Whey overvalued?

Jumpy

I am about to buy a load of supplements, got some good information about which ones I should get, but there is still two things I am unsure of.

I have been advised to stay away from soy protein (due to estrogen content) and not to bother with whey because its all hype.
I have been pointed in the direction of Egg and Milk protein.
Whats everyones thoughts on that?

Also what is a good fat burner supplement? and do they generally make you feel like you have consumed 20 cups of coffee?

peterk19

Whey protien is milk protien

Jumpy

Yeah thats what I thought too.
And to be honest, whey is cheaper by the pound than this stuff.

peterk19

basicly you have 3 types of Milk protien, Caisen, Whey and Whey isolate
Caisen being the lowest grade and whey isolate the higher with whey being somewhere between, but they all have there uses eg, whey/whey isolate is great for after a workout as its fast absorbing and your body is starved of it, where as Casien is great for before you go to sleep as its a lot slower absorbing

yomchi

Jumpy wrote:

I am about to buy a load of supplements, got some good information about which ones I should get, but there is still two things I am unsure of.

I have been advised to stay away from soy protein (due to estrogen content) and not to bother with whey because its all hype.
I have been pointed in the direction of Egg and Milk protein.
Whats everyones thoughts on that?

Also what is a good fat burner supplement? and do they generally make you feel like you have consumed 20 cups of coffee?

You've been given a bum steer on your advice!
Who ever told you to stay away from Soy is gonk, soy is an excellent source of protein, it does NOT contain oestrogen! Oestrogen is produced in the body, it can however promote it but in tiny amounts, soy has huge benifits for good health and well being. Whoever told you to avoid whey and then recommend milk protein is equally a gonk! Milk proteins are generally 90% casein and 10% whey from its production.
Whey can then be restructured to be whey isolate or whey concentrate - both have their weakness's and both have their values. Whey Isolate is supposed to be extremely fragile and looses alot of its natural structure during digestion while concentrate is a bit more robust - generally a protein containing both whey isolates and concentrate is a good option. Avoid whey isolate powder which contain digestive enzymes as the isolate is partly destroyed by them.
Casein is a more durable protein and takes longer for the body to digest hence why individuals take it before sleep.

Fat burners generally contain caffiene, you can however buy some that don't contain it. 20 cups of coffee would be an exageration! But if you have avoided caffiene in the past, expect the shakes for the first few days!

King of Kings

was the guy in fact Tony Quin or his minions??

why do I blame TQ again??
Cos Jon has us all brainwashed:D

actually no.
yesterday my bro was walking through stephen green and happened to glance at the TQ shop...(oh all they needed was a glance and they were on him)

anyway he told they he used whey (ON) and the guy launched into
1. how shi8t whey was
2. how my bro was being ripped off cos whey is so cheap
3. caesin is some much better than whey.

Anyway when the bro started arguing the guy got thick and arrogant and went up on his high horse.

But they he blew it co she said he took caesin 24/7 and the bro said he was a tad scrany...

anyway that my TQ bashing for the week.

Sangre

They are wheeey overpriced

abetarrush

Holland and Barret have some deals goin

The 30euro tubs are half price

because_I_can

good whey info

Cravez

TQ praise and worship caesin, i dont trust any advice any TQ minion says. I went in there one time just to see what they actually had and the guy came up and started talking to me about caesin and so on, i pretended to be dumb about the whole idea of proteins,whey,egg,caesin etc just to see what he would say. What he told me was " Caesin is a slow digesting protein which you get best results taken straight after a workout ". When i heard this i just said i wasnt interested and walked out and thinking to myself how much his advice was wrong, its obvious you DONT take caesin after a workout.

Jumpy

Thanks for your replies guys.

iregk

I have used the holland and barrat stuff for a while, made by US Nutrition I believe. Looking at the back at its ingredients it has pretty much what more expensive brands have so it looks a good deal. Anyone with a lot more experience than I have when it comes to protein care to comment?

Is the natures way stuff good, bad, indifferent?

BrianD3

I have used the Naturesway stuff for around 3 years now. I've stuck with this one because I love the taste of it. It is alright value too if you buy a few tubs every time they are on special offer.

As for benefits of whey - I'm a little cynical about its usefulness for beginning and recreational weight trainers. I myself take it "just in case" it does me some good. IMO many weight trainers fail to get the gains they're after not because of lack of supplements but becasue
a) They're not taking in enough calories in their diet
b) They're not getting enough sleep

yomchi

BrianD3 wrote:

I have used the Naturesway stuff for around 3 years now. I've stuck with this one because I love the taste of it. It is alright value too if you buy a few tubs every time they are on special offer.

As for benefits of whey - I'm a little cynical about its usefulness for beginning and recreational weight trainers. I myself take it "just in case" it does me some good. IMO many weight trainers fail to get the gains they're after not because of lack of supplements but becasue
a) They're not taking in enough calories in their diet
b) They're not getting enough sleep

Anyone care to post up the nutritional value of this protein, things to look out for are obviously protein content, they type of protein, the structure, the amount of carbs and fats, the type of sweetner and the amino acid profile.

