that came from such circumstances. I know you could argue that it's a kindness to buy such a pup and give it a better life, but if no one bought dogs in this way, there'd be no market for these nasty opportunists.

If I ever do decide to buy a dog, boy will I do my homework on the breed and the breeder before the pup comes home.

peasant

boomerang

Very well put !

mods: any chance of making this a sticky? Possibly on top of every page in the dog breeders info thread?

Carcharodon

boomerang wrote:

I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with buying a purebred dog, but I don't agree that

"people spending money on expensive pets [is ok] as long as the pet gets required care"

or that

"if someone wants to spend their money on a dog of their choice, its fine as long as they treat it the way it deserves"

I think if you're going to go out and buy a dog, you've got an immediate responsibility to ensure that you buy that dog from a reputable breeder, who has put time, money and great care into the animal. If you buy from a backyard breeder or from someone who's fronting for a puppy farm, no questions asked, you are buying into the misery of dogs who are subjected to repeated pregnancies, kept in filthy conditions and whose health and wellbeing is totally neglected. I have seen two Cavalier King Charles bitches that had been used for breeding to sell the pups for cash in the local papers. The two dogs were nearly blind, their coats were caked and matted, they were underweight and completely run down. They were handed into rescue because they were so incapacitated from neglect, they could no longer be used for breeding. Anyone that bought a pretty, fluffy little pup from the owner for a few hundred quid and gave it an excellent home, was still (albeit unwittingly) buying into the hidden misery of those dams.

So it's not enough that you take good care of the pup that you buy. You must also ensure that your cash doesn't perpetuate cruelty. I couldn't live with myself if I knowingly bought a pup that came from such circumstances. I know you could argue that it's a kindness to buy such a pup and give it a better life, but if no one bought dogs in this way, there'd be no market for these nasty opportunists.

If I ever do decide to buy a dog, boy will I do my homework on the breed and the breeder before the pup comes home.

How can you quote people out of context like that, you imply that people that agree with those statements automaticaly dont care about where they buy the dog, that is such a load of rubbish. Just because people buy pedigree does not mean that they will buy it from a puppy farm :rolleyes:
Yes, what you are saying is fundamentally right but your very point applies to everything in life, from the clothes on our back to the food in our stomachs. I can guarantee that some of the products you buy in the high street come from sweat shops from all over the world, i wonder how you can still live with yourself knowing that some of the products you buy come from equaly if not worse conditions than those dogs endure.
Maybe you should start another thread outlining problems with puppy farms instead of painting pedigree owners with a pretty distorted brush

CrowdedHouse

Kingdom wrote:

I have 2 boxer (pups). The"breeder" claimed had them vaccinated, chipped and registered with the KC but they chipps were for the wrong dogs when I had them checked in the vets. Having read a few different threads, the housing they were kept in, on a massive estate albeit, was poor. I was to get a phonecall for their IKC reg but it never came!

Now I've bought two pedigree pups,

Well if their IKC registration papers and chips aren't in order you haven't got pedigree pups.

Don't get me wrong I'm sure they're fine dogs but you got caught by a cowboy it seems.

boomerang

As I already said, I don't have a problem with people buying their dog from a breeder. I think it's only fair to say though that a lot of people who decide to buy a dog don't even know that puppy farms exist, or that they should meet the pups with their mum and confirm that the animals are healthy, well-socialised and properly cared for. They just hand over the cash, and then sadly have to deal with the consequences when the pup turns out to be wormy, unvaccinated, flea-ridden, fear-aggressive or develops life-threatening congenital diseases.

I wasn't implying that *all* people who purchase purebred dogs don't care about the dog's background. I was replying directly to the posters who expressed these opinions. And I still don't agree with them - it's *not* enough that you provide an excellent standard of care for the dog that you purchase. Ethically, you cannot disregard where the pup has come from.

So here's my check-list:

Buy from someone who is fanatical about your chosen breed and is who wholly committed to producing sound, happy, and healthy puppies with excellent temperaments. If you're really passionate about a particular breed, then buy from someone who is furthering the breed's development by breeding from excellent, health-tested lines. Otherwise you're inadvertently perpetuating bad breeding. There are already too many deaf Dalmatians, wheezy, breathless Cavaliers, bald and scabby Westies and arthritic German Shepherds. :-(

Make sure the mother and pups' environment is clean, warm, safe, and that the pups are kept in close contact with the breeder and their family, and not some dank, cold shed where the pups barely see a human until a buyer comes along. Mum herself should be happy, healthy and friendly. The pups should be a good weight (but not pot-bellied) with clear, shiny eyes (no gunge in their ducts) and have shiny coats (no scurf or parasites). The pups should be curious, playful and engaging.

Confirm that the breeder has carried out all the relevant tests for the various heriditary problems associated with the breed. He or she should be able to provide you with up-to-date screening certificates from their vet. For example, if you're buying a German Shepherd puppy, the breeder should provide you with a certificate indicating the parents' hip score, which should be signed off by their vet.

If the breeder doesn't give you a vaccination certificate, worming calendar, pedigree, microchip data and health screening certificate upfront, walk away - even if they promise they'll forward the documentation on to you later. They won't.

Never allow a breeder to deliver a pup to you at your home, or at an arranged meeting point such as a carpark. It inevitably means the breeder is unsavoury and is in it for the money - the welfare of the pups and their parents won't have been a priority. Always insist that you see the pups and their mother before agreeing to purchase. If the breeder won't agree to this, look elsewhere. Ireland is the puppy-farm capital of Europe.

Any breeder worth their salt will think long and hard before allowing you to take one of their puppies. Be very wary if the breeder is willing to give you a pup, no questions asked. You'll know the breeder is genuine if they are enthusiastic about allowing you to visit the puppies as often as you can before bringing your chosen puppy home. The more you and your family interact with the puppy, the easier the transition will be for the puppy when you do eventually bring him home. The best breeders are unstinting in their help and advice throughout your dog's life, and may even require a homecheck and an undertaking that if you have a change in circumstances and can no longer keep the dog, the breeder reserves the right to have the dog returned to them.

OK. Off soapbox. This is something I'm really passionate about!!

racso1975

I think that this thread is a very sensitive one. I feel people who have spent money on a purebreed feel they have to justify and rationale the reason why. Well I think ya dont if you have researched the dog properly and are sure this is the dog that you and your family can cope with emotionally, financially and physically then go for.

The only thing that should be stickyed off this thread is the advice that boomerang has given on buying a dog from a good breeder........great advice an thanks for