Biceps and Triceps training

TerrorFirmer

If you were for a time solely training biceps and triceps using bench and dumbells, can you train everyday or would it still be advisable take day off in between like you would when training all the other muscle groups.

I remember hearing somewhere that its difficult to overstrain these muscles but that may very well be false and I can't find an answer through google.

justsomebloke

just like the myth about having to do abs everyday, no you shouldn't do bicep and tricep work everyday

Dragan

For biceps i would say it is actually very easy to over train them. Think about it, what do you actually do that taxes your biceps all day? ( and you chest for that matter )

Bicep training once a week is fine, if you find you recover very, very quickly then do a short, smaller session after back as well.

I do two working sets of biceps after back, 4 on any day i train them alone.

iregk

One of the most important things about training is down time. You need to give your mucles a break for two reasons. To allow them to recover and repair themselves. To allow them to grow and get bigger.

As you lift weight you are ripping muscle fiber. Training every day on the same muscle you are not giving your muscles time to repair and rebuild.

TerrorFirmer

Ok, thanks. I'm only using lightish weights, about 16kg dumbells and 55kg bench but the increase in size is noticable, so I was wondering should I be pressing to work them more. Thanks for the reply.

Actually, you do once a week? I do biceps every second day - but not intensively, rather the opposite in fact but its still giving some gains. Maybe 4 or 5 sets of 10 reps of 16kg on each arm...should I be aiming to keep this up or switch to lifting heavily, over longer rest periods. Have no access to gym at moment so limited to my bench and dumbells.

While I'm here is it better to lift say 1 rep of 60kg or 5 or 6 reps of 50kg. Which is better for strength or adding muscle? I have a friend, whilst his arms and muscles are asthetically smaller then mine, he can lift much heavier (maybe up to as much as 20kg more).

rubadub

Difficult to overtrain?!? the biceps are without a doubt the most overtrained muscles out there. I know many guys who have weights and ALL they do is bicep curls, they are totally ignorant of any other exercises. I was saying to a mate that I had over 100kg in weights, and he was confused asking how I could curl that much.

Many upper body exercises are using the bicep while preforming other movements. I only do 1 set of bicep curls in my training, sometimes leave them out altogether since they are being used to much in my other work.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

TerrorFirmer

Question: If, now I know otherwise you wouldn't, but again IF you were to solely train biceps and triceps for a limited period of time, what sort of program would you use, what kind of weights and how many reps?

How much, generally speaking, is too much for bicep and tricep work?

Not that I think I'm doing remotely enough work to ever consider myself having reach a maximum potential lads, but I'm just curious!

tribulus

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Yep i'm strongly in favour of this.
Try doing some heavy rows and chins and remember any pressing (with a lockout at the top) will be working your triceps too. Maybe 2/3 direct sets for biceps and triceps each max coupled with the above and you should be fine assuming nutrition/rest etc. are good.

justsomebloke

HavoK wrote:

Question: If, now I know otherwise you wouldn't, but again IF you were to solely train biceps and triceps for a limited period of time, what sort of program would you use, what kind of weights and how many reps?

If I was soley doing arm work I would probably do a programme 3 times during a 2 week period, maybe twice a week at a push, and I would probably stick do doing super sets. So 3 sets of dips followed by barbell curls, Then 3 sets of skull crushers followed by hammer curls, then 3 sets of close grip bench followed by chins.

However as I generally wouldn't see the best gains in my arms without doing a lot of big heavy compund lifting I generally wouldn't ever confine myself to only doing arm based workouts

Dragan

HavoK wrote:

How much, generally speaking, is too much for bicep and tricep work?

Whatever impeeds your recovery, really. There is a point in your workout where all you are doing is hindering growth and development and it is up to individual trainee's to find this point for themselves.

The person with the best arms i have seen in real life does a very short, highly abbreviated workout, consisting of just 4 work sets. He works with a degree of intensity that is simple shocking, and while some people will read this and say "4 work sets? Thats nothing" i guarantee that they good not do this guys workout they way he does it.

You need to find what works for you.

I also find that dealing in hypotheticals when it comes to weight training only complicates the issue. I cannot see any reason why someone would only need to train arms for 3 weeks.

t-ha

HavoK wrote:

Question: If, now I know otherwise you wouldn't, but again IF you were to solely train biceps and triceps for a limited period of time, what sort of program would you use, what kind of weights and how many reps?

How much, generally speaking, is too much for bicep and tricep work?

Not that I think I'm doing remotely enough work to ever consider myself having reach a maximum potential lads, but I'm just curious!

Sorry man - you've got to figure that out for yourself! Different people will respond differently, some people use their arms more on pulling/pressing exercises than others (form issues), some people simply recover faster, there is no cookie-cutter answer. Just experiment with different methods until you get one that works.

As for not working arms directly - much like the idea of not working abs directly or not working shoulders directly it depends on your goals and your results to date. If your shoulders shrivel up to nothing when you don't work them directly, then maybe you should start working them again, same for abs, arms, any body-part. Some people will get away with no direct arm work, for a while at least, some people won't.

