want to become a doctor and need some advice...

DanOB

hey peeps!

right well im 15 and ive jst got back my junior Cert results which basically where 7 honors 2 passes and 1 fail, thats without studying at all... for the leaving cert im doing all higher level subjects as i want to become a doctor...
for the leaving cert i plan to take grinds in my six best subjects and go to the gaeltacht to improve my irish, also im gonna do a feckload of studying...

ive spoken to one certain doctor and he predicts that due to an increase in spaces that within the next few years points for medicine will significantly drop...

any feedback?

Vorsprung

DanOB wrote:

hey peeps!

right well im 15 and ive jst got back my junior Cert results which basically where 7 honors 2 passes and 1 fail, thats without studying at all... for the leaving cert im doing all higher level subjects as i want to become a doctor...
for the leaving cert i plan to take grinds in my six best subjects and go to the gaeltacht to improve my irish, also im gonna do a feckload of studying...

ive spoken to one certain doctor and he predicts that due to an increase in spaces that within the next few years points for medicine will significantly drop...

any feedback?

This is probably best in the Leavin Cert forum tbh!

First off well done in the JC, they're great results.

To try to get very high points, just work solidly during 5th and 6th year. Gaeltacht is definately useful for the Irish. But don't kill yourself, balance how you spend, keep aside time for exercise and friends.

On the points coming down, I don't know if that's true. They might come down by a bit, but the demand outstrips supply by something like 7 or 8 to 1.

The application system for med school in Ireland will probably have changed by the time you've hit 6th year, there's talk of introducing a system where those who get 450+ go forward to do an interview and appitude test (GAMSAT), so it won't be all points.

You might also consider some sort of work experience in a doctor's practice, or in a hospital, just so you know for sure it's what you want to do. A couple of hospitals in Dublin run programmes for 4th years like the Mater, you could try getting in touch with the education co-ordinators in your nearest University affiliated hospital.

DanOB

k, thanks for ur help m8

Jimoslimos

DanOB wrote:

hey peeps!

right well im 15 and ive jst got back my junior Cert results which basically where 7 honors 2 passes and 1 fail, thats without studying at all... for the leaving cert im doing all higher level subjects as i want to become a doctor...
for the leaving cert i plan to take grinds in my six best subjects and go to the gaeltacht to improve my irish, also im gonna do a feckload of studying...

ive spoken to one certain doctor and he predicts that due to an increase in spaces that within the next few years points for medicine will significantly drop...

any feedback?

Change your attitude for starters, boasting about getting a reasonably good JC without studying doesn't fill me with confidence regarding Leaving Cert. If you're seriously planning on becoming a doctor I would recommend picking subjects like maths, biology, chemistry, etc, and not neccessarily your 'best' subjects (its better in the long run). Going to the gaeltacht to improve your Irish is a great experience even if it is of no relevance to your future career choice.

Dan1989

Hi, Dan here.
My friend and I are in sixth year and we are both going for Medicine to become doctors.
There are a few ways to do it.
1) Get 570+ points in the leaving cert.
2) Do the Irish aptitude test, which may not be out when you are doing your leaving cert.
3) Apply to Britan, You must first do the UKCAT aptitude test, then you apply for the course, then you must go for an interview provided you passed the aptitude test, then you must get a minimum 3A's and 2B's in the leaving cert for the worst college.
4) Go to college and study a degree for 4 years in a science subject then transfer to medicine.

It is important to note that you must have Chemistry and one other science subject for most colleges.

My friend and I both have almost reached the 570+ points route and we have both applied for briton and we are both considering the four year course route.

Tough, yes, but if you have the determination you'll get there in the end:D and well done on you results you must be very smart.
Good luck

DanOB

Dan1989 wrote:

and well done on you results you must be very smart

Now i know ur takin the micky lol, my junior results were crap, couldve done much better if i studied!

also, is it not chemistry rather than biology i need for colleges?

Vorsprung

DanOB wrote:

Now i know ur takin the micky lol, my junior results were crap, couldve done much better if i studied!

also, is it not chemistry rather than biology i need for colleges?

