Ride the Lightning vs. Master Of Puppets

Motley Crue

Ok, heres something ive been meaning to trash out here for a while, I prefer Ride the Lightning to Master of Puppets. Its simple really, because to have made RLT only 1 year (or less) after Kill Em All was phenomenal, the progress that the band had made and the songwriting ability that they had aquired is quite frankly astonishing, rarely do you see such sequels so close together where the music is so drastically improved from the previous effort. Dont get me wrong, Kill Em All is just what it says on the tin, a true Trash record...nothing else, but RLT is something that showcased the fact they had a future in the music Industry (underground or mainstream regardless) for the next 20 years. what do ppl think?

ball ox

master of puppets is the best thing that metallica ever produced imo.

Doctor J

Ride The Lightning is a great album, but Master of Puppets is timeless. It's a real classic, planets aligned, lucky underpants, black cat etc type of record.

In fairness, it was their 5th album that set them up as really having a long term career, they were playing the same venues as the likes of Exodus, Overkill etc back in the day. They were always one of the better bands back then but I don't think anyone expected this sort of longevity from them or for them to ever be as big as Iron Maiden

finbarr

Ride The Lightning all the way for me. Both RTL and the black album are huge steps forward for the band. Puppets to me was just a more polished RTL in the same way that Load was a more polished Black album. I always prefered when bands brought out an album that was a huge departure from the previous one. Most of my favourite bands have done this at some point in their careers... Metallica, COC, Anathema, Paradise Lost, Anthrax, etc.

It wasn't me!

Master of Puppets. To be honest, in musical and intellectual terms, I probably consider them on a par, but something just clicks in Master of Puppets that makes it such a phenomanel chunk of metal, above and beyond anything they did before or since, or that most bands did before or since.

peter1892

Actually I listened to both albums today. For me is has to be '...Puppets', it's pretty much perfect. 'RTL' is a fine album too, but it's just not as good. I think they'd hit a new level of songwriting & musicianship on Puppets, a definite evolution from 'RTL', which in itself was a huge jump forward from 'Kill 'em all'.

I'm one of those people who likes pretty much everything Metallica have done though, although I rarely listen to anyhting off 'Load'....

LightofDarkness

I personally value AJFA over both of them, but MOP gets my vote between these two. It defined the more signature Metallica sound (as in no Dave Mustaine material) and set them a cut above the rest.

Mushy

Doctor J wrote:

Ride The Lightning is a great album, but Master of Puppets is timeless.

I was looking for a way of saying something like this, and this line sums it up perfectly for me. RTL has all the qualities i love in an album (good drum sound, good guitar, great bass) but MOP always gives me that something extra when I listen to it. If i knew what that was, it'd possibly lose that magic. I cant fault much on either of the albums, so thats why that quote is perfect for my way of thinking

Arucard

finbarr wrote:

Ride The Lightning all the way for me. Both RTL and the black album are huge steps forward for the band. Puppets to me was just a more polished RTL in the same way that Load was a more polished Black album. I always prefered when bands brought out an album that was a huge departure from the previous one. Most of my favourite bands have done this at some point in their careers... Metallica, COC, Anathema, Paradise Lost, Anthrax, etc.

Load & ReLoad SUCKED. for me, MoP > RtL

gucci

ride the lightening is brilliant but i think master of pupets just shades it.
especially after seeing metallica play the full album live this year it drove the point home in my opinion. rtl has more balledy type material (fade to black) and i prefer the sound in master

Tazz T

RTL has much better production, and songwise, is equal to, if not better than MOP. Guitar is in your face and you can still hear the bass that started disappearing during MOP and was non-existent on Justice For All.

Black NG-60-90

Tazz T wrote:

RTL has much better production, and songwise, is equal to, if not better than MOP. Guitar is in your face and you can still hear the bass that started disappearing during MOP and was non-existent on Justice For All.