Not to be pedantic but a weight trainer not making progress could be falling down on a number of aspects and not just calories or sleep

iregk

Well I have a tub here beside me so let me post up whats in it. I think thats what you were asking Jon.

Nutrition Per 100g:
Energy 1566kj
Protein 75.5
Carb 6.4 (sugars 3.2)
Fat 4.7 (saturates 3.2)
Fibre 0.45
Sodium 0.32

Grams of amino per 100g:
Alanine 4.2
Arginine 1.9
Aspartic Acid 9.2
Cysteine 1.8
Glutamic Acid 15.0
Glycine 1.5
Histidine 1.5
Isoleucine 5.1
Leucine 8.7
Lysine 7.4
Methionie 1.8
Phenylalanine 2.2
Proline 5.6
Serine 4.2
Threonine 5.9
Tryptophan 1.2
Tyrosine 2.2
Valine 4.8

BrianD3

Jon wrote:

Not to be pedantic but a weight trainer not making progress could be falling down on a number of aspects and not just calories or sleep

True, but I find that calories and sleep are two vital aspects that tend to be the last things people think about. Eg if someone is making poor gains and you suggest that they may not be eating enough or getting enough rest it is not what they want to hear. Instead they think the solution to their problems is a massive tub of ULTRA SUPER MAX MUSCLE PRO XXXX-PLODE or whatever

justsomebloke

BrianD3 wrote:

Instead they think the solution to their problems is a massive tub of ULTRA SUPER MAX MUSCLE PRO XXXX-PLODE

Interesting, where could someone get this ULTRA SUPER MAX MUSCLE PRO XXXX-PLODE if they where looking for it;)

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

J.S. Pill

Indeed...is 7 hours enough? (well, 6 and a half really, most of the time)

Also, am I wasting my time drinking a protien shake about an hour before bed? I'm told I should only really take 'em before and after workouts and that they more or less go through you any other time. I think the stuff I take at the moment is some manner of whey isolate.

At the moment I just chew on a bag of nuts for a while before I go to bed and I never thought i'd say this but I'm getting a bit sick of them

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

justsomebloke

what i think you are getting is that whey is a fast digesting protein so as such it will be out of your system in a couple of hours so it's that useful when you are going to bed and you mighn't eat for another 8-9 hours. this is taking it that you mixed it with water

However if your night shake is made with a milk base you will also be getting casein which is a slow digesting protein so will take a lot longer to go fully through your system so keeping your body fed longer while you are sleeping

yomchi

BrianD3 wrote:

True, but I find that calories and sleep are two vital aspects that tend to be the last things people think about. Eg if someone is making poor gains and you suggest that they may not be eating enough or getting enough rest it is not what they want to hear. Instead they think the solution to their problems is a massive tub of ULTRA SUPER MAX MUSCLE PRO XXXX-PLODE or whatever

The main and most important aspect too gaining muscle is of course lifting weight and lifting it correctly, other wise your just a well fed sleeping beauty! Told ye I was being pedantic

BTW we're selling that stuff half price at the min and its 5 X's not 4!

bustershark

iregk wrote:

Well I have a tub here beside me so let me post up whats in it. I think thats what you were asking Jon.

Nutrition Per 100g:
Energy 1566kj
Protein 75.5
Carb 6.4 (sugars 3.2)
Fat 4.7 (saturates 3.2)
Fibre 0.45
Sodium 0.32

Grams of amino per 100g:
Alanine 4.2
Arginine 1.9
Aspartic Acid 9.2
Cysteine 1.8
Glutamic Acid 15.0
Glycine 1.5
Histidine 1.5
Isoleucine 5.1
Leucine 8.7
Lysine 7.4
Methionie 1.8
Phenylalanine 2.2
Proline 5.6
Serine 4.2
Threonine 5.9
Tryptophan 1.2
Tyrosine 2.2
Valine 4.8

So is this stuff worth buying? I saw they were selling it for €17 for a 900g tub there recently.

iregk

Well Jon has a hell of a lot more knowledge in this department than I do so I think its best to ask him.

yomchi

bustershark wrote:

So is this stuff worth buying? I saw they were selling it for €17 for a 900g tub there recently.

Sorry I missed that post completely.

Its a middle of the road protein by the look of it, tiny bit low in protein and tiny bit high in carbs and fats - compared to a product like Pro-X.

Also the amino acid profile is about 5% lower than other quality products.

If its being sold really cheap one has to wonder why? Are there digestive enzymes added to it? if so it could be a really long form protein chain which are tough to digest and to break down.. check that out...

poobum

abetarrush wrote:

Holland and Barret have some deals goin

The 30euro tubs are half price

i sstocked up on this! its gud offer! and dont taste to bad!