Yea chemistry and physics are what people say are the best to do.

DrIndy

If you want to be a doctor, its best to explore it by seeing what the job is like. Its not all fun and glory, but long hours, very stressful at times when you need to make split second decisions and sleep deprivation is so common, you stop noticing it and only notice how awake you are when you are on holidays.

Its also a very long training path which is fiercely competitive lasting 5-6 years med school and then another 8-10 years as an NCHD.

I love it and wouldn't change, but know realistically what you are getting in for.

antoinolachtnai

I hate to be a killjoy, but you are way off the game as regards getting 570 points. You didn't say how many A1's you got among your honours. It is pretty difficult to get an A1. If you didn't apply yourself at all for the JC, why do you think you are suddenly going to reform?

Why are you depending on a doctor for advice about what way points are going to go? It sounds like wishful thinking. If you had a medical problem, would you ask your career guidance counsellor for a prescription?

Why do you want to be a doctor anyway? Do you know what's involved? Have you really thought about this?

DanOB

antoinolachtnai wrote:

Why are you depending on a doctor for advice about what way points are going to go? It sounds like wishful thinking. If you had a medical problem, would you ask your career guidance counsellor for a prescription?

Why do you want to be a doctor anyway? Do you know what's involved? Have you really thought about this?

yes ive thought long and hard about it, i asked my career guidance counsillor and the reply i got was "its too early to be thinking about that". So i decided to talk to someone else. Reasonable?

DanOB

bigjimthefirst wrote:

Yea chemistry and physics are what people say are the best to do.

should i not be doing biology as im hoping to become a doctor??? im thinking about taking on physics and biology for my leaving...

GuanYin

Ask yourself the question - "Why do I want to be a doctor". Don't answer with the crappy sentimental rubbish about helping people, healing, caring or interest in biology/disease - you can do any of these things perfectly well by becoming a nurse or carer of some form or even just helping out at the local old folks home on tuesdays.

When you come up with a real answer that you honestly stand behind (and you better be sure, because that is a question that will be asked of you alot inthe future) then start thinking about it.

As Indy says, it isn't glamourous, it isn't all fun and it isn't ER or scrubs.

Your best bet for study is Chemistry and Phsyics. LC biology is a joke (so is LC chemistry and biology compared to say - england, but biology is more so) and the level of biology you will learn is far superior to the LC course, so much so that LC biology priming isn't really important.

The same isn't true of physics, but more so it definitely isn't true of chemistry. It is a simple fact, you will struggle if you don't have good LC chemistry behind you - you will be behind in concept and theory within 2 weeks of college and be playing catch up for the next year or more.

Aside from anything else, have the right reasons for doing it.

Traumadoc

DrIndy wrote:

Its also a very long training path which is fiercely competitive lasting 5-6 years med school and then another 8-10 years as an NCHD.

more like 13-15 years as an NCHD many of them abroad and some unpaid! I too would not change but its very tough at times.

DrIndy

I get a tremendous buzz out of dealing with acute medicine and love the adrenaline rush when there's a critically ill patient who comes in and needs sorting out. You need to think quickly and act on that and be interested in every little nuance and clinical sign and symptom and cogitate on the differential diagnosis.

That attracts me as well as all the craic I have with my patients and helping them get better.

There are too many downsides though and anyone who wants to be a doctor needs to think hard about it before committing themselves to something they don't really know much about before starting work, at which stage they get sucked in and cannot get out again.

Faith

While we're here, how much of your college years do you spend studying biochemistry and things like that? I'm doing a biology degree now, and I want to study medicine when I'm finished. I'm just curious about how helpful this degree will be.

DanOB

psi wrote:

Ask yourself the question - "Why do I want to be a doctor". Don't answer with the crappy sentimental rubbish about helping people, healing, caring or interest in biology/disease - you can do any of these things perfectly well by becoming a nurse or carer of some form or even just helping out at the local old folks home on tuesdays.

When you come up with a real answer that you honestly stand behind (and you better be sure, because that is a question that will be asked of you alot inthe future) then start thinking about it.