TerrorFirmer

Its just between late evening college and work I don't really have any time to go to the gym much anymore, at least, not for the next few terms. So I'm limited strictly to my bench and dumbells at home. So I'm no longer getting any true rounded workout in. A workout, which is better then nothing, but....could be a hell -actually 100% - of a lot better. My stuff is in a small attic as well, so no room for anything else, and I've been forbidden to put up a chin up bar...:rolleyes:

justsomebloke

then try an all round full body routine instead (you may have to buy a chin up bar but it wouldn't be for chin ups) so you could try something like the example below which you could do at home

A)

Bench,
front squat
glute ham raises (does anybody have the link to this again)
bent over barbell rows,
upright row,
hack calf raises
weighted bench dips
barbell curls




thrusters
dead lift,
barbell shrugs,
lateral raises,
flat or incline flyes,
hammer curls
tricep extensions


C)

The Bear

Anton17

This thread has me curious that i maybe overtraining my biceps and triceps.
At the mo im training my biceps on the same day as my back, and my triceps with my chest. 3rd day is forlegs and shoulders btw
Heres my routine:

Chest and Triceps:
Bench
Incline Bench
Pec Fly
Overhead extensions
Pushdowns
French Press
Dips

Back and biceps:
Upright row
Bent over row (just started these, not too confident bout my form yet!)
EZ curls
Hammer Curls
Reverse EZ curls
Bicepmachine

Any comments appreciated!

justsomebloke

Anton I wouldn't be to worried if I was you, one of the most popular split programmes is the type of one you are using i.e. bi/back and tri and chest.

As when working your back you are also working your triceps it just means that some then end of this session you will not be targeting your triceps for another week giving them plently of time to rest and grow same with biceps on chest day

g'em

well how long have you been training this way? And how have your biceps and triceps responded so far? As has been already said, different people respond in different ways- personally four excercises for my triceps would be overkill, I normally stick to dips and push downs, but others can train their tri's more than that. Although four exercises is quite a lot...

And how about doing some deadlifts for your back? Rows are fantastic, but you could throw in some pull-downs for upper back work too, or even better, do some chins.

TerrorFirmer

I've been doing this for the past month or even two - sometimes I used to use them even when I was attending the gym, and there have been periods during the year where I didn't go the gym for a week or two and opted for this instead. Obviously given the low intensity I'm not making any gains worth writing home about but if I flex my arm its probably about 50-60% size increase over when I first started. I've also noticed though my triceps are getting stronger faster then my biceps.

Deadlifts is one thing I had planned on but I have a fairly bad back.....not bad, in the sense, I've ever actually damanged it, but sometimes even lifting lighter things causes discomfort, let alone deadlifting....don't know where the problem originates from but my father has an awful back and well which limited him when he used to do weights. I think the most I can deadlift is about 60kg before my back starts acting up so in that sense not much point in doing them really for any length of time.

Shrimp

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread already, but if you are going for arm size be sure to train ur tri's as they are 2 thirds ur arm sizer the other third is ur bi.. as far as i know!

TerrorFirmer

Obviously this questions wasn't worth wasting a new thread over, but now I'm back daily at the gym, doing weights every second day - I just said fcuk it, sure I'd probably be hanging around doing nothing at 9pm at home anyway - whats a good way to rapidly increase bicep strength?

I'm fine with triceps - relatively speaking - doing about 95kg on Tricep press but using dumbells the most I can manage is probably about 18kg, which ain't so great....

Have never given more attention to my triceps or anything, just they are getting stronger faster.

Usually I would do 3/12 tricep press, 3/12 pulldowns, 3/6or7 bench, 10xchinups, then 3/12 dumbells, and a few other misc leg work/ab/back machines

Dragan

HavoK wrote:

Obviously this questions wasn't worth wasting a new thread over, but now I'm back daily at the gym, doing weights every second day - I just said fcuk it, sure I'd probably be hanging around doing nothing at 9pm at home anyway - whats a good way to rapidly increase bicep strength?

Stop over training them so fu*king much. In fairness, it has been said about a dozen times in this thread that you only need to train your arms ONCE a week for most people.

The best way to increase bicep strenght is to train them once a week directly, using curls over varying types, for a short, intense session using excellent form. Try and increase the weights progressively and work on always upping your weight while maintaining excellent form. Give your biceps ample time to rest and recover before you train you back, which while involve your arms in a big way.

Work on things like heavy rows, deadlifts and chins on back day….as these will lead to an increase in bicep strength also.

Finally, ensure that you eat enough of the right foods at the the right times and get enough sleep. You need to train your WHOLE BODY progressively to see proper overall gains.

Sorry for losing patience, but you really do not seem to be absorbing anything that is said in replies to you.

TerrorFirmer

Sorry Dragan, I have been listening to advice but I thought given the low weights I was using personally that it'd be hard to overtrain them as such in my case compared to what, for example, you and others here would be lifting.

Guess just afraid that limiting my bicep work to once a week will see the limited gains I have made waste away....:o

Dan133269

Dragan wrote:

The person with the best arms i have seen in real life does a very short, highly abbreviated workout, consisting of just 4 work sets. He works with a degree of intensity that is simple shocking, and while some people will read this and say "4 work sets? Thats nothing" i guarantee that they good not do this guys workout they way he does it.

give us an idea of what it's like!
and what are skull crushers and hammer curls?

Dragan

HavoK wrote:

Sorry Dragan, I have been listening to advice but I thought given the low weights I was using personally that it'd be hard to overtrain them as such in my case compared to what, for example, you and others here would be lifting.

Weight is relative....your bicep muscle does not know what weight it is lifting, only that it will be relatively heavy compared to the force your bicep can excert, the same way my bicep does not know what weight it is lifting.

As the saying goes "Heavy is for me as heavy is for you." Once you are working with strict form, within about 8 to 12 reps and to failure or even beyond sometimes then the weight is not important. Weight is only a factor is you can look back and your workout and say "Yes, i could have lifted more" or "i didn't really fail, i just gave up".

Slow and solid gains are the best ones to chase, as they are the ones that stay with you.