I disagree with that. Depending on your stereo system, the bass on Justice for all comes out loud and clear like a huge drone. Although its not so loud on Puppets you can still hear it clearly enough.

senordingdong

Puppets for myself.

byte

That's a tough call, though for me MoP just marginally pips RTL as my favourite.

GLaDOS

Ride the Lightning for me, take nothing away from Puppets but I just love Lightning

SirLemonhead

Ride the Lightning.

Don't like the guitar tone on MOP at all. Total mid suckage. Kirk Hammett sounds horrible on that album too, half his solos sound totally aimless, and like he's playing a string of random notes (though there are one or two good solos on it).

Come to think of it, I dislike most of the songs on the album too in general. I could only really stand to listen to Sanitarium, Disposable Heroes and Leper Messiah.

I don't really listen to Metallica at all anymore but i'd pick Ride the lightning over MOP anyday.

Pyr0

It has to be Ride Zee Lightning for me

Ph3n0m

Gah how could I possible choose.

I was given Ride the Lightning as my first Metallica album and MOP second...dear christ why even bother. Both albums are superb and but if I had to pick, I would have to agree with Doctor J.

As a fellow old man, he has the eloquence to make it all seem right.


ON side note - was anyone digusted that nothing was done/mentioned by Metallica or Megadeth on Wednesday? I know they probably would have done somethin privately to acknowledge the specific date, but as fan I was half expecting something

Doctor J

Black NG-60-90 wrote:

I disagree with that. Depending on your stereo system, the bass on Justice for all comes out loud and clear like a huge drone. Although its not so loud on Puppets you can still hear it clearly enough.

Ehhh, I beg to differ. The bass is mixed out almost entirely on AJFA, you can hear it (the bass tone) if you listen really carefully during the clean segments of One, for example, where Newsted goes and deviates from shadowing the rhythm guitar. It's not a frequency thing where they only pushed the low end and certain stereo systems magically make it reappear, it's not something that a flash stereo is going to undo. Hetfield wanted a very fat ryhthm sound and Ulrich wanted space for his bass drums, hence the bass getting pushed out of the way. There's nothing clever or advanced about what they did, and they'll admit as much themselves, they just turned it down.

The bass on MOP is mixed a hell of a lot louder.

Motley Crue

Ph3n0m wrote:

ON side note - was anyone digusted that nothing was done/mentioned by Metallica or Megadeth on Wednesday? I know they probably would have done somethin privately to acknowledge the specific date, but as fan I was half expecting something

I mentioned how disgusted i was they didnt do anything on the Burton thread

pbsuxok1znja4r

Ph3n0m wrote:

...dear christ why even bother.

Why indeed.


Well, gun to my head; ...MoP. Though TBH I don't think either albums are all that 'timeless'.

Slightly off-topic, but, Metallica did the thrash metal thing. They completely and utterly did it, properly. It's there, it's done. Which is why after that, Load was the right thing for them to do.

finbarr

Ph3n0m wrote:

was anyone digusted that nothing was done/mentioned by Metallica or Megadeth on Wednesday? I know they probably would have done somethin privately to acknowledge the specific date, but as fan I was half expecting something

Apparently at a Megadeth gig on the 27th Mustaine introduced "In My Darkest Hour" by saying "This one's for Cliff". After 20 years it's as much as I would expect. I expect that Metallica had a chat about him that day too. No need to put it on a websiteor issue a statment.

The Bollox

for me it's definitly RTL, I just enjoy the songs much muh more, I get better rushes from them.

lets compare:

opening songs:
RTL = Fight Fire With Fire
MOP = Battery

I much prefer Fight Fire With Fire, it sets the mood for the album so well, battery does also to a degree, but no so well.