Well im in St.John Ambulance and i have a natural flair for helping people, medical emergencies, etc...

I just LOVE the whole buisness of Medicine and First Aid, ive won CPR competitions twice and placed in them more times then i can count...

Thats why i want to be a doctor.

ApeXaviour

DanOB wrote:

Thats why i want to be a doctor.

If that's what you really want you're going to have to work your cajones off to get the points. Are you doing transition year? Eitherway as soon as you know your subjects I'd go out and buy the past exam papers right away. Make sure you have every last question done in all of them, multiple times before your real exam. From experience the best way to do well in exams questions is to do them over and over until you can do them magnificently in your sleep.

GuanYin

DanOB wrote:

Well im in St.John Ambulance and i have a natural flair for helping people, medical emergencies, etc...

I just LOVE the whole buisness of Medicine and First Aid, ive won CPR competitions twice and placed in them more times then i can count...

Thats why i want to be a doctor.

Ok, and I respect your reasons.

From a devil's advocate/interview point of view, one may ask, based on your answer here:

1. If you want to help people, why a medical degree over a nursing degree or better yet, why not become a paramedic? They both involve helping people and medical emergencies. Nurses probably have more interaction with patients.

2. What makes you think that paramedical work is anything like working in a hospital?

AnBealBocht

Sorry to put a damper on things, and readily admitting that this is from US vantage point, now, not then----early in my medical/doctor career:

< http://americanmedicineunhealthyatanycost.blogspot.com/2005/10/american-medicine-unhealthy-at-any.html >

DanOB

AnBealBocht wrote:

Sorry to put a damper on things, and readily admitting that this is from US vantage point, now, not then----early in my medical/doctor career:

< http://americanmedicineunhealthyatanycost.blogspot.com/2005/10/american-medicine-unhealthy-at-any.html >

interesting read i must say... still deadset on being a doctor tho...

DanOB

psi wrote:

Ok, and I respect your reasons.

From a devil's advocate/interview point of view, one may ask, based on your answer here:

1. If you want to help people, why a medical degree over a nursing degree or better yet, why not become a paramedic? They both involve helping people and medical emergencies. Nurses probably have more interaction with patients.

2. What makes you think that paramedical work is anything like working in a hospital?

because doctors have a stigma attached to them, one that i want to help change... the actual point when i reliased it was a doctor i want to be was when i first saw the RTE programme "junior doctors" thats what i want...

DanOB

ApeXaviour wrote:

If that's what you really want you're going to have to work your cajones off to get the points. Are you doing transition year? Eitherway as soon as you know your subjects I'd go out and buy the past exam papers right away. Make sure you have every last question done in all of them, multiple times before your real exam. From experience the best way to do well in exams questions is to do them over and over until you can do them magnificently in your sleep.

yes im in transition year...

good idea, ive moved up from the 2 oridinary classes i did for the JC to higher level ones this year...

Taking grinds for almost all of my subjects in 5th and 6th year...

Going to the gealtacht for the next 2 summers to help me wit my irish...

eth0_

DanOB wrote:

because doctors have a stigma attached to them, one that i want to help change... the actual point when i reliased it was a doctor i want to be was when i first saw the RTE programme "junior doctors" thats what i want...

Why would you want to live that HELLISH life that those poor junior doctors have? I have to say, that really started to put me off wanting to do medicine as a mature student. It's sickening how these people are treated, sh1t hours, sh1t money and the amount of responsibility they have at night when they have little to no consultant cover is downright dangerous.

How we can expect our hospital doctors to work in those sorts of conditions in a supposedly affluent country is beyond belief.

westhammer

Whatever you do, take on Chemistry. Its the most difficult to pick up in 1st year as many people have found out. Id drop Physics and stick with Biology as Physics is pretty pointless and will rarely be relevant

DanOB

eth0_ wrote:

Why would you want to live that HELLISH life that those poor junior doctors have? I have to say, that really started to put me off wanting to do medicine as a mature student. It's sickening how these people are treated, sh1t hours, sh1t money and the amount of responsibility they have at night when they have little to no consultant cover is downright dangerous.

