Connecting to the college network

xebec

Looks like IS Services have finally gotten their act together on this - as long as it works that is

Gone are the queues for the network clinics, now we should be able to do everything quickly and easily from any network point!

Really hope this works cos I'm brining a new computer to college this year and really don't want to have to go through all that crap that was involved before again!

The instructions are here. This shouldn't be on the local server, but if it is I'm sorry 1st years, you'll have to wait till next week to see it. (It's not really that exciting anyways, except for those of us who hated the old system!)

That's actually quite cool. Wonder if it'll actually work though.

Nietzschean

sounds like they are redirecting all routing to a specific ip unless you auth....similar to alot of the public wifi points... though i dunno..

kazbegi

From diligent lurking I assertain that there are quite a few computer science / techinacally minded of you about (not that unexpected, this being the internet..) -

Is there any way to run an airport express from a wired socket in hall? I had thought that I would just give them the MAC address of my base station instead of my computer but that doesn't seem like it will be possible now. Thoughts, anyone?

xebec

Guess in theory it could work. Definitely more possible than it would have been previously (where you had to bring your computer to a clinic). Could they know from the MAC that it's an Airport Express rather than a machine? Filestorage access might be a problem too.

TBH there's probably something in the agreement making sure that you don't do this, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be happy about somebody running a wireless network off of a college network point. And you don't want to lose any privileges from ISS - I've never heard of anybody losing privileges in TCD but it would be a very nasty comeback that would stop others doing the same thing!

kazbegi

Yeah I'm sure they wouldn't be at all happy about it.. I wasn't sure whether to actually ask the question in an open forum but I'm just enquiring about the hypothetical possibility.. for purely academic reasons..

Seriously though, I would of course run it with a hex passkey and without SSID broadcast on a hardware-address specific access list which should presumably be secure enough.. not that it would make ISS any happier but would they be able to tell that it's a base station and not a computer?

Newb

kazbegi wrote:

From diligent lurking I assertain that there are quite a few computer science / techinacally minded of you about (not that unexpected, this being the internet..) -

Is there any way to run an airport express from a wired socket in hall? I had thought that I would just give them the MAC address of my base station instead of my computer but that doesn't seem like it will be possible now. Thoughts, anyone?

Yes, it is possible to do this (technically) but I doubt you will be
allowed. Your wireless connection could be used by people other than
yourself and that might be enough for them to disallow it. Also, I
think the connections they use on the network are static and not
dynamic, which means that there are settings (DNS settings, IP
address...etc) that you may need to set but you may be unable to do so
with your Airport Express.

I have never used an Airport Express but I once used my laptop's
wireless connection and Ethernet port to bridge a different wireless
network and another Ethernet network for my brother, so, I can't see it
theoretically - from a technical point - being a problem.

kazbegi

Yeah I understand that they wouldn't like it and wouldn't allow it if you were to go and ask them.. still, if somone could confirm whether..

1. ..it is possible to use an airport express to create a wireless bridge to the college network and..

2. ..if ISS could tell that it isn't a computer..

.. then that would be awesomely fantastically sweet of them

Crash

actually the network DHCP's everything. though you can just hardset everything if you really want.

kazbegi

so that's a yes? I can set my express to receive its settings by DCHP and not distribute IP addresses, which should make it a fairly invisible bridge.. apologies for my lack of technicaly understandings

Crash

be iffy with mac address authentification. also if they found a wireless network running they'd, eh, kill you. anally.

kazbegi

Mmm.. understood. (actually not understood but you know, I think I'm ok with that..)

So in getting rid of the network clinics etc. they aren't getting rid of the mac addess authentication.. it will just be determined automatically and recorded when you run the self-setup thing?

Crash

presumably. removing mac authentification on the network would be a mess.

kazbegi

ok I have to ask.. what does the anal killing involve?

Newb

If the AE was connected to the network, the IS would see the MAC
address and the host name. They might be able to tell if your AE is
not a computer by the range the MAC address comes from and tell that
this address belongs to a factory that make AEs. I really doubt they
would do this since it would be a nightmare to keep a track of
addresses like that and I don't think they have access to that
information.

If your AE uses DHCP then it would only be a matter of plugging it into
the network connection on the wall and your connected. Other simple
settings - such as proxy and file storage can be done as normal on
your computer, as what is shown on the IS website.
Once you have made a successful shared connection to the AE and the AE
is connected to the college network then your online.
Crudely: If DHCP is used by the network all the settings needed for the
AE to connect properly will be given to it when the network detects
somebody trying to connect to it.

If all this works you will have a problem. It is possible that if your
wireless connection is detected by the college, the college could read
your AE's MAC address over the wireless. They could then ban that MAC
address from their network and bang, you are offline.

kazbegi

no forget it.. but any information about a precedent for this kind of thing (either running a wireless network from a college access point, or being caught attempting same and the punishment resulting) gratefully received.

kazbegi

Sorry posted at exactly the same time..

Thanks for that Newb, much appreciated.

Don't think there's much chance of the network being discovered in hall, with no ssid, with an obscure name and decent encryption.. oh and a closed access list.. can someone correct me if I'm wrong?

CmcC

Thank god for the do it yourself connecting. About time

Nietzschean

no such thing as no ssid, hidden yes, and it has no impact on the ability of anyone to find it. Encryption has no bearing on it. Closed access list has some advantages, but doesn't stop detection.

Also college being able to determine manufacturer from mac address is trivial, and they do have the info.

All that is questionable is how much effort they want to put in.

Also to best avoid problems, i.e. if your just using the wifi in your room if you lower the AP's power down it reduces the detection range.

Troglodyte

kazbegi wrote:

ok I have to ask.. what does the anal killing involve?