Title Songs:
RTL: astounding, brilliant guitar work, but the vocals aren't that great
MOP: better than RTL in almost every way

Instrumentals:
RTL: The Call Of Ktulu
MOP: Orion

The Call of Ktulu beats Orion to within an inch of it's life

favourite song from the albums nt already mentioned:
RTL: Fade To Black
MOP: Sanitarium

I can say without using hyperbole, Fade to black is 1,000,000 times better, even just for the solo!

ah and poll ftw!

Motley Crue

And the score so far is Ride the Lightning 7, Master of Puppets 12

Still plenty of time to go, but its a good race

pbsuxok1znja4r

Yeah. Let's do it again in another 20 years time.

Sofaspud

Marts wrote:

opening songs:
RTL = Fight Fire With Fire
MOP = Battery

I much prefer Fight Fire With Fire, it sets the mood for the album so well, battery does also to a degree, but no so well.

Title Songs:
RTL: astounding, brilliant guitar work, but the vocals aren't that great
MOP: better than RTL in almost every way

Instrumentals:
RTL: The Call Of Ktulu
MOP: Orion

The Call of Ktulu beats Orion to within an inch of it's life

favourite song from the albums nt already mentioned:
RTL: Fade To Black
MOP: Sanitarium

I can say without using hyperbole, Fade to black is 1,000,000 times better, even just for the solo!

I completely agree (except for the title song bit, I think it'd be a bit closer. I enjoy The Het's early vocal style).
Ride The Lightning for me too.

Gabriel

Masterrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The best album of the 20th century.

Het-Field

Songs In Order Of Greatness

1.Creeping Death
2.Disposable Heroes
3.Damage Inc
4.Trapped Under Ice
5.Fade To Black
6.Ride tHE lIGHTNING
7.Master of Puppets
8.Thing Taht Should Not Be
9.Fight Fire With Fire
10.Orion
11.Kutulu
12For Whom The Bell Tolls
13Battery
13.Sanitarium
14.Escape

Doctor J

Het-Field wrote:

Songs In Order Of Greatness

1.Creeping Death
2.Disposable Heroes
3.Damage Inc
4.Trapped Under Ice
5.Fade To Black
6.Ride tHE lIGHTNING
7.Master of Puppets
8.Thing Taht Should Not Be
9.Fight Fire With Fire
10.Orion
11.Kutulu
12For Whom The Bell Tolls
13Battery
13.Sanitarium
14.Escape

Hmmm... aren't you missing one?

buck65

come on guys this argument is ridiculous anyone that says Ride the Lightning is better than Puppets is having a laugh.
Escape?
Trapped under Ice?
Ride the lightning?

Decent songs but not classics

all of Master fits perfecly
you are only saying different to be different

SirLemonhead

You only say you like Master of Puppets to fit in

It wasn't me!

scouser.tommy wrote:

Load was the right thing for them to do.

I really, really hope you're taking the piss. That made me wince!

SirLemonhead

It wasn't me! wrote:

I really, really hope you're taking the piss. That made me wince!

I like Load too. Rather listen to it than any album between RTL and it actually. I only really lost respect for them when St. Anger came out.

Het-Field

buck65 wrote:

come on guys this argument is ridiculous anyone that says Ride the Lightning is better than Puppets is having a laugh.
Escape?
Trapped under Ice?
Ride the lightning?

Decent songs but not classics

all of Master fits perfecly
you are only saying different to be different

Ahh come on. Eveybody is entitled to their own opinion. Really im a Load man myself. Its the best album. Just because it doesnt rock like MOP. AJFA, doenst mean its not a good record. Outlaw Torn/ Bleeding me are two epics, and Aint My Bitch is probably the most rocking track of the 1990s

A Primal Nut

Motley Crue wrote:

Ok, heres something ive been meaning to trash out here for a while, I prefer Ride the Lightning to Master of Puppets. Its simple really, because to have made RLT only 1 year (or less) after Kill Em All was phenomenal, the progress that the band had made and the songwriting ability that they had aquired is quite frankly astonishing, rarely do you see such sequels so close together where the music is so drastically improved from the previous effort. Dont get me wrong, Kill Em All is just what it says on the tin, a true Trash record...nothing else, but RLT is something that showcased the fact they had a future in the music Industry (underground or mainstream regardless) for the next 20 years. what do ppl think?