How we can expect our hospital doctors to work in those sorts of conditions in a supposedly affluent country is beyond belief.

i know its crap, but ultimatly i want to do it, and i also want to be a politician, and sort out the crisis we have

Faith

DanOB wrote:

and i also want to be a politician, and sort out the crisis we have

Haha, I did biology because I wanted to find a cure for cancer. I soon learnt it's not that simple!

Jimoslimos

westhammer wrote:

Whatever you do, take on Chemistry. Its the most difficult to pick up in 1st year as many people have found out. Id drop Physics and stick with Biology as Physics is pretty pointless and will rarely be relevant

Oi! Physics ain't pointless! Especially if you end up specialising in radiography or nuclear medicine. Biology on the other hand, well I've a degree in it (+ chemistry) and I can safely say that not taking it in LC hasn't hindered me.

If you end up working for the NHS in England, economics / business studies might be worth a look since most doctors here spend more time balancing budgets than looking after patients

eth0_

DanOB wrote:

i know its crap, but ultimatly i want to do it, and i also want to be a politician, and sort out the crisis we have

So you want to work as a hospital doctor AND a politician simultaneously?
Please!

DanOB

not specifically hospital work but a doctor all the same, Cllr and Dr. Bill Tormey can do it

oh yeah btw, i got work experience in Temple Street Childrens Hospital working with the Head Porter

Hooly22

Old post I know.....


But you got work experience in temple street?? So did i.. last year though!

What did they have you doing!?

InFront

Faith wrote: »

While we're here, how much of your college years do you spend studying biochemistry and things like that? I'm doing a biology degree now, and I want to study medicine when I'm finished. I'm just curious about how helpful this degree will be.

We essentially studying biochemistry and physiology all the way through:). It would be a pretty good boost for the pre-clinical years though.
As for studying medicine, I don't necessarily adhere to the belief that you have to really really want to do it for the right reasons, you just have to really want to do it fullstop. I'm not sure that it has to be your 'vocation' either. Too many Doctors (and medical students for that matter) allow medicine to be the major or defining aspect of their lives and I'm not sure that it's a good thing. At the end of the day, it's just a job.

GuanYin

I dunno In Front. Having been both the trainee and trainer side of the coin, I've seen alot of people going into the job not realising the lifestyle they are subjecting themselves to.

It's just a job, but its a job that defines the person more than most.

The Irish medical training system needs an overhaul and it looks to be on the way. I have to say, I'm in the US at the moment and the doctors here are far better trained.

Vorsprung

psi wrote: »

I dunno In Front. Having been both the trainee and trainer side of the coin, I've seen alot of people going into the job not realising the lifestyle they are subjecting themselves to.

It's just a job, but its a job that defines the person more than most.

The Irish medical training system needs an overhaul and it looks to be on the way. I have to say, I'm in the US at the moment and the doctors here are far better trained.

The postgraduate training is certainly better. From what I've heard from Irish med students who have been over there on electives, Irish undergraduate training is better.

GuanYin

bigjimthefirst wrote: »

The postgraduate training is certainly better. From what I've heard from Irish med students who have been over there on electives, Irish undergraduate training is better.

No such thing as undergraduate medicine here.

Medicine is a postgraduate course in the US. I've worked teaching in both systems and there is no comparison. US is far better.

King John V

I'd imagine that the US model was the leader in the field up until a few years ago. Afterall applicants had a little more life experience with the graduate only entry and were hopefully more mature than alot of 17 year olds...hopefully!!!. Now the Irish undergrad and graduate route simply provide greater versatility. As for content, would they not be roughly the same?