Now I wouldn't know much about ISS execution policies, but anal killing might not be out of the question. It has been known to happen in history, for instance Edward II was killed in 1327 by having a red hot poker thrust deep up his posterior. A nasty business altogether, and one best avoided. So don't run a wireless network.

cianclarke

Sounds like a much easier solution than network clinics!
How does the network actually work, the basics?
It's not like what I have at home, a conventional connection that goes straight to the outside internet is it?
It's also not like a network, in that I'm not just going through a router?
Does anything need to be done to configure software like MSN, FTP?
Finally, I take it they don't appreciate p2p / file sharing? Can they tell?
Danke

Pet

There WAS a DC++ hub up, until some dozy girl went to ISS and complained that it wasn't working for her. No seriously.

Bittorrent, irc and the like are banned, and not easily available unless you're pretty damn good with computers (well better than I am anyway, and I'm no technotard).

cianclarke

Pet wrote:

There WAS a DC++ hub up, until some dozy girl went to ISS and complained that it wasn't working for her. No seriously.

Bittorrent, irc and the like are banned, and not easily available unless you're pretty damn good with computers (well better than I am anyway, and I'm no technotard).

Bah there's always one. Thanks

swingking

I think it is stupid that in order to connect your computer to the network, you must have windows xp professional edition; I mean, what gives here. How can students afford the version of windows if they are charging mad amounts of money for this software.

xebec

It's pretty standard that XP Pro is necessary for networking, it's not just in TCD. The XP Home upgrade to XP Pro is available from some crowd in Cork for €95, IS Services will give you their details or someone on here should have them.

IS Services are very clear about the fact that Windows systems must run XP Pro, anyone buying a new Windows machine should take this into account when purchasing.

Barry Aldwell

swingking wrote:

I think it is stupid that in order to connect your computer to the network, you must have windows xp professional edition; I mean, what gives here. How can students afford the version of windows if they are charging mad amounts of money for this software.

Take the issue up with Microsoft, not IS Services.

Nietzschean

its to do with you the fact you can't join the trinity domain unless you have xp professional. Its just not in xp home. its an understandable requirement by iis imo.

(XP home isn't designed for corporate or educational networks, so you can't join active directory domain, this is the system where by IIS can force new patches out to machines and do av updates and such.)

Plus you can always downgrade to Windows 2000 if you're that annoyed. Or check out the Windows XP Home - Pro upgrade... which was here: http://isservices.tcd.ie/network/mscampus.php#students but the link appears to have dissappeared. Rats.

Just received an e-mail back from ISS, the link for the upgrade from XP Home to XP Pro is here: http://isservices.tcd.ie/software/mscampus.php

(and fair play to ISS for working late on Friday!)

xebec

Just checked their prices, €99 for the XP Pro upgrade - which isn't too bad - and €103 for Office 2003 which is one of the best prices I've seen

The_Radiator

An alternative to upgrading to Windows XP pro is to install and use linux.

Newb

I am using Linux this year.

The_Radiator

Me too! Well I was til it broke. Won't boot up now .

Newb

The_Radiator wrote:

Me too! Well I was til it broke. Won't boot up now .

I might know how to fix it. I have a lot of experience with Linux.

estilos

Can one of the old, wise type peoples please confirm that liniux is allowed (for connection etc.)? Because that would be fun!

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

sweet! thanks for posting OP. Have applied (wireless and specific point) and will see what happens!

Newb

http://www.tcd.ie/iss/network/docs/Connecting%20to%20network%202005.pdf#search=%22linux%20tcd.ie%20iss%22

From the link:
"Computers with the Linux operating system must have the following:
• PC - Pentium based Desktop or Laptop PC
• minimum of 128MB RAM. Minimum Hard Disk size of 4 GB
• network card and CD-ROM drive required."

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

xebec wrote:

Just checked their prices, €99 for the XP Pro upgrade - which isn't too bad - and €103 for Office 2003 which is one of the best prices I've seen

If you are a postgrad you get a free upgrade from an IS Services hosted-site.

Nietzschean

Linux is allowed on the tcd network, i've been using it on it for years now (3 or so anyway).

As for fixing that broken linux install, bring it into me some day kev if ye find me......

estilos

Thanks Off to heaven I go!

xebec

When someone has tried the new way of connecting can they let us know how it goes?

Newb

New way?

xebec

Newb wrote:

New way?

Yes, as described above, IS Services have apparently done away with the need for network clinics and have put a DIY service in place instead.

littlehedgehog

I've been trying to set it up for ages, and it's driving me crazy.
I'd to get all the windows updates for a start.
Windows update doesn't work for me (I have no idea why), so I had to download them all separately.
Now, I'm stuck on this stupid 40 second count down page. After the 40 seconds, I've tried everything i can think of - restarting, reinstalling mozilla, using IE.. but every time I open my browser, it does back to the stupid authentication page..
Grr.
Grr.
Grr.
Anyone help?!

Nietzschean

haven't used it yet, i'm guessing go into the helpdesk though tomorrow?(before rush starts...)

So is the new system supposed to be working as of right now? Where do I get a network cable (the cheapest place )?

Nietzschean

normally with your laptop other than that, peats, maplin and a bunch of other people will all have it, think its even in the su shop...

xebec

Apparently they're €5 in the SU shop, you'll get them slightly cheaper in the main computer shops - not sure if the price difference will be worth the walk though

ApeXaviour

pff.. wireless tbh

xebec

Wireless is handy for around college, wired is nice for residences.

Jim_No.6

Also: you can't do the whole registering thing from wireless.

There's a guy who used to sell netowork cable (to any length) here on Boards. Get a long one (for rooms etc.), a crossover one (for easy laptop-laptop connections) and a short one (for the library) and that's all you'll ever need.