Disagree RTL is better than Kill Em All. For me, Ride The Lightning was more of an experimental album, which apart from the three obvious classics, was pretty average by their 80's standards. Master Of Puppets was where they brought that experimenation to its peak.

It's interesting the albums are very similiar in terms of structure.

1. Fight Fire With Fire/Battery

Interesting that both albums open with classical style guitar intro before turning into moshfests. Dislike Hetfields' vocals on FFWF and its a pretty generic thrash riff. Battery is much better in my opinion. Great solo and two great riffs in the bridge.

2. Ride The Lightning/Master Of Puppets

The epic title tracks. Ride The Lightning solo is amazing and the song has kinda been stuck in my head lately. Has a catchy chorous. The riffs, like FFWF are average enough again. Master Of Puppets in the best heavy metal song ever. The live version is still just the best live performance by any band in my opinion, except maybe Paradise City.

3. For Whom The Bell Toles/The Thing That Should Not Be
Both albums slow down on track three but still as heavy as ever. Both solos are plain weird. TTTSNB (apart from the solo) is the only song on MOP that never did anything for me. FWTBT is an out-and-out classic. Cliff Burton's genius on this track has been well documented, but for me the best part is the verse, especially with all the echos when played live.

4. Fade To Black/(Welcome Home) Sanitarium

The ballads. Love both tracks and the solos are amazing on each song. The classical riff in FTB is brilliant but the transition from quiet to loud is a bit extreme. I like the way the verse builds into the heavier chorus on Sanitarium. The transition between quiet and loud is awesome. The main reason Sanitarium wins is for the "Fear of living on" bridge section. And then the solo. My favourite ever Metallica song.

5. Trapped Under Ice/Disposable Heroes.

Trash metal excess in all its glory. One of my favourite Metallica tracks vs one of my least favourite. Disposable Heroes is an awesome trash fest and the solo is incredible. Also love the lyrics.

6. Escape/Leper Messiah

Both songs are a bit more upbeat musically than the rest of both albums. Writing Escape for commercial success clearly backfired. Still, its not a bad song, but I prefer Leper Messiah.

7. The Call Of Ktulu/Orion

I've swapped tracks 7 and 8 on RTL to compare the two instrumentals.

Orion wins hands-down.

8. Creeping Death/Damage Inc

Two more extreme trash metal tracks with two very melodic solos. Creeping Death is another of my favourites. Damage Inc is another track that has been stuck in my head lately. Its also got a cool intro, but Creeping Death wins this one.


6-2 to Master Of Puppets, didn't expect it to be that much, but their is no doubting my favourite. Can't decide between it and Kill 'Em All for my alltime favourite Metallica album.

senordingdong

scouser.tommy wrote:

Slightly off-topic, but, Metallica did the thrash metal thing. They completely and utterly did it, properly. It's there, it's done. Which is why after that, Load was the right thing for them to do.

I agree completley.
I've never seen it better put into words.

Motley Crue

I think dave mustaines trash carrer went downhill from the day he did this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwNIABdqBxY

'Nobody rocked harder or better then Dave Mustaine of Megadeth'
Daffy Duck

LivingDeadGirl

Ride The Lightning

Mental Mickey

Master of Puppets wins by a country mile!!! There isn't a bad track on the album!!
From the nice quiet opening of "Battery" to the pure thrash metal barrage of "Damage Incorporated", the album is pure class!!!! And NOT because it just happened to be Cliff Burton's last album, either!!!

Along with Reign In Blood and Appetite For Destruction, it is quite possibly one of THE best Metal albums ever!!!!!

Hearing it being played live IN FULL at the RDS was f**kin brilliant!!!

phantom_lord

Puppets is a refined version of rtl for me.