Kwekubo

westhammer wrote: »

Whatever you do, take on Chemistry. Its the most difficult to pick up in 1st year as many people have found out. Id drop Physics and stick with Biology as Physics is pretty pointless and will rarely be relevant

+1. Physiology pretty much picks up where Leaving Cert biology ends, and I think biochemistry is much harder if you haven't had a teacher take you through the general concepts of chemistry for a couple of years beforehand.

moe_sizlak

DanOB wrote: »

because doctors have a stigma attached to them, one that i want to help change... the actual point when i reliased it was a doctor i want to be was when i first saw the RTE programme "junior doctors" thats what i want...

do you mean the stigma of being aloof and baschially not carring about the patients
personally and this is specific to irish doctors ( foreign doctors are totally different in this regard , completley ), ive found them to be stand offish , stuck up and worst of all , they dont listen to what the patient is telling them , a doctor from what ive seen , looks at charts or results of tests , what the patient tells them is irrelevant , i recently suffered an injury and apart from one doctor saying something quite different to another , i found they dismissed my complaints due to the fact that xrays and other tests were telling them there was no real problem
they need to be more personable and while i know medicine is the snobbiest of professions and the social standing that comes with being a doctor ( that being one of the main motivators for those who decide to follow a career in medicine )they could individually be a little more down to earth

tallaght01

moe_sizlak wrote: »

do you mean the stigma of being aloof and baschially not carring about the patients
personally and this is specific to irish doctors ( foreign doctors are totally different in this regard , completley ), ive found them to be stand offish , stuck up and worst of all , they dont listen to what the patient is telling them , a doctor from what ive seen , looks at charts or results of tests , what the patient tells them is irrelevant , i recently suffered an injury and apart from one doctor saying something quite different to another , i found they dismissed my complaints due to the fact that xrays and other tests were telling them there was no real problem
they need to be more personable and while i know medicine is the snobbiest of professions and the social standing that comes with being a doctor ( that being one of the main motivators for those who decide to follow a career in medicine )they could individually be a little more down to earth

And the award for nonsensical generalisation of the day goes to.......

DrIndy

tallaght01 wrote: »

And the award for nonsensical generalisation of the day goes to.......

True - one "bad" experience does not give you a slating of an entire profession composed of tens of thousands of individuals.

its just not fair.

GuanYin

King John V wrote: »

As for content, would they not be roughly the same?

Nope, well, apart from the fact that its the same physiology

BTW, if anything causes poor demeanours among doctors, it's the bloody work conditions.

I've been here since 6am and I might not leave before midnight and I'm supposed to be senior enough not to have to deal with this sorta crap

Dr Galen

any update on how this is going kid?

just a suggestion for you......get some more experience than hanging around with the head porter. Get yourself a job working as a care assistant in a hospital or even a nursing home. It'll sure get you used to the hard work and being a round sick people all day. A few Dr friends of mine have done it and say its stood by them immensely.

On a personal level too I actually wanted to train as a Doc as a mature student, starting working as a care assistant and decided to go down the nursing route instead

Chunky Monkey

That's really good advice. I'm applying for medicine (third time unfortunately) and working full time as a HCA. Your communication skills improve, as does your social skills and stamina, you spend a lot of time with the patients so when you become a doctor you will remember that time and you'll have a better understanding of your patients. Working in a nursing home is great and I think better than a hospital because you really get a chance to spend loads of time with the patients. They're also very dependent so you learn a lot about primary care which I think is important because as a doctor you'll be part of the healthcare team and you should have an idea of the nurses and carers perspective as they are part of that team too. It may tempt you into nursing like nurse Baz above. It almost did for me!

I might get deleted off the forum for posting this but here goes (it's non-profit by the way): http://www.medicineireland.tk

Chunky Monkey

InFront wrote: »

I'm not sure that it has to be your 'vocation' either. Too many Doctors (and medical students for that matter) allow medicine to be the major or defining aspect of their lives and I'm not sure that it's a good thing. At the end of the day, it's just a job.

But it isn't just a job and it is a vocation. What are ya on about! You have to dedicate yourself to lifelong learning, keeping up to date in a field that is ever changing. That aside, you'll also spend an enormous amount of hours actually working in the hospital or wherever it is you'll wind up. How on earth can it not be a defining aspect of your life??

InFront

I don't mind it being a defining feature of my life personally, I just wouldn't want it to be the defining feature about my life, or even one of the more prominant aspects of my life. It is actually just a job, and my point is that one has to have a personal life and a character and an identity outside of their work, and that this is something that many medical students and Doctors seem to have forgotten about.

Too often we hear "are you sure you're cut out for a career in medicine", or "are you doing it for the right reasons". Forget that! If you can cope with the workload, and you will do your job well, then go for it. You don't need to be Mother Teresa of Caclutta or have a degree in counselling to dish out drugs and plaster up legs and be pleasant to people... medicine isn't rocket science and it isn't one of those rare jobs - like politics or modelling - which is genuinely restricted to the able. Just like any other job, most people could get on pretty successfully in medicine imo

OP if you want to do it, put your head down and just do it.

2Scoops

InFront wrote: »

I don't mind it being a defining feature of my life personally, I just wouldn't want it to be the defining feature about my life, or even one of the more prominant aspects of my life. It is actually just a job, and my point is that one has to have a personal life and a character and an identity outside of their work, and that this is something that many medical students and Doctors seem to have forgotten about.

Too often we hear "are you sure you're cut out for a career in medicine", or "are you doing it for the right reasons". Forget that! If you can cope with the workload, and you will do your job well, then go for it. You don't need to be Mother Teresa of Caclutta or have a degree in counselling to dish out drugs and plaster up legs and be pleasant to people... medicine isn't rocket science and it isn't one of those rare jobs - like politics or modelling - which is genuinely restricted to the able. Just like any other job, most people could get on pretty successfully in medicine imo

OP if you want to do it, put your head down and just do it.

Absolutely agree... with the exception of the politics bit!

Chunky Monkey

I agree that your reasons for doing it shouldn't matter but I think that there are a lot of people who wouldn't be cut out for it. You work long hours, need to study hard (to be competent) and are dealing with people from all sorts of backgrounds every day. Some people don't have the stamina for the long hours, others can't concentrate long enough for the amount of study required and there are many who just don't like people. Of course medicine isn't rocket science, you basically learn a load of facts and have to know how to apply them. But the academic side isn't the only side to it. Honestly, do you really think most people could do well in it? I have to say I strongly disagree.

tallaght01

I agree that if you can handle the workload, you can get by in medicine as a doc.

But to do it well, you have to have other qualities.

You have to have compassion. You have to be able to handle stress. You've gotta be good at prioritising. You have to be non-judgmental (ie your junkie/prisoner/drunk patients are people too).

You've gotta have good manual dexterity. You can't be too introspective. You need to be able to handle it when you make a cockup.

Can you handle telling someone they're going to die, or that their baby is going to die/be handicapped etc.

There's a lot of different emotional and practical challenges that I've faced in medicine. Some I met head on, some I didn't cope with too well.

I've done nearly every job in the world, and medicine is the one which needs the strongest breadth of character, in my opinion.

Dr Galen

evrey job Tallaght?????

moe_sizlak

tallaght01 wrote: »

And the award for nonsensical generalisation of the day goes to.......

your arrogant dismissive tone is typical of the attitude i have been met with in dealing with many doctors

if you are not already one , then your vocation is truly calling


p.s
i have just discovered that had a consultant i had been seeing for several weeks refered me for a scan from the outset , i could have been spared weeks of constant pain
all he did was tell me that my x ray was fine
getting info or even suggestions out of theese people is like pulling teeth
no volluntary information , perhaps theres more mony keeping tight lipped

Traumadoc

If every patient was sent for a scan the amount of radiologically induced cancers would soar, already in the US 1-2% of cancers in the future will be due to overuse of CT scan.

tallaght01

moe_sizlak wrote: »

your arrogant dismissive tone is typical of the attitude i have been met with in dealing with many doctors

if you are not already one , then your vocation is truly calling


p.s
i have just discovered that had a consultant i had been seeing for several weeks refered me for a scan from the outset , i could have been spared weeks of constant pain
all he did was tell me that my x ray was fine
getting info or even suggestions out of theese people is like pulling teeth
no volluntary information , perhaps theres more mony keeping tight lipped

I stand by my assertion that it was a lame generalisation.;)