Look at battery vs ff
puppets vs rtl

They're doing similiar stuff, but just better on puppets.

SirLemonhead

Got RTL on right now, not listened to it in a long long time. Much better than MOP for sure...I find it to be a better sounding album, production wise.I like the sorta atmosphere it has, and even the fact that the guitar solos aren't too high in the mix (and they're pretty good in fairness to old Hamster). It just sounds more 'interesting' to me than MOP.

Civilian_Target

I'd have always said Ride the Lightning until I saw them play Master of Puppets over the Summer. Creeping Death, For Whom the Bell Tolls and Fade to Black are great great tracks, but the album as a whole just doesn't stand up as well as Master of Puppets.

Chuchu

Great debate. RTL has always been not only my favourite Metallica album but favourite metal album full stop. There's something about it that encapsulated the time of its release, its got a rough edge to it that was just perfect, they weren't that big and don't seem to have been as bothered about a perfectly polished end product or production sound. Although MOP has its moments, Orion really stands out for me (esp as Burton was coming into his own with melody writing and all the rest), RTL just tips it.... and the solo on RTL itself really kisks a**!

Mental Mickey

Puppets still sounds fresh/relevant to today's music, whereas with ROTL & Kill Em All, you can tell that they are still learning......?

With MOP, it just feels like the perfect album......? I think someone already said that the planets must've been aligned.....or words to that effect....?

dcr22B

MoP for me simply because of one song.............Escape! Quite possibly one of the worst songs the band ever had the misfortune to release.

I prefer FFWF/RTL opening to Battery/MoP and For Whom The Bell Tolls to TTTSNB but after that, it's MoP all the way with classics like Welcome Home, Disposable Heroes (my favourite song on the album) and Leper Messiah. To finish it with two of the most underrated Metallica songs in Orion and Damage Inc. only goes to show that MoP is the ultimate Metallica album.

Motley Crue

dcr22B wrote:

MoP for me simply because of one song.............Escape! Quite possibly one of the worst songs the band ever had the misfortune to release.

i have to say that just goes to show what happens when a record company forces a decent band to record a song in a couple of days

Sofaspud

dcr22B wrote:

MoP for me simply because of one song.............Escape! Quite possibly one of the worst songs the band ever had the misfortune to release.

I disagree, I think The Thing That Should Not Be is a terrible song, and that's what drops the standard of MoP for me. Escape ain't so bad.

Mental Mickey

The Thing That Should Not Be a terrible song??? Will ye f**k off with yerself!!??:mad: It's one of the best on the album!!!!!

If you want to hear a terrible Metallica song, look no further than "Jump In The Fire",or most of ReLoad - f**kin AWFUL!!!!!

Pyr0

Jump in the fire is a great song !! Fair enough it doesn't fit well with Kill 'em all, but it's still a great track regardless.

Sofaspud

Mental Mickey wrote:

The Thing That Should Not Be a terrible song??? Will ye f**k off with yerself!!??:mad: It's one of the best on the album!!!!!

If you want to hear a terrible Metallica song, look no further than "Jump In The Fire",or most of ReLoad - f**kin AWFUL!!!!!

Reload is awful, but Jump in the fire is a great song.

I think you're the first person I've heard of that like TTTSNB. I believe, as do most 'talicat fans I know, that it's boring, repetitive, droning, crap. Every time I listen to puppets, I skip it, simply because it bores the arse off me.

To each their own, I suppose.

buck65

jump in the fire is ridiculous as is most of Kill Em All. Ride the Lightning is good , Master is great , Justice is good everything else is lame, napster is embarassing, Newsted said it best when he left. Metallica were a great band circa 84-90 hard, ballsy, then they started supporting themselves!(with videos of themselves) wearing makeup writing **** music suing their fans, playing in Ireland annually like those muppets RHCP
Do you know what is great music- Tool.Now get over it Metallica